Jump to content

List of pointless talents in the Merc Trees


TyrellJonez

Recommended Posts

Ok we have a ton of complaints against mercenaries. lets help point out what doesn't work in the specialization trees.

 

Bodyguard: It all adds up fairly evenly. No complaints. I also am not primarily a healer so i can't call any out.

 

Arsenal:

 

Kolto Vents:

 

Its not in the power, but in the execution. 7% over 10 seconds? Not gunna save you in the least bit versus ANY other class. Even combined with Kolto Overload the duration is too long to benefit.

 

Suggestion:

 

Changing the duration to over 6 seconds instead of 10 to actually have a noticeable effect and increasing the heal from 7% to 10%.

 

Power Over-rides

 

Most useless talent ever. Not used for PvP or PvE with so many other better options even on tier 1 pyro and bodyguard trees. Seriously this is a level 6 talent?

 

Suggestions:

 

Look on the forums, tons of em. Anything is better than this.

 

Pyro:

 

Sweltering Heat:

 

Nerfed into the ground. Combustible gas cylinder has a 16% chance to be triggered (IF freaking talented). IF it actually triggers, it slows its target for 30% for 2 seconds which nobody notices while leaping and force speeding around. Either get rid of it, or fix it for mercenaries. Otherwise, its a waste of two points.

 

Infared Scanners:

 

Dunno bout everyone, but if any stealth comes within 10m of me i usually catch a glimpse of them anyway. When i drop Stealth Scan all it does is tell the other team where NOT to step, having very little function other than that. melee and ranged defense by 2%? There is no signifcant change. Its primary and secondary function are useless for PvP and PvE. Utterly useless.

 

Suggestions:

 

How about changing it entirely to a Pyro version of "Haunted Dreams" from the Inquistor madness tree? I.E: makes concussion missle stun the target for an additional 2 seconds if it is broken early by damage or by CC breaker. Or how about it increases movement speed by 30% when activating Kolto-Over-load for 3 seconds? Or both?

 

Degauss

 

Actually not that bad.

 

Suggestions:

 

why not make it better by simply making it so we can't be lept/charged to while energy shield is active as well. Defense against roots (which currently seem to be the new hip thing in pvp these days since Roots aren't on the resolve system)

 

So how bout some damn Mercenary love huh? Or atleast consideration

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have to disagree with power overrides it is extremely useful in heat management. and having it up more often is a huge benefit. it is only useful if you are over 40 heat however. but once you hit that hit thermal sensor override and your fusion missile and you are good to go. heat is back down and you can continue with your normal rotation
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A nice idea for the stealth scan would be that it discharges an EMP pulse 10 metres around you that roots stealthers for 2 secs and gets them out of stealth and it can be spammed in much the same way as a Juggernaut's Chilling Scream. That would give the bounty hunter a great anti-stealth role. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A nice idea for the stealth scan would be that it discharges an EMP pulse 10 metres around you that roots stealthers for 2 secs and gets them out of stealth and it can be spammed in much the same way as a Juggernaut's Chilling Scream. That would give the bounty hunter a great anti-stealth role. :)

 

That would be ridiculously overpowered versus stealth classes. Even as a Merc, not a chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pyro:

 

Sweltering Heat:

 

Nerfed into the ground. Combustible gas cylinder has a 16% chance to be triggered (IF freaking talented). IF it actually triggers, it slows its target for 30% for 2 seconds which nobody notices while leaping and force speeding around. Either get rid of it, or fix it for mercenaries. Otherwise, its a waste of two points.

 

Infared Scanners:

 

Dunno bout everyone, but if any stealth comes within 10m of me i usually catch a glimpse of them anyway. When i drop Stealth Scan all it does is tell the other team where NOT to step, having very little function other than that. melee and ranged defense by 2%? There is no signifcant change. Its primary and secondary function are useless for PvP and PvE. Utterly useless.

 

Suggestions:

 

How about changing it entirely to a Pyro version of "Haunted Dreams" from the Inquistor madness tree? I.E: makes concussion missle stun the target for an additional 2 seconds if it is broken early by damage or by CC breaker. Or how about it increases movement speed by 30% when activating Kolto-Over-load for 3 seconds? Or both?

 

Degauss

 

Actually not that bad.

 

Suggestions:

 

why not make it better by simply making it so we can't be lept/charged to while energy shield is active as well. Defense against roots (which currently seem to be the new hip thing in pvp these days since Roots aren't on the resolve system)

 

Personally I see Sweltering Heat work quite well, perhaps making it so the target can't sprint or jump when it's on them would help for PvP, but in PvE I find it very very very effective. In PvE a pyro's key to survival is staying mobile and timing there CC with their casted attacks, which isn't usually a practical option in mass PvP anyway. My suggestion is you spend your two points somewhere else if you're a PVPer and you don't think it's effective, I'm sure there's something you could find more helpful to you. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it. But like I said I don't see why a debuff preventing movement enhancements for 2 seconds would be game breaking for the glowbat crowd so I support it.

 

I would think adding a 2 second damage debuff to targes popped with Infrared Scanners might make it more attractive, pretty much everyone I know just doesn't use it for the same reasons you already pointed out. Your chances of popping someone out of stealth <10 meters and having the reaction time to do anything helpful for yourself is pretty much none anyway. But again, that's two points you can throw into something else.

 

I don't like your suggestion for Degauss because of Pyro mechanics. Fully talented a pyro can have shields up over half the time in a heavy fight due to the cooldown reduction when taking damage. That's just too much defense against what is a major skill for many profs. I also think adding the previously discussed no movement enhancements debuff on Sweltering Heat would help greatly with the people constantly jumping onto your face issues.

 

I don't believe making one prof OP just to spite another.

 

I also believe some talents are primarily intended to enhance PvP while others are intended to enhance PvE. Pick and choose what works best for how you play and go with that, for example I pretty much only PvE now, so I have no need for infrared scanners and thusly didn't waste my points on it.

Edited by bahdasz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When it comes to Pyro the question is, would they stop pretending it's a shared tree with Powertech so Mercs can get meaningful changes without buffing the best burst killing class in the game.

 

The two don't remotely function the same way.

 

For a start Mercs need a cheaper attack than IR to ignite a target. Rapid Shots has a 70% chance to proc CGC which means a bit less than 1/3 of the time you wasted 1GCD on failing to ignite a target which is essential for buffing damage and to allow Railshot.

 

Something that costs the same as Flame Burst and applies CGC.

 

Preferably an instant attack.

 

Or hell, just reducing the cost of IR for mercs.

Edited by Gyronamics
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I see Sweltering Heat work quite well, perhaps making it so the target can't sprint or jump when it's on them would help for PvP, but in PvE I find it very very very effective. In PvE a pyro's key to survival is staying mobile and timing there CC with their casted attacks, which isn't usually a practical option in mass PvP anyway. My suggestion is you spend your two points somewhere else if you're a PVPer and you don't think it's effective, I'm sure there's something you could find more helpful to you. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it. But like I said I don't see why a debuff preventing movement enhancements for 2 seconds would be game breaking for the glowbat crowd so I support it.

 

I would think adding a 2 second damage debuff to targes popped with Infrared Scanners might make it more attractive, pretty much everyone I know just doesn't use it for the same reasons you already pointed out. Your chances of popping someone out of stealth <10 meters and having the reaction time to do anything helpful for yourself is pretty much none anyway. But again, that's two points you can throw into something else.

 

I don't like your suggestion for Degauss because of Pyro mechanics. Fully talented a pyro can have shields up over half the time in a heavy fight due to the cooldown reduction when taking damage. That's just too much defense against what is a major skill for many profs. I also think adding the previously discussed no movement enhancements debuff on Sweltering Heat would help greatly with the people constantly jumping onto your face issues.

 

I don't believe making one prof OP just to spite another.

 

I also believe some talents are primarily intended to enhance PvP while others are intended to enhance PvE. Pick and choose what works best for how you play and go with that, for example I pretty much only PvE now, so I have no need for infrared scanners and thusly didn't waste my points on it.

 

Sweltering heat isn't a bad concept, its just a bad execution. 30% just isn't enough. If it was 70% then it'd actually be noticeable. Or 30% for 6 seconds. Currently for us pvpers (which i thought it was primarily for) it just sucks.

 

I honestly don't think pyro needs a damage buff, so i'm meh on that point.

 

Understand that aside from Electro Dart, Pyro has no utility vs all other classes. Sweltering heat won't slow anything down enuff for it to not still hit you. the rage spec for the majority of juggs and marauders mean our knockback is instantly countered and effecively useless. Vanguards/PTs have grapple as does shadow/assassin to also close distance. My point is, every class has an "answer" to our knockback, while Pyro has little to nothing to respond to any other AC's abilities aside from damage.

 

Degauss making it so they can't be lept too means *gasp* they won't focus you first for a change! They might actualy pick another target they can leap to.

 

You primarily pve and i respect that. But i pvp ALOT and i have grown tired of every melee class within leaping/grabbing range auto-switch targets to me even over a healer simply because when focused, we have really nothing to deter their advance. I would like to stop being the easist class to kill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have to disagree with power overrides it is extremely useful in heat management. and having it up more often is a huge benefit. it is only useful if you are over 40 heat however. but once you hit that hit thermal sensor override and your fusion missile and you are good to go. heat is back down and you can continue with your normal rotation

 

Not to be rude, but if your having heat problems as arsenal for pvp or pve, your doing it wrong. Its very heat efficient as is and Gyroscopic alignment jets its typically superior for pvp and improved vents for pve as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That would be ridiculously overpowered versus stealth classes. Even as a Merc, not a chance.

 

No. Powertechs have a talent in the Shieldtech (tank) tree that roots stealthers exposed by Stealth Scan.

 

Granted, it's not spammable as the OP suggests.

Edited by TheronFett
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No. Powertechs have a talent in the Shieldtech (tank) tree that roots stealthers exposed by Stealth Scan.

 

Granted, it's not spammable as the OP suggests.

 

Well. My reaction was largely to it being spammable.

 

And, it is possible to have heat problems in endgame raids as Arsenal. It's happened to me on occasion. Depends on luck, procs, timing of mechanics, etc. But when things go right you shouldn't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I don't like your suggestion for Degauss because of Pyro mechanics. Fully talented a pyro can have shields up over half the time in a heavy fight due to the cooldown reduction when taking damage. That's just too much defense against what is a major skill for many profs.

 

You mean, the same way a Sniper can be in cover for half the fight and be immune to pulls and charges ? Say it isn't so !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have to disagree with power overrides it is extremely useful in heat management. and having it up more often is a huge benefit. it is only useful if you are over 40 heat however. but once you hit that hit thermal sensor override and your fusion missile and you are good to go. heat is back down and you can continue with your normal rotation

I think you are talking about Power Surge which we all love. The OP is talking about a skill that reduces cooldown on Concussion Missile and Thermal Override or something. Pretty worthless.

I actually use Flamethrower in PvP matches. Go figure....

 

PowerShot.....now THAT is a worthless ability. Haven't used that in a PvP match in over a week.

Flamethrower is definitely worthless. Sometimes I use it for fun (like once a month) or just to make people say W-T-F?

 

But I completely disagree on Power Shots. A Merc Pyro falls back on Power Shots when their full rotation is on cooldown and they are not being Focused and can stand still.

 

Granted, this is semi-rare but when you are well geared, everything hits hard. Including this 1.5s spammable attack. Once you get to the point where you need to fire Power Shots, your only other option is Rapid Shots which will do like half the damage.

Edited by DarthBloodloss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I completely disagree on Power Shots. A Merc Pyro falls back on Power Shots when their full rotation is on cooldown and they are not being Focused and can stand still.

 

Granted, this is semi-rare but when you are well geared, everything hits hard. Including this 1.5s spammable attack. Once you get to the point where you need to fire Power Shots, your only other option is Rapid Shots which will do like half the damage.

 

Rapid Shots do more damage than Power Shot. The belief that PS is your filler attack is a fallacy I see from a lot of Merc dps. This comes from the fact that most Merc dps are PvE oriented. There PS is your filler. But not in PvP. Unlike in PvE, you need to account for the reality that only about 40-60% of your PS attempts will complete to do advantageous damage to your target. The rest of the time, the target moves out of range/LoS, is killed by someone else, is cc'ed by someone else, you get interrupted, etc. Using PS in PvP is an incredibly inefficient heat/actual damage strategy. In contrast using RapidShot towards the front end of your rotation is incredibly efficient from a heal/damage ratio perspective because of CGC. If you are properly using RapidShot once every 6 seconds, it actually becomes your second most powerful attack after TD - even more powerful than RailShot (I am not counting FM since that isn't generally part of a rotation sequence).

 

I've said this before, but of all the matches where I have scored 700+k or 800+k, I don't think I have ever used PowerShot. Not once. Way too busy in those kinds of matches to spend 1.5 sec on something that half the time fails to even fire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rapid Shots do more damage than Power Shot. The belief that PS is your filler attack is a fallacy I see from a lot of Merc dps. This comes from the fact that most Merc dps are PvE oriented. There PS is your filler. But not in PvP. Unlike in PvE, you need to account for the reality that only about 40-60% of your PS attempts will complete to do advantageous damage to your target. The rest of the time, the target moves out of range/LoS, is killed by someone else, is cc'ed by someone else, you get interrupted, etc. Using PS in PvP is an incredibly inefficient heat/actual damage strategy. In contrast using RapidShot towards the front end of your rotation is incredibly efficient from a heal/damage ratio perspective because of CGC. If you are properly using RapidShot once every 6 seconds, it actually becomes your second most powerful attack after TD - even more powerful than RailShot (I am not counting FM since that isn't generally part of a rotation sequence).

 

I've said this before, but of all the matches where I have scored 700+k or 800+k, I don't think I have ever used PowerShot. Not once. Way too busy in those kinds of matches to spend 1.5 sec on something that half the time fails to even fire.

 

Its also a fallacy to assume everyone screws up on Power Shots 40-60% of the time. I find my own Power Shots tear into people. If all your other attacks are on cooldown, you can't really help burst anyone down with Rapid Shots. But if the situation is right, you can chain cast Power Shots for a huge amount of damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its also a fallacy to assume everyone screws up on Power Shots 40-60% of the time.

 

The only time you will regularly get PowerShot to land is if the target is a) a bad b) engaged by 3+ other teammates and can't do anything about your grotesque cast motion or c) is stunned and can't do anything about your grotesque cast motion.

 

In the case of a), you don't need PowerShot to defeat this enemy. Would rather use RapidShots frankly and get to zero heat for the next enemy. In the case of b) see a). Which leaves c) as the only rational time to use PowerShot. And c) applies only if Unload is on CD. Only if IM hasn't been applied. Only if CGC was applied in the last 2 GCDs. Only if you aren't at close range where you can use Rocket Punch. Only if you don't have the heat availability to use Fusion Missile. And only if no other enemies are nearby and able to interrupt you. This cumulatively happens....not too often.

 

The big picture consideration here is that there simply isn't a need to use PS because your rotation is full without it. Let's go over some numbers:

 

IM - used once per 18 seconds, or occupies 1.5 out of every 18 seconds, or 8.33% of your time (actually an underestimate given enemy death and cleanse rates)

TD - once per 15 seconds or 10% of your time.

RapidShots - once per 6 seconds or 25% of your time.

RailShot - approx once every 9 seconds or 16.66% of your time

Unload - 3 out of every 15 seconds, or 20% of your time

ExplosiveDart - once per 15 seconds or 10% of your time

RocketPunch - once every 9 seconds or 16.66% of your time

 

No rational person would choose to use PowerShot over any of those listed ablities. And those arleady add up to over 100%. Now add in the amount of time you are stunned, relocating, applying stuns, using Jet Boost, FM, etc and it should be clear that any use of PowerShot is displacing a far better use of your abilities. PowerShot - if you are using it in PvP, you are doing it wrong.

Edited by Macroeconomics
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't the point of using Power Shot to proc your Rail Shot? How is that a waste if you get that many more Rail Shots?

 

The question is how many more Rail Shots do you actually get and what are they worth? I think you will be surprised by the answer....

 

First of all, there is an extremely narrow window of opportunity to use PowerShot effectively. You shouldn't just use it IF you see a stationary enemy who isn't paying attention to you. Since the main benefit of PowerShot is the possibility of a RailShot proc, you generally won't use PowerShot for a period of 6 seconds after using Unload. And then correspondingly it is almost pointless to use PowerShot if you used Unload 12 or more seconds ago, since your RailShot will be off CD anyway in two GCDs - which is less time on average than it would be to proc RailShot via PowerShot. So at best in a rotation sequence of 18-20 seconds, there might be a window of 6 seconds where PowerShot, even if it connects, makes sense to use. Right from the start the very rare circumstances when you can use Powershot just became even more rare.

 

And let's look at what happens if you do choose to use PowerShot. It takes an average of 2.22 casts of PowerShot in order to proc RailShot. Then you take your RailShot. Those 3.22 additional actions must displace 3.22 other actions in your rotation, which as shown above is already full. So you are not getting a "free" RailShot. Instead you are getting an additional RailShot at the cost of displacing an ability like ExplosiveDart or RocketPunch. And there is the additional cost of displacing 2.22 other actions for PowerShots that as noted above will fail to connect at a disturbingly regular pace. If there is even a 10% chance per PowerShot that it will not connect, the venture (using PS to proc RS) will generate a net negative impact on your damage output.

 

And that is the kicker. IF you spot a enemy who won't interrupt you, IF that target won't break LoS, IF that target won't get killed shortly or cc'ed shortly, IF you spy that target in that key 6 second window in your 18-20 second rotation sequence, IF you can afford to self root yourself and IF there is only a 5% chance another enemy will interrupt your 2-3 consecutive PowerShot casts, then and only then will you approximately break even on damage done. Doh. There's a reason why in all of my 700k and 800k damage matches, I've used PowerShot a total of.....ZERO times.

 

So Muzzle Fluting? Worthless for a Merc Pyro. Would rather have a point in Custom Enviro Suit. Which I do.

Edited by Macroeconomics
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...