MIght only take 5 mins to kill one boss now add that to having 8 alts, then its alot of time wasted

 

not everyone does it on every character but i do see your point

when i got my vanguard to 50 i had near enoguh full columi from running fps in 2 days then i had 4 peices of bh gear in 4 days having done all dailies all rad weekly and some capain gear from hm ec. in less in 2 weeks i had 3 dread guard peices. im just saying that u gear up quicker running fps and ops that skiping them and getting hands on mods

 

 

i am saying 4 weeks considering its your first level 50, off course you can do it much faster with a few level 50 toons.

slight problem you can gear up quicker than 4 weeks doing fps everyday. or if u have guild crafters that can craft 61/63 mods and such u can jsut use your bh comms to get campaign armours for set bonuses

 

Not everyone has a guild that can provide good mods and gear OR the credits to buy from the GTN so that discussion belongs in another thread ( perhaps the crew skill forum )

If you can skip bosses you should, if you know you need something from that boss then say that to your group if they are skipping it and they will naturally kill it, if not, just pull and they have to kill it

 

That's it!

 

I don't understanding all the whining and crying over this. Just do as above and case closed.

 

It is not as simple as that, if it were things would be fine. What this 26 pages, 253 posts and 14,487 views thread discuss is the phenomenon of bosskilling in SWTOR. RikHar, I suggest you read through some of it before you dismiss it as whining and crying.

 

The only way to make things better is to discuss in a constructive way and provide feedback to Bioware. Time will tell if they care, even if they do not change their current FPs they might use this feedback for future creations.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Icestar

First of all it's much easier to get gear in operations than flashpoints. I have witnessed it first hand when I first leveled to 50. Let's not forget that SM operations are also very forgiving and very easy to learn. But just to be safe anyone can check some websites to get basic idea of what each boss is about. Someone in full Tionese can easily complete it, especialy in pug circumstances where you will also have a few geared and experienced people going as well. I disagree with your opinion on this Icestar. But even so if the flashpoint bosses have a direct upgrade for a Tionese geared people, I don't mind killing them -- But I will always reserme my right to refuse killing them too.

 

I do disagree that having forced to kill every boss by mechanics in a flashpoint would suddenly make a lot of people stop doing flashpoints, it would remove some people but I don't think it would be too much. With the potential to get 35 BH comms a week - not to mention the FP weeklies, flashpoint will continue to be done by geared people, just lesser than it used to before. Slowly people who are done with BiS'ing their gear (like me) stop doing HM fp's altogether. I am full DG now I haven't been going to any hard modes for 2 weeks now.

First of all it's much easier to get gear in operations than flashpoints. I have witnessed it first hand when I first leveled to 50. Let's not forget that SM operations are also very forgiving and very easy to learn. But just to be safe anyone can check some websites to get basic idea of what each boss is about. Someone in full Tionese can easily complete it, especialy in pug circumstances where you will also have a few geared and experienced people going as well. I disagree with your opinion on this Icestar. But even so if the flashpoint bosses have a direct upgrade for a Tionese geared people, I don't mind killing them -- But I will always reserme my right to refuse killing them too.

 

This thread is about HM flashpoints, that is why I don´t go into detail discussing how easy or not it is to get gear in operations. Feel free to start a thread of your own how everyone should skip HMs and go directly to operations since it is so much better according to you.

 

I do disagree that having forced to kill every boss by mechanics in a flashpoint would suddenly make a lot of people stop doing flashpoints, it would remove some people but I don't think it would be too much. With the potential to get 35 BH comms a week - not to mention the FP weeklies, flashpoint will continue to be done by geared people, just lesser than it used to before. Slowly people who are done with BiS'ing their gear (like me) stop doing HM fp's altogether. I am full DG now I haven't been going to any hard modes for 2 weeks now.

 

This thread is NOT about killing every boss in a flashpoint it is about bosskipping of the mobs players need to kill for loot. Even in Taral V there is a final boss that players skip eventhough he drops columni and players needs to beg the team for a bosskill.

 

Please leave operations out of this thread since it is off-topic

Edited December 26, 2012 by Icestar

This thread is about HM flashpoints, that is why I don´t go into detail discussing how easy or not it is to get gear in operations. Feel free to start a thread of your own how everyone should skip HMs and go directly to operations since it is so much better according to you.

 

 

 

This thread is NOT about killing every boss in a flashpoint it is about bosskipping of the mobs players need to kill for loot. Even in Taral V there is a final boss that players skip eventhough he drops columni and players needs to beg the team for a bosskill.

 

Please leave operations out of this thread since it is off-topic

 

Quite ironic this is coming from you, I responded to your opinion one page ago about operations loot. I DID NOT bring up that topic. And this topic is not about killing every boss in a flashpoint? Ha. hahahahahahahhahahaha. You have been arguing FOR this for many pages now, your starting to become completely ridiculous.

Quite ironic this is coming from you, I responded to your opinion one page ago about operations loot. I DID NOT bring up that topic. And this topic is not about killing every boss in a flashpoint? Ha. hahahahahahahhahahaha. You have been arguing FOR this for many pages now, your starting to become completely ridiculous.

 

Sorry, my bad your username is to close to Ergecrs that I DID have this discussion with.

 

A bit confusing trying to remember what all debaters want and what they are trying to say

 

By the way, I have not argued that all bosses should be killed only the ones the players need to kill. If a system is needed for that be my guest but there should not be a gamebreaking ingame discussion around it.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Icestar

There has always been some kind of mobskipping in either small or large scale in flashpoints but the latest trend is simply wrong.

 

It seems that teams doing flashpoints skip some of the bosses and have no respect for the ones that are signing up to get better gear.

 

Please respect the players that join flashpoints with groupfinder to gear up, it is enough to wait for ages for them to pop.

 

Alternatively Bioware could make the flashpoint not complete unless all bosses are dead (the way it should be)Thoughts?

 

Is it fair to ignore players in the team that needs gear and steamroll through the flashpoint not listening at all?

 

Just incase you forgot my friend. You have clearly stated that you think Bioware should make it where you can not skip any of the bosses. I changed the color red underlined it Italicized and bolded it to refresh your memory of your opening statement.

Sorry, my bad your username is to close to Ergecrs that I DID have this discussion with.

 

A bit confusing trying to remember what all debaters want and what they are trying to say

 

By the way, I have not argued that all bosses should be killed only the ones the players need to kill. If a system is needed for that be my guest but there should not be a gamebreaking ingame discussion around it.

 

You have in your op as I posted above this. The people that skip 90% have no problem helping those that want to kill a boss. What WE are arguing about its not to take away the ability to skip if we are RUNNING with Like Minded People.

Thanks Ergercs, if I am saying something it is for a reason.

Just incase you forgot my friend. You have clearly stated that you think Bioware should make it where you can not skip any of the bosses. I changed the color red underlined it Italicized and bolded it to refresh your memory of your opening statement.

 

I can quote myself too and tell you what I mean

Alternatively Bioware could make the flashpoint not complete unless all bosses are dead (the way it should be)

 

First of all this post was written before Bioware began with the PVE welfare program handing out free loot that some even consider viable for operations. Bosskills in HMs are not that important anymore but I still fight for the right for the player to have the possibility to kill any boss without some "hardcore fastrunner commfarmer" telling them not to.

 

Second, I wrote that they COULD make this as a ALTERNATIVE meaning that it is not my main point of my statement.

 

Lets get back on topic or let this thread drop to the floor. I know Bioware has read it and hopefully lots of good feedback from different players.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Icestar

I can quite myself too and tell you what I mean

 

First of all this post was written before Bioware began with the PVE welfare program handing out free loot that some even consider viable for operations. Bosskills in HMs are not that important anymore but I still fight for the right for the player to have the possibility to kill any boss without some "hardcore fastrunner commfarmer" telling them not to.

 

Second, I wrote that they COULD make this as a ALTERNATIVE meaning that it is not my main point of my statement.

 

Lets get back on topic regarding my original statement, or let this thread drop to the floor. I know Bioware has read it and hopefully lots of good feedback from different players.

 

I will continue to fight for the right to skip items that dont need to be done. In order to maximize the play time I have. And it has been stated by the DEVS Tionesse is what SM EV is designed to be ran in.

I will continue to fight for the right to skip items that dont need to be done. In order to maximize the play time I have. And it has been stated by the DEVS Tionesse is what SM EV is designed to be ran in.

 

Then lets hope that Bioware stops creating flawed instances where problems like this occur.

 

Players want to enjoy the content they are experiencing, not start fights over it.

Then lets hope that Bioware stops creating flawed instances where problems like this occur.

 

Players want to enjoy the content they are experiencing, not start fights over it.

 

The problem is, I dont see the instance as flawed you do. I find it refreshing that we can get the rewards with out a massive long drawn out instance. In your version if they were to fix it. They would have to fix it so you could not skip the trash mobs aswell. That would be the only fair "fix" . IMO

The problem is, I dont see the instance as flawed you do. I find it refreshing that we can get the rewards with out a massive long drawn out instance. In your version if they were to fix it. They would have to fix it so you could not skip the trash mobs aswell. That would be the only fair "fix" . IMO

 

My version of a fix has nothing to do with trash mobs, I leave that up to the gamedesigners to make out what is fair and what is not.

 

In all other MMOs I have played (since Anarchy Online 2001) we used to have a good time while doing instances, we laughed and chatted about all kinds of things.

 

In ToR, it is all about starting at A and ending at B avoiding everything possible and every boss imaginable.

 

If Bioware could find some kind of balance in the future where the main focus is about having fun and not grind comms the fastest way possible I am sure they would create a better game. To create that they would have to make each flashpoint into a story where every part leads up to a miniboss and finally a big boss to kill. That creates teamwork and lots of fun, not trying to evade every mob and boss imaginable like it is now.

 

Kaon under siege is a very, very good step in the right direction

Edited December 26, 2012 by Icestar

I will continue to fight for the right to skip items that dont need to be done. In order to maximize the play time I have. And it has been stated by the DEVS Tionesse is what SM EV is designed to be ran in.

 

Lets just hope BW will bring the magical "I WIN"-button into the game soon so you busy players can push it to get to the endboss right from the beginning and maybe even beat it by pushing that button so you don't need to "waste your precious time" with the game and can get the daily comms as easily as possible.

 

Maybe BW will even create own Group Finder section for you busy people so you can go there and let us others to enjoy and play the game as it was planned to be played.

Lets just hope BW will bring the magical "I WIN"-button into the game soon so you busy players can push it to get to the endboss right from the beginning and maybe even beat it by pushing that button so you don't need to "waste your precious time" with the game and can get the daily comms as easily as possible.

 

Maybe BW will even create own Group Finder section for you busy people so you can go there and let us others to enjoy and play the game as it was planned to be played.

 

Sorry if in anyway my having a job which causes me to have a smaller amout of play time offended you. In the mean time what time I do have I would rather spend working on ops fights and learning mechanics better. You right they should make a group finder que for those of us that are overgeared for the fights so we can group with people like ourselves that just want to finish quick and all the undergeared players can play together. That sounds like a great plan.

My version of a fix has nothing to do with trash mobs, I leave that up to the gamedesigners to make out what is fair and what is not.

 

They did and you created this thread about it. Probably because someone in a group your in didnt have the time to kill bosses so you came to the fourms to state it all needed changed.

 

In all other MMOs I have played (since Anarchy Online 2001) we used to have a good time while doing instances, we laughed and chatted about all kinds of things.

 

I have a great time doing Ops with my guild. Do I find running with random pugs fun, most of the time no because well its random pugs.

 

In ToR, it is all about starting at A and ending at B avoiding everything possible and every boss imaginable.

 

If Bioware could find some kind of balance in the future where the main focus is about having fun and not grind comms the fastest way possible I am sure they would create a better game. To create that they would have to make each flashpoint into a story where every part leads up to a miniboss and finally a big boss to kill. That creates teamwork and lots of fun, not trying to evade every mob and boss imaginable like it is now.

 

They did this with the very first FP and pretty much every one hates it after they have ran it once because there are way to many cut scenes in it and there are other things in the game people would be rather doing.

 

Kaon under siege is a very, very good step in the right direction

 

People absolutly hate this Flashpoint or did you not see the post a few below this one stating how they leave it.

I can quote myself too and tell you what I mean

 

First of all this post was written before Bioware began with the PVE welfare program handing out free loot that some even consider viable for operations. Bosskills in HMs are not that important anymore but I still fight for the right for the player to have the possibility to kill any boss without some "hardcore fastrunner commfarmer" telling them not to.

 

Second, I wrote that they COULD make this as a ALTERNATIVE meaning that it is not my main point of my statement.

 

Lets get back on topic or let this thread drop to the floor. I know Bioware has read it and hopefully lots of good feedback from different players.

 

So what? even if it is an alternative, does that make it immune to criticsm?

Please dont use darkred colour and write in the middle of quotes!

 

They did and you created this thread about it. Probably because someone in a group your in didnt have the time to kill bosses so you came to the fourms to state it all needed changed.

 

Hold your horses'! You assume that something happened to me so I had to start a entire thread about it. I get enough attention RL so there is no need for more here. I write constructive threads with a major subject with a few months apart. My thread about 50 PvP, no skill only gear? turned out to be a great feedback thread for Bioware and with this recent patch, exactly the feedback I and many others pointed out were implemented. It was a tough battle though, since the geared level 50s fought hard for their gear, like many do in in this thread.

 

I have a great time doing Ops with my guild. Do I find running with random pugs fun, most of the time no because well its random pugs.

 

I am glad that you have fun, I was speaking about PUGs where the chat usually has two lines : "Hello, fast run please" and "Thanx"

 

They did this with the very first FP and pretty much every one hates it after they have ran it once because there are way to many cut scenes in it and there are other things in the game people would be rather doing.

 

There should be a option to skip cut scenes I agree with you but only if it is a option that can be selected at groupfinder and not during the actual run. The players should be able to choose to skip that from the start

 

 

People absolutly hate this Flashpoint or did you not see the post a few below this one stating how they leave it.

 

That is probably because the playerbase is used to running in a white room with a boss in the end, like Battle for Ilum. I have done Kaon under siege many, many times and I still love it, makes me want to see "The Walking Dead" everytime.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Icestar

So what? even if it is an alternative, does that make it immune to criticsm?

 

I was simply clarifying that making EVERY boss mandatory for completion was not my original statement, nor is it something I would debate for today.

Prior to 1.6 I might have been able to understand the sentiment regarding gearing your character. Likewise if Exotech was not a watered down version of the Columi armor farmed from the bosses at the end of each run I could understand a desire to farm that as a temp piece. However given these facts when it comes to "upgrading your gear" it is more logical both long and short term to focus on the Columi drops.

 

When you factor that Columi itself is only a tier 2 armor for PvE and that you can effectively skip tier 3 (Rakata gear) all together by farming Black Hole Commendations in order to purchase Mk1 armors and Campaign armorings for the set bonus... the mid run bosses become rather a hindrance to upgrading rather than an asset.

 

Though one could argue that in terms of secondary stats Black Hole may be a side grade as opposed to an upgrade there is at the very least a marginal improvement in regards to primary stats versus the equivalent Rakata gear.

 

The point I am trying to make here is that if you are looking to gear your character post 1.6 the most efficient way seems to be to pick up your free Tionese set and then begin farming both Columi gear and Black Hole Commendations. Even if one assumes a skip on the one skippable end boss it should be noted that via your weeklies and the actual HM runs you will accumulate Columi Commendations to purchase that one missing piece in terms of the armor set . The whole time one works on Columi in this way they would also be farming Black Hole Commendations in order to begin further upgrades.

 

In terms of learning ones job, you should know the basics by the time you reach end game already. In terms of tactics doing a simple straight tank fight on a mid boss is not really going to teach you any tricks beyond what you likely already know.. It is the end bosses and the like who have the more advanced strategies that, at least in my personal experience, prove to be the greater tactical primers. These end bosses though are just that, primers to prepare one for the rigors of Operations where tactics, focus, and team work can make or break a run. While I can admit some mid bosses such as the HK fights on Hard Mode or Jindo can help teach how to watch for patterns, or even how the Trandoshan on FE can help teach how pulling to the proper location can make a huge difference... I would also be forced to point out that these are not bosses you generally see skipped.

 

In the end one can both properly gear themselves and begin to assimilate end game tactics via the end bosses and those that are not skipped.

 

It is however no less selfish to insist additional bosses be fought at your discretion than it is for others to impose the view that they should not. It in the end should come down to the majority preference of the group. Forcing one style or the other as mandatory will result in angry portions of the fan base. Instead it would be more logical to facilitate a way for each group to more easily find like minded individuals such as a box one could tick for full run vs not.

 

Do I do full runs by default? No, I am currently beginning work on my Black Hole gear and Campaign armorirngs

and so tend to speed run if nothing is said because what I need is the commendations. More often than not this is the majority consensus in groups I have ran with as they mostly want the Columi and Comendations as well which makes sense when you consider what I have mentioned earlier in this post.

 

In the end the only way to be considerate rather than selfish is to look to what the majority of the group doing the run would prefer. If it is not what you personally would prefer then you are left with two options. You can either seek a group more to your liking, or finish the run as the majority would choose and then seek another group afterwards.

it's not about gear... I really enjoy when people do a FP for first time and want ot run it with all dialogs and quests including bonus.

 

skipping is just meh...

i have to say this whole thread is kindof funny. i skip as many trash mobs and bosses as i can. gear from flashpoint is ok but its easy to skip whole tiers at the end game. my last alt went from full recruit to rakata+ in 4 days barely touching columi gear and thats kindof slow. in full recruit gear i tanked ec sm without trouble for a few pieces and the rest from HM LI and koan and dailies in blackhole and section x. this whole idea of fighting all the bosses is funny, there are way better ways of getting credits and if u don't believe u can't skip tiers without credits to buy it u are doing it wrong. its all the noobs who want the gear handed to them for minor work that agree with making everyone fight every boss in hardmode flashpoints they get que for and are usally the ones i end up carrying or quiting from becuase they don't follow instrutions.