MMOs shouldn't require dependence on other players. Other players are around, they can be interacted with, they can help you out with things, but they should never be necessary. Player interaction should be for FUN, not because you can't function without it.

This is an MMO. And you have just invalidated EVERY argument you have ever made about this game because you don't seem to understand that MMOs involve player interaction.

Besides, you don't need other players. You can make 8 characters per server and there are only 6 crafting professions.

In your quest for instant gratification you would make crafting more pointless than it already is.

BTW, if you make a purple armor and RE it, you can always make the same purple armor again. So suggesting that when REing a purple to get an orange the orange should come full of purple mods is..... Well it smacks of entitlement to me.

Besides, that system would be sooooo broken. I mean I craft an orange armor and it's got 3-4 purple mods in it? Rip those puppies out and sell 'em on the market. Sorry about your Artificer/Cybertecher......

This is an MMO. And you have just invalidated EVERY argument you have ever made about this game because you don't seem to understand that MMOs involve player interaction.

Some people develop these very distorted ideas of what an MMO "must" be, but the fact is that an MMO is whatever the players want it to be. They are about playing in a space with other players, but how much each player interacts with others should be entirely up to him. Some players play MMOs and never group, blasphemous, I know, but the point is whether they are having fun or not. Players should be allowed to interact, there should be things that players can do with each other, but player interaction should never be forced on players, there should always be options.

BTW, if you make a purple armor and RE it, you can always make the same purple armor again. So suggesting that when REing a purple to get an orange the orange should come full of purple mods is..... Well it smacks of entitlement to me.

If you make a purple armor and RE, you get a fraction of the materials, back, likely the most expensive of the materials. If the "drop rate" of orange schematics was relative to the drop rate of purple ones then you would lose a LOT of purple-class materials in the quest to achieve the perfect orange schematic. The reward needs to be more than just an empty hull that has no practical strength, and which the Armormech has no ability to empower. It either needs to come pre-filled, or the Armormech needs the skills to fill it. If it takes multiple purples to learn to craft it, then it needs to be purple+ when you get it, purple plus the ability to upgrade it later.

Besides, that system would be sooooo broken. I mean I craft an orange armor and it's got 3-4 purple mods in it? Rip those puppies out and sell 'em on the market. Sorry about your Artificer/Cybertecher......

I was under the impression that purple gear already came with purple Mods and Enhancements in them, just not Armorings as those were burned in. It used to be that mods were locked into place, and that while you could overwrite them, you could to remove them. While they needn't go back to that on ALL gear, making the default mods placed in these "purple-filled oranges" locked in wouldn't be a terrible idea. Also, if you remove a mod from a piece of gear, shouldn't both the gear and the mod be bound to you? This would at least prevent you from selling them piecemeal on the open market.

Some people develop these very distorted ideas of what an MMO "must" be, but the fact is that an MMO is whatever the players want it to be. They are about playing in a space with other players, but how much each player interacts with others should be entirely up to him. Some players play MMOs and never group, blasphemous, I know, but the point is whether they are having fun or not. Players should be allowed to interact, there should be things that players can do with each other, but player interaction should never be forced on players, there should always be options.

<sigh> Look, I am as fervent about my character looking the way I want them to as you are.

I'd like to be interested in crafting as well, however, the state of crafting right now is also..... Hmmm, I've always said "if you can't express yourself well without profanity, you can't express yourself well". Guess I can't express myself well, because I am completely at a loss for PG rated words to describe just what a waste of time crafting is right now. There is litteraly zero point in it, and there will be less point than that if we get an A-Tab.

If you make a purple armor and RE, you get a fraction of the materials, back, likely the most expensive of the materials. If the "drop rate" of orange schematics was relative to the drop rate of purple ones then you would lose a LOT of purple-class materials in the quest to achieve the perfect orange schematic. The reward needs to be more than just an empty hull that has no practical strength, and which the Armormech has no ability to empower. It either needs to come pre-filled, or the Armormech needs the skills to fill it. If it takes multiple purples to learn to craft it, then it needs to be purple+ when you get it, purple plus the ability to upgrade it later.

No one said it was going to be simple, easy, or cheap. As you have noticed, the state of crafting leaves a lot to be desired right now.

I was under the impression that purple gear already came with purple Mods and Enhancements in them, just not Armorings as those were burned in. It used to be that mods were locked into place, and that while you could overwrite them, you could to remove them. While they needn't go back to that on ALL gear, making the default mods placed in these "purple-filled oranges" locked in wouldn't be a terrible idea. Also, if you remove a mod from a piece of gear, shouldn't both the gear and the mod be bound to you? This would at least prevent you from selling them piecemeal on the open market.

Do not even get me started on the evils of bound items. BoE is one thing, BoP.... again I can't seem to express myself well here.

We seem to agree on at least two things here. The state of both the visual arts and crafting need a lot of work.

This is just for people that aren't satisfied with the current system, those that have had to put away appearances that they liked in favor of ones with better stats that they haven't liked as much, and do not feel that they should be put at a mechanical disadvantage behind players that do not care about their appearance.

Sometimes, I may have had to run another quest first and level-up or gear-up another slot first or grab a helper but, I personally have been able to skip wearing better gear that I did not like the look of and still do just fine. The game is just not that hard.

Imho, I find the way I look very important, but I actually like the fact that if you want a specific appearance, you need to work for it, rather than a drag and drop approach.

 

Just my 2 cents

wait until you get end game and find that your orange armor is sub par to raid gear that has set bonuses or PvP gear which helps you with PvP.

Basically, the orange gear is great for specializing your gear if you can find mods, and only if you are not bothering to collect raid gear or PvP gear.

As for customizing your look, orange gear is a weak excuse for an appearance tab.

One thing that bothers me, the only orange crafted gear I have seen on the broker is the same models over and over.

Either there are just no crafters actually making gear or Biowares statement that every green item has an orange equivalent was false.

For those of you that say there is "an orange item for every look", please tell me exactly what orange items match the look of medium Combat Synth armor. I love the look. I've reverse-engineered every piece up to purple, but as I understand it you can't continue to RE it till it gets to orange.

 

I've been trawling the GTN, and so far I have seen NO oranges that duplicate the look. I've seen plenty of stuff that is hideous, or looks like it belongs in City of Heroes, but nothing that matches the look of Combat Synth.

 

You can't tell me that it's "not lore," or it wouldn't be available at all.

 

Until someone can specifically name the orange armor that gives me a look identical to what I'm wearing, and what I like, I don't think you can argue that you can get any look you want from crafting.

provide a screenshot I'll try to help. Oranges are not the only 100 percent modifiable pieces btw.. quest blues etc.. can do the same.

wait until you get end game and find that your orange armor is sub par to raid gear that has set bonuses or PvP gear which helps you with PvP.

 

Basically, the orange gear is great for specializing your gear if you can find mods, and only if you are not bothering to collect raid gear or PvP gear.

 

As for customizing your look, orange gear is a weak excuse for an appearance tab.

 

One thing that bothers me, the only orange crafted gear I have seen on the broker is the same models over and over.

 

Either there are just no crafters actually making gear or Biowares statement that every green item has an orange equivalent was false.

Or, 6 days into a new game, people have not managed to RE everything yet.

Aside from appearance there is precious little reason to craft. This too needs to be fixed.

I roleplay.. for me an appearence tab is kinda necessary.

I want to go into a bar rply, change out of heavy armour and put on something lighter and relax on board my ship with a few friends rply, then I shouldn't I have the choice to put on something that disguises my armour.

Would you truly go to a formal dinner in your trooper plate? Or would you purchase the Formal Wear from the Social Merchant?

Yes it is orange and I could mod it.. but it is LIGHT armour... and thusly would not provide the stats I need when out questing.

Why can't I just swap it in and out as needed, after all, I would be swapping my app gear in and out, right?

Because of the times I will invariably forget to swap it out and I fail to see the need for me to remove my adventuring gear to get the look I need. That is what an app tab is for. Say I like the look of that orange robe and that purple head slot together as a adventurer? But I have out-leveled that purple... without a app tab, I am screwed.

Someone mentioned limiting the app tab to armour type that you can use etc, heavy type being limited to heavy type etc, but then that removes the chance for those characters who rp and are heavy armour wearers to chose to wear lighter clothing, or clothing more approprite to the setting that they are to be rping in, once again... would you go to a rp wedding or party in your bulky armour?

Someone mentioned limiting the app tab to armour type that you can use etc, heavy type being limited to heavy type etc, but then that removes the chance for those characters who rp and are heavy armour wearers to chose to wear lighter clothing, or clothing more approprite to the setting that they are to be rping in, once again... would you go to a rp wedding or party in your bulky armour?

Unfortunately, BWs design philosophy seems to be that each AC should be easily identifiable visually.

I strongly disagree with there position of catering to lackwitted PvPers, feeling pretty strongly that PvP should be competitive and not more spoon feeing.

My point being that you shouldn't get your hopes up.

Or, 6 days into a new game, people have not managed to RE everything yet.

 

Aside from appearance there is precious little reason to craft. This too needs to be fixed.

you don't get orange recipes from REing.

I'd like to be interested in crafting as well, however, the state of crafting right now is also..... Hmmm, I've always said "if you can't express yourself well without profanity, you can't express yourself well". Guess I can't express myself well, because I am completely at a loss for PG rated words to describe just what a waste of time crafting is right now. There is litteraly zero point in it, and there will be less point than that if we get an A-Tab.

No, there'd be considerably MORE value to crafting after the A-Tab. The reason is that now, if an Armor or Arms crafter makes an orange gear, it's appearance only, and the people they sell them to will only ever need to buy ONE of them, the one that they want, and from that point on they would only have use for mods for that slot. Then there are the non-orange pieces, which some people might want, but a lot of people don't care about because the appearance isn't what they want, and they have their orange piece.

With an appearance tab, every piece of gear in the game has two separate values, how they look, and how they perform. That doubles the value of each piece. It means that a level 50 character might have value for a level 10 armor, because that armor has an appearance that they like. It also means that a level 40 character can equip a piece of green/blue/purple crafted gear without worrying about how it'll mess up his look. It means that players are much more likely to seek out the best gear possible for their level, rather then trying to find mods for their orange gear only.

Adding an appearance tab would make EVERY crafting set more valuable, not less.

And that's just under the current system. Personally, I'd like to see every piece of gear become mostly customizable. Instead of having no customization on green, none on blue, up to two on purple, and four on orange, I would have it so that all gear has at least 2 slots available (mod and enhance, also color in weapons), just that green gear would come with no mods pre-slotted and would have a reduced armor, blue versions would have the equivalent of a blue Armoring so higher armor and would have one blue Mod slotted in, and purple versions would have the equivalent of a purple Armoring and both slots pre-filled with Blue mods. This keeps the disparity in base stats, and means that these pieces would obsolesce over time, but for a given level range you would be able to customize and upgrade them a bit to carry them over the hump to the next best piece of gear.

In my view, the mod system should have nothing to do with appearance whatsoever, it should be completely separate from appearance. What mods should be for is enhancement and customization. The best gear you're likely to have at any given level should be less out of the box than it would be if you slotted superior mods into it, and of course the stats it comes with might not be exactly what is ideal for your character, and mods can be used to clear that gap.

No one said it was going to be simple, easy, or cheap. As you have noticed, the state of crafting leaves a lot to be desired right now.

I want it to be simple, easy, and cheap. Changing your appearance is not something that should have a cost attached, at least not within the collection of appearances you've already amassed.

Can you give a specific case where you actually HAD to wear and ugly piece of gear?

It happens constantly. Even my new level 10 Sage is wearing chest and leg pieces that I consider less attractive than ones that I'd earned earlier in that character's progression. My level 31 Trooper has come across dozens of pieces that have had slightly, or even significantly higher stats than what I have on, while not looking quite as good to me, or completely mismatching other pieces I have on. I have a great shot of my Elara Dorne running around in the best armor I had for her at the time, which was basic "storm troopery" armor, but with the helmet having yellow highlights, the torso having blue, the pants having green, and the boots having red. The companions are even more a victim of the current system, as they cannot equip a lot of the orange and purple pieces, which are class restricted (and companions have no classes, even if they look like they do).

Customizable coloring would definitely help, but even the cut of an outfit is often a downgrade from what came before.

And keep in mind, by "had to wear," I'm talking in practical terms, not literal. If I am given the choice between wearing a piece of armor that I like the look of, and then in my inventory is a piece of armor that can replace it and offer 5% better stats across the board, then I would consider that a circumstance in which the game is at least strongly encouraging me to put on the second armor. My point is I should never have to choose, I should be able to equip that second piece of armor without a second thought, and retain whatever appearance I've already had and enjoyed.

Earning NEW looks might be something worthy of some effort, but retaining existing looks should take zero effort. Not everything deserves to be a slog.

provide a screenshot I'll try to help. Oranges are not the only 100 percent modifiable pieces btw.. quest blues etc.. can do the same.

There are blues where you can change out the Armoring slots?

Unfortunately, BWs design philosophy seems to be that each AC should be easily identifiable visually.

They are already, by weapon and stance. Still, I think they would be better off just having a little icon over their head in PvP to tell their class.

I would really like an apperance tab. The look of my toon is very important to me.

I personally like the way the apperance tab is implemented in LOTRO and EQ2.

you don't get orange recipes from REing.

As I said, "This too, needs to be fixed."

There are blues where you can change out the Armoring slots?

I know there are some epics out there with low base stats then 2 mod slots.

They are already, by weapon and stance. Still, I think they would be better off just having a little icon over their head in PvP to tell their class.

I don't know about that, sometimes I see a person with a lightsaber run after me and I think they are a bounty hunter... lol.

yes there are blues where you can change out armoring slots honestly I don't know what the color orange even means anymore.. maybe it comes modless or not all items are marked properly.

Orange items have no stats when the mods are taken out. The one benefit to this is that the orange gear will be what ever level the mods in place are. Blue/Purple gear with stats have a set item-level so even if you over mod the item it will not be as good in the long run.

But all this gear is useless compared to PvP gear and set gear end game.

But all this gear is useless compared to PvP gear and set gear end game.

This is the crux of the issue, well this and how insanely hard it is to acquire schematics for orange gear.

BioWare promised us we'd be able to look the way we want, even in the endgame. This has turned out to be pretty much all lies so far.

The reward vs effort ratio to acquire schematics for orange gear is way out of whack, there's no decent way to search the GTN for them (they get lumped in with blue items and there's no way to tell whether you already know a schematic aside from keeping a list on a sheet of paper or so), the 'droprate' from mission skills is insanely low (my last, useless, schematic drop was three days ago and I run missions constantly with my companion that has bonuses for UT) and then you only get one part of a set.

And on top of that they are useless compared to the endgame gear (or the exceptionally crafted epics as apparently you can't crit on orange gear?)

Sure the system is new, but these issues could and should have been foreseen (and they were foreseen by the beta testers but ignored by BioWare) and have been solved before release.

yes there are blues where you can change out armoring slots honestly I don't know what the color orange even means anymore.. maybe it comes modless or not all items are marked properly.

Those items might be bugged. In the previous build the blue items could be modded, and orange items replaced most of those in the loot/reward tables, maybe those items are leftovers that got missed.

I don't know about that, sometimes I see a person with a lightsaber run after me and I think they are a bounty hunter... lol.

My trooper is currently wearing skintight Jedi Knight pants modded out with Aim stats 1. because they're the only orange pants I've come across, and 2. because they make her *** look fabulous. In theory, she could wear entirely Jedi Knight gear, even under the current system, although the giant cannon might be a giveaway. Really the only classes that can get away with anything are Guardians/Juggernauts, who can disguise themselves as Sages/Sorcerers at the expense of having to wear light armor. I think the game can survive it.

wait until you get end game and find that your orange armor is sub par to raid gear that has set bonuses or PvP gear which helps you with PvP.

 

Basically, the orange gear is great for specializing your gear if you can find mods, and only if you are not bothering to collect raid gear or PvP gear.

This is what I was afraid of. Endgame, you need raid gear or pvp gear stats to be competitive or viable. I don't believe there is any way whatsoever to obtain armoring mods with these levels of stats on them (you can rip the stat mods and enhancements from those pieces but most of the stats are built into the armor itself). This makes the entire orange armor system fail as an alternative to an appearance tab because you cannot obtain armoring mods of raid or pvp level quality (as far as I know).

So, as it stands, since the orange custom armor system fails with respect to endgame stats, if you hate the look of raid/pvp gear (and you can never design armor with universal appeal), you can either look like crap or quit if you are serious about endgame progression.

This is what I was afraid of. Endgame, you need raid gear or pvp gear stats to be competitive or viable. I don't believe there is any way whatsoever to obtain armoring mods with these levels of stats on them (you can rip the stat mods and enhancements from those pieces but most of the stats are built into the armor itself). This makes the entire orange armor system fail as an alternative to an appearance tab because you cannot obtain armoring mods of raid or pvp level quality (as far as I know).

Unless they weren't truthful about that either the armor mods also drop in raids. That of course still leaves the set bonuses as a serious issue.

So, as it stands, since the orange custom armor system fails with respect to endgame stats, if you hate the look of raid/pvp gear (and you can never design armor with universal appeal), you can either look like crap or quit if you are serious about endgame progression.

Alas. I at first signed for a 6month sub but I think I'll cancel that and replace it with a monthly sub and see where they're at 2 months in. At the very least they should work on their communication skills...

Don't understand why you need an appearance tab. We do not need inquisitors running around in trooper armor casting force attacks.

Aside from that, everything else you can mod. I don't like my agent's gear. So I'm running around in sith marauder's level 40 pvp vest instead. Same for my helmet. I don't see the problem with customization, every green/blue piece I've seen, has an orange model that you can buy associated with it. You just need to put some work into it.

Unless, of course, you can not remove the mods out of the raid/ high end pvp gear. In which case I retract my statement and they should either fix that (removed mods stay BoP to prevent selling) or give us an appearance tab.

What I would like to see if they do an A-tab is make the overlays craftable by synthweavers/armortechs to help the community economy as well as make them class specific. So we don't see Inquisitors running around in Trooper armor.

Also, I agree that they've made orange schematics almost impossible to get. My Underworld Trading is up to 250 and I've only gotten ONE and a guild mate who's gotten his to 400 has only managed to get two. I've had to buy the rest from the GTN... and even then it's almost impossible as well since it seems Imperial schems drop mostly on Republic side and Republic schems drop mostly on Imperial side.

One orange schematic I had been looking all over on the Republic side is prolific on the Imperial side. I had to do some fancy two-step to get it sold on the GTN to my Republic character on Nar Shadaa. They REALLY need to fix that!

We either need an appearance tab or BioWare needs to fix the orange item/mod system.

- Make Underworld Trading drop more recipes

- Make orange items able to be critically crafted

- Make epic operation mods provide set bonuses, like non-orange gear does.

Otherwise the whole system falls apart at the endgame.

Don't understand why you need an appearance tab. We do not need inquisitors running around in trooper armor casting force attacks.

 

Aside from that, everything else you can mod. I don't like my agent's gear. So I'm running around in sith marauder's level 40 pvp vest instead. Same for my helmet. I don't see the problem with customization, every green/blue piece I've seen, has an orange model that you can buy associated with it. You just need to put some work into it.

 

Unless, of course, you can not remove the mods out of the raid/ high end pvp gear. In which case I retract my statement and they should either fix that (removed mods stay BoP to prevent selling) or give us an appearance tab.

Bioware can restrict the appearance tab based on Light/Medium/Heavy limitations.

Not that it really matters because there is a whole set of Trooper Gear that anyone can wear for Empire players and I'm sure an opposing set for Republic.

Don't understand why you need an appearance tab. We do not need inquisitors running around in trooper armor casting force attacks.

first, you don't have to understand the need for it, just understand that other players DO understand the need for it, and that because they need it, it should be added, even if you don't need it. Second, Nobody's talking about a system in which Inquisitors could be running around in Trooper Armor, so stop throwing out straw men. An appearance system wouldn't allow for any appearances that the current orange system wouldn't allow for, it just makes things more convenient.

I don't see the problem with customization[1], every green/blue piece I've seen, has an orange model that you can buy associated with it. You just need to put some work into it[2].

[2] answers [1].