You should just give in man and play the shadow. My game time is a lot less than it used to be and I've decided to just retire my scrapper and stick with the shadow. They can do fine depending on if you're focused or not, but they also can do horribly, whereas the shadow has so much greater potential given those times a scrapper would do horrible.

 

The final thing that got me was just seeing how often I run away to LoS and heal up, whereas a shadow can pop Battle Readiness + wz medpac and do so while maintaining combat.

 

I watched some of the video that you have linked in your signature. You look like you handle the class well, but ultimately you can't escape the limitations of the class. You'll probably come to the same conclusion that I did and enjoy the gameplay of a shadow even more in the longrun.

Thanks, man. I appreciate the advice, and find myself leaning more and more towards what you suggest.

Yeah man, anytime.

 

And you know what, you're not doing it because you're running away from the class, you're doing it because other classes got huge burst damage increases and your class (did get damage buffs) has the same laughable defense it always has.

 

It's just the way it is. Think of how ridiculous other classes are, then you'll see the reason you need to have a better class (the shadow) to be successful:

 

Bubble-stun sorcs:

Ever open on a bubbled sorc with Shoot First only to realize they are bubble-stun? You are now stunned for 3 secs while they force speed away and now have the ranged advantage on you. SF hits hard, hard enough that if it crits it'll force the bubble to burst and stun you.

 

Same scenario as a shadow, you can open with Spinning Kick for the Expose Weakness buff (or not even do it at all), the damage from SK is very low even if it crits so you're not going to burst the bubble. You can then move to 10m and pull breach or project (if project is a lucky crit), force the stun while you're out of range so you don't eat it, then move in and have the melee range advantage.

 

Marauders/Juggs:

Ever get hit with Ravage/Master Strike when you are out of cooldowns in a group battle setting, because you've already used those coodowns? Ever try to just run away from Ravage/Master Strike to avoid the damage? I've run away after getting hit by the first hit and you still eat the entire cast at 20m+ away. How does that work and why would it ever pass off a skillful is beyond me.

 

Same scenario on a shadow if you're out of defensive cooldowns, you can Force Wave and knock them back mid-cast. Plus with such a low cd, you're likely to be able to have Force Wave available to you.

 

Energy Management:

Ever run out of energy lately? Still happens to me, especially with a 1/4 of your bar being used for scamper to LoS and then using energy to heal yourself, you're probably going to be out of energy at times. Even when you absolutely need to run your bar down to help ensure a tough healer gets killed, or whatever equal setting you can think of, it's likely to happen. Cool Head helps out a lot, obviously, but has a long cooldown.

 

Same scenario on a shadow, you can pop Blackout outside of stealth with the Marked Assault talent, which'll speed up your energy regen by 50% for 6 secs, as well as supplying 15 force just for using the ability. It's usable every time you leave stealth as an Infiltration Shadow.

I doubt Sorcerors/Sages in the 30+ warzones an easy kill anymore. I've tried beating them, they just throw down barrier, and call for an ally to come and beat you into the ground.

 

Incidentally, do you have any advice for handling infiltration spec assassins? I really don't like them opening on me while I'm guarding, and just don't know what way I should handle them in hypergate. A six second capture makes stunbreakers extremely dangerous to use impulsively.

I don't think it's the sorc 1v1 that's really the problem, its the fact that they are rarely if ever alone and you can handle them, but then they barrier and one of their teammates is right there to start attacking you. Or you're attacking them, they dot/kite you and run back to their teammates to have them do the dirty work. That's what I hate about players who play sorcs, personally. Most of the time I encounter them trying to DM me, they are attacking me from range and I hear their dot start ticking, but then it's very close afterward that I react and pinpoint where they are that they've already gotten off a Thundering Blast, which is auto-crit, and the battle is already in their favor. Tonight I happened to be in a game against 4 Thundering Blast sorcs, luckily it was on my shadow, but still wasn't fun.

 

As for the shadow/sin, if you're guarding and doing it as scrapper I'd say there's your problem. Unless you were looking for a more broad answer, which is you need to get the opening shot and you also need to be going against someone who isn't a top tier shadow/sin.

 

If you're guarding at all, I'd say respec to DF Medic (23/0/23 or 22/0/24) to keep yourself alive and do good damage. You'll need to get the first shot as a scrapper, and guarding it is not likely to happen. Also, you'd be better off guarding from afar and rolling into position when they attempt to take the node b/c they haven't been able to find you. You can thermal grenade them from range and beat them with dots/WSs while also giving your team enough time to get some ppl over.

So, as I hit 55 on my scoundrel I begin to make an askmrobot outline of what gear I will be getting. In summary, what Crit %, Alacrity %, Bonus Damage, and Surge % are you guys using for Scoundrel DPS? Say I play both Dirty Fighting and Scrapper equally. What has been working for you guys?

Scratch my last message somewhat. I am going for Scrapper totally and not Dirty Fighting at all. I have gone through the middle part of this forum seeing what people are liking. I have come up with this character on askmrobot. I need feedback now from you real Scrapper Scoundrels on more of X and less of X. Right now I have low Alacrity. I only have one enhancement. At that point should I run Alacrity at all? I'm not sure. 24% crit I think is pretty solid but I could be wrong. Great thread by the way and I appreciate any help I receive otherwise I am going to follow this character itemization to the tee.

 

Askmrobot end game PvP min/maxed low Alacrity build:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/ad81a698-106e-4237-96c1-b52082c2f904

Looks about right (Mr Robot link). Tech/ranged damage numbers come out a little lower than what I'd expect given the min/maxing, but that's probably due to datacrons and/or Mr Robot not calculating right (likely the former).

 

Not sure what everyone else who still runs scrapper would say, but power/surge with your current crit level seems best.

So would you suggest me have just 1 Alacrity enhancement or if im only having one just take that one out all together?

hey Ran,

 

Just curious if you are intending to continue to update this guide? I'm finding it very useful, but would definately appreciate further guidance.

 

I've been PvP'ing with my scoundrel quite a bit lately and am really enjoying it.

hey Ran,

 

Just curious if you are intending to continue to update this guide? I'm finding it very useful, but would definately appreciate further guidance.

 

I've been PvP'ing with my scoundrel quite a bit lately and am really enjoying it.

 

Well, it's Miyke's guide, so technically I'm just adding my $0.02 here and there. Just poke in from time to time when I'm bored.

 

Actually, I haven't really been playing lately, actually pretty much bored with pvp as a whole. I figured xfers would bring new life to the game, but it's not the playerbase, rather the content which needs to be addressed.

 

Anyhow, if anything I've ever posted (positively) can be of use or helpful in some way, I'm glad I could help. The basic thing with scrapping is the same across all my posts: I personally gear for power/surge with all cunning augs (that one should be obvious) and that'll help you hit as hard as you can.

 

Actually, a guy just whispered me the other night asking what I did different than him in a VS where I almost doubled his damage, said he plays medic as his main spec. I told him basically flat out, just do as much damage as you can out of stealth. Everyone becomes too dependent on their Shoot First opener to give them the Upper Hand (see what I did?) and it's too situational that you'll actually get one to go off, given AoE and whatnot. Plus, I've had bugs keep me in combat, long after I've died/respawned and you're just simply stuck, so I choose to fight (and die like an idiot, likely).

 

TL;DR: If you want to excel - 1. Work on your 1v1, solely for the purpose of you being called upon to stealth steal a node and may not have the opportunity to sleep > cap the node. Most ppl you play in regs should be easy enough if you play the class well. 2. Group combat, just try to lock down the healer or double up on a good opponent who needs to be taken down ASAP when you see it's time. Stick to your rotation, keep your energy in check, and anticipate you're going to get focused/killed very quickly. You're easy to kill outside of stealth; it sucks, you'll get laughed at and focused a lot when ppl know you're the easy target, but it's the price you pay to play the spec. Playing with a premade team helps that last part, though.

hey Ran,

 

Just curious if you are intending to continue to update this guide? I'm finding it very useful, but would definately appreciate further guidance.

 

I've been PvP'ing with my scoundrel quite a bit lately and am really enjoying it.

Hello there!

 

Just started my new job so work has been really crazy, but I was honored to get a nomination from you guys to possily represent the Scrapper class as a "class rep" to voice issues to the powers that be. This was such an honor that I am going to have to get back to updating this guide and keeping it current; my fellow Scrappers deserve all the info they can get to succeed.

 

So in the spirit of that, I am starting an update right now. Will continue to update throughout the month.

Well Miyke, I came up with an askmrobot character a few pages back if you need a "base" character with augments on every piece and everything. I don't know, might save you some time on the gearing section. But I look forward to the debates that come up and the updates that come!

I was hoping someone could explain to me the reason(s) for the rotation you recommend as well as the recommended stat priority.

 

In my experience (which I will admit is far less than most of the people on this thread, but still includes a crap ton of WZs lol) I've found that my rotation works better like this: Pugnacity>SF+FR>BB>DK>SP>SP>SP(If Round Two procs)>BW>SP>SP(If Round Two procs)>SC>TD and repeat from BB if needed. This rotation usually lets me get off SF and BB (our 2 highest dmg abilities) uncontested, keeps the target out of the fight longer (the extra GC allowed by using BB inbetween SF and DK), and maximizes the use of SP, as well as makes use of the extra UH and alacrity from Pugnacity. This rotation usually puts enemies in the respawn area in under 10 secs for me, but I'm sure there's a reason why you have yours the way you do and I'm looking to learn and improve if I can.

 

Now for stats, I've been using a pure Power and Alacrity build since lvl 35ish (lvl 47 now) and I LOVE it. The alacrity really helps put targets down quickly, and all my power gives me better sustained dmg without relying on crits for anything. It should be said that I am a little hesitant to use crit on any of my toons, I just don't like it. As I've heard it explained and seen for myself, crit is only a useful stat IF you crit. All those times when you don't crit are times when those slots would've been better spent on Power, and power works on EVERY hit, not just a certain % of them. Again tho, I'm sure you know what you're doing better than I do and I'd love to know if anyone else has tried a build like mine and could compare notes with me...?

 

Like I said, I'm looking to learn and improve if I can. Thanks! =)

I was hoping someone could explain to me the reason(s) for the rotation you recommend as well as the recommended stat priority.

 

In my experience (which I will admit is far less than most of the people on this thread, but still includes a crap ton of WZs lol) I've found that my rotation works better like this: Pugnacity>SF+FR>BB>DK>SP>SP>SP(If Round Two procs)>BW>SP>SP(If Round Two procs)>SC>TD and repeat from BB if needed. This rotation usually lets me get off SF and BB (our 2 highest dmg abilities) uncontested, keeps the target out of the fight longer (the extra GC allowed by using BB inbetween SF and DK), and maximizes the use of SP, as well as makes use of the extra UH and alacrity from Pugnacity. This rotation usually puts enemies in the respawn area in under 10 secs for me, but I'm sure there's a reason why you have yours the way you do and I'm looking to learn and improve if I can.

 

Now for stats, I've been using a pure Power and Alacrity build since lvl 35ish (lvl 47 now) and I LOVE it. The alacrity really helps put targets down quickly, and all my power gives me better sustained dmg without relying on crits for anything. It should be said that I am a little hesitant to use crit on any of my toons, I just don't like it. As I've heard it explained and seen for myself, crit is only a useful stat IF you crit. All those times when you don't crit are times when those slots would've been better spent on Power, and power works on EVERY hit, not just a certain % of them. Again tho, I'm sure you know what you're doing better than I do and I'd love to know if anyone else has tried a build like mine and could compare notes with me...?

 

Like I said, I'm looking to learn and improve if I can. Thanks! =)

 

Your rotation in incorrect for a couple reasons, the biggest being you're screwing yourself out of 6s of uptime on FR, though you would be able to maintain the armor pen buff like this it's still not a good idea. The other thing is this spec is total trash without high crit rating, even now after the crit nerfs I (along with all other "serious" scrapper concealment players I know) am running 28% crit. When you get out of lowbies this will make more sense, but if you don't get a crit SF or BB (and often both), you're going to get stunned and ********ed before you kill anyone.

As Racter said, you're screwing yourself out of Flechette Round uptime.

 

Flechette Round not only does c. 500 per second dot (average, can get over 1k on a crit) in addition to whatever else you're hitting them with, it applies a 30% armour penetration debuff that means your other abilities hit harder. You want this up as long as possible. You can only apply it with Shoot First or Back Blast, and Shoot First only works out of stealth. It lasts 6 seconds and the global cooldown on abilities (ignoring alacrity) is 1.5secs, that's why the most efficient rotation goes:

 

SF > ability > ability > ability > Back Blast > ability > ability > ability

 

Applying FR again in prep for BB is off the GCD, so you can do it without missing other attacks.

 

Also, you've left Sabo Charge until way too late. It's damage is comparable to BB and you want it up front for maximum burst, I put it straight after DK before the BB. Dropping to cover is off the gcd again.

 

Stats. You don't go into enough detail for me to know whether this is an issue, but Cunning is your best stat, stronger than Power.

Power gives 0.23 bonus damage. Cunning gives 0.2 bonus damage plus some crit chance.

However, standard talents and buffs mean every point of Cunning on gear is buffed by 14%. This means every point of Cunning on gear gives you (0.2 * 1.14) = 0.228 bonus damage, which is only a whisker behind Power's 0.23. Plus, Cunning gives you that essential crit chance you need to actualy kill anyone. Point for point, Cunning always beats Power. All augments should be Cunning, though mods that give you more Power for only a small Cunning loss (End loss not mattering) are worth it.

 

From the viewpoint of sustained damage, Crit is blurgh, Power gives more damage for any reasonable stat level. But in a sustained toe-to-toe fight, as scrapper you'll probably lose, so you want to get a crit on your big-hitting burst. That's why I think a bit of Crit at the low end, where you get the most return, is probably worth it. I'm wary of talking about % levels, because that also depends on how much crit chance you're getting off main stat.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Wainamoinen

i apologize, I should've given more detail on my stats, probly would help you answer my question lol. My priority has been Endurance>Cunning>Power>Alacrity. I've only stacked End over Cunning while I'm leveling and I don't plan to continue that after hitting 55. I don't currently have any Crit or Surge on my gear, nor any augments, so my stats look like this:

Lvl 47

Cunning 920

End 1161

Power 362

Alacrity 243

My crit rating comes to 18% from base+smuggler buff+cunning (7%)+1% that I can't figure out where it's from... Lol

Surge is at base 50% since I hav none on my gear

Don't know if you'll need it, but my ranged bonus dmg is 302, tech bonus dmg is 483

Anything else you need me to include just tell me.

Side note: should I hav my gear augmented at this lvl?

 

Edit: been trying the new rotation out in WZs this morning and it's SOOOO much better lol, I can take targets down noticeably faster.

Edited August 23, 2013 by JaysoTohl

I think this guide needs a bit of an update.

 

There's nothing on non-pyro Powertechs at all, and I see more than a few advanced prototypes hanging around.

 

I think madness sorcerors deserve a better spot than green/blue. I recall a well played balance sage I fought recently, where she would stun me instantly, run in the opposite direction, hit me with the force root, and when that wears off she would hit the slows. That is a long time with only rifle shots and explosive probe for damage, and nothing is cleansable without evasion.

 

Don't Smashers have obliterate to get out of close range roots?

 

And finally, I'd like to see info on arenas. That's all.

Edited October 4, 2013 by ekimmak

you said it is unforgivable for a scraper to not pop evasion against a sniper root. however triage also removes the sniper root and u can save evasion for their aimed shot or other huge hitters.

Any chance on this guide getting updated soon? I know 3.0 is coming, but any insight now would help before then. Thanks!

Any chance on this guide getting updated soon? I know 3.0 is coming, but any insight now would help before then. Thanks!

 

The OP has been unsubbbed for 5months now so probably no. I may look through and make an updated one soon

this is quite the project i have

Resubbed for at least a month just to try out the new 3.0 system. I unsubbed after they killed Shoot First and the Scrapper class more generally, but am willing to give the game another chance. No promises on updating the OP yet; if the class remains as terrible as it was when I quit, I'm not going to waste my energy on it. But hey, maybe things will improve and we can be viable again.

necro bumping to say that Knin and I have written a Concealment/Scrapper PVP guide that will be on Dulfy's website very soon, hopefully within the week. the guide is effectively done at this point, get hyped

 

we'll make a thread with the link when it's official

Edited February 15, 2016 by yellow_

necro bumping to say that Knin and I have written a Concealment/Scrapper PVP guide that will be on Dulfy's website very soon, hopefully within the week. the guide is effectively done at this point, get hyped

 

we'll make a thread with the link when it's official

 

Awesome, I just dusted mine off and have been looking for some info. In the mean time, I will jump (well, stealth) into the fray.