i honestly don't have a problem with it, i played wow from original to cataclysm and I can safely say that it was not the LFD system which destroyed the community, in fact on my server it made people want to group together even more, that way you didn't have to deal with random players who could possibly be bad. A LFD system is great in my opinion as a member of a tight-knit guild we lack healers, not having to post in general chat for half an hour looking for a healer would be very nice.

Yesterday evening a guildmate (solid tank) and I (decent healer) spent over half an hour on fleet spamming for DPS for HM Flashpoints.

 

Half an hour waiting to play. Not playing. Waiting. Doing nothing fun or productive.

 

That is absolutely unacceptable.

 

We need x-server LFG.

Yesterday evening a guildmate (solid tank) and I (decent healer) spent over half an hour on fleet spamming for DPS for HM Flashpoints.

 

Half an hour waiting to play. Not playing. Waiting. Doing nothing fun or productive.

 

That is absolutely unacceptable.

 

We need x-server LFG.

 

NO!!!!!!!

Let alone that class locked gear is still not a guarantee as another of the class type can still roll on it, claiming "I may DS dps/heal/tank into tank/dps/healer role and may need it (which is a reason against the DS system)/my companion can use it".

 

We already have those people automatically needing for their companions, add in X-server and there is No Accountability for such actions, Hence the decimation of a Community that can self police itself to a degree.

 

Do you have a chance to get the gear from the roll? Yes. Case f'ing closed.

If they aren't cross server you might as well not put them in. You may get a couple groups that way for lvl 50 content but not for pre 50 content. Learn from WoW, when they put in the dungeon stones forget what the called them they were a flat out failure. You need the largest possible pool of players for something like this to work. If the community on the server was that vibrant and tight nit you wouldn't need the dungeon finder in the first place.

 

If MMORPGs were rental cars...

 

WoW would be the luxury sedan - every feature you could want (which of course, you don't have to use, but it's there if you want it).

 

TOR would be the cheapest economy car you could rent. Zero features but it gets you from point A to point B.

 

Every other MMORPG on the market would be somewhere in between but far higher up the chain than TOR, for sure, because I don't think any mainstream MMORPG has ever been so feature deprived. Even indie F2P MMORPGS offer more than TOR does for basic features.

 

It is completely ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as players who don't want basic features in the game, even though they don't have to use them? How is this remotely logical? Why care or limit how other people play with your close minded backwardness?

 

Your analogy is wrong. If you want to use cars then the correct way would be that Blizzard would be the car company established in 2005 with WoW their flagship car. For 7 years they keep adding features until a new car company is established in 2012 called Bioware with their car TOR. Not having the 7 years of experience and metrics they still have tons more features in their first year car then Blizzard had in their first couple years BUT they also improved on some features and added new ones that aren't even on the horizon for their competitor.

 

That's s little more accurate. You can't compare a 7 year old game which has been printing money to invest in improvements to a new game from a company with no experience in the market. You could compare launches of each game and see how TOR has learned from WoW but haven't the time yet to add all features.

NO!!!!!!!

 

Hey, if you enjoy waiting to play, you can always log in and stand around Fleet for 30 minutes stroking your lekku before launching the LFG tool...

We're talking basic stuff here, not outlandish requests. Combat log. Target of target. Readycheck. Basic macro functionality (no stacking garbage like Rift has or anything remotely exploitive).

 

I'm not against combat log. I'm against Omen/Scada kind of implementation. People get to concentrate too much on the dps meter than actually seeing the fight and dying because of stupidity.

 

A stat window after each boss and a final stat at end of flashpoint like the wz one will be enough to compare against same or other classes. Having a summary after each boss make the players see how they are doing in sections of a fp and change their mechanics.

 

Macros can be nice, but my keyboard and mouse have macro software already, so in my case I don't care if it comes or not.

 

I'm not against LFG either. I'm against speciall extra rewards awarded by just using LFG. The only extra incentive I might recommend is extra incentive for tank/healers to promote those roles and balance servers a little more. But if implememted that way, it should check the talent spec and not allow dps rolling as heals/tanks because they want the incentive and shorter queue.

 

One person suggested to implement Dual Spec. I recommend Triple Spec. Dual Spec is good for dps only classes since they can have their PvE/PvP builds, but for a multi-role class is way too short. One thing I really liked from Rift is it's Quad Spec system. I only used 3 on a Cleric being Healer, Pve and Pvp specs.

Edited March 7, 2012 by malangus

I suspect the howls of anguish against it are from people who want/have to be carried...it's the digital version of tying a pork chop around their neck. Their idea of "building community" is "lots of people too polite to boot me for sucking desperately".

 

Here, most server pops are so low and instances are so easy, even terminally clueless can get groups...they've got a pulse, a core temp higher than ambient, and people are just that desperate. Put in LFG, and the rest of us aren't stuck playing with people who refuse to learn their class and/or refuse to listen or learn. Make it cross-server, and they'll get no slack cut. Personally, I feel that the humbling experience of getting screamed at by a 12 YO to be a great motivator...when the 12 YO is right.

 

It's the same people in a guild, who are constantly trying to get groups, with guildies going "umm, eer...I'm washing my toons hair, sorry". Same people, that when you try to help them set up their gear, go work with their rotation on the target dummies, walk them through instances (crawl/walk/run)...are always too busy to bother. Same people, that won't go farm mats or gold to buy the enchants or gems they need. But they expect "the community" to carry them through heroics and raids, because hey, they should have the same stuff the rest of us have...all without effort on their part. Isn't that what "the community" is for?

Amen for that brother Smitar. I have a friend that after 6 years still don't have a clue how to play a Warrior in WOW and is mad that he constantly gets beaten up. Edited March 7, 2012 by malangus

Please keep TOR in the stone age of MMORPGs! No target of target, no readycheck, no combat log, no LFG tools, surely no cross server LFG, no macros, no addons, no UI customization NOTHING. Heck, remove bindable hotkeys...who needs it, surely they're exploitive or somehow related directly to satan.

 

Someone obviously didn't watch or didn't pay attention to the guild summit.

 

Target of Target: Getting put in.

 

Readycheck: Getting put in.

 

Combat log: Personal combat log including test dummies on your starship.

 

LFG tools: cross server warzones, and single server LFG getting put in.

 

Macros: sure, they talked about that, but didn't give a definitive answer, so i'll give you this one, but tbh, you don't NEED macros, sure it helps but its not like AMIGAWD game is unplayable.

 

Addons: I highly doubt this will be permanent, but for now, you win. It's not like its a necessity either, addon's made wow stupid easy raiding. who cares about actually watching for a mechanic wait for the big bright text to tell you, and stuff like healbot and grid made healing so faceroll.

 

UI customization: yep, this is coming down the line too!

 

 

Damn, your 2/7 of there buddy, talk about a bad percentage. And those 2 aren't game breaking, and in the end imho, it just makes the game be dumb down.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

edit: typo

Edited March 7, 2012 by Suriken

Someone obviously didn't watch or didn't pay attention to the guild summit.

 

Target of Target: Getting put in.

 

Readycheck: Getting put in.

 

Combat log: Personal combat log including test dummies on your starship.

 

LFG tools: cross server warzones, and single server LFG getting put in.

 

Macros: sure, they talked about that, but didn't give a definitive answer, so i'll give you this one, but tbh, you don't NEED macros, sure it helps but its not like AMIGAWD game is unplayable.

 

Addons: I highly doubt this will be permanent, but for now, you win. It's not like its a necessity either, addon's made wow stupid easy raiding. who cares about actually watching for a mechanic wait for the big bright text to tell you, and stuff like healbot and grid made healing so faceroll.

 

UI customization: yep, this is coming down the line too!

 

 

Damn, your 2/7 of there buddy, talk about a bad percentage. And those 2 aren't game breaking, and in the end imho, it just makes the game be dumb down.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

edit: typo

 

Ah cool, so they are fixing problems and bringing the game out of beta. Thanks for detailing that.

Cross Realm no.

 

Server only yes.

-FIXED-

 

Cross Realm yes.

 

Server only no.

 

Too many low pop servers, and the community argument is lame. I don't want to be shoe-horned into someone's romantic notion of community.

Cross server only lowers the wait times because it means there is always a group forming, meaning for a char like a tank its instant action, once you have a critical mass of players where there is always a group forming and in fact there is queue of groups waiting to fill certain roles then the cross server part doesn't really add much in terms of queue speed.

The fact that the groups form faster also speeds up the wait times for dps as well; they just don't wind up with instant queues.

 

 

Not necessarily. A shame I cannot draw it out for you, but lower averages only means the average time is lower.

No, it really does mean that either the maximum edge case is lower, or that there are less people tending toward the high edge cases.

 

And worth noting: cross server helps the upper edge cases more than anything else: the people in rift who queued for 6+ hours single server didn't have to wait nearly as long once it was cross server. They saw an order of magnitude level reduction in wait time.

I would like to point out that the game CURRENTLY has a system basically identical to this. You flag yourself LFG and type your role in the comment and the list itself shows ur class and level. Heck you can even kinda say what u want to group for. But nobody uses it.

 

The problem is that once you look into lfg and see the 8 dps and no healer or tank, people tend to get very discouraged about it. And unless you sit there and refresh it constantly (essentially manually updating the queue) you are likely to miss someone who just logs on, flags himself for a few minutes, then logs off.

This is not a problem with the system but people. Just as they would be in queue waiting for a healer they could invite the people and wait for a healer to join but they don't want to do that do they?

My experience leveling a couple of both ally and horde on both pve/pvp servers. World is dead, the amount of people you found, you can really count them on one hand.

I was leveling an alt when they added it... The world was just as dead before as after; in fact, I ran into significantly more people in the world right after they added lfd while leveling (and continued to see more people at the level cap at the daily hubs)

 

What... what.... have you played any of them at all?????

Yes. It's not actually possible to ninja loot in either game.

 

it's possible to roll need on things that other people think you shouldn't, but that's not ninjalooting.

I would like to point out that the game CURRENTLY has a system basically identical to this. You flag yourself LFG and type your role in the comment and the list itself shows ur class and level. Heck you can even kinda say what u want to group for. But nobody uses it.

yeah, wow had it before lfd. It was useless.

 

EQ had it before wow existed: it was useless there too. If you wanted to pug a group you went to the zone you wanted a group in and spammed ooc for it, or spammed in the game hubs like PoK.

Edited March 8, 2012 by ferroz

This is not a problem with the system but people. Just as they would be in queue waiting for a healer they could invite the people and wait for a healer to join but they don't want to do that do they?

they do that. and then sit in fleet spamming for 2+ hours. I watch people do it on a regular basis.

The fact that the groups form faster also speeds up the wait times for dps as well; they just don't wind up with instant queues.

 

I havn't really got the time or inclination to prove it but intuitively it would seem to me that if you have a situation where a there is a shortage of one role then increasing the player pool would both increase the size of the queue and the rate that group's are formed by the same amount, meaning the average wait times wouldnt change. Also intuitively but not worked out I'd expect increased rate of groups forming would lower the variance in wait times which can only be a good thing

 

That would only apply when groups are ready to go as soon as the indemand class turns up, in situation's where you don't have that critical mass you would expect the averages to be higher for all roles as when there is no actual queue you could be waiting for anyone

 

I'm not against x-server lfg but some of the critisism's of it are justified, if the required critical mass cant be reached on a single server then its right to implement a x-server solution, I'd quiet like to see one that prioritises same server matches before looking out to other servers to fill the empty roles

I am disappointed to see the cross realm LFG tool being talked about as a future addition to the game. I was really hoping to keep that out of TOR just because of it's ability to destroy community in a game. I would be all for LFG server wide but cross realm is a no go for me.

The Group Finder feature we've discussed for the near future is definitely single-server only.

I havn't really got the time or inclination to prove it but intuitively it would seem to me that if you have a situation where a there is a shortage of one role then increasing the player pool would both increase the size of the queue and the rate that group's are formed by the same amount, meaning the average wait times wouldnt change. Also intuitively but not worked out I'd expect increased rate of groups forming would lower the variance in wait times which can only be a good thing

 

That would only apply when groups are ready to go as soon as the indemand class turns up, in situation's where you don't have that critical mass you would expect the averages to be higher for all roles as when there is no actual queue you could be waiting for anyone

 

I'm not against x-server lfg but some of the critisism's of it are justified, if the required critical mass cant be reached on a single server then its right to implement a x-server solution, I'd quiet like to see one that prioritises same server matches before looking out to other servers to fill the empty roles

 

Wrong. It drastically speeds it up because there are more people in queue than would be LFG without. A lot of people, msyelf included, do not want to sit and spam LFG while doing NOTHING.

 

hence groups form faster because people that otherwise wouldn't be sitting around doing NOTHING but waiting are now doing other things while queue'd up.

 

you're wrong. fact.

 

we need a cross-server LFG tool. not raid tool, raids should stay as they are. If I have to explain why than I can't help you.

Because almost every person giving an argument for LFG says he's a busy person with a family, he pays so he WANTS to have things handed to him, does it matter that it's an MMO and the nature of it is actually socializing?

 

I am a parent who wants LFG, you're right about that. But the rest of what you say is kind of pointless.

 

What in the world does this have to do with anything being "handed" to me?

 

I invite you to roll a character on the server Thana Vesh. Then go to the Republic Fleet for a night. I would like you to witness the general chat there.

 

[Oh and don't tell me to roll on another server]

 

It is near impossible to get a FP group going. I've never seen more than 60 something people on the fleet ever. It is rarely that high either.

 

I could sit there for hours trying to find a specific FP that I need to run. So, yes, I do think that I am a paying customer and I shouldn't have to sit and spam "LFG Directive 7" for hours on end to do things within the game.

they do that. and then sit in fleet spamming for 2+ hours. I watch people do it on a regular basis.

You clearly did not read what I said and clipping out what you need to TRY to prove a feeble point.

To those saying that the tool isn't responsible for player's actions need to study psychology a little.

 

Removing the sense of community will reduce perceived and real consequences for going against the norm. Go to 4chan and see how anonymity makes their community. While you wouldn't be anonymous, the odds of people remembering you, or your rudeness having an effect on your way of life is minimal to non existant, so it's nearly the same.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deindividuation

 

I do not support cross server lfg, but support same server.