not a good idea

probably not hahah but the idea of max/min dc hunting and farming all the credits to do all that doesnt sound like a good idea either

=

Smash Monkeys in 1.7 could be controlled by the liberal application of stun bubbles. What was perplexing to me was that they nerfed stun bubbles and didn't reciprocate with Smash. it would have been very simple to keep Smash's auto-crit for a targeted enemy and make it a standard AoE attack for everyone else. Instead they chose to mega buff snipers to control the smashers, but now snipers are off the charts in the hands of a skilled player. And yes, with the horde of players migrating to the sniper class, we'll see sniper meta average productivity drop and snipers will be buffed again in 2.1. Count on it.

Gentleman's wager? 10 credits.

Gentleman's wager? 10 credits.

Of course. 2.0 warzones are gonna be filled to the gills with new, crappy snipers. Your road map for 2.1 is obvious - buffs for snipers, more nerfs for PT/Vanguard. This is virtually trivial to predict.

TBH, I can't see Mercs ever being fixed now. They've had a year to sort it out. The PTS had probably 100 threads all parroting the same thing. That is, the class gets totally shutdown by a 1 button interrupt. It really seems that Peckenpaugh has an image in his head of how the class should play and there is absolutely no way in hell he's going to deviate from it. Even if it means that the class is near unplayable in PvP.

I'm gona go and defend Mr.Peckenpaugh a bit, which is a bit unusual here on the forums...

People often forget that interrupts have a cooldown. Melee ranged interrupts generally have a shorter CD, while ranged interrupts have a longer CD.

First. A problem with the Merc was being forced into roots by multiple melee. A situation where the Merc could not escape nor fight back. We are getting Hydraulic Overrides to fix that.

Second. People complained that the Merc had no RWZ value in the form of utility. We got a great new ability that should change that. It remains to be seen if the cooldown is too long, or if the ability needs to be adjusted, but we still got something.

Third. Another problem still persisted with the Arsenal Merc in that it required the build up of a lot of stacks, which meant that the opposing team could easily shut down the burst as it just took too much setup to start doing, and when you could've finally be doing the dmg, you'd be focused to death long before, or forced to run for your life (shutting down DPS). We are getting a fix for this as well.

So, what major problems - without testing the current 2.0 build - can you come up with? Because if you still think that the sole thing killing us are interrupts, you are just - and I hate to say this - bad. Yeah it hurts if you can't proc Unload. Maybe they could give Power Shot a chance to proc it as well, so that the ability would serve a better purpose, but still.

The way I see it, the devs (or A dev, since I hear Mr.Peckenpaugh does the balancing himself mostly) have actually listened, and that they have fixed (or tried at least) the glaring issues that people have been pointing out. We will see once 2.0 hits, but before that, please stop this sort of '1 interrupt kills us' nonsense.

People often forget that interrupts have a cooldown. Melee ranged interrupts generally have a shorter CD, while ranged interrupts have a longer CD.

And it is generally melee that is the problem, especially given that the only competitive ranged DPS is the sniper, which is now so far ahead of the merc in terms of PvP viability, that them interrupting us is the least of our concerns.

First. A problem with the Merc was being forced into roots by multiple melee. A situation where the Merc could not escape nor fight back. We are getting Hydraulic Overrides to fix that.

Hydraulic Overrides allows us to escape easier, granted, but it doesn't address the core issue which is that we're shut down. We move, we lose a lot of damage output (unlike our PT brothers where the ability originated). HO also doesn't prevent CC or interrupts.

Second. People complained that the Merc had no RWZ value in the form of utility. We got a great new ability that should change that. It remains to be seen if the cooldown is too long, or if the ability needs to be adjusted, but we still got something.

Nothing 'remains to be seen' about this. It has been tested quite extensively on the PTS in standards and ranked. The cooldown is way too long. It needed to be adjusted weeks ago. Ideas about improving the class have been posted again, and again and again. And utterly ignored.

Third. Another problem still persisted with the Arsenal Merc in that it required the build up of a lot of stacks, which meant that the opposing team could easily shut down the burst as it just took too much setup to start doing, and when you could've finally be doing the dmg, you'd be focused to death long before, or forced to run for your life (shutting down DPS). We are getting a fix for this as well.

A competent ranked team shuts you down in seconds. This hasn't changed. At all. As I've posted elsewhere, the difference in damage between a HSM pre/post buff after one tracer is about 1k. If it crits (big IF considering the crit nerf). Obviously there is no difference after 3 tracers.

So, what major problems - without testing the current 2.0 build - can you come up with? Because if you still think that the sole thing killing us are interrupts, you are just - and I hate to say this - bad. Yeah it hurts if you can't proc Unload. Maybe they could give Power Shot a chance to proc it as well, so that the ability would serve a better purpose, but still.

 

The way I see it, the devs (or A dev, since I hear Mr.Peckenpaugh does the balancing himself mostly) have actually listened, and that they have fixed (or tried at least) the glaring issues that people have been pointing out. We will see once 2.0 hits, but before that, please stop this sort of '1 interrupt kills us' nonsense.

Heh, yeah right. We playing the same game? I agree that interrupts aren't the be-all-end-all of our problems, but no, he hasn't 'listened'. Or if he has, he's been smiling and shaking his head as he derps out the balance changes.

Now was not the time for 'slowly slowly catchy monkey' bull. We needed bold improvements that pushed us forward, rather than little piddly tweaks that barely BARELY kept the status quo. The PTS forum erupted after weeks of nothing, and we got a promise that there'd be an improvement but it needed testing by their supa sekret dev team. TESTING! I've had bigger craps than this buff.

And it is generally melee that is the problem, especially given that the only competitive ranged DPS is the sniper, which is now so far ahead of the merc in terms of PvP viability, that them interrupting us is the least of our concerns.

 

 

Hydraulic Overrides allows us to escape easier, granted, but it doesn't address the core issue which is that we're shut down. We move, we lose a lot of damage output (unlike our PT brothers where the ability originated). HO also doesn't prevent CC or interrupts.

 

 

 

Nothing 'remains to be seen' about this. It has been tested quite extensively on the PTS in standards and ranked. The cooldown is way too long. It needed to be adjusted weeks ago. Ideas about improving the class have been posted again, and again and again. And utterly ignored.

 

 

A competent ranked team shuts you down in seconds. This hasn't changed. At all. As I've posted elsewhere, the difference in damage between a HSM pre/post buff after one tracer is about 1k. If it crits (big IF considering the crit nerf). Obviously there is no difference after 3 tracers.

 

 

 

Heh, yeah right. We playing the same game? I agree that interrupts aren't the be-all-end-all of our problems, but no, he hasn't 'listened'. Or if he has, he's been smiling and shaking his head as he derps out the balance changes.

 

Now was not the time for 'slowly slowly catchy monkey' bull. We needed bold improvements that pushed us forward, rather than little piddly tweaks that barely BARELY kept the status quo. The PTS forum erupted after weeks of nothing, and we got a promise that there'd be an improvement but it needed testing by their supa sekret dev team. TESTING! I've had bigger craps than this buff.

I have no clue what what you expect to get?

You want Mandos to turn into some freakin OP super gunner.

Gunnery currently matches and even surpasses the Marksman Dmg on live and targets drop much faster.

(Im the best sniper/slinger on my server, and i just rolled commando)

Im just laughing at the folks rerolling snipers. Bad on Commando = will be bad on sniper aswell.

QQ more...

I have no clue what what you expect to get?

 

You want Mandos to turn into some freakin OP super gunner.

 

Gunnery currently matches and even surpasses the Marksman Dmg on live and targets drop much faster.

 

(Im the best sniper/slinger on my server, and i just rolled commando)

 

 

 

Im just laughing at the folks rerolling snipers. Bad on Commando = will be bad on sniper aswell.

 

 

QQ more...

Yeah, it's not like there have been 100s of posts listing reasonable ideas for improvements or anything.

What do you play? I guarantee I play a better PvP commando than you could.

Go back to playing your sniper. Enjoy being FOTM for the next year.

And it is generally melee that is the problem, especially given that the only competitive ranged DPS is the sniper, which is now so far ahead of the merc in terms of PvP viability, that them interrupting us is the least of our concerns.

Point was, that 1 interrupt is just 1 interrupt. You have other abilities than tracer. HM and Rail are instant and hit pretty hard. RP is instant and allows you to pop 2 heals in. ED and MB work as a filler in a tight spot as well. Interrupts aren't as big of a problem as people make them to be.

Hydraulic Overrides allows us to escape easier, granted, but it doesn't address the core issue which is that we're shut down. We move, we lose a lot of damage output (unlike our PT brothers where the ability originated). HO also doesn't prevent CC or interrupts.

Slows and roots are also CC as in 'Crowd Control'. If you are referring to hard stuns and mezzs, yes, HO doesn't prevent them and it shouldn't. And the point about instant casts still remain.

Nothing 'remains to be seen' about this. It has been tested quite extensively on the PTS in standards and ranked. The cooldown is way too long. It needed to be adjusted weeks ago. Ideas about improving the class have been posted again, and again and again. And utterly ignored.

Nothing has been tested 'extensively' on the PTS as we didn't have any tools to test PvP 'extensively'. Free PvP gear + mods + consumables are pretty standard in games like EvE where testing actually means something. Here we had the bolster bug, people running with bad gear, and then people got bored and never came back to the test server and PvP testing was pretty much dead.

A competent ranked team shuts you down in seconds. This hasn't changed. At all. As I've posted elsewhere, the difference in damage between a HSM pre/post buff after one tracer is about 1k. If it crits (big IF considering the crit nerf). Obviously there is no difference after 3 tracers.

No, I don't think a competent ranked team shuts me down in seconds, and if they try that hard, the heals and taunts will just hurt their team a lot.

Heh, yeah right. We playing the same game? I agree that interrupts aren't the be-all-end-all of our problems, but no, he hasn't 'listened'. Or if he has, he's been smiling and shaking his head as he derps out the balance changes.

Yeah, because that's what people with jobs do.

Don't mean to sound offensive, you should try that too. I'll agree to disagree.

Nothing has been tested 'extensively' on the PTS as we didn't have any tools to test PvP 'extensively'. Free PvP gear + mods + consumables are pretty standard in games like EvE where testing actually means something. Here we had the bolster bug, people running with bad gear, and then people got bored and never came back to the test server and PvP testing was pretty much dead.

A bunch of us copied over multiple times and geared out in Conqueror with high end stims etc. Quite a few ranked matches, and lots from my server in particular running multiple WZs. I'm sorry you didn't get to participate.

I'm not getting wound up at you, and I apologise if it seems that way. Let's say I'm disagreeing with you 'vehemently'

Just how often are you running ranked with your merc DPS? It really is trivial for a top team to shut down the class without the benefits of sniper cover etc.

Yeah, it's not like there have been 100s of posts listing reasonable ideas for improvements or anything.

 

What do you play? I guarantee I play a better PvP commando than you could.

Yeah i saw you on the PTS, wasnt impressed at all, no offense buddy.

Yeah i saw you on the PTS, wasnt impressed at all, no offense buddy.

Conversely, I didn't notice you at all. I guess you were one of 'those' commandos.

No offense buddy.

Enjoy derping out 1.5 million with your eyes shut and hands tied behind your back on your sniper.

(You can see some of my PTS runs through the YT channel in my sig if you want to see how a Commando should be played. You might learn something)

Edit: Sigh. Trolled. You just hit 50 on your commando I see. Grats. Go **** up some other thread.

Conversely, I didn't notice you at all. I guess you were one of 'those' commandos.

 

No offense buddy.

 

Enjoy derping out 1.5 million with your eyes shut and hands tied behind your back on your sniper.

 

(You can see some of my PTS runs through the YT channel in my sig if you want to see how a Commando should be played. You might learn something)

1 week into commando 50 pvp, judge for yourself. Im pretty sure i will break 1k dps pre 2.0. Had a few 960+dps games in between.

It absolutely matches Marksman Dmg and Burst. Next week we gonna hop in with commando in to some RBG games.

We made scoundrel dps work last months with me breaking 1000dps, why shouldnt commando work? Its all about the fun!

http://imageshack.us/f/189/screenshot2013032322345.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/138/screenshot2013032112502.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/41/screenshot2013032019265.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/577/screenshot2013032000181.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/27/screenshot2013031800095.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/507/screenshot2013031713345.jpg/

Sure i cant reach my Lethality/Dirty Fighting numbers, but im not supposed to out dps a FULL DD AOE DOT SPEC with mostly single target burst.

http://imageshack.us/f/191/screenshot2013032522493.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/screenshot2013020400594.jpg/

Screenies

Grats. You'll do a whole heap more in 2.0 - I know I do.

You know what you'll do significantly more on? Your sniper. As in 1500dps on a bad day.

I realised a little while ago - You've been trolling in this very thread before you even ROLLED a commando. Telling us how to play because you saw someone do something in a warzone once. You even posted a link to my youtube channel a few months ago as some kind proof that we were viable.

Here's the thing, once more, for people like you who stroll in, troll the crap out of the thread, then leave:

Everything you can do on your commando, you'll do a whole HEAP better on another class. Don't believe me? Wait for 2.0. See what your sniper can do then. You say you're one of the best? Then you'll be cracking 1800dps+

See how much you'll get out of your commando. Tell me why the hell someone would bring one to a RWZ. Heck, don't take my word for it, ask every good RWZ team on almost every server why they're not bringing one.

 

(You can see some of my PTS runs through the YT channel in my sig if you want to see how a Commando should be played. You might learn something)

 

Nice video, cani ask were did you get that assault canon ?

Nice video, cani ask were did you get that assault canon ?

Fusion Bolt Cannon from the PvP weapons vendor on fleet. I don't like the look, but the sound is great.

Fusion Bolt Cannon from the PvP weapons vendor on fleet. I don't like the look, but the sound is great.

Yeah thats what i liked aswell, i know you can get that one on Balmorra but in green, and i belive it doesnt sound that good either as yours.

Grats. You'll do a whole heap more in 2.0 - I know I do.

 

You know what you'll do significantly more on? Your sniper. As in 1500dps on a bad day.

 

I realised a little while ago - You've been trolling in this very thread before you even ROLLED a commando. Telling us how to play because you saw someone do something in a warzone once. You even posted a link to my youtube channel a few months ago as some kind proof that we were viable.

 

Here's the thing, once more, for people like you who stroll in, troll the crap out of the thread, then leave:

 

Everything you can do on your commando, you'll do a whole HEAP better on another class. Don't believe me? Wait for 2.0. See what your sniper can do then. You say you're one of the best? Then you'll be cracking 1800dps+

 

See how much you'll get out of your commando. Tell me why the hell someone would bring one to a RWZ. Heck, don't take my word for it, ask every good RWZ team on almost every server why they're not bringing one.

You will never create big numbers with Marksman. And after the latest nerf on the PTS there is no chance for Marksman to ever reach such numbers.

They lost all their mobile dps. And have to spamm the most cost inefficient attack they have to get Ambush down to 1.5s cast. They lost frontloaded burst, they lost their mobile dps and lost dmg on trickshot. Only good thing right now is their improved Speedshots.

Sabotage is pretty much the same as in 1.7. Lost some survivabillity, gained some elsewhere. Some QoL changes.

Lethality got put in line with the other specs in terms of target switching and survivabillity.

HighTail it is a reworked version of an already existing abillity.

However the OP thing right know about SNIPERS is the new corrosive grenade. It was quite an overkill buff.

And its the only reason you see huge numbers on Snipers.

5 Target/ Aoe internal DOT / 5k dmg + 30% slow spammable and only 10 energy.

However corrosive grenade isnt killing anyone. And Snipers spamming this ability wont be much of a danger.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/screenshot2013030321121.jpg/ ( other team had only pve gear)

In the RBGs vs Nostrum and MVP the dps of Fatnerd and mine capped arround 1300-1500dps.

Show me Marksman and Sabotage reaching 1300+ dps in an RBG setting??

You want Mandos to turn into some freakin OP super gunner.

 

Gunnery currently matches and even surpasses the Marksman Dmg on live and targets drop much faster.

And just to touch back on this once more, because it's bugging the crap out of me. Almost all of the suggestions for improvements have been about allowing Commandos to remain viable under fire, rather than increasing their DPS in ideal conditions.

I know perfectly well what a good commando can do when left alone, I've lost count of the number of 800k+ warzones I've run. Here's the thing though -

That's small pototatoes to the top players of some classes, and unlike others (and more importantly), it practically evaporates when we're focused, especially as gunnery (so much more frequently in RWZs). We also have little to no utility.

What bugs me most is that this has been repeated time and time and time again in this thread, only for someone to show up, regular as clockwork, every week or so with the 'you just want to be OP' line. Take a step back and read.

Edit: Last I checked on PTS, the burst on my SS slinger was still FAR above what I could deal out on my commando. I didn't see the latest iteration, but besides - again, why would you bring a commando? What does it bring to a RWZ? Snipers have graduated from utility role to a DPS spot (some lethality had this already), and melee has the rest.

And just to touch back on this once more, because it's bugging the crap out of me. Almost all of the suggestions for improvements have been about allowing Commandos to remain viable under fire, rather than increasing their DPS in ideal conditions.

 

I know perfectly well what a good commando can do when left alone, I've lost count of the number of 800k+ warzones I've run. Here's the thing though -

 

That's small pototatoes to the top players of some classes, and unlike others (and more importantly), it practically evaporates when we're focused, especially as gunnery (so much more frequently in RWZs). We also have little to no utility.

 

What bugs me most is that this has been repeated time and time and time again in this thread, only for someone to show up, regular as clockwork, every week or so with the 'you just want to be OP' line. Take a step back and read.

Its a team game. Seriously, i dont know why people dont get this. Your team is responsible for keeping you clean and creating room for you to breath.

You are a midline support class!

A sorc with a meele on him cant do **** aswell.

The dmg of a Mando is kinda rediculous. Being able to deliver this dmg even under extended fire would make this class obsolutely freakin OP.

You have stockstrike, stiky, HIB, Demo, 4 pretty good instant abilities. Its not like you cant do dmg on the run.

Im coming from gw1 gvg where people actually know what TEAMPLAY and TEAM and SUPPORT means.

If you cant deliver dmg as a commando in RBG than you and your team should actually learn how to work as one.

Its a team game. Seriously, i dont know why people dont get this. Your team is responsible for keeping you clean and creating room for you to breath.

Oh FFS. Are you going to drag up every tired cliche that has been put down in this very thread?

YES it is a team game. YES if we get taunts, and extra heals, and peels and all that good stuff, we can do comparable damage...

... TO A CLASS THAT DOESN'T NEED ALL THAT.

$%#& Read the damn thread.

EDIT: **** it. Go on, run some RWZs, convince everyone that you're better on your commando than your sniper. Change the damn world. You won't though, you'll slink back onto your sniper, own faces with that, and pretend that nothing happened. Hey, maybe you'll even find some scrub team you can pew pew with your commando so you can post a win. Who cares, right? This isn't even your main.

 

Edit: Last I checked on PTS, the burst on my SS slinger was still FAR above what I could deal out on my commando. I didn't see the latest iteration, but besides - again, why would you bring a commando? What does it bring to a RWZ? Snipers have graduated from utility role to a DPS spot (some lethality had this already), and melee has the rest.

Lets see (2.0 gunnery) :

360° aoe knockback + slow

4 sec root ( good for linebacking)

30m single target mezz

stealth scan

tech dispell

kolto bomb ( works incredibly well vs dot Snipers)

10 sec Advance the Line ( for pushing trough in Huttball or Voidstar without getting mass rooted and slowed, cant be

pulled 30% of the time)

off heals ( good for split situations)

electro net ( garanteed kill against most targets combined with focus fire, extreamly useful in hutball)

70% slow on full auto ( again nice for assisting focus fire and linebacking)

incombat ress

30m burst

30m interrupt

can respecc heals for voidstar defense

on demand heavy aoe

(spammable 45 sec 20% armor debuff on grav round)

EDIT: ... This isn't even your main.

Sniper isnt your main?!! So what?

Are you kidding me? Are you seriously for real?

I'll try again. Why bring a commando to a RWZ, over a melee DPS or sniper? No, a list of crap like '30m burst' and '30m interrupt' isn't going to cut it.

Geez.

Edit:

Sniper isnt your main?!! So what?

I'm saying you'll quite happily try and **** up this thread, because you have nothing invested in this class. I'm calling you a troll. Again. You're the equivalent of me rolling into a sniper thread, and shooting down any concerns for the devs with 'YOU ALL SUCK, SNIPER IS FINE, LEARN TO PLAY!'

 

Edit: again, why would you bring a commando?

Because its FUN. Shows that the team has guts to freakin ignore the forum whiners and opinion, is open minded for new tactics and classes and variety in RBG and actually values the player more controlling the class than the class itself.