Doing a FP the other night and someone ninja loots. I believe it was 'for Jaessa'.

 

I intiate vote kick to be met with derisory remarks oike 'who cares', 'lol' etc.

 

No one seemed to mind that this guy was a ninja, is it now an accepted part of the game or have I missed something?

Here we go again...it's an unwritten rule that you need only for yourself. Unwritten - so 30% of the players have no knowleadge of it and/or are selfish *****s. You can as well roll a need for a companion as it is as vital to your gameplay as your own equipment.

 

Taking things for granted isn't enough, if you want rules state them before you start the FP.

Lowbie flashpoints: I haven't noticed any real difference here. It's mostly the same: occasional newbs who don't know any better, and occasional jerks who do.

 

Level 50/55 flashpoints: With the xp weekends, I've leveled a couple new characters recently and run these and there does seem to be more of an atmosphere of "the sort of gear you get in a fp is easy to get, so you can't possibly actually need this, so I'll just grab it for my companion / because I can" than there used to.

 

It's the same with random drops in story mode ops, tons of people needing on them just because they can (no matter what the loot rules were stated to be), and it's often let slide because people don't have a high opinion of the gear.

 

------

 

While I do think it's poor behavior, I have a hard time getting all that worked up about it, precisely because the gear isn't that important. Also, if you speak up and say you do actually need the gear, the people in the 55 fp/op who randomly needed just because are often happy to hand it off (some of them are probably just needing because others are).

 

For example:

 

I had just leveled a juggernaut and on one of my first 55 HM's on that toon a black market mk-2 shield dropped, and someone else got it but then handed it off to me after I commented that my character did actually need it.

Edited April 17, 2014 by cxten

Ninja Looting in modern MMOs means "Someone won the roll on the loot I wanted".

 

If I was a MMO Dev I'd just go the route Turbine went with LOTRO, just autoassign everyone loot, it certainly got rid of the entitled people crying about other entitled people with better dice.

Ninja looting in flashpoints I don't think is a big deal as the armor you can get with commendations. I was in a group for a 16M TC HM awhile ago. The Op Leader kept it on Free for all until the boss was at 3% HP then switched it to master loot and went offline. For a few minutes we said oh it was just a disconnect and we waited. Well... We waited long enough and he didn't come back online. I added him to my list and a few hours later he came back online. I asked him why he did it and the response I got was "There is nothing you can do about it now" and got an instant ignore. What made it worse was the group I was with was having trouble interrupting (pug groups lol) on the third try we finally downed him to have a underworld mainhand and a chestpiece looted on us. That was the time I had ever been ninja looted in this game.

Ninja looting in flashpoints I don't think is a big deal as the armor you can get with commendations. I was in a group for a 16M TC HM awhile ago. The Op Leader kept it on Free for all until the boss was at 3% HP then switched it to master loot and went offline. For a few minutes we said oh it was just a disconnect and we waited. Well... We waited long enough and he didn't come back online. I added him to my list and a few hours later he came back online. I asked him why he did it and the response I got was "There is nothing you can do about it now" and got an instant ignore. What made it worse was the group I was with was having trouble interrupting (pug groups lol) on the third try we finally downed him to have a underworld mainhand and a chestpiece looted on us. That was the time I had ever been ninja looted in this game.

well can you do that I mean you didnt stay in group so group disbands and you cant enter TC whiout being in raid group dosent that means loot got wasted... and you can do something about it report him

Ninja Looting in modern MMOs means "Someone won the roll on the loot I wanted".

Basically this, similar to how "troll" now means "someone arguing with me" and "literally" now means "not literally".

 

Unless you discuss loot rules beforehand, you should assume in a PUG that the only thing protecting your loot is the in-game limits on what people can request.

 

BioWare allows people to request anything that drops.

 

Therefore, nothing is safe if you group in a random PUG and don't communicate desired loot rules beforehand.

 

It's nice that the community works out certain implicit rules of etiquette, since it helps everyone gear up smoother, but just because you've learned those rules does not mean anyone else has, nor that everyone agrees with those rules.

 

Further, there's supposedly a direct response from BW ages ago stating that they view Need for Companion as a legitimate loot roll.

Edited April 17, 2014 by SW_display_name

Further, there's supposedly a direct response from BW ages ago stating that they view Need for Companion as a legitimate loot roll.

Are you sure? I've never seen anything like that. I have seen this from Damion:

Need vs. greed isn't as simple in our game because of companions, as well as Orange Gear and mod extraction.

 

We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for, and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits.

 

I don't have a timeline on this for you guys right now, though - certainly not in the next major patch. In the meantime, I strongly recommend that players who care clearly decide the expected need/greed role behaviors ('no companion need rolling or you're out!') when a group is initially formed. In the meantime, I'll work on getting this feature in the works.

It sounds like he considered Need is most appropriate for the player matching the primary class the gear is meant for.

 

Personally, I like to look at from this perspective:

 

1. Everyone in the group has companions, everyone can make money vendoring it, or ripping the mods, or whatever.

2. Everyone should get an even and fair chance at the loot, by rolling Greed.

3. The one exception is that player that would obtain a direct main-toon upgrade.

4. We give the player that loot drop by pressing Greeding or Pass while he/she presses Need.

 

Not that I condone messy, argumentative fusses about loot. It seems so silly to me -- gear is easy to obtain. My main approach to avoiding drama is for me personally is to always roll greed all the time everywhere -- no drama.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Khevar

TY for that @Khevar.

 

I used "supposedly" since I've never seen the quote myself, but it's been referenced a few times by people in other Loot Drama threads.

 

That quote kind of directly contradicts that claim, though, so the quote-of-a-quote-a-quote syndrome may have transmuted it into something far different from its original meaning.

 

So in that case, that's actually a much bigger step in a positive direction, indicating some degree of dev agreement with evolved loot etiquette.

 

On the other hand it was being "planned" 2 years ago.

Edited April 18, 2014 by SW_display_name

In FP's I only get gear for my comp if on that particular roll no one needs it. I ask if I could use it for my comp. There's an easy solution to everything.

For me I always pass on loot that I can't use or don't need cause otherwise for me its a waste of space and, also there are other ways to get credits. I tend to stick with the same gear for a long time if I can customize it and I like the gear design, so I rarely need new pieces.

There are some guilds in the game that will run under geared players through flashpoints in order to use NBG to get the gear they want and then sell or trade it off. Typically they stick to FP's etc that drop tradeable gear and then rack up on tons of gear using Need

There are some guilds in the game that will run under geared players through flashpoints in order to use NBG to get the gear they want and then sell or trade it off. Typically they stick to FP's etc that drop tradeable gear and then rack up on tons of gear using Need

Are you saying the guild is inviting an undergeared player to a group on the pretense of helping them, but then actually uses Need to take the gear away to trade / sell?

 

This doesn't make any sense. The BoE gear that drops in HM FPs is isn't worth trading at all -- good gear from HM FPs is all BoP.

 

If you're talking about lowbie flashpoints this makes even less sense -- those can be soloed at higher levels and don't require a group at all.

Ninja Looting in modern MMOs means "Someone won the roll on the loot I wanted".

 

If I was a MMO Dev I'd just go the route Turbine went with LOTRO, just autoassign everyone loot, it certainly got rid of the entitled people crying about other entitled people with better dice.

 

So, why to even bother doing leveling FPs in group then? Better just "solo" them with companion. All this will give you is even longer queue times.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Halinalle

Guess I'm weird in asking the group if they mind if I roll need for my companion.

I dislike it when people need roll against me for upgrades that they can't use. Tanking randoms is like herding cats, but a nice upgrade makes it all worthwhile. When one of the cats who would have failed completely without me there to handhold him up and steals my rightful reward for his companion, I stop playing for a few days in order to do my part to contribute to the long server ques.

the only things i'd change concern set bonuses and how many pieces you can win..i'd add a loot feature among those we have, where you cannot need an unassembled with the armor bonus you already have ( i've underworld chest, i cannot need on an unsassembled uw chest etc.) this would mean ppl cannot ninja and say ''it's for offspeck''

and another loot feature where you cannot win more unassembled drops than previouly set up by raid leader..this would encourage pugging imo

I really don't care what other people do. I have my own standards of what I consider correct behaviour, but I don't hold anyone else to them. To be honest I don't even look at whether the others in a group choose need or greed (I just check out what I've "won" at the end of the flashpoint or whatever it is we're playing). Don't see any point in getting upset over something you can't change. No way to force people to pick greed, and getting angry only makes your day worse. So I don't concern myself with such things.

 

I guess I'm not bothered enough about loot drops to make creating a PUG drama a worthwhile endeavour. There are enough dramas in PUGs as it is, without my adding to them by getting mad over who gets the prezzies.

Edited April 18, 2014 by PLynkes

I really don't care what other people do. I have my own standards of what I consider correct behaviour, but I don't hold anyone else to them. To be honest I don't even look at whether the others in a group choose need or greed (I just check out what I've "won" at the end of the flashpoint or whatever it is we're playing). Don't see any point in getting upset over something you can't change. No way to force people to pick greed, and getting angry only makes your day worse. So I don't concern myself with such things.

 

I guess I'm not bothered enough about loot drops to make creating a PUG drama a worthwhile endeavour. There are enough dramas in PUGs as it is, without my adding to them by getting mad over who gets the prezzies.

 

Only reason to do leveling FPs is: gear upgrades.

 

You can level up faster through normal questing than doing FPs.

Only reason to do leveling FPs is: gear upgrades.

 

For you maybe. The only reason I do them is for fun. I'm not concerned about how fast I level or what loot I get. Not everybody is the same, you know.

In flashpoints I don't care that much about gear since comms allow you to gain better stuff anyway.

I draw the line at Underworld tokens. When it comes to underworld token drops I really really hate those people who are needing while they have better gear on them. During pugs I have seen pretty much only people needing on stuff while they have better gear equipped.

 

If you think it setting masterlooter isn't such a bad thing for a DF or DP SM pugrun. These are the possibilities:

a - Opsleader is fair and gives the loot to the ones really needing it

b - Opsleader is ninja'ing the loot for himself or his friends

 

Without masterlooter:

c - You will roll against at least 4 ninja's on average (yes its that bad often)

 

The benefit of c is that you have at least a chance on outrolling the ninja's.

If option b happens than you can just call it a day, note down the opsleaders name and inform his guild about it. If their guild doesn't care just don't pug with an opsleader from that guild.

Also you will have completed the weekly anyway.

 

In short I think that the risk of having a crooky opsleader is smaller than having a fair opsleader.

 

EDIT: misleading typo

Edited April 19, 2014 by fire-breath

I draw the line at Underworld tokens. When it comes to underworld token drops I really really hate those people who are needing while they have better gear on them. During pugs I have seen pretty much only people needing on stuff while they have better gear equipped.

They could be needing for their alts or offspec.

 

I do S&V runs just to get a chance at UW tokens and mainhand. And when I join them, I join with my strongest character as I don't want to be a hinderance or have to be carried if I join with a toon that's a fresh 55 and needs the gear. And since i have participated in the run and contributed to the kills at least as much as everyone else - doesn't it stand to reason that I have a legitimate roll on tokens? Even more since I'm rolling on UW armor and mainhand tokens only while passing Arkanian tokens and Arkanian-tier gear.

Edited April 18, 2014 by slafko

a - Opsleader is fair and gives the loot to the ones really needing it

 

If option a happens than you can just call it a day, note down the opsleaders name and inform his guild about it. If their guild doesn't care just don't pug with an opsleader from that guild.

 

Well, that made me laugh a bit. But no thanks, I'll not /ignore the fair Opsleaders.

All these "ninja-looting" discussions changed my behaviour so far that I usually ( ! ) go out from OPs with ZERO ( ! ) loot - except with commendations, of course.

 

I always do "pass" whereas 99 % do "greed" for the same thing ... It has become NORMAL ( ! ) for me to get out of OPs with any loot - because I'm not greedy enough.

 

And now everyone will laugh obver me because I'm not selfish enough ... Well, if that makes you happy, then please just do it.

 

What I do not understand at all is using "need" for luxury items that are reputaion items. "I NEED this reputation", LOL ?

Edited April 18, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

I really only need role for stuff my character needs, or I want the gear model. In which case, I'm either soloing the FP or farming it with my roommate.