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Scoundrels/Operatives ridculously OP.


Bandelederen

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I like this comment.

 

Any class played properly all of a sudden makes then Overpowered.

I've only noticed that Sorcerers deal a lot of dmg and have that annoying heal, but that's how they are made :D

 

So much skill involved in pressing 3 buttons and watching your target drops. Don't make me laugh....

 

The fact that there are no brackets makes this seem even more exaggerated.

 

I don't care that theres so many problems with pvp. What I DO CARE about is that bio-ware acknowledges that there IS a problem, and they are working on it.

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Form a premade, use guard. Powertechs/Juggernauts/Marauders/Assassins and healers (and their mirrors) crap on everyone in this game. A scoundrel/operative can't do jack to this team. All the best premades I faced stacked those classes. Not dmg Sorcerers, heal sorcerers. Not damage operatives, heal operatives.

 

Melee/warrior class has ALWAYS been dependent on heals in MMO's. Proof? See the entire MMO genre. Add to this, assassins are far better in a premade with heals then operatives, because they are much better out of stealth with a spam maul spec and they give the team another guard and taunts which takes away all burst damage from the scoundrel/operative.

 

This game is designed around team play. If you aren't playing with a team and you are complaining about burst that simply doesn't happen or can NOT instagib players on a properly played TEAM? You are making a baseless complaint.

 

You don't nerf a class due to pug vs pug and then make them completely useless in team play... If you do? Then you made a entire AC pointless. All the scoundrels/ops will just reroll marauder/sentinel and give their team a damage buff, a mortal strike, a speed buff, and not be completely handcuffed in huttball on a scoundrel/op. Charge > having no way to get back up to a platform and having to shoot your pistol/sniper rifle for 500 dmg.

 

Absolutely, when my guild has enough 50's, we will have premades and I don't think ops will be so powerful. But we are all trying out classes at the moment. And I won't know until we try it.

 

Like I say, my big issue is with the CC in game at the moment. I am working on two, a sage, and unfortunately I specced my smuggler to gunslinger before I saw the benefits of going the other way (slingers are still pretty good of course). But playing a range class is a bit of a mare with all the CC flying around.

 

Gief CC immunities with no more changes, and I'll be happy.

 

By the way, I am a vet of DAOC and Warhammer, so I am well aware of how to PVP effectively (although I'll admit not "lite" in this game yet).

Edited by Hayemaker
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haha people are complaining about 1v1 world pvp. as the poster above me just made a great point. in team combat they probably arent op.

 

the game is not balanced around 1v1 it is balanced around having all the parts fighting together. so to claim a class already needs to be nerfed is just stupid.

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Im sure this has been said, but he prob used every cooldown had had to blow through you two, and had anyway even sneezed on him in the next 2 minutes, he would of fallen over dead.

 

They are a burst damage class, just like a rogue. they specialize in killing things fast, and the good ones are tough to beat one on one, but in a sustained large scale fight, they are at a disadvantage for sure. Just like other classes are great in a sustained large scale fight, but not that good one on one.

 

This is not a damn arena. I get so sick of having to say that. There job is to get in around the back and ravage healers, or protect cap points from people who come without much backup. You avg scoundrel would not have taken 2 decently played people that quick. They prob would of lost. This guy was just good.(or you sucked)

 

They are alreayd the lowest played class, if they get nerfed, there will be none left.

Edited by Saberolson
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So me and another level 50 runs op to cap this point in the Alderaan warzone. Out of nowhere this scoundrel opens up and obliterates the other lvl 50 before I can even react. He then vanishes and opens up on me with a stun.

 

At this point im thinking surely he cannot do the same thing to me, he just did to the other guy 8 seconds ago. Boy was I wrong.

 

STUN

4.7k

3.8k

3.0k

STUN OVER

 

At this point I have about 10% of my hp left and the fight is over. He just creamed the both of us in less than 20 seconds and hes still got 90% hp left.

 

 

And tbh this is not the only time I've witnessed these scenarios with scoundrels completely destroying people in a single stun. This needs to be addressed immediatly.

 

I'm overpowered really!?!?? what am i missing!?

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CC is the real problem. Give CC immunities, so you don't break one then walk straight into another, and people aren't going to be so helpless when getting stealthed.

 

Its true that a stealth caught out is an easy kill, but being killed without being able to do anything about it is boring as f***. I don't much care if the runt gets himself killed after he has killed me.

 

Tweak their burst down a bit, their sustained damage and survivability up a bit. Thats not limited to OP/Scoundrel, its a good rule for PVP in general.

 

If you get knocked down by a stealthed scoundrel or operative you are then immune to CC for a period of time. It fills your resolve bar.

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So me and another level 50 runs op to cap this point in the Alderaan warzone. Out of nowhere this scoundrel opens up and obliterates the other lvl 50 before I can even react. He then vanishes and opens up on me with a stun.

 

At this point im thinking surely he cannot do the same thing to me, he just did to the other guy 8 seconds ago. Boy was I wrong.

 

STUN

4.7k

3.8k

3.0k

STUN OVER

 

At this point I have about 10% of my hp left and the fight is over. He just creamed the both of us in less than 20 seconds and hes still got 90% hp left.

 

 

And tbh this is not the only time I've witnessed these scenarios with scoundrels completely destroying people in a single stun. This needs to be addressed immediatly.

 

Do you recall this players name?

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If you get knocked down by a stealthed scoundrel or operative you are then immune to CC for a period of time. It fills your resolve bar.

 

Slow/ stun for a range class is more or less the same thing.

 

Either I'm doing something wrong, or everyone can be perma slowed.

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Don't expect stealth classes to stop being OP with Jeff "WitchHickman" Hickman from Warhammer on the dev team.

 

Witchelves got hit pretty constantly with the nerf bat.

 

Operatives aren't nearly as abundant as Force users or bounty hunters. People fear what they do not understand.

 

Operatives have few tools for winning huttball. Like grapple, or force pull (w/e the sorc/sage ability is that can pull a friendly player to them) or knockbacks, leaps or speed increases.

 

We have some stuns... one of which fills the resolve bar to full for 5-8 seconds, while half the time not even working because the ball carrier had been previously stunned a few seconds prior.

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Slow/ stun for a range class is more or less the same thing.

 

Either I'm doing something wrong, or everyone can be perma slowed.

 

Slow is not included in this. You can be slowed as many times as a person wants. There is a really good thread at the top that explains resolve.

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Do you recall this players name?

 

shii-cho server:

 

drex

 

ole

 

just to name 2 that can drop people in the opening stun.

 

yes they must have epic gear because drex for sure has like 14k+ health. other than that most concealment operative and smug equivalents can drop people ridiculously fast. usually in the first stun. as long as they are 20+ so they get lacerate/equivalent.

 

the only way to know how this really will play out is when they try to do that to an equally expertise geared 50. will they still perform the 6 second wonder?

 

ps. i no longer believe sorcs are strong after witnessing the stealth classes openers, merc tracer missle spam, and near invicible tank play. the balancing is very close so lets not start a mess with nerfs all over the place.

Edited by audabon
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Just wanna mention a few things.

 

I have been hit by Reeno for 4k with full Champ gear. His initial KD hits on average from 3-5k on me.

 

Being a Sage, I can survive the initial burst at which point I'm force speeding way, setting up my HoT and my heal reduction proc and my force armor so I can heal myself...

 

At which point, he hits me with a 10M snare with a 2 sec root attacked to it. Yea, how many of you **** heads actually even know about that? That literally means that I can't even get out of his melee range for 5 sec while he's blasting me with an average 2-3k damage per hit. Ih, by the way. The 2 sec root doesn't respect any CC immunities.

 

Also just to clear a few thing for you other ******* who have no *********** idea what the **** you're talking about.

 

First.. DOT's DO NOTHING against a good stealther. They make sure they have all their abilities up when they decide who to kill which means, they go stealth and use the ability to remove all their DoTs...

 

Second.. the whole issue with the movement speed and getting to and out of fights. You people do realize that they get a 30% movement buff while they're stealthed? Which means that outside of force leap and force speed, they're the most mobile classes on the battlefield.

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He can trinket it all he wants, biowares funky *** resolve system wont give you enough resolve for immunity until u've been stunned twice, despite the insane duration of the agents stuns.

 

PS: This is even worse in Huttball, when the agent can simply use vent to escape when he done his deed.

 

Zetara, well then its not a burst class it is now? that is sustained damage.

 

This, i dident want to write about this until more players got higher up.

I guess BioWare got it's wow rouge class after all.And yeah as more and more people are finally figuring out the resolve bar is total junk and does no good.

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Just wanna mention a few things.

 

I have been hit by Reeno for 4k with full Champ gear. His initial KD hits on average from 3-5k on me.

 

Being a Sage, I can survive the initial burst at which point I'm force speeding way, setting up my HoT and my heal reduction proc and my force armor so I can heal myself...

 

At which point, he hits me with a 10M snare with a 2 sec root attacked to it. Yea, how many of you **** heads actually even know about that? That literally means that I can't even get out of his melee range for 5 sec while he's blasting me with an average 2-3k damage per hit. Ih, by the way. The 2 sec root doesn't respect any CC immunities.

 

Also just to clear a few thing for you other ******* who have no *********** idea what the **** you're talking about.

 

First.. DOT's DO NOTHING against a good stealther. They make sure they have all their abilities up when they decide who to kill which means, they go stealth and use the ability to remove all their DoTs...

 

Second.. the whole issue with the movement speed and getting to and out of fights. You people do realize that they get a 30% movement buff while they're stealthed? Which means that outside of force leap and force speed, they're the most mobile classes on the battlefield.

 

Well that's real nice. See as a commando you take the opener and 2 hits like a champ and then die. Your knockback doesn't do anything and they can trinket out of your cryo grenade.

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Do AOE's break stealth? If not, why not? Can't I use Jet Boost or something else when I think they're close and pop them out of stealth? I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but it would be interesting to find out if there are 'other tactics' you can use to counter stealth, as Wolfwood was talking about...

 

Also.. Stealth Probe never works for me (and I don't suck THAT bad).. I mean, it seems pretty much useless against a good player... it should be a larger radius and shouldn't show the AOE icon to the stealth player, IMO (if it does).

 

I seem to be 50/50 against all other classes.. win some, lose some.. but against Smugglers, I've won maybe once of out 5 or 6 run-ins (in World PVP)... I usually get stun locked to death. If that's the way they work, then fine, but there needs to be more potential counters against their initial stealth opener, then I think it'd be a bit more fair.

Edited by -Kraxis-
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Slow is not included in this. You can be slowed as many times as a person wants. There is a really good thread at the top that explains resolve.

 

Useful article, appreciated thanks.

 

However, It seems you can still be stunned twice before the immunity kicks in. For any clothy, no matter how much damage limitation you prestack with your clarevoyant abilities that allow you to know when a stun is coming, you are unlikely to survive. Which is, perhaps, why I had not fully appreciated the resolve system previously.

 

2 stuns in a row is still chain stunning.

 

And like I say, for a range class with most abilities requiring build up, being slowed is very little different to being stunned. You take a lot of damage while they are in melee range, and are constantly set back if you try to heal yourself.

 

Sometimes you can escape using your own CC and a combination of trinket/ force speed. But only occasionally.

 

Again, I fully appreciate that further abilities to be gained as I level may make a difference.

Edited by Hayemaker
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So me and another level 50 runs op to cap this point in the Alderaan warzone. Out of nowhere this scoundrel opens up and obliterates the other lvl 50 before I can even react. He then vanishes and opens up on me with a stun.

 

At this point im thinking surely he cannot do the same thing to me, he just did to the other guy 8 seconds ago. Boy was I wrong.

 

STUN

4.7k

3.8k

3.0k

STUN OVER

 

At this point I have about 10% of my hp left and the fight is over. He just creamed the both of us in less than 20 seconds and hes still got 90% hp left.

 

 

And tbh this is not the only time I've witnessed these scenarios with scoundrels completely destroying people in a single stun. This needs to be addressed immediatly.

 

That is their mechanic. They can pick off single targets, one after the other but are extremely squishy if you catch them or stun them back. I have only seen a hand full of Scoundrels that are good enough to pull this off thus far.

 

-Ender

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Ill agree with one thing i was expecting the Stun cycle to be similar to wow, in the sense of you being stunned then your next stun time would be lessened... here its a perfect example why wow did that.. because its chaos....

 

If ive got it right one Stun can be interrupted by damage and the other can't

 

the kick stun is a 45 sec CD so weather or not your gonna argue over weather or not thats a big deal is down to build potential..

 

Personally the scoundrel/operative is the only class that should be allow to stealth...

 

 

 

Second the cover barrier should be given to troopers not snipers...

Edited by SKULLWORTH
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Scoundrels/Operatives ridculously OP.

 

So me and another level 50 runs op to cap this point in the Alderaan warzone. Out of nowhere this scoundrel opens up and obliterates the other lvl 50 before I can even react. He then vanishes and opens up on me with a stun.

 

At this point im thinking surely he cannot do the same thing to me, he just did to the other guy 8 seconds ago. Boy was I wrong.

 

STUN

4.7k

3.8k

3.0k

STUN OVER

 

At this point I have about 10% of my hp left and the fight is over. He just creamed the both of us in less than 20 seconds and hes still got 90% hp left.

 

 

And tbh this is not the only time I've witnessed these scenarios with scoundrels completely destroying people in a single stun. This needs to be addressed immediatly.

 

This is so obvious and a problem to such an extreme that it makes me believe there are no devs. dedicated to PvP, or those that are should be fired.

 

This game is a ton of fun and really happy I bought it, but PvP is a critical aspect of any MMO for me and if I don't see it improve and balance I will not continue. The Scoundrel-Operative is the biggest problem regarding silly over the top over powered pvp classes right now, but the lack of any tiers is another.

 

We need a team that understands and genuinely cares about PvP or that aspect of the game will drive folks like me away.

 

-Gratus

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Do AOE's break stealth? If not, why not? Can't I use Jet Boost or something else when I think they're close and pop them out of stealth? I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but it would be interesting to find out if there are 'other tactics' you can use to counter stealth, as Wolfwood was talking about...

 

Also.. Stealth Probe never works for me (and I don't suck THAT bad).. I mean, it seems pretty much useless against a good player... it should be a larger radius and shouldn't show the AOE icon to the stealth player, IMO (if it does).

 

I seem to be 50/50 against all other classes.. win some, lose some.. but against Smugglers, I've won maybe once of out 5 or 6 run-ins (in World PVP)... I usually get stun locked to death. If that's the way they work, then fine, but there needs to be more potential counters against their initial stealth opener, then I think it'd be a bit more fair.

 

AoE's break stealth, knockbacks break stealth, getting sneezed on breaks stealth.

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