_tegrof Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Would like to see an official response to this please. Just want to know if we should have gotten some from TFB last night, or if we should expect to be getting some from SM EC. Seems odd it wouldn't be in the patch notes if it was meant to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raideag Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 If I'm not mistaken he did say in the Live Event Stream that SM isn't supposed to be used for Gear Progression but just for story, If you want Gear Progression he stated to do HM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthWoad Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 If I'm not mistaken he did say in the Live Event Stream that SM isn't supposed to be used for Gear Progression but just for story, If you want Gear Progression he stated to do HM's. Then how the hell are we meant to get a good group to do HM if none of them have good gear lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Then how the hell are we meant to get a good group to do HM if none of them have good gear lol Rakata is supposed to be sufficient. You can still get black holes from daily flashpoints and SM ops, as well as the Black Hole weekly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raideag Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Then how the hell are we meant to get a good group to do HM if none of them have good gear lol *Shrug* Guess they changed their gearing structure who knows. Guess for Gear you just skip story and do HM's as your Gear check. Q: How do you think the gear progression is affected that TFB is now dropping Rakata gear and not Campaign gear. TFB storymode drops Rakata. When EV and KP normal modes were released, they were meant as a progression into hardmode. We now changed that into storymode – for players who want to experience the story so now there is not so much gear progresion in storymodes. Source: http://dulfy.net/2012/09/21/swtor-livestream-qa-transcript/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Not all of us have full rakata. and besides it is not about that we have to do hardmode to get gear it is about they removed it without saying. Are you sure it's not about the gear? To be honest, I like where they're going with this. Back in ye old days of WoW, there were people who weren't in hardcore guilds who didn't get to see end-game raids and complained that they pay the same amount so they should be entitled to see the same content even if they had no business being in those places because they weren't very good or organized. The hardcore elitists complained that it's not fair to give some casuals the same loot when they're not working hard (or as hard as the elitists to get said gear). Well, here's the solution: The Casuals - Get to see all end-game content now. Want better gear? Then up your play and do what the Elitists do and run hard mode operations. If it's about content, you have it. If it's about gear, then work for it. The Elitists - Get to have their gear distinction for trying harder so they can feel like the earned something they worked harder for. This should make both groups happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning-Beard Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Well I guess it's going to be that much harder to get already-geared guildmates to run SM EC or Nightmare KP to help get new guildmates geared now that there's no incentive to run those raids outside of pure altruism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) Well I guess it's going to be that much harder to get already-geared guildmates to run SM EC or Nightmare KP to help get new guildmates geared now that there's no incentive to run those raids outside of pure altruism. Guildies are supposed to help each other out. That's the way it works. Honestly, you could do a raid that's a mix of Mains/New People/Alts so that there's more incentive. If you have guildies who refuse to do old content to help gear out new people, then those probably aren't the right kind of guildies. So I don't count this as much of an excuse. Plus, running SM EC and NM KP were only going to gearing my companions in BH gear. Even now, HM TFB BH Comms are only going to gear my comps still as the Hazmat Implants are trash for Marauders. Edited September 27, 2012 by Lostpenguins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshua Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 not just EC TFB gives no BH comms in story mode. We didnt kill the last boss, but the one chest we found and all of the bosses before? no comms. however, mini bosses dropped like 18k PER PLAYER in creds, and each group of trash mobs dropped 2-5k per player so repair costs are covered. I think this is intentional for all story mode content. get rakata and start running the hard modes. Hard mode EC got nerfed to hell with this patch too so it will be much more accessible in pure Rakata gear now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Hard mode EC got nerfed to hell with this patch too so it will be much more accessible in pure Rakata gear now. HM EC did? From what I read in the patch notes it only looked like SM EC got a real nerf. The only thing they changed in EM EC is that if you dps Toth and Zorn too fast is that it didn't skip a leap phase and go right into the next phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneknife Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 WHY has there been NO clarification by BW on this matter. They must know by know that people want to know whats up . Are they just testing the waters to see if the can pull this off w/out a huge backlash?? So much for the newfound communication skills !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshua Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 HM EC did? From what I read in the patch notes it only looked like SM EC got a real nerf. The only thing they changed in EM EC is that if you dps Toth and Zorn too fast is that it didn't skip a leap phase and go right into the next phase. My bad, read that wrong. You are correct. But either way HM EC with a group of Rakata is doable. Not fun, but doable, and most guilds in right now will have a mix of rak/bh/camp/dread gear running it. SM EC only dropped comms and one piece of BH at the end, I am pretty sure the last bosses will still drop the bh at the end in SM from what people were saying yesterday. I agree, there should be more ways to get the BH comms with taking this avenue away from us, but all i am saying it is still doable. and the SM content is much easier across the board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Considering that everybody can continue to just spam hardmode flashpoints every day for 5 black hole commendations a time, let's not pretend this is a change designed to restrict better quality gear to those who run the top tiers of ops on hardmode or similar nonsense. It does nothing of the kind. All this does is slow down the rate at which you obtain commendations. That's it. It's a fairly transparent means of dragging out the replay time of the newer content. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Post AllisonBerryman Posted September 27, 2012 Dev Post Share Posted September 27, 2012 Everyone - thank you for your reports and questions. We're following up right now to determine if this was an intentional change, and we'll let you know (and update the patch notes if necessary)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caligari Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Everyone - thank you for your reports and questions. We're following up right now to determine if this was an intentional change, and we'll let you know (and update the patch notes if necessary)!Thank you for your feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Dallas Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Yes, its more than enough. We have run Columi equiped full groups of alts fresh from hardmode flashpoint runs in and walked out fine. The stat value between columi / rakata isnt a massive DPS or HPS or Aviodence / Hp / Mitigation and its not much higher going Rakata to BH/Campaign. I think when running mox dps parser i went from about 1300ish in non optimised gear without being fully augmented -> 1600ish in optimised gear with augments. I call BS on this. HMEC is not a test dummy. 1300 DPS is pretty good against HM EC bosses in optimized campaign. In columi, it's probably impossible. In unaugged columi it's most-definitely impossible. For example, 4 people ever have cleared Z&T with 1600 DPS and uploaded logs to AMR http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog No person has ever done so with Vorgath. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elear Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Want better gear? Then up your play and do what the Elitists do and run hard mode operations. If it's about content, you have it. If it's about gear, then work for it. Or, you know, do one random HM FP per day, or go visit EV/KP SM trough group finder, you know, things elitists do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) Considering that everybody can continue to just spam hardmode flashpoints every day for 5 black hole commendations a time, let's not pretend this is a change designed to restrict better quality gear to those who run the top tiers of ops on hardmode or similar nonsense. It does nothing of the kind. All this does is slow down the rate at which you obtain commendations. That's it. It's a fairly transparent means of dragging out the replay time of the newer content. Nothing more. You still get BH comms for doing Operation Finder and for the new ones in completing the last boss. And, yeah, you can still do the daily HM FP's so you're correct this is slowing you down, but super-easy story-modes giving 30 (22 for operation + 8 for weekly completion) BH Comms for 1.5 hours of work in SM EC that was nerfed to make it super-easy is a lot less time involved than running HM FP's daily. Or, you know, do one random HM FP per day, or go visit EV/KP SM trough group finder, you know, things elitists do. Yes, they are still giving incentive for doing daily HM FP's. They are still giving casuals access to end-game gear by not doing what raiders consider to be end-game content. However, SC EC is no longer considered end-game content as it was super-nerfed so I'm glad that they removed BH Comms from it. Making it more accessible to casuals to see the story-line and experience the content w/out giving them the same rewards is a step in the right direction. If I had it my way BH comms would only drop from HM EC and HM TFB, but they're giving casuals some incentive for doing daily quests, and I'll settle for that. It just sounds like people who relied on SM EC for BH comms as a main source need to also settle as well. Edited September 27, 2012 by Lostpenguins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSylar Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I think I want to run EC HM, but have never done it before and am an Deception Assassin. Right now my gear is Tionese/Columi Main Hand hilt (color crystal, Mod and Enhancement are Columi)+22 resolve augment Columi Gloves+22 resolve augment Boots Belt Rakata Off hand Implant x2 Motivators Bracers Black Hole Chest+22 resolve augment Helm+22 resolve augment Pants+22 resolve augment Main Stat is 1641 buffed with no stim Endurance is like 1800 maybe, don't know off the top of my head, but it's 19.5k hp unbuffed crit is 32% unbuffed surge is 73% and power is 129 (i know i need more) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugLife Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 If these changes were intentional I can understand the lack of BH coms in SM EC, it has been heavily nerfed. However, what I don't understand is why we are losing multiple ways to grind out BH coms while at the same time we are being displayed items to strive for which have 350~ com price tags. NiM KP/EV have not been modified, yet according to several people on the forums they no longer drop coms. Not to be vain but this seems like a giant gimmick to keep subscribers. decrease potential black hole com income increase requirements ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) Please PUT BACK the BLACK HOLE COMM's. Nerf them to BOSSES if you must, but don't remove the only reason some geared folks run SM (That and gearing one of the guild members). I've geared my toon, but don't have any reasons to run SM for EC or TFB now with just Rakata dropping (Maybe the credits in TFB). PS: Love the new mod capable offhands! Thank you! Edited September 27, 2012 by dscount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil_Evenstar Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) Black Hole commendations are WAY too plentiful in the game as it is. As EC SM and TFB SM are intended for Columi wearing players to get Rakata gear, they should NOT be giving Black Hole commendations. Players should not be able to run easy content over and over to load up on Black Hole gear. There are many other ways to get these commendations as it is. KP NM, on the other hand, could be argued that it should still contain Black Hole commendations as it is a higher difficulty raid, one you typically already have full Rakata for. The commendations are one of the only reasons to run a NM other than the title achievement. If these are restored to KP NM (which they probably should be) then they should also be added to EV NM for the same reasoning. EDIT: For those claiming the new implants are too expensive, they are expensive for a reason. They are for the players for have grinded through the hard content, not meant for players running SMs and FPs all the time to get the best implant in the game easily. Edited September 27, 2012 by Basil_Evenstar Adding Information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshoter Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) not just EC TFB gives no BH comms in story mode. We didnt kill the last boss, but the one chest we found and all of the bosses before? no comms. however, mini bosses dropped like 18k PER PLAYER in creds, and each group of trash mobs dropped 2-5k per player so repair costs are covered. I think this is intentional for all story mode content. get rakata and start running the hard modes. Hard mode EC got nerfed to hell with this patch too so it will be much more accessible in pure Rakata gear now. I Don't see were HM EC got nerfed my guild run it today and its the same . ") Edited September 28, 2012 by moonshoter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshoter Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 So why exactly do you need BH comms if you are running story mode? If you have rakata gear. Jump into hard mode, get yourself some blackhole comms and campaign gear. If you do not do the hard content why do you need the best gear? For the modes to RE etc i could go n how much value the comms have . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnopsnosn Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) I Don't see were HM EC got nerfed my guild run it today and its the same . ") Misread, read SM... Edited September 28, 2012 by schnopsnosn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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