You can definitely reflect the TfB's Scream damage, although you still get the debuff that makes you 'invisible' - still that's easily dealt with.

 

I can also confirm this. You can't however reflect Phasic Spittle.

 

It also appears that while the reflected damage cap is 4968, if you reflect the attack you appear to take no damage regardless of how high it is and its only the damage the attacker receives that is then reduced. I'm looking for others to confirm or refute this observation.

It also appears that while the reflected damage cap is 4968, if you reflect the attack you appear to take no damage regardless of how high it is and its only the damage the attacker receives that is then reduced. I'm looking for others to confirm or refute this observation.

Confirmed, even 30k+ The Ends are absorbed completely.

Confirmed, even 30k+ The Ends are absorbed completely.

 

That is EXACTLY what I was hoping to see. It also appears that the threat generated by the reflected damage is equal to the full damage of ability being reflected, not the reduced damage that is actually reflected.

It's an amazing ability for sure. Dare I say it's as good (or even better?) as Resilience, in PvE at least? The CC immunity is a big deal in PvP, but for PvE I can't think of many encounters where I'd rather have that than the ability to absorb not only Force/Tech attacks but Ranged ones too - and that's not even considering the damage and threat the ability generates.

 

Very happy with our new skill. Even in PvP I'd consider it nearly on par with Resilience since the reflected damage can be quite significant.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Gondolindhrim

I've checked the juggernaut elite/ultimate commendation gear - it has absurd numbers of absorption , that according to some other excellent thread in this forum about perfect stat allocation, we don't need. I wonder why Bioware first make absorption kinda useless now, and pump out gear with lots of it.

 

I'm wearing right now the 66 gear, which I crafted via my all crafting mules. I believe that best enhancements you can put into oranges are those sturdiness ones with shield, defense and endurance on them (and if someone here plays on Progenitor I'll be more than happy to craft them for ya ) I'm slowly swapping my old purple augments for the blue 28s.... Which, when thermal regulators drop is increased will be swapped for purples. But as I see it now, the sets will require lots of itemization, and I think from elite comm gears, I'll just take the armorings, as the 66 will grant less endurance, but better mitigation.

 

Now, coming to pulls in 2.0. Right now, the one I'm having problem are Cademinu ones - especially the police blockade, where after initial pull more mobs jump into area, and are way too spread to area taunt them. And after few runs, I see that trash is now harder than bosses

 

Usually i pop up AOE taunt with Reflect right after, you should be get a good ammount of agro from that, and when you go into the Cantina, make sure you go in first so you have initial agro, just pop Reflect as soon as your in with a AOE Taunt, shouldnt have too many issues with that. I agree on the Absorbtion, but the other thing to consider is that any of the MK2's are Might Armoring's and not Guardian. All of the comm gear (Mk1's) are Guardian. So its either Str or End. Just curious to see how people are doing in the stat numbers. Im sitting around 18/35/23. Just seems like a pain to get that Def up, although i havent auged all my gear (all 69 minus belt which is 66 armoring with 69's ripped from a chest piece).

Edited April 26, 2013 by Edonac

It's an amazing ability for sure. Dare I say it's as good (or even better?) as Resilience, in PvE at least? The CC immunity is a big deal in PvP, but for PvE I can't think of many encounters where I'd rather have that than the ability to absorb not only Force/Tech attacks but Ranged ones too - and that's not even considering the damage and threat the ability generates.

 

Very happy with our new skill. Even in PvP I'd consider it nearly on par with Resilience since the reflected damage can be quite significant.

 

I'd put them about on par. That single target direct damage requirement for Saber Reflect is really the kicker since a Shadow can Resilience Super Kephess's Dread Bomb, Heirad's Lightning Field and Stormcaller's Cleave which really makes a big difference in those fights but we can't use Saber Reflect on them. Similarly, as far as I can tell, you can reflect the TFB's scream in HM but you can only Resilience it in SM. They're both excellent abilities and properly leveraged (from a defensive perspective) I'd put them on par, sometimes one is better, other times its reversed.

 

When using Saber Reflect + AoE taunt on the pull, use Saber Reflect first and right after the leap. It gives ~8k threat on everything in range that you are in combat with, so most things should attack you anyway, then they will build threat on themselves for you and you can use the AoE taunt after to boost your threat.

I agree - thanks to the AoE caveat, Reflect is not superior in every way. I personally like that both abilities have an edge in different situations.

OP Updated for Saber Reflect uses:

 

HM TFB: I can now confirm Op IX's Disinfection is still reflectable in HM and if used as soon as he spawns, makes life a hell of a lot easier on the healers. Not sure if this is a Ranged or Tech attack and as such if Shadows can Resilience it.

 

Hammer Station -Tunneling Droid: Reflect allows you to eat a full channel from the tunneler droid if your healer "forgets" to cleanse you.

Hammer Station - Vorgan the Volcano: Reflect will single handedly hold all 3 mobs here as long as no one else tunnels the ones you aren't attacking.

Taral V - Shivanek: Entirely ranged/tech attacks. Reflect will hold him while you burn down Ripper.

You confuse me, Grall. In a great way, no doubt. But still... /confusion.

 

+1 for the guide and maintaining it. +5 for knowing what you're talking about.

 

I tip my imaginary hat to you, sir.

HM TFB: I can now confirm Op IX's Disinfection is still reflectable in HM and if used as soon as he spawns, makes life a hell of a lot easier on the healers. Not sure if this is a Ranged or Tech attack and as such if Shadows can Resilience it.

Noticed this too when I ran it the other day, was very pleased!

 

I would guess that it's Ranged based on the visual effect, but that's not exactly hard evidence.

You confuse me, Grall. In a great way, no doubt. But still... /confusion.

 

+1 for the guide and maintaining it. +5 for knowing what you're talking about.

 

I tip my imaginary hat to you, sir.

 

Thanks mate. Always happy to run with you guys if you're in need a tank (or heals/DPS even) but as I said, I'm with Vind for my mates first and foremost.

 

Noticed this too when I ran it the other day, was very pleased!

 

I would guess that it's Ranged based on the visual effect, but that's not exactly hard evidence.

 

My thoughts as well, but then I never tried to Resilience it on my Shadow before.

Thanks for your guide, its very useful, but still, I have questions/doubts on the "correct" defense, shield, absorb and HP you should have. I´ve searched and read lots of posts and I would like to know how you came up with the 25/40/25 for defense, shield and absorb percentages and how accurate you think they are, and do you believe that for 20/40/30 of mitigation stats is 31500 HP enough? Am asking these questions because i've seen diferent amounts of mitigation in diferent posts... so I just dont know which way to go...

Gralleh, thanks for the excellent guide! I've got a 50 guardian tank that I need to get up to 55 and appreciate the 2.0 update!

Thanks for your guide, its very useful, but still, I have questions/doubts on the "correct" defense, shield, absorb and HP you should have. I´ve searched and read lots of posts and I would like to know how you came up with the 25/40/25 for defense, shield and absorb percentages and how accurate you think they are, and do you believe that for 20/40/30 of mitigation stats is 31500 HP enough? Am asking these questions because i've seen diferent amounts of mitigation in diferent posts... so I just dont know which way to go...

 

As I say in the guide: there is no "correct" D/S/A vs HP gearing. Its all preferential, mostly on the part of your healers. Those number I posted were based on KBN's ratings for my stat budget at the time which was about 2400. Those rating have since changed but not hugely and the one fight I'm most concerned about (Thrasher and its massive DTPS) is still skewed towards Defence.

 

20/40/30 with 31.5k HP is fine. I currently have 22/41/28 with 34.8k HP stimmed but I'm guessing your in mostly 63/66?

 

Really, as long as your healers can keep you up, your gear is fine, if you want to tweak it for maximum survivability look at the ratings in KBN's post. Importantly, the old 30/50/50 everyone quoted wasn't actually the *ideal* ratio. It was just good enough and easy to recall. IIRC the ideal ratio was closer to 33/50/48.

Actually I am 69/66 (mostly 69), full augmented with defense and 4 with absorb (blue version though)... my HP is that low because I sacrificed HP to get those stats I showed you... In my experience its enough but I often see my HP close to 0... so I guess its a matter or balancing them according to the need of my healers... Again, thank you for your post and reply it really helped!

Actually I am 69/66 (mostly 69), full augmented with defense and 4 with absorb (blue version though)... my HP is that low because I sacrificed HP to get those stats I showed you... In my experience its enough but I often see my HP close to 0... so I guess its a matter or balancing them according to the need of my healers... Again, thank you for your post and reply it really helped!

 

Fair enough, I know I have a lot of B lettered Mods ATM since the unlettered tank ones can be a pain to get at the 30/31 tier. IMO Guardians can afford to have lower HP than the other 2 tanks thanks in large part to Enure. That 30% boost to HP when we need it is a life saver. Biggest thing I miss when running my other tanks.

- The Terror From Beyond's Scream can be reflected in SM, I have yet to confirm if this applies to HM as well.

 

Managed to test this tonight and TFBs scream on HM can be reflected as well. Another interesting thing I noticed during the final phase of the Kephess fight was being able to reflect some of the incoming damage from fury of the masters and/or volatile emission.

Managed to test this tonight and TFBs scream on HM can be reflected as well. Another interesting thing I noticed during the final phase of the Kephess fight was being able to reflect some of the incoming damage from fury of the masters and/or volatile emission.

 

Interesting, I assume Kephess's soft enrage would be AoE but raid wide damage sometimes count as single target attacks on each player in range and sometimes count as AoEs. It varies depending how they were coded really.

 

Did you notice if it gave you 5s where you took no damage or if it just reflected 'some' of the damage in that 5s? I know on my Shadow, Resilience gave me 5s of immunity during that phase so its all Force/Tech damage, just trying to work out the ST/AoE distinction on the attacks.

Excellent guide. I have had a guardian pretty much collecting dust for months and wanted to get him involved in raids. This guide greatly helped me to get up to par with him. Thanks.

First of all, excellent post and very good overview of JG/Juggy tanking and tanking in general. It will prove useful to many I believe and I will direct newer players/guildies to it. So thank you for your contribution ^_^

 

Minor correction below, your mitigation chapter is still in 1.7 and doesn't yet reflect changes in 2.0 as all K/E can be shielded now including F/T

 

= mitigation =

mitigation is a measure of how much you reduce incoming damage. There are 4 main components to mitigation: Armour, defence, shield and absorb. You also have resistance which applies to elemental and internal damage, but is only increased through skills. There are also 3 different types of attacks: Melee/ranged kinetic/energy, force/tech kinetic/energy and force/tech internal/elemental. M/r k/e attacks can be defended, shielded and are reduced by armour. f/t k/e attacks cannot be defended or shielded but are reduced by armour. F/t i/e are only subject to i/e resistance from skills. Fortunately, very few attacks are f/t i/e. The vast majority are m/r k/e.

 

Keep up the good work

Minor correction below, your mitigation chapter is still in 1.7 and doesn't yet reflect changes in 2.0 as all K/E can be shielded now including F/T

 

Thanks for catching that. Downsides to updating rather than restarting from scratch.

thank you for writing this up, really helped me understand what im getting into, however i have a couple questions: my guardian is only lvl13, so while leveling should i spec a couple points into reducing sunder strikes CD or go all out up the one tree to get guardian slash asap? also, it sounds like, at least once specced, prolly wont have that much trouble w focus. . .12sec rotation able to generate 1 focus from getting atked every 3 secs gives u 4 focus per rotation +6 from sunder strike = 10 focus generated per rotation, and all your focus-eating attacks + a second riposte cost 11 focus, so with a lead from saber throw+force leap and those other two abilities, especially after the one becomes a non-channel, once fully specced will i have any trouble with focus? if i will have trouble generating enough focus(while leveling or at top), whats the best way to generate all i need?(cuz im guessing spamming strike for a single focus point will really lower my dps)

thank you for writing this up, really helped me understand what im getting into, however i have a couple questions: my guardian is only lvl13, so while leveling should i spec a couple points into reducing sunder strikes CD or go all out up the one tree to get guardian slash asap? also, it sounds like, at least once specced, prolly wont have that much trouble w focus. . .12sec rotation able to generate 1 focus from getting atked every 3 secs gives u 4 focus per rotation +6 from sunder strike = 10 focus generated per rotation, and all your focus-eating attacks + a second riposte cost 11 focus, so with a lead from saber throw+force leap and those other two abilities, especially after the one becomes a non-channel, once fully specced will i have any trouble with focus? if i will have trouble generating enough focus(while leveling or at top), whats the best way to generate all i need?(cuz im guessing spamming strike for a single focus point will really lower my dps)

 

While leveling, Focus is a pain to generate so the first points you want to grab are:

- Victory Rush

- Improved Sundering Strike

 

AoE threat can also be difficult to grabbing Swelling Winds early really helps there. Plus more Sweeps means faster trash clearing so grab that early. After that head up the Defence tree prioritizing Lunge (cheaper Riposte), Courage and Cyclonic Sweeps on the tiers they are available since they make a huge difference to Focus generation/cost.

 

Focus Generation at endgame really relies on you being attacked. Not only does taking damage generate 1 Focus every 3 seconds, shielding and defending an attack generate Courage stacks which reduce the Focus cost of Force Sweep and Blade Storm by 1 per stack. This saves us up to 6 Focus per cycle, which brings your effective Focus generation from being attacked up to 10 per cycle (4 generated + 6 reduced cost). This is why you are literally swimming in Focus at endgame.

 

On another note, found a better time to use Saber Reflect on HM Styrak. During the Lightning Manifestation phase Saber Reflect will take off about 60% of one of the adds HP and save you a bunch of damage. Just make sure the DPS leave yours to last since its killing itself and dealing no damage.

Awesome guide! This will be great once my guardian is 50. I noticed though, that you said that Slash had a reduced cost when specced? I didn't see that in any of the skill talents. Could you have mistaken it for Cyclonic Sweeps, reducing the cost by 1 for Blade Storm, Cyclone Slash, and Guardian Slash?

 

Otherwise, amazing guide. T'was a great read.

kk, thanks one more question: on single-target rotation, especially b4 i get courage, say on a lone boss or elite, is the 5% acc debuff worth the loss in dps if i use force sweep instead of slash?