How does one measure dps Accurately without a damage meter?

With combat logs, and a website that proposes to do the math in your place.

With combat logs, and a website that proposes to do the math in your place.

Also MoX-parser.

The numbers were just random. It can also be 1% or 0.5%, my point was the mechanic implied.

 

But still, is 4860 too much ? Maybe, but that's probably not so much. That's almost the same amount of health a Sorc bubble provides.

And I ask you seriously : Will a Shadow/Assassin oftenly receive 5 Force/Tech attacks at once during Force shroud, I don't think so. And even considering parrying, shielding, can a Shadow/Assassin have 27K HP without sacrifying defense and shielding ? And do not forget Trauma, as this kind of situation is unlikely to occur in PvE.

Without sacrificing any mitigation you can get about 26.6k HP atm. I do doubt the 5 F/T attacks at once though.

The numbers were just random. It can also be 1% or 0.5%, my point was the mechanic implied.

 

But still, is 4860 too much ? Maybe, but that's probably not so much. That's almost the same amount of health a Sorc bubble provides.

And I ask you seriously : Will a Shadow/Assassin oftenly receive 5 Force/Tech attacks at once during Force shroud, I don't think so. And even considering parrying, shielding, can a Shadow/Assassin have 27K HP without sacrifying defense and shielding ? And do not forget Trauma, as this kind of situation is unlikely to occur in PvE.

Your mechanic is also flawed.

I'll explain why :

When is it you need your self heal the most? When you do a lot of parrying, or when you fight a tech/force heavy foe?

Because that mechanic would mean agains foes like toth (or is it zorn? The spellbound one) or soa, you might as well be in dps gear and you'll get the same result. Especially against that drouk since he does force or tech/elemental.

So the result would be massive overhealing when you don't need it in pve, and an overpowered deflection and shroud in pvp, especially since i suspect your plan would allow hybrid to get the thing.

Bringing back armor at 150% would help the sintank viability pre-30.

Your mechanic is also flawed.

 

I'll explain why :

 

When is it you need your self heal the most? When you do a lot of parrying, or when you fight a tech/force heavy foe?

 

Because that mechanic would mean agains foes like toth (or is it zorn? The spellbound one) or soa, you might as well be in dps gear and you'll get the same result. Especially against that drouk since he does force or tech/elemental.

 

So the result would be massive overhealing when you don't need it in pve, and an overpowered deflection and shroud in pvp, especially since i suspect your plan would allow hybrid to get the thing.

 

Bringing back armor at 150% would help the sintank viability pre-30.

Well, it would have made more sense if tanking mechanics were to work "normally" in the first place, I admit.

When I think to something good for tanks I'm always assuming that someday, we will be given the right to defend Tech and Force attacks, as i consider it "the norm". I tend to forget how messed is the actual mechanic.

(In fact I'm preparing to post an idea of mine, in which this mechanic was a part of it, but it was meant to also include Defense and shield Stats to work against all attacks, and hence it includes this flaw)

And no, my plan wasn't to give something too good for hybrids in PvP. That's why i choosed a mechanic that is most of the time out of reach for them. I can't avoid them from using Deflection or Shroud, but it will have a minor impact on overall because the remaining time, their avoidance and shielding rate will be near to zero. And even with these abilities, as they have less HP... the heals being a percentage make tank gear preferable.

The reasonning was :

DPS gear = armor and few heals

Tank gear = armor and many heals.

Actually, whether it comes to increase the armor rate, or increasing the heals, if you don't change the core mechanic of the stance, in the end it will be like giving hybrids more toys to play with.

The numbers were just random. It can also be 1% or 0.5%, my point was the mechanic implied.

 

But still, is 4860 too much ? Maybe, but that's probably not so much. That's almost the same amount of health a Sorc bubble provides.

And I ask you seriously : Will a Shadow/Assassin oftenly receive 5 Force/Tech attacks at once during Force shroud, I don't think so. And even considering parrying, shielding, can a Shadow/Assassin have 27K HP without sacrifying defense and shielding ? And do not forget Trauma, as this kind of situation is unlikely to occur in PvE.

I'm in full-61, sitting at 30,6% defense, 65% shield(with DW), 58,8% absorb with a stim, using one WH Relic with static Defense + swapping out the other relic depending on the encounter, but for most fights I use the Absorb-proc-relic.

Also you shouldn't think about Trauma, Trauma is irrelevant there.

The problem is that this would make us hilariously overpowered in PvE.

Without sacrificing any mitigation you can get about 26.6k HP atm. I do doubt the 5 F/T attacks at once though.

Boy I would gladly stand in one of those funky Lightning-bubbles in the tank-fight in EC if I can get an extra 2800 HP out of it over the course of 5s(they tick every second iirc).

Or a better example: Kephess' Gift of the Masters.

Something funny that just popped into my mind: Pop Overcharge Saber and you get 5600 in 5s. Neat.

Personally I agree with your statements.

 

That's why come up with this :

- Heals from Dark Charge heals for 2% of max health.

- Heals from Dark Charge occurs when parrying, deflecting, resisting and shielding. No CD.

 

With the heals being a percentage, it make the stance scale with gear, and PvE difficulty.

With making the heals occuring on incoming attacks, it make the survivability from a passive skill, entierly passive.

With the heals having no CD, survivability keeps linear while the number of opponents increase.

With the heals being reliant on tanking mechanics, it avoids player from using Endurance only and forces them to use a minimum of Defense/Shield. In addition, it lowers suvivability of tanks using DPS gear.

Driving it off max HP I've already addressed but had another thought. We are already the best F/T I/E damage tanks by far. Scaling our self heal with max HP would push us even further ahead, especially if you run a max HP gear set for those fights.

Having it come from mitigation won't work because there are 2 situations in most Ops:

- Lots of small mitigateable attacks which would result in massive self healing

- Few large un-mitigateable (read F/T) attacks which would result in a 2% chance to self heal. This is especially noticable in Kephess the Undying HM where our self heal helps to offset the extra damage we take from lower K/E mitigation.

I'm in full-61, sitting at 30,6% defense, 65% shield(with DW), 58,8% absorb with a stim, using one WH Relic with static Defense + swapping out the other relic depending on the encounter, but for most fights I use the Absorb-proc-relic.

 

Also you shouldn't think about Trauma, Trauma is irrelevant there.

The problem is that this would make us hilariously overpowered in PvE.

 

 

 

Boy I would gladly stand in one of those funky Lightning-bubbles in the tank-fight in EC if I can get an extra 2800 HP out of it over the course of 5s(they tick every second iirc).

 

Or a better example: Kephess' Gift of the Masters.

 

Something funny that just popped into my mind: Pop Overcharge Saber and you get 5600 in 5s. Neat.

Get the Dread Guard healing relic. It works wonders as a Shadow/Assassin tank and is our best relic overall.

Get the Dread Guard healing relic. It works wonders as a Shadow/Assassin tank and is our best relic overall.

I've got every defensive relic in the game right now, including this one.

I still haven't tested it in higher tier-content.

If I'm tanking bosses that primarily deal I/E damage I put in the healing relic of course.

I've got every defensive relic in the game right now, including this one.

I still haven't tested it in higher tier-content.

If I'm tanking bosses that primarily deal I/E damage I put in the healing relic of course.

You should never take it off. It contributes more to survival than any other tanking relic for Assassin.

You should never take it off. It contributes more to survival than any other tanking relic for Assassin.

In theory, yes.

In practice? Some of it will be overhealing, and it's just not as reliable and predictable as standard mitigation relics.

Driving it off max HP I've already addressed but had another thought. We are already the best F/T I/E damage tanks by far. Scaling our self heal with max HP would push us even further ahead, especially if you run a max HP gear set for those fights.

 

Having it come from mitigation won't work because there are 2 situations in most Ops:

- Lots of small mitigateable attacks which would result in massive self healing

- Few large un-mitigateable (read F/T) attacks which would result in a 2% chance to self heal. This is especially noticable in Kephess the Undying HM where our self heal helps to offset the extra damage we take from lower K/E mitigation.

When you say that it will push Shadows/Assassins further at being the best against Force and Tech and then state that you'll lose most of the survivability in fights like Kephess which imply Force and Tech, you contradict yourself.

Whatever, like I said later, it was assuming that Tanks will someday have the right to defend Force and Tech with their stats. If the stats were to work against these attacks, a Juggernaut maxxing his mitigation/avoidance will have roughly the same percentages as an Assassin who maxxes his HP, whatever the attack type is. The only difference will be that one will have armor and mitigation mechanics while the other one has healing. Basically it would be the same situation that we have now. So it's not a big deal. Assassins would not be so much better tanks unless the percentage of healing provided is too big. The 2% I proposed may be too much, but it can be 0.5% or 1%, or a set value, or a value that changes depending on Willpower. As long as all the healing components roughly make up for the lack of mitigation on incoming damage when comparing to Juggs and PT, it's good.

In theory, yes.

In practice? Some of it will be overhealing, and it's just not as reliable and predictable as standard mitigation relics.

And some, if not quite a bit, of the absorb proc could be completely useless. The DG healing relic is amazing and adds quite a bit to your self healing. Run MoX and raid with it, watch how much healing it does.

In theory, yes.

In practice? Some of it will be overhealing, and it's just not as reliable and predictable as standard mitigation relics.

In practice, if you are getting significant issues with overhealing, you are either not taking enough damage to stress your own healing abilities (and relic choice is moot), your group is not taking enough damage to stress your healers and they're overhealing out of boredom (and relic choice is moot), or your healers don't know how to heal Assassins properly (and the problem is fixing your healers, not fixing your relics).

In practice, the healing relic procs nearly on CD due to Dark Charge and Force Lightning, so it's as reliable and predictable as it's going to get. Certainly more reliable and predictable than the absorb proc relic.

Nice other nice thing about a healing relic compared to a mitigation relic is that it works regardless of attack type, since it's not tied at all to an enemy attacking you. So long as you're actively tanking, it's doing its job. If you can't dodge or shield, any other secondary relic is sitting there looking pretty and giving you HP.

I know my rotation, i just would really like to see a sith assassin tank to be more about the self heals

Self-healing doesn't scale well with content. If you base the class around self-healing (not mitigation/avoidance) and Operations, you make it overpowered in solo/small-scale groups. Likewise, balanced around self-healing in small-scale gameplay, it will be at a disadvantage in Operations, where damage values are much higher.

Currently, Tankasins are balanced around short recovery damage type-specific cooldowns and, to a lesser degree, shielding. Self-healing is just a minor bonus, that's it.

Apparently I have ****** luck or bad RNG or something. The healing relic doesn't proc all that much for me. But compared to the alternatives, it still gets it's fair share of use from me. About the only fight I swap it out on is on Keph.

It procs off of Combat Technique heals IIRC as well, you must have terrible RNG for it not to be decent. It's pretty much 10% minimum of my self healing over the course of a fight generally.

Get the Dread Guard healing relic. It works wonders as a Shadow/Assassin tank and is our best relic overall.

This.

My HPS have gone from around 200hps to around 300-350hps which is quite alot more healing again as it is a proc it will be different from fight to fight but it is a very nice boost to your general survival

UPDATE: last night we decided to mess with DT @10 stacks and after looking at those logs.... The healing relic was sitting at just over 12% of my heals. So apparently I just haven't paid enough attention to it or it's proc'ing more than the buff bar graphic would suggest. 12% is pretty damn good and looks to be on par with what others are saying.

This just proves that the only issue was I need to quit slacking on my log reviews.

RNG is still a ***** though:p

UPDATE: last night we decided to mess with DT @10 stacks and after looking at those logs.... The healing relic was sitting at just over 12% of my heals. So apparently I just haven't paid enough attention to it or it's proc'ing more than the buff bar graphic would suggest. 12% is pretty damn good and looks to be on par with what others are saying.

This just proves that the only issue was I need to quit slacking on my log reviews.

RNG is still a ***** though:p

Truth.

The animation frequently fails to play, but it nearly always procs to the CD.

And whilst the HPS it provides isn't *massive*, if compared to DTPS, it has more impact than any other relic it could be replaced with.

And most importantly of all, Assassins need to not slack on log reviews! We have the most reliance on active mitigation. We have the most reliance on self-healing. Figuring out what we're doing wrong or could do more right on both fronts to reduce HPS requirements is part of our job as tanks.

In my opinion Assassin Tanks should be focused more around self healing than basic forms of mitigation, so taking a nerf in other aspects in trade for a healing buff would be great i think

It would probably be fine for pve, but horribly OP for pvp, like 6-8 month ago.

Tanking sin are doing fine in good hands.

The only thing I think DC needs is the heal needs to be a percent.

In the next tier or two of gear the tiny heal it gives now will be obsolete. So now or later it'll have to be adjusted

In my opinion the healing provided by dark charge is absolutely pathetic:mad:.. i have a few ideas for some changes.

 

1). Increase the healing it provides by 300%.

 

2). Remove the cooldown on the effect.

 

3). Change it so that instead of it healing a set amount it now heals you for 3% of your maximum health.

 

4). Change it so that it now heals for 2% of all damage you deal for 2 seconds every 6 seconds.

 

5). Change the talent Swelling Shadows so that it now increases healing provided by dark charge by 150/300%.

 

 

Well those are my ideas for it, some may be overpowered but i do believe they need to make one of the changes above.

 

What's your thoughts on this idea? or do you have any ideas of your own?

Dude...Dark charge have been nerfed in the past because it was too strong and It was not the half of the buff you ask. The nerf was needed at this time and Dark charge is fine.

I'm sorry but the problem is not Dark charge. The problem is behing the keyboard. I'm an assassin and the nerf we got on dark charge in the past was needed.

If its a troll 8/10