He lost to Obi/Starkiller/Luke.When he was fighting luke he dident even get hurt.He just got tired from blocking lol.He always feared palpatine.He was always someones pawn.Never the master.If he ever went to the Old Republic the other sith would look down on the week minded fool.He had the potential to be verry strong but after he lost a few limbs and with that lots of his Midclorians in the fight with Obi he just went down hill.So pplz stop listening to the TV and saying Vader is awsome.Hes a PWN/Second rate fighter/Crying *****.If you like this in a villan then sure i guess.Ill stck with Bane/Revan.TY

Bane was killed by his female apprentice. Not so baller. Though extended universe makes vader look like a failure.

I can't take anyone seriously who can't use spaces between sentences.

I can't take anyone seriously who can't use spaces between sentences.

 

This.

I can't take anyone seriously who can't use spaces between sentences.

 

I can't take anyone serious who wants a furry race as a playable race

Edited January 7, 2012 by LordRelyks

I can't take anyone serious who wants a furry race as a playable race

 

Meh, Cathar should have been in too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language

This may aid you.

But for serious. (Yes, that was done on purpose) I'm going to go with a solid "No, Vader would kick Revan's and everyone else's *** from The Old Republic hard."

Don't forget Darth Maul beat Vader with ease and Vader only one because he used an attack that damaged himself as much as Maul. Edited January 7, 2012 by Darth-Malice

he lost to obi/starkiller/luke.when he was fighting luke he dident even get hurt.he just got tired from blocking lol.he always feared palpatine.he was always someones pawn.never the master.if he ever went to the old republic the other sith would look down on the week minded fool.he had the potential to be verry strong but after he lost a few limbs and with that lots of his midclorians in the fight with obi he just went down hill.so pplz stop listening to the tv and saying vader is awsome.hes a pwn/second rate fighter/crying *****.if you like this in a villan then sure i guess.ill stck with bane/revan.ty

 

noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

Vader is the embodiment of tragedy in Star Wars so I think it's fitting that his own story is stricken with failures.

... I'm not exactly sure it I'd accept Starkiller as canon... just saying (especially if we include TFU, Shaak Ti' has been killed off 3 separate times since Grievous was made a General). But at any rate, it's best to explain this from an RPG standpoint.

 

Let's say Max Lvl is 50, which would be Palpatine, Yoda is 48, Mace Windu is 45, Obi-Wan (by Ep III) is 37. Minimum for Jedi Master is 35, Anakin was really something like a 31 and had the potential (if he lived to age 70 with all of his limbs still intact) to create a level 55. When he embraced the Dark Side, his anger added 5 Lvls automatically, making him a 36 to challenge Obi-Wan, and did a very good job at it, but his arrogance got ahead of his judgement, and he paid dearly.

 

Now being entirely reliant on robotics just to stay alive, Anakin drops to a Lvl 15, with a +5 Anger bonus to give an even Lvl 20. Palpatine has now lost a huge part of his investment, but since he's killed off all the Force Users that were above Lvl 0, there's no reason to worry.

 

In comes Luke, who, since he's the offspring of a Jedi (according to Original SW Lore), has the potential to become MUCH more powerful than his father's own potential, and at a much faster rate, basically creating a Lvl 60 within the time it takes a normal Jedi to reach Lvl 30 (considering Anakin advanced so quickly, and was expected to continue that trait before his accident)... provided he receives the proper training. Thus Palpatine has legitimate concerns that "he could destroy us". In the event of not "practicing", Obi-Wan has dropped to a Lvl 18, and Palpatine to Lvl 35 by 0 BBY.

 

So the first Luke vs Vader duel, Luke is Lvl 12, facing off a Lvl 20 bc Vader believes by a display of power, and backing Luke into a corner, that his son will embrace the Dark Side.

Luke escapes however, and spends a year training to become a full-fledged Jedi at Lvl 15, with an added Lvl in Jabba's Palace. In reflection of Luke's confident words that Vader can return to the Light Side, his Anger Bonus is halved, dropping him to Lvl 18; while Luke's kindled Anger Bonus at the prospect of Leia turning to the Dark Side pushes him to Lvl 21 (16 + 5) and easily defeats Vader.

 

When Vader turns on Palpatine, he obviously succeeds his Strength-check (those servo motors) and his Compassion/Determination Bonus allows him to Crit on his Will-save, thus he's able to toss Palpatine down the Abyss.

 

But yes, in a Revan vs Vader match up, Revan is definitely a Lvl 40 by the time he faces Malak at the end of KotOR, (which is also pretty much where he was when Bastilla erased his memory) so he would have smoked Vader hands down.

I'm afraid, dear OP, that I fail to find anything compelling in your listed statements and therefore am left with no recourse but to dismiss them as just a poorly typed subjective opinion of a matter that lacks what must have been exhaustive analysis of the situation.

 

To put this in vernacular I am more sure you are to understand:

 

Cool story, bro. ob

As much as I hate saying this, Vader was seriously OP'ed during the prequels as Anakin but then they nerfed him as Vader. So I vote, Anakin: yes, Vader: no

... I'm not exactly sure it I'd accept Starkiller as canon... just saying (especially if we include TFU, Shaak Ti' has been killed off 3 separate times since Grievous was made a General). But at any rate, it's best to explain this from an RPG standpoint.

 

Let's say Max Lvl is 50, which would be Palpatine, Yoda is 48, Mace Windu is 45, Obi-Wan (by Ep III) is 37. Minimum for Jedi Master is 35, Anakin was really something like a 31 and had the potential (if he lived to age 70 with all of his limbs still intact) to create a level 55. When he embraced the Dark Side, his anger added 5 Lvls automatically, making him a 36 to challenge Obi-Wan, and did a very good job at it, but his arrogance got ahead of his judgement, and he paid dearly.

 

Now being entirely reliant on robotics just to stay alive, Anakin drops to a Lvl 15, with a +5 Anger bonus to give an even Lvl 20. Palpatine has now lost a huge part of his investment, but since he's killed off all the Force Users that were above Lvl 0, there's no reason to worry.

 

In comes Luke, who, since he's the offspring of a Jedi (according to Original SW Lore), has the potential to become MUCH more powerful than his father's own potential, and at a much faster rate, basically creating a Lvl 60 within the time it takes a normal Jedi to reach Lvl 30 (considering Anakin advanced so quickly, and was expected to continue that trait before his accident)... provided he receives the proper training. Thus Palpatine has legitimate concerns that "he could destroy us". In the event of not "practicing", Obi-Wan has dropped to a Lvl 18, and Palpatine to Lvl 35 by 0 BBY.

 

So the first Luke vs Vader duel, Luke is Lvl 12, facing off a Lvl 20 bc Vader believes by a display of power, and backing Luke into a corner, that his son will embrace the Dark Side.

Luke escapes however, and spends a year training to become a full-fledged Jedi at Lvl 15, with an added Lvl in Jabba's Palace. In reflection of Luke's confident words that Vader can return to the Light Side, his Anger Bonus is halved, dropping him to Lvl 18; while Luke's kindled Anger Bonus at the prospect of Leia turning to the Dark Side pushes him to Lvl 21 (16 + 5) and easily defeats Vader.

 

When Vader turns on Palpatine, he obviously succeeds his Strength-check (those servo motors) and his Compassion/Determination Bonus allows him to Crit on his Will-save, thus he's able to toss Palpatine down the Abyss.

 

But yes, in a Revan vs Vader match up, Revan is definitely a Lvl 40 by the time he faces Malak at the end of KotOR, (which is also pretty much where he was when Bastilla erased his memory) so he would have smoked Vader hands down.

 

 

Best descriptive post I have seen in ages!

I will let someone else answer this for me.

 

 

Sources? force unleashed. He upgraded his suit to become resistant to force lightning. As for his combat abilities? I'll provide quotes. Not to mention, one I don't have access to, is when he fought 8 jedi and managed to murder nearly all of them. Destroyed a jedi master among those 8 without his lightsaber.

 

For him getting over his suit's weaknesses in rise of lord vader? I'll find those quotes for you. In the meantime. It's been stated by Lucas in the commentary that Vader is 80% as strong as Sidious. Here is a quote from Rise of Lord vader. Paper back novel page 319-320.

 

"Now that Vader had begun to tap deeply into the power of the dark side, his true apprenticeship can begin."

 

"More important, by the time Vader was capable of becoming a risk to his mastery, Sidious would be fully conversant with the secrets Plagueis had spent a lifetime seeking - the power over life and death. There would be no need to fear Vader. No need to have an apprentice other than to honor the tradition Darth Bane had resurrected a millenium earlier."

 

Right here it shows that currently Sidious fears Vader. That he's a threat to his mastery of the dark side. Just prior the book was talking about Sidious views on the rule of two and how he remembered when he killed his master. Vader is a threat to him. He's THAT powerful but Sidious feels in the future. He won't be. He'll become so powerful that there wouldn't be a need for another apprentice. That time hasn't come yet. First it states he's becoming more powerful now that he's finally tapping deep into the dark side and then it states in the future he won't need to fear him.

 

 

"Time and again the two Jedi attempted to alter their style, but Vader had an answer for every lunge, parry and riposte. His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels, and his moves were crisp and unpredictable. In addition, his remarkable foresight allowed him to anticipate the Jedi strategies and maneuvers, his blade always one step ahead of theirs, notwithstanding the two-handed grip he employed."

 

"She felt as if she were fighting a droid, although a droid programmed to counter all her best stratagems."

 

"Calling on the Force, Starstone fell on him in a fury, striking wildly and repeatedly, and with anger. Moments into her attack she understood that Vader was merely allowing her to vent, as the Temple's swordmaster had often done with his students, allowing them to believe that they were driving him back, when in fact he was simply encouraging them to wear themselves out before disarming them in one rapid motion."

"He flicked his blade, precisely, economically, forcing her back and back..."

 

page 278.

 

Page 277

 

Forte and Kulka were skilled duelists, but Vader was not only faster than Starstone remembered him being on Murkhana against Master Chatak, but also more agile. He employed his awesome power to put a quick end to the fancy twirling of his opponents, who fell back against the hammering blows of Vader's bloodshine blade."

 

This was against, admittedly, two skilled duelists. He was also facing Starstone, Kulka, Forte, Jambe, Nam, and Klossi. None of them could match him. Against Roan Shryne, he slashed at his legs at one point and Vader leapt over his blow, twisted in the air, and landed behind him.

 

From force unleashed..

 

The apprentice crouched facedown in the snow, surrounded by rubble. His breath came in agonized, short gasps, but he was grateful for each one. He should be dead. That blow should have killed anyone. The fact that he was breathing testified to the one mistake his Master had done.

He had been rebuilt tougher than before.

 

Vader casually tossed him toward the icy cliff.

 

He though he was ready -and so the sheer severity of the opening blow took him by surprise.

A simple double stroke, up then down, it contained enough power to jar his wrist and shoulders and very nearly disarm him completely. The collision of their lightsabers was blinding. He staggered backward and found himself at the center of a Telekinetic storm. His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides...

 

Darth Vader fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a killing stroke. His intention was lethal. All he needed was one slip, one tiny gap in his opponent's defenses.

The apprentice vowed not to give him one...

 

The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near...

 

Reaching out with his left hand, he blasted his Master with Sith Lightning. That broke the momentum of the furious onslaught, enabling him to stand and catch his breath. [...] The Dark Lord was instantly on his feet...

 

He beat back the telekinetic attack with one of his own, shoving his Master in the chest with the Force of a small explosion, throwing Darth Vader backward across the room.

For all his size and occasional clumsiness, the Dark Lord was sure on his feet. He landed upright and launched himself back into the fray.

 

Note that the apprentice had defeated multiple Jedi masters himself, was a power house in the force, and was extremely agile. If you want more sources. Go ahead. But it's obvious. Vader was by far one of the most powerful Sith. Even in his suit. Even Sidious regarded him as a threat.

 

Vader is far stronger than people think, his portrayal was limited by the technology of the 1970s

 

Vader will go toe to toe with just about any sith lord there is

Edited January 7, 2012 by darth_freefall

GL has stated that Vader, after being put in the suit, was about 80% of Palpatine's power. Palpatine, also stated by GL, is the strongest Sith lord to have ever lived. Do the math

 

Had he not been put in the suit, he would have been twice as strong as Palpatine...once again, as stated by Lucas.

 

 

In regards to The Force Unleashed...I'm pretty sure as far as Shaak Ti's death goes, her death in TFU is canon. It's described in her Wookieepedia page as her actual death. Lucas has a HUGE part in TFU, in fact, the only SW video game he ever really had a part in. It is canon and is what happened between eps 3 and 4. As far as her other death scenes, wasn't the ep 3 one a deleted scene? I don't know the others, if anyone could explain...

Edited January 7, 2012 by xeviltoasterx

... I'm not exactly sure it I'd accept Starkiller as canon... just saying (especially if we include TFU, Shaak Ti' has been killed off 3 separate times since Grievous was made a General). But at any rate, it's best to explain this from an RPG standpoint.

 

Let's say Max Lvl is 50, which would be Palpatine, Yoda is 48, Mace Windu is 45, Obi-Wan (by Ep III) is 37. Minimum for Jedi Master is 35, Anakin was really something like a 31 and had the potential (if he lived to age 70 with all of his limbs still intact) to create a level 55. When he embraced the Dark Side, his anger added 5 Lvls automatically, making him a 36 to challenge Obi-Wan, and did a very good job at it, but his arrogance got ahead of his judgement, and he paid dearly.

 

Now being entirely reliant on robotics just to stay alive, Anakin drops to a Lvl 15, with a +5 Anger bonus to give an even Lvl 20. Palpatine has now lost a huge part of his investment, but since he's killed off all the Force Users that were above Lvl 0, there's no reason to worry.

 

In comes Luke, who, since he's the offspring of a Jedi (according to Original SW Lore), has the potential to become MUCH more powerful than his father's own potential, and at a much faster rate, basically creating a Lvl 60 within the time it takes a normal Jedi to reach Lvl 30 (considering Anakin advanced so quickly, and was expected to continue that trait before his accident)... provided he receives the proper training. Thus Palpatine has legitimate concerns that "he could destroy us". In the event of not "practicing", Obi-Wan has dropped to a Lvl 18, and Palpatine to Lvl 35 by 0 BBY.

 

So the first Luke vs Vader duel, Luke is Lvl 12, facing off a Lvl 20 bc Vader believes by a display of power, and backing Luke into a corner, that his son will embrace the Dark Side.

Luke escapes however, and spends a year training to become a full-fledged Jedi at Lvl 15, with an added Lvl in Jabba's Palace. In reflection of Luke's confident words that Vader can return to the Light Side, his Anger Bonus is halved, dropping him to Lvl 18; while Luke's kindled Anger Bonus at the prospect of Leia turning to the Dark Side pushes him to Lvl 21 (16 + 5) and easily defeats Vader.

 

When Vader turns on Palpatine, he obviously succeeds his Strength-check (those servo motors) and his Compassion/Determination Bonus allows him to Crit on his Will-save, thus he's able to toss Palpatine down the Abyss.

 

But yes, in a Revan vs Vader match up, Revan is definitely a Lvl 40 by the time he faces Malak at the end of KotOR, (which is also pretty much where he was when Bastilla erased his memory) so he would have smoked Vader hands down.

 

It was actually 4 years that Luke trained till ROTJ.

... I'm not exactly sure it I'd accept Starkiller as canon... just saying (especially if we include TFU, Shaak Ti' has been killed off 3 separate times since Grievous was made a General). But at any rate, it's best to explain this from an RPG standpoint.

 

Let's say Max Lvl is 50, which would be Palpatine, Yoda is 48, Mace Windu is 45, Obi-Wan (by Ep III) is 37. Minimum for Jedi Master is 35, Anakin was really something like a 31 and had the potential (if he lived to age 70 with all of his limbs still intact) to create a level 55. When he embraced the Dark Side, his anger added 5 Lvls automatically, making him a 36 to challenge Obi-Wan, and did a very good job at it, but his arrogance got ahead of his judgement, and he paid dearly.

 

Now being entirely reliant on robotics just to stay alive, Anakin drops to a Lvl 15, with a +5 Anger bonus to give an even Lvl 20. Palpatine has now lost a huge part of his investment, but since he's killed off all the Force Users that were above Lvl 0, there's no reason to worry.

 

In comes Luke, who, since he's the offspring of a Jedi (according to Original SW Lore), has the potential to become MUCH more powerful than his father's own potential, and at a much faster rate, basically creating a Lvl 60 within the time it takes a normal Jedi to reach Lvl 30 (considering Anakin advanced so quickly, and was expected to continue that trait before his accident)... provided he receives the proper training. Thus Palpatine has legitimate concerns that "he could destroy us". In the event of not "practicing", Obi-Wan has dropped to a Lvl 18, and Palpatine to Lvl 35 by 0 BBY.

 

So the first Luke vs Vader duel, Luke is Lvl 12, facing off a Lvl 20 bc Vader believes by a display of power, and backing Luke into a corner, that his son will embrace the Dark Side.

Luke escapes however, and spends a year training to become a full-fledged Jedi at Lvl 15, with an added Lvl in Jabba's Palace. In reflection of Luke's confident words that Vader can return to the Light Side, his Anger Bonus is halved, dropping him to Lvl 18; while Luke's kindled Anger Bonus at the prospect of Leia turning to the Dark Side pushes him to Lvl 21 (16 + 5) and easily defeats Vader.

 

When Vader turns on Palpatine, he obviously succeeds his Strength-check (those servo motors) and his Compassion/Determination Bonus allows him to Crit on his Will-save, thus he's able to toss Palpatine down the Abyss.

 

But yes, in a Revan vs Vader match up, Revan is definitely a Lvl 40 by the time he faces Malak at the end of KotOR, (which is also pretty much where he was when Bastilla erased his memory) so he would have smoked Vader hands down.

 

This post is wrong, terribly terribly wrong.

... I'm not exactly sure it I'd accept Starkiller as canon... just saying (especially if we include TFU, Shaak Ti' has been killed off 3 separate times since Grievous was made a General). But at any rate, it's best to explain this from an RPG standpoint.

 

Let's say Max Lvl is 50, which would be Palpatine, Yoda is 48, Mace Windu is 45, Obi-Wan (by Ep III) is 37. Minimum for Jedi Master is 35, Anakin was really something like a 31 and had the potential (if he lived to age 70 with all of his limbs still intact) to create a level 55. When he embraced the Dark Side, his anger added 5 Lvls automatically, making him a 36 to challenge Obi-Wan, and did a very good job at it, but his arrogance got ahead of his judgement, and he paid dearly.

 

Now being entirely reliant on robotics just to stay alive, Anakin drops to a Lvl 15, with a +5 Anger bonus to give an even Lvl 20. Palpatine has now lost a huge part of his investment, but since he's killed off all the Force Users that were above Lvl 0, there's no reason to worry.

 

In comes Luke, who, since he's the offspring of a Jedi (according to Original SW Lore), has the potential to become MUCH more powerful than his father's own potential, and at a much faster rate, basically creating a Lvl 60 within the time it takes a normal Jedi to reach Lvl 30 (considering Anakin advanced so quickly, and was expected to continue that trait before his accident)... provided he receives the proper training. Thus Palpatine has legitimate concerns that "he could destroy us". In the event of not "practicing", Obi-Wan has dropped to a Lvl 18, and Palpatine to Lvl 35 by 0 BBY.

 

So the first Luke vs Vader duel, Luke is Lvl 12, facing off a Lvl 20 bc Vader believes by a display of power, and backing Luke into a corner, that his son will embrace the Dark Side.

Luke escapes however, and spends a year training to become a full-fledged Jedi at Lvl 15, with an added Lvl in Jabba's Palace. In reflection of Luke's confident words that Vader can return to the Light Side, his Anger Bonus is halved, dropping him to Lvl 18; while Luke's kindled Anger Bonus at the prospect of Leia turning to the Dark Side pushes him to Lvl 21 (16 + 5) and easily defeats Vader.

 

When Vader turns on Palpatine, he obviously succeeds his Strength-check (those servo motors) and his Compassion/Determination Bonus allows him to Crit on his Will-save, thus he's able to toss Palpatine down the Abyss.

 

But yes, in a Revan vs Vader match up, Revan is definitely a Lvl 40 by the time he faces Malak at the end of KotOR, (which is also pretty much where he was when Bastilla erased his memory) so he would have smoked Vader hands down.

 

Starkiller is Canon. It was approved by Lucas. It's Canon unless something retcons it. If it retcons only a portion of it. The rest is still Canon. The novel is more canon than the game though.

xeviltoasterx > There were 2 deleted Shaak Ti death scenes from ROS, the first made it onto the DVD under "Deleted Scenes" (where she is killed by Grevious), but when the whole sequence of Obi-Wan and Anakin cutting through the floor was itself cut and replaced, they re-filmed her death with her trying to protect youngling Jedis during the attack on the temple (I think Anakin was actually supposed to be the one who killed her), but that was also abandoned "for timing/editing purposes". So in one movie, she was supposed to die twice.

 

Wolfninjajedi > NH is 0 BBY, ESB is 3 ABY, and ROTJ is 4 ABY according to GL's own official timeline.

xeviltoasterx > There were 2 deleted Shaak Ti death scenes from ROS, the first made it onto the DVD under "Deleted Scenes" (where she is killed by Grevious), but when the whole sequence of Obi-Wan and Anakin cutting through the floor was itself cut and replaced, they re-filmed her death with her trying to protect youngling Jedis during the attack on the temple (I think Anakin was actually supposed to be the one who killed her), but that was also abandoned "for timing/editing purposes". So in one movie, she was supposed to die twice.

 

Wolfninjajedi > NH is 0 BBY, ESB is 3 ABY, and ROTJ is 4 ABY according to GL's own official timeline.

 

Ya thats 4 years, his training started in ANH, continued in ESB, then ROTJ came up. Probably should have been more clear, I was totaling the whole time of each movie not just ROTJ for how long he trained.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

Vader is the embodiment of tragedy in Star Wars so I think it's fitting that his own story is stricken with failures.

 

This. Anakin had great potential, but basically threw it all away when he was seduced by the Dark Side and ended up being little more than Palpatine's *****.

Of all Star Wars main characters, Vader probably got the most beating, which starts when he got blasted into space by Han Solo in the first movie. I don't know the first Marvel Comics really well, but I think even in them he loses numerous duels or hast to give them up in a draw. Added to this are countless scenes when the Emperor scolds or fools him in the newer EU-Stuff. He is not a very lucky one.

xeviltoasterx > There were 2 deleted Shaak Ti death scenes from ROS, the first made it onto the DVD under "Deleted Scenes" (where she is killed by Grevious), but when the whole sequence of Obi-Wan and Anakin cutting through the floor was itself cut and replaced, they re-filmed her death with her trying to protect youngling Jedis during the attack on the temple (I think Anakin was actually supposed to be the one who killed her), but that was also abandoned "for timing/editing purposes". So in one movie, she was supposed to die twice.

 

Wolfninjajedi > NH is 0 BBY, ESB is 3 ABY, and ROTJ is 4 ABY according to GL's own official timeline.

 

But in the end she didn't die.

I'm sorry but it's cannon, you can't say that Vader isn't as powerful as so and so when George Lucas specifically said he and his decendants are the most powerful force users ever. You can say Lucas is old and crazy, but it is his story, not yours or mine or anybody elses. If he says Annakin/Vader is the most powerful force user ever in HIS world of star wars, its fact, you can't argue with him.