Oh my gods

That's certainly the raid leader's prerogative, but I think it's a poor choice. Tanks are hard enough to come by already--by only taking tanks who already know the fights you're locking new tanks out of the system. If you know that a number of your pugs are new to the place and you don't want more than two or three newbies, I can understand that. I don't think telling tanks they need to roll an alt, level to 50, gear up, and learn the fights as a healer or dps is a very good strategy long-term if you plan to pug.

Where do people come up with stuff like that? You're making stuff up and not seeing the full context of all that was said.

1. I don't really "plan to pug". That just does not sound right. Pugging is always the last resort. Sometimes it needs to be done when there is no other choice.

2. Tanks are not hard to come by. I see quite a large number of tanks spamming LFG EC every day.

3. I'm not locking any "new" tanks out. They can join guilds and work their way into guild groups (preferably, if it is up to me, by showing their skills by doing some other content first before getting into Denova)

4. Who is telling tanks to reroll dps or healer and learn the fights before going in as a tank? Where do you even come up with this kind of nonsense?

I for one would suggest anyone who wants to tank to go in and learn the fights for the first time as a tank, but I would also suggest they are better off doing that in a guild group.

And for the record, I have been in Denova with many other tanks and at least 5 of them were doing Denova (or at least some part of it) for the first time in their life when they were in the same group with me as tanks, and I had no objection to any of that, because for the most part, I had seen them in action in other operations and knew how well they performed.

(Of course it is the same story for myself. I went in for the first time to learn the fights as a tank, but the other team members trusted me to be able to do it, because they had seen me do other content).

I have no objection for taking first timers to tank Denova, but in the highly unlikely event that I had to pug a player who I have never seen before, then especially for a tank I would only take someone who actually has done it before (and done it before as a tank, not with some dps alt).

I always set higher requirements for pugs than for people I have played with together enough to know and trust their skills.

Oh my gods

 

 

Where do people come up with stuff like that? You're making stuff up and not seeing the full context of all that was said.

For someone complaining about being taken out of context, you sure didn't worry to much about trying to understand where I'm coming from. Where do "people" come up with this stuff? How about "not all people are exactly like you."

1. I don't really "plan to pug". That just does not sound right. Pugging is always the last resort. Sometimes it needs to be done when there is no other choice.

I pug. Period. I'm not interested in joining a guild because for RL reasons I can't raid regularly. This point here is really at the core of your entire... misunderstanding, I guess. If logging in with plans to pug something doesn't make sense to you, I'm not sure we have any common ground.

You could have save d a lot of typing if you had just said, "that doesn't apply to me because I rarely pug" or something. Honestly, dude, if you don't understand something, instead of throwing a hissy fit, stop and think for two seconds.

I pug.

"If you plan to pug" was replaced with "i pug" but also more importantly you are talking about pugging in 2 different meanings "raid leader inviting few pugs to join his group" and "raider joining a group as a pug".

but let's not get stuck to that either.

The main thing is.

It's pretty clear that--no offense--your view of getting groups is pretty narrow.

Well, since it is coming from you I would have to suggest that you should maybe widen your own view about getting groups.

You see:

Not all of us have the option of running with a guild.

This is again something I would consider nonsense.

For now, I'm going to have to say that everyone who plays the game enough to have time to do whole pug raids (and enough time to get geared for it first) has the option to be in a guild and do guild raids too.

Over the years in different mmo forums I have seen many people claiming that they don't have the option to run with a guild, but I have yet to see anyone give any real reason as to why they can't.

They typically give the same excuse as you do.

because for RL reasons I can't raid regularly

Well, if being able to raid regularly was an actual requirement for being in guild and joining some of its guild raids, then you would have a point there, but as a matter of fact it isn't. It maybe a requirement for some of the guilds, but just because there are some guilds that you can't join, does not mean that you can't join a guild. There are countless people who are in guilds and do raids with them irregularly. Some of them do pugs too in addition to that, but there is no reason for them to limit themselves so that pugging becomes their only option.

and in other matters

In the future I may just lie and say I've done it before

You could lie, but you may be overestimating yourself and underestimating the content you are doing.

There is a good chance you would get exposed as soon as the boss fight begins people would see that you're doing wrong, and what would lying about it then achieve for you? Get yourself swiftly kicked out of the group and start building up a reputation within the server community as a noob who lies to get into groups, possibly.

Then again in most cases there are ways by which a player can prove that they have done the content before and if lying to get in became more common and if I only wanted to take someone who has done it before, I could simply ask for such a proof.

"LFM EC come to me riding on your Aratech Fire or no invite"

How would you fake that?

"LFM EC come to me riding on your Aratech Fire or no invite"

How would you fake that?

I'd laugh at you. I don't even want in a group that thinks it needs to overgear everything with experienced players to be successful. Heck, I saw this in WoW--"PST for invite with ach link"--and I didn't join their lousy groups either. The rest of what you said isn't even worth responding to. It amounts to "I've heard a lot of people say this, but all of them are wrong and I am right." You have your reasons, of course, for thinking that the people who disagree with you are lazy or ignorant or whatever, but people always have reasons for thinking what they do.

"LFM EC come to me riding on your Aratech Fire or no invite"

How would you fake that?

Farming EC hard mode with my main and having it completed with 3 other characters I don't own a single Aratech Fire ... but when filling up for spontaneous story mode or twink runs we usually state that gear and experience is not optional. This also means that either you're a twink of someone we know or you'll have to be in at least full Rakata to be taken into EC story mode ... this might seem counterproductive, but in the end it pays for all members of the raid.

We're not looking to progress through the raid, but blaze through it in as little time as possible for BH tokens.

This is also true for Flashpoints where even some that struggle to keep up with the pace thank me and complement the group on the run ... it's a really common mindset to play to get things done and have fun because of it.

Farming EC hard mode with my main and having it completed with 3 other characters I don't own a single Aratech Fire ... but when filling up for spontaneous story mode or twink runs we usually state that gear and experience is not optional. This also means that either you're a twink of someone we know or you'll have to be in at least full Rakata to be taken into EC story mode ... this might seem counterproductive, but in the end it pays for all members of the raid.

We're not looking to progress through the raid, but blaze through it in as little time as possible for BH tokens.

This is also true for Flashpoints where even some that struggle to keep up with the pace thank me and complement the group on the run ... it's a really common mindset to play to get things done and have fun because of it.

Yeah, I don't have much to say about how guilds handle these things internally. My point originally was just that if you intend to pug regularly--and a lot of people do on my server--requiring everyone or particularly a single role to already have experience and outgear the place is bad for the server, long-term.

I agree about having fun getting things done; it's one of the things I appreciate about pugs. I often prefer a full pug to a partial guild run because a lot of times the guild members cut each other slack , goof off, take breaks and do other things that slow things down.

Our guild policy is like this.

EV/KP SM: No gear requirement, anything is fine. (as long as a tank is able to actually tank something)

EV/KP HM: At least in level 51 mods, we carry 1-2 people at a time to gear up alts/newbies

EC SM: Be in mostly rakata+, some columi is alright

EV/KP NMM: Rakata

EC HM: Rakata/BH

As for when we bring pug members, we don't care if they've done it before or not, we will teach fights. We just expect them to be willing to do things our way and be geared around the minimum (or better of course) for the content.

I should clarify though, it's not so much about what you wear atm, but your stats. If you're in tionese but augmented well enough to do something harder it's all good.

I Pugged EC story mode in 100% columi I had augmented every piece. I had buffed and stimmed 24k hps with 38% shield chance 36% shield absorb 28% defense 30% damage reduction these numbers are approx... except for the HPs.

The issue I had was not survivability it was DPS the first go round. 2 days later I went in with a different group and had no issues with toth and zorn. I even got a rakata chest piece.

Once you make friends with guilds they remember your name. They will come calling from time to time. Now my shadow tank isnt my main my trooper is so ONLY my trooper gets to goto 16man HM with my guild. Because of this I am forced to pug with my Tank. This is because I cant commit to tank 100% of the time for my guild. I like to play all the classes. I get bored to quickly. This is why i got lvl 50 Trooper shadow sage gunslinger sentinal and sniper. I am finding it tough to get rakata on all of them. My guild only raids 2 nights a week and as i said its mains only. They dont even do anything else but 16 man ECHM and nightmare pilgrim. Seems they have burned themselves out on all the content.

Anyways it can be tanked in all columi augmented in story mode easily....NO PVP GEAR THOUGH The armorings arent as good IMO. I would rather take you through ev/kp HMs till you were all columi / rakata before going to ec story. Especially since you can get all columi in one week in FPs with group finder. People wanna see you putting in the effort to gear your self at least that far anyway before doing denova...