some marauder defensive CDs have to be playable under cc, like new sorcerer bubble.

CACs are the most cc, bump, roots classes. and in classic warzone, it's worst and worst because of bioware's will to focus only on equality in arenas (where maras are better, to be honest).

so yes, at least, give undying rage castable under cc or change it like he was before.

Some ideas, but I think they miss the weak spot of the marauder and would also massively affect pve.

 

So what if they affect PvE? Mara's are already under-performing as Carnage and Rage, and the Anni changes wouldnt be too earthshattering for PvE

 

Also the whole package sounds like a total carnage spec buff, while that is actually the better one right now.

 

Yes. Yes it is, you want to know why? BECAUSE BIOWARE MADE THE SPEC TOTAL CRAP AFTER 2.0... Carnage after 2.0 was shot to **** because A. No 100% Auto-Crit on FS that's the ONLY thing that could have been left alone, and the spec would be perfectly fine for me, but with the auto-crit being tied to Execute, on it's crappy 45% RNG ********, i cant play the spec with any reasonable DPS anymore. and with these new changes instead of one long Burst window, we would have 2 shorter Burst windows consisting of this

 

Massacre (Execute Proc) > Gore > Force Scream > Massacre (Execute Proc) > Massacre (Gore Proc) > Gore > Vicious Throw

 

These shorter burst windows would reduce CC suceptability, and also because with my changes making VT boosted by Execute our damage would go up by about 10% or so, putting us more on par with the other classes and their newer changes.

 

The real problem is 'getting out of cc'. Taking massive loads of damage is for Juggs and others. But a Melee that is not highly mobile AND can't take a beating is just asking for it! (imho)

 

I do agree to an extent. getting out of CC is a slight problem for Marauders, and i think that something should be done about it. I would think that possibly in our PvP set bonus we could get say, 30s off the CD of our CC breaker?

 

Replies in Bold

Why bioware hates mara ?

I think BW hates IMPS in General. I voiced my Opinion on that in many of threads already so, I'll save you that.

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I see. I don't play PvE and really REALLY don't give anything about parses. Just experience from doing too much raidleading in WoW I guess. Maybe I've caught an allergy. XD

And while I like the pvp set idea, I seriously doubt that a mere 'less CD on CC breaker' would be any good in a time of 'instantly applied spammable slows'. They would not change the mara from being a melee with just one gapcloser and stundeath.

Stun (now you have the choice: die or break it? if you die, ok - if you break it there's plenty of free resolvebar for a second stun and death. True, this only happens ... every now and then. But everytime you meet someone who can stun and knows what he's doing you die.

As for pve buffs to damage... as mentioned, I have no idea. I can only say 'It's enough to do dailies' - and I don't even do those regularly.

some marauder defensive CDs have to be playable under cc, like new sorcerer bubble.

 

CACs are the most cc, bump, roots classes. and in classic warzone, it's worst and worst because of bioware's will to focus only on equality in arenas (where maras are better, to be honest).

 

so yes, at least, give undying rage castable under cc or change it like he was before.

Marauder still has incredibly good DCD's. GBTF should have never been changed (especially after the ED change for juggs....kinda hypocritical) but overall marauder still has very strong DCD's. The real issue is the games resolve system that sorely needs a massive overhaul, especially with how it works against slows and roots. This issue is massively expanded on in huttball. Last night I literally only moved about 7 or 8 steps in about two minutes (I was able to pop ED twice) while carrying the ball. I had resolve filled 3 times but was constantly rooted over and over again. Yes had my teammates not been braindead I probably could of passed forward or interceded but thats beside the point. Either way, resolve sucks.

I had resolve filled 3 times but was constantly rooted over and over again. ... Either way, resolve sucks.

I believe you... because I've had this happen to me so often I now see that I pass the ball like a hot potatoe.

There NEEDS to be something done about this whole root&slow not affecting resolve. OR something that elevates the problem. And considering how playing mara is already crammed with buff watching: PLEASE don't let it be another proc.

I believe you... because I've had this happen to me so often I now see that I pass the ball like a hot potatoe.

 

There NEEDS to be something done about this whole root&slow not affecting resolve. OR something that elevates the problem. And considering how playing mara is already crammed with buff watching: PLEASE don't let it be another proc.

The main thing is that I understand that roots and slows are a core part of many specs, but the real issue is when it gets stacked. I understand the reasons behind allowing roots to work when full resolved, but there needs to be some kind of diminishing returns. Taking one step then immediately being rooted again and repeating this 4 or 5 times is really silly.

What can I say? I spec rage to get 10m obliterate.

So: "yes" "/agree" or "+1" to anything against roots and slows.

What can I say? I spec rage to get 10m obliterate.

 

So: "yes" "/agree" or "+1" to anything against roots and slows.

Ya I still find myself rolling rage when solo queuing just because of obliterate even though I enjoy annihilation way more.

I think BW hates IMPS in General. I voiced my Opinion on that in many of threads already so, I'll save you that.

I think dev don't play to their game, or are stupide, distants are more ope than cac, it's the simply true we are every time, roots, bump, cc, we are one of the only class we can't auto heal, just one anti cc. We can't play our class simply in war zone. one time of 2 we can dead on cc, your resolv are big ****..

So dev .... are very bad, you can sleep the night with your **** works ? And swtor pvp would be one of the best, lol

/sarcasm

I think it is the best solution to assault the devs who were clearly just capable of delivering one of the cooles MMORPGS in existance. How fail is it, if one of the suprisingly diverse classes in this game actually has a problem with roots. What with nothing ever changing and such.

/sarcasm

Seriously. Yes, it's bad as a mara. I don't know if "dying in stunlock" or "being rooted|slowed forever" is the worse part of it. But as long as it gets mentioned, I think changes will come. As sure as winter is coming!

All good Suggestions keep them coming:

* in regards to PVP*

In regards to Carnage pre 2.0 and now with the RNG system i find the spec much more fun to play with the RNG however, becoming rage starved is frustrating and possible changes would be to add slight changes to refund rage at a more reliable rate:

For example make Dual Saber Throw grant 2-3 rage. Blood frenzy refund 3 rage ( not sure how this would affect PVE)

Berserk or Pred grant 3-4 rage

I do also like the idea of the Slaughter proc also increasing the Crit change of VS by 15%

From a PVP perspective though the damage of carnage isn't really the issue if played well you will be able to put out the burst as the class is intended to do, the main issue is the survivalibility

I DONT think having Force Camo purge Dot's every 45 seconds is OP at all.... Dodge greatly out ways this purposed fix. I DO think that Force Camo or UD rage need to be usable while stunned, this is the largest Issue with Mara's in terms or survival. If Purging Dots via camo is too much( which i really think its not): Make Force Camo Usable while stunned and Revert UD how it previously was. This easy fix alone will greatly improve the class Survivabilty wise. IMO the 2 fixed i would like to see would have Force Camo Purge Dots and UD be usable while stunned, lower its Duration by a second , and revert the mechanic to how it previously was

People May claim *** no thats way to OP but to put it in perspective, if someone were to purpose sages receiving a bubble absorbing about 15k after immunity and increasing TkT dmage by 25% on dotted target people would scream OP... or Even PTS gain an immunity to movement impairing effects for 8 seconds every 30 seconds and receiving life regen up to 35% and reducing damage by whatever it is for the duration. And then there are juggs LAWL heal to full while being attacked for 10 seconds... These are just a few examples and some of these classes needed these buffs, just as Maras need a buff now.

Appreciate all the feedback keep it coming

After last night I can only say: The problem really is stun+mezz und perma-slow+root.

Especially frustrating are the 2x stun until whitebar while your ccbreak is on cooldown (mostly it is). You die. Simple as that. And I doubt there is a way to kill a sniper or sorc as a sent/mara. Not if on equal terms and he/she knows what she's doing and don't senselessly whitebar you.

So, while difficult to balance, I say the mara DESPERATELY needs something to give him a chance against stuns & roots.

Here is another two:

• Every hit while stunned or rooted loweres the cooldown of Force Camouflage by 3 seconds.
  
• Cloak of Pain is now usable while stunned & mezzed.
  

Or something more... immersive:

• [Kolto-Injection] Medkits and Adrenals can be used while stunned only triggering a 12 second cooldown.
  

After last night I can only say: The problem really is stun+mezz und perma-slow+root.

 

Especially frustrating are the 2x stun until whitebar while your ccbreak is on cooldown (mostly it is). You die. Simple as that. And I doubt there is a way to kill a sniper or sorc as a sent/mara. Not if on equal terms and he/she knows what she's doing and don't senselessly whitebar you.

 

So, while difficult to balance, I say the mara DESPERATELY needs something to give him a chance against stuns & roots.

 

Here is another two:

• Every hit while stunned or rooted loweres the cooldown of Force Camouflage by 3 seconds.
  
• Cloak of Pain is now usable while stunned & mezzed.
  

Or something more... immersive:

• [Kolto-Injection] Medkits and Adrenals can be used while stunned only triggering a 12 second cooldown.
  

+1

every one say that but cartel market is more important

After last night I can only say: The problem really is stun+mezz und perma-slow+root.

 

Especially frustrating are the 2x stun until whitebar while your ccbreak is on cooldown (mostly it is). You die. Simple as that. And I doubt there is a way to kill a sniper or sorc as a sent/mara. Not if on equal terms and he/she knows what she's doing and don't senselessly whitebar you.

 

So, while difficult to balance, I say the mara DESPERATELY needs something to give him a chance against stuns & roots.

 

Here is another two:

• Every hit while stunned or rooted loweres the cooldown of Force Camouflage by 3 seconds.
  
• Cloak of Pain is now usable while stunned & mezzed.
  

Or something more... immersive:

• [Kolto-Injection] Medkits and Adrenals can be used while stunned only triggering a 12 second cooldown.
  

I really like the idea of cloak of pain being useable while stunned/mezzed. Concerning the first idea, I'm not sure that it would solve anything. Part of the problem, for me at least, is if I get stunned without any defenses up, I'm dead. And dead quickly I might add. Lowering the cooldown of force camo will help me get out of sticky situations more often but it won't help me pull through a hard stun which is the main problem right now. I honestly think I'm able to use force camo enough as it is.

What about adding something relatively low in one of the skill trees like increased damage reduction while stunned? I think powertechs (maybe?) have something like that. I also fully support the revert of undying rage to take the health cost at the beginning of the ability.

Lowering the cooldown of force camo will help me get out of sticky situations more often but it won't help me pull through a hard stun which is the main problem right now. I honestly think I'm able to use force camo enough as it is.

 

What about adding something relatively low in one of the skill trees like increased damage reduction while stunned? I think powertechs (maybe?) have something like that. I also fully support the revert of undying rage to take the health cost at the beginning of the ability.

I didn't plan that part ot be a free card out of every hard stun. Just make it more likely to have the camo ready IF you survive.

And I most certainly don't think that the damage reduction when stunned matches the marauder class. It's not the tough tank like PT or a Jugg and shouldn't feel or play like one.

I thought about what COULD work and I came up with this:

• Kolto-Injection (passive) Adrenals, Stims and Medpacks usable when stunned.
  
• Force Camouflage always purges movement impairing effects
  
• Fleetfooted/Unbound 1.5/3 seconds of immunity to movement-impairs
  
• Zaelous Ward / Blood Ward no longer heals on hit/1.5 but increses runspeed by 5%/10% for 20 seconds stack up to 5 times.
  

Obviously the aim is to make the Sent/Mara more elusive and less.... stationary. As it is right now, we move less than any sniper.

Well, as a full time marauder since Beta i would like to chime in a little bit if thats ok.

All of my suggestions come from excessive amounts of pvp'ing and thats really all my expertice on the matter.

As of now, with all the buffs been granted to different classes the marauder class feels a bit under par.

The dmg potential is great in anni and carnage however Rage is in a bad position imo. it might offer great spike, but without the AOE the whole spec feels broken and unrewarding. Some people like it though and the spec was too good when full AOE.

Annihilation: Damagewise this spec performs very well, i would maybe say too well even, however one starts to notice the problems with the spec when you face competent competition, who will stun, kb and especially use snares a lot. Snares and roots are a gigantic problem for annihilation and when you don't even have rootbreak on camo it can be a total pain. The whole spec lacks something to keep things going, to be versatile. Marauders are way too squishy these days to be rooted and snared for too long.

Carnage: Damagewise it performs how i feel the spec should perform, however every class and spec has damagepotential at the start of entering combat and therefore can feel very unrewarding when one gets the primary focus of the enemy and can't even get rage before popping pretty much every DCD. This is just mildly annoying but can be a huge problem in games where its a tight race for the kills and its all about dishing out as much as possible when arriving back at the battlefield.

Rage: This spec performs well even without the AOE damagewise, however the "awesome" spike damage with smash everyone keeps talking about makes me cringe. That sentiment might have been true a few patches ago but with all the buffs around the "great" spike burst of smash is not that great and many classes and specs have the same or better equivalent. This and also the general feeling i get from playing the spec makes it very unrewarding but functional.

The fix:

Force camo can now be used while stunned (not mezzed) and will grant immunity from movement impairing effects during the duration, additionally getting stunned or rooted reduces the cooldown of force camo by 1.5 seconds (passive or 1st row of any given tree)

Undying rage is removed (who cares, useless DCD anyway)

Precisely how many seconds the cooldown should be reduced can be discussed and this is just a suggestion that I very much would like to see.

Since Anni is a dot spec, this change i feel will be enough for the spec to work better. Carnage didn't have any problem with snares but the class needed something in general to be more elusive and functional.

With these changes every spec will get the (imo) deserved fast and agile feel the class need without giving it a boringly OP DCD like juggs. It also fits our class imo, we shouldn't be super tanky, juggs can have that, but atleast give us something so that we can function properly.

Also i would like to add that i feel they should do something about carnage and the RNG of it. It needs to be more consistent imo. QoL is needed for carnage.

What other classes have a 100% autocrit ability (lets take aoe reduction out of this and excluding jug before any smartness ) that hits hard and as reliably as smash...? Other class buffs are irrelevent its still the most reliable spike burst dmg in the game

I think all 3 specs are in a pretty good place.

What other classes have a 100% autocrit ability (lets take aoe reduction out of this and excluding jug before any smartness ) that hits hard and as reliably as smash...? Other class buffs are irrelevent its still the most reliable spike dmg in the game

 

I think all 3 specs are in a pretty good place.

Yea people like to throw around 100 % autocrit and think superawesome. There are several classes and abilitys taht hit just as hard or harder, not as reliably or as often granted.

If you wanted a spesific class ill give you recklessness and assassins for instance ? which not only have 1 crit but 3. and yes they are pretty reliable.

Other classes buffs are not irrelevant, thats is one of the most ignorant statements i've heard. so if everyone hits twice as hard as a marauder its not relevant, just keep marauders as is ? please think before you write lol.

Also, if you read more carefully i said that every spec performs well (not exact wording but yea), except that i feel Rage is very unrewarding and Carnage needs a QoL change. I even stated taht anni might be too good.

You are entitled to your opinion that marauders are fine as is and i agree that its not a terrible class I love my marauder and I only (90% of the time) play this class and therefore i naturally recognize a few things that will improve the current state of the game.

I personally think its not too much to ask. the reducing of cooldown can be cut to level it out, but all in all this change for removal of UR is not unwaranted.

Just my opinion ofc and if you had something more to discuss bring it on.

Yea people like to throw around 100 % autocrit and think superawesome. There are several classes and abilitys taht hit just as hard or harder, not as reliably or as often granted.

If you wanted a spesific class ill give you recklessness and assassins for instance ? which not only have 1 crit but 3. and yes they are pretty reliable.

 

Other classes buffs are not irrelevant, thats is one of the most ignorant statements i've heard. so if everyone hits twice as hard as a marauder its not relevant, just keep marauders as is ? please think before you write lol.

 

Also, if you read more carefully i said that every spec performs well (not exact wording but yea), except that i feel Rage is very unrewarding and Carnage needs a QoL change. I even stated taht anni might be too good.

 

You are entitled to your opinion that marauders are fine as is and i agree that its not a terrible class I love my marauder and I only (90% of the time) play this class and therefore i naturally recognize a few things that will improve the current state of the game.

 

I personally think its not too much to ask. the reducing of cooldown can be cut to level it out, but all in all this change for removal of UR is not unwaranted.

 

Just my opinion ofc and if you had something more to discuss bring it on.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I cannot however, get behind a complete removal of undying rage. As of right now I only use it to prolong my death for an additional 4 seconds which I'll admit is less than ideal. However, I'd rather have those 4 seconds of near immunity compared with nothing. I also think with a slight rework it could become a very useful defensive cooldown. A lot of great ideas for that have already been brought up on this thread. What I'm getting at is what do you think we should get in return for a complete removal of an iconic marauder ability?

 

 

Annihilation: Damagewise this spec performs very well, i would maybe say too well even, however one starts to notice the problems with the spec when you face competent competition, who will stun, kb and especially use snares a lot. Snares and roots are a gigantic problem for annihilation and when you don't even have rootbreak on camo it can be a total pain. The whole spec lacks something to keep things going, to be versatile. Marauders are way too squishy these days to be rooted and snared for too long.

 

Anni performs fine in PvP for me, slows are put an impunity if you have Trancendence up, and Force Camo can help too. Roots, yes those are a problem. i say we add to Focused Leap the ability to use Force Leap while rooted that would fix that issue.

 

Carnage: Damagewise it performs how i feel the spec should perform, however every class and spec has damagepotential at the start of entering combat and therefore can feel very unrewarding when one gets the primary focus of the enemy and can't even get rage before popping pretty much every DCD. This is just mildly annoying but can be a huge problem in games where its a tight race for the kills and its all about dishing out as much as possible when arriving back at the battlefield.

 

Carnage IMO is the spec with the LEAST damage potential in PvP, the sheer amount of stuns in PvP make it hard to even get a ravage out without becoming stunned/rooted/slowed. I think that the Ataru Form should come with a stock 30% extra movement speed inside combat, and for Carnage turn Force Camoflage into something akin to Force Speed with a rootbreak and threat dump. that would fix most of it's issues, then there's stuns... oh stuns, why must you be so long? well, in Carnage, why not add something that in PvP ONLY would reduce the length of ALL stuns by 2.5 seconds (taking 4 second stuns down to 2.5 seconds and 8 second stuns down to 6.5 seconds, and Mezzes down to 8.5 seconds) OR you can take the Lame route and give 60% damage reduction while stunned and allow Undying Rage to be used while CC'd

 

Rage: This spec performs well even without the AOE damagewise, however the "awesome" spike damage with smash everyone keeps talking about makes me cringe. That sentiment might have been true a few patches ago but with all the buffs around the "great" spike burst of smash is not that great and many classes and specs have the same or better equivalent. This and also the general feeling i get from playing the spec makes it very unrewarding but functional.

 

To fix Rage tree, we need our feared AOE DPS back, and the key to it is Sweeping Slash. Sweeping Slash currently costs 3 Rage, and deals barely more damage than our basic attack, but in the Rage tree, we should boost it's damage up by say 75% in total, give it a free 10% Crit rate, increase it's target limit from 5 to infinite, and finally to cap it off allow it to reduce the CD of Smash and Obliderate, These changes would make the spec deal alot of AOE burst DPS and AOE filler. i think in total with these changes Sweeping Slash would deal non-critical in the 2.5k - 2.9k range, and crit for about 4k - 5k and for a filler move, that seems reasonable.

 

The fix:

 

Force camo can now be used while stunned (not mezzed) and will grant immunity from movement impairing effects during the duration, additionally getting stunned or rooted reduces the cooldown of force camo by 1.5 seconds (passive or 1st row of any given tree)

 

Ok, seems fine

 

Undying rage is removed (who cares, useless DCD anyway)

 

NEVER, it's the BEST DCD in the game!

 

Precisely how many seconds the cooldown should be reduced can be discussed and this is just a suggestion that I very much would like to see.

 

Since Anni is a dot spec, this change i feel will be enough for the spec to work better. Carnage didn't have any problem with snares but the class needed something in general to be more elusive and functional.

 

With these changes every spec will get the (imo) deserved fast and agile feel the class need without giving it a boringly OP DCD like juggs. It also fits our class imo, we shouldn't be super tanky, juggs can have that, but atleast give us something so that we can function properly.

 

Also i would like to add that i feel they should do something about carnage and the RNG of it. It needs to be more consistent imo. QoL is needed for carnage.

 

Been saying that for the past like SINCE 2.0 CAME OUT... it's why i deleted my Mara (though i'm making a new one now...)

 

Bold Replies

Well, i personally think that Cloak of Pain and Force camo is the best DCD in the game, UR is a ballbuster and even though i like it (loved it before they totally ****ed it) i wouldn't mind removing it for an improvement of either or both of the two first DCD i mentioned.

Like i said the force camo improvement i suggested is my favorite. I think it solves anni tree snare/root problem aswell as the class dependancy on backup. The rest is just QoL stuff and minor tweaks. I really don't think i'll even miss UR Not with Force camo readily available like every 35 or so seconds if we add the reducing of cooldown.