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So when do we get the Appearance Tab?


Ohoni

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Then destroying the precedence of operations gear, as they lose their edge, aka boni sets.

.

 

Why should purple raid gear take precedence over orange gear?

 

You need 1 purple drop per slot with normal raid gear and

in case of for example a lightsaber 4 purple mod drops to get the same gear.

 

"Normal" raid drops are easier to get than a compareable orange, so there's no need for them to have better stats...

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IMO the best option is...

 

1st Add every appearence (if they aren't already) to the orange gear list.

2nd Remove set bonuses from directly being on gear to a new gear slot/ new mod slot. (Something similar to the system Rift uses would work.)

 

With this you still get full customization, minimal overhauling of current systems, and orange gear is still an option albeit far more time/credit consuming. Overall I feel your apearence is a major part of an MMO and if you want to look great it should be a result of efforts. Not hey that ally rat had this cool chest piece in his loot table. (I think all greys should be modable but thats a whole other issue)

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The custom item mechanic is better than an appeareance tab.

 

No, the custom armor and appearance tab are not in competition. It's like saying that vegetables are better than meat, there's no reason to make silly arguments. An appearance tab system alone would be better than the custom item mechanic alone, but both together is better than either of them could possibly be alone.

 

The fact that you can ignore the apearence tab if you don't want it is fine and dandy but you cant say it doesn't effect crafting.

 

I didn't say that, but I did say that it only effects them in ways that they deserve to be effected. They do not deserrve to have a monopoly over appearance customization. Crafting should be a viable competitor to the standard loot/reward mechanisms, they should provide alternative wears that are as good or slightly better than competing items, but they should never corner the market on any given mechanism and having to interact with the player economy for simple character customization is FAR too much hassle to be justified from a non-crafter perspective. I have an Armormech character right now, and am having plenty of benefit from it just in being able to craft gear for myself and my companion, I have no need to even use the reward or dropped armors I find in most cases because my crafted gear is superior to it.

 

Everyone loves to have a monopoly when they're on the monopolistic side of the equation, but that doesn't make it fair or right.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't have opened the topic on a board filled with crafters, but this new layout doesn't have an "items" board and the general one is far too crowed to be heard.

 

You severely criple the usefulness of most mods. Mods are on par with ops gear at best but never better. So why take the time to fully mod out orange gear when you can just get potentialy ugly gear that already has all the good stats and cover it up with an appearence tab?

 

I think it's a flaw in the current system that you can only apply mods to orange gear at the moment. I've come across mods before, but had no use for them because the only orange item I own is my gun. If I could mod all, or even some of my standard armor then I would definitely want to use mods to keep them in tip-top shape at all times. The mod system should NOT be about appearance customization, it should be about taking the gear you have and making it better, so that if you have level 15 armor, you can make it as strong as level 16, 17, 18, and so on, until you come across level 20 armor that's better still. It should also be about stat customization, so that if you get really great armor, but it's Defense spec and you're more interested in crit, you can swap in a crit mod to adjust it to taste.

 

The easy way: collect purples with nice stats but a look you might not want

 

The harder way: collect oranges from crafters, commendation and quests, collect purple mods for nice stats, look like you want to look

 

a appeareance tab would destroy the second option...

 

Exactly?

 

Wait, are you saying that like it's a bad thing?

 

 

1st Add every appearence (if they aren't already) to the orange gear list.

2nd Remove set bonuses from directly being on gear to a new gear slot/ new mod slot. (Something similar to the system Rift uses would work.)

 

With this you still get full customization, minimal overhauling of current systems, and orange gear is still an option albeit far more time/credit consuming. Overall I feel your apearence is a major part of an MMO and if you want to look great it should be a result of efforts. Not hey that ally rat had this cool chest piece in his loot table. (I think all greys should be modable but thats a whole other issue)

 

Yes, but it still fails to solve the scenario:

 

 

Players A and B are both level 15, and have identical level 13 armor. Players A and B both receive identical level 15 armor that is mechanically superior to their current armor. Player A either enjoys the appearance of the new armor, or does not care, and throws it on immediately. Player B prefers the appearance of the old armor, but wants to gain the new mechanical stats of the new armor.

 

Any system that proposes to be a solution to the lack of an appearance tab needs to be one that solves that scenario in such a way that Player B is not significantly put out relative to Player A. It would need to mean that he would be able to have the appearance of the old armor with the stats of the new armor, and not have had to spend a significant amount of time, credits, or other losses to achieve that effect.

 

Even if they did as you say, player B would still have to throw away his perfectly good armor, because he'd have no way of getting it to look how he wants, then he'd have to track down an orange version of the armor he did like the looks of, even though he had a perfectly good green version of it in his inventory, then he'd have to collect enough mods to equal the stats of the armor he'd thrown away, and all that JUST to be mechanically equal to Player A while looking the way he preferred. That's WAY too much work to ask of the players, by ANY reasonable standards.

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If you want something I think you should work for it. The current crafting system makes you work for it. It works within the confine of the lore and really is enjoyable.

 

I don't think effort for effort's sake is always justified. It's like a TV remote. Yes, every time I want to change the channel I could get up and manually flick through the channels, or maybe I could make it extra hard and insist on using the remote but putting the remote upstairs after each use so that I need to go up and down the stairs each time, but on balance I think it's just all around better to go with the convenient option of keeping the remote nearby and using it to change channels instead.

 

I'm not saying that everything in the game needs to be handed out without requiring effort, I'm not objecting to having to earn the gear itself through gameplay, I just think that the current mechanic smacks of "busywork," of being inconvenient for inconvenience's sake. The "reward" you get of not looking like a thrift-store reject is not something that should require the amount of effort that must be put into it. This is something that should be available right at the player's fingertips at all time. It does not make me feel "better" to have "earned" the right to look how I want, it just makes me frustrated that I have not.

 

Again, if you value the effort of hand-tailoring the specific outfit you like, then feel free to do so, with or without an appearance tab, just as I could hide my remote upstairs if I felt like it, but it should be your responsibility and self-control that creates that system of work for reward if it's you that values such an interaction. That system should not be enforced on everyone, even if they don't share your interest in self-flagellation.

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Oh, and one other thing, the whole "fits within the lore" escuse is just plain, 100% BS. Just drop that one. None of this "fits within the lore." Obi Wan in New Hope was wearing rags, and yet presumably had "level 50 stats." He didn't weave those robes to include the armor properties of his Clone Wars armor, he just got the stats. Leia didn't need to "mod up" her slave girl outfit to have the stats needed to take out Jabba.

 

Basically, gear-dependent performance is completely outside the lore, at most, the only effect gear would have on performance would be that heavy armor would be tougher than light armor, and some armor would offer slightly higher armor stat within its class than others, but the gear of a "level 50" Jedi in the lore would provide no significant advantage over "level 1" armor.

 

So gear with stats is already completely outside the lore, and therefore any system that involves modifying low level gear to incorporate the stats of high level gear is equally outside the lore, lore simply cannot be used to justify anything when it comes to appearance customization.

 

Really the appearance tab is the best system if one is trying to be true to the lore, as it relegates gear to its proper role, just a general stat-modification mechanism, almost completely divorced from how your character looks.

 

a crafting system that makes you work for it, thats madness!!! no, wait, that doesnt sound right at all......

 

Nobody's talking about simplifying the crafting system, the crafting system should be left largely untouched. We're discussing simplifying appearance customization, in such a way that it has almost nothing to do with crafting, as is the case in most other games.

Edited by Ohoni
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  • 2 weeks later...

For those of you that say there is "an orange item for every look", please tell me exactly what orange items match the look of medium Combat Synth armor. I love the look. I've reverse-engineered every piece up to purple, but as I understand it you can't continue to RE it till it gets to orange.

 

I've been trawling the GTN, and so far I have seen NO oranges that duplicate the look. I've seen plenty of stuff that is hideous, or looks like it belongs in City of Heroes, but nothing that matches the look of Combat Synth.

 

You can't tell me that it's "not lore," or it wouldn't be available at all.

 

Until someone can specifically name the orange armor that gives me a look identical to what I'm wearing, and what I like, I don't think you can argue that you can get any look you want from crafting.

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@OP, i agree.

 

I see some people complaining it would be easy to obtain certain looks, but how about we do it like WoW: Hand in the item you want it to look like. That way, rare item looks are still to be worked for, but players can choose not to look like it because they dont like the looks.

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That is what the oranges are for.

 

Again, prove there are oranges for every look. I've yet to find one that matches my current armor.

 

Does that mean they don't exist? Not necessarily, but I have yet to find any orange that matches Combat Synth. If it exists, tell me what it is called, and what level schematic it is. Otherwise simply saying "that is what oranges are for" is an empty statement that can not be backed up by facts.

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Again, prove there are oranges for every look. I've yet to find one that matches my current armor.

 

Does that mean they don't exist? Not necessarily, but I have yet to find any orange that matches Combat Synth. If it exists, tell me what it is called, and what level schematic it is. Otherwise simply saying "that is what oranges are for" is an empty statement that can not be backed up by facts.

 

The game just started... Not all Patterns have been found... Yup that's the down side of starting a game at launch...

 

From my experience Oranges are mostly patterns found through "slicing" missions that Slicers will get from time to time...

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To OP ... And All others that do not agree with the Orange Moddable items...

 

1 - The systems is NEW ... Even the devs themselves says it still has to be worked on... They are working to make it better...

 

2 - As an other one said earlier... The Orange are made that you have to work to be able to keep your look... In real life when you change your running shoes... Will you call Nike and tell them "Hey I preferred that model last year... can you make me a special pair that look EXACTLY the same but have the same new features you put on the new ones ???

 

3 - Some one brought a pretty interesting idea... I hope dev will read this... it would be a great idea that a "Synthweaver" (for example) would be able to transform any force armor from "Not moddable with stats" to full "Orange Moddable" items without any stats... So from that idea ... a "none" synthweaver that likes the look of that said armor... go see his friendly Synthweaver put it in a "special" trade window and RE it to become "orange" without stats... And maybe makes it a possible "crit" re-eng and the synthweaver can learn the schem...

 

4 - This game is an MMO ... Once again Let's go back to the BASIC "M"MO... Multi-Player... MULTI... Meaning MANY... That means a "society" kinda thing... That means you cannot survive on your own... That means if you want something... Well you might have to ask help from someone else... If you want Oranges ... either make the mods your self... But you won't be able to make the orange armor yourself... Or make the orange yourself and find someone to help you mod your Armors...

 

5 - To the OP ... giving example about the remote control... the second floor... I would suggest instead of putting it on the second floor... Put it outside... maybe you'll realize there is a real world outside... and you cannot modify everything you want just because you had something that looked like it...

 

I think the Orange systems is still a work in progress... but they are on a good direction with it... If you want your look work you ***** off to get it... Stop giving everything QQers want... Make the game rewarding...

Edited by pSyToR
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IMO the best option is...

 

1st Add every appearence (if they aren't already) to the orange gear list.

2nd Remove set bonuses from directly being on gear to a new gear slot/ new mod slot. (Something similar to the system Rift uses would work.)

 

With this you still get full customization, minimal overhauling of current systems, and orange gear is still an option albeit far more time/credit consuming. Overall I feel your apearence is a major part of an MMO and if you want to look great it should be a result of efforts. Not hey that ally rat had this cool chest piece in his loot table. (I think all greys should be modable but thats a whole other issue)

 

They should all be craftable. That's the big caveat for me. Let your Armstech/Armormech/Synthweaver/Artificer ultimately craft every piece of gear in the game (for their own profession) as an Orange.

 

It could become a function of crafters, with some additional materials, to convert non-modifiable items into mod clean, slotted and modifiable versions. It could also be done as a cash sink, where you have to bring the item to an NPC and pay a fee for the service, based on the level of the item. Or, they could combine both options.

 

You would basically be stripping the stats away to make an item into a "skin", to which appropriate mods could be added, just like with current Orange gear. Since you don't obtain any mods in the process, there is no subversion of the system of mod expense and availability in the game.

 

I detailed a system before the board wipe where a crafter picks up an appropriate Grey item and RE's it to learn the Green version. Then RE's the Green multiple to learn 3-5 Blue recipes, then RE's each of them to learn the Blue with one slot (2 on a crit), RE again to learn the Purple version, RE that to learn the Purple version with 2 slots (3 on a crit) and RE that to learn the Orange version.

 

This becomes a time/credit/material sink, AND gives us full control over our appearance and gear stats.

 

What's not to like?

 

Edit: Added Artificer, forgot they make complete lightsabers in later levels

Edited by ColonelKer-Nal
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I get that some people are fine with the way the system currently works, and that's ok. If they implement a superior appearance system then you can continue to do things exactly as you can now, nobody's talking about removing anything, just adding on top of whatever's there.

 

This is just for people that aren't satisfied with the current system, those that have had to put away appearances that they liked in favor of ones with better stats that they haven't liked as much, and do not feel that they should be put at a mechanical disadvantage behind players that do not care about their appearance.

 

I hear this argument all the time.

 

"We want an easier system(whatever system it is)"

"We like the system as is, it rewards hard work"

"With this fix it we can have it both ways".

 

But that isn't true, let me clearify what they REALLY mean.

 

"You can still work hard if you want, WE just don't want too...."

 

You CAN have the look you want, eventaully, if you work for it. To alter the system would undermind the work others have put into it. And it also diminish a rewarding aspect of the game. You work hard, get your gear you want, mod it out, and tad! A since of accomplishment! I like it as is.

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I hear this argument all the time.

 

"We want an easier system(whatever system it is)"

"We like the system as is, it rewards hard work"

"With this fix it we can have it both ways".

 

But that isn't true, let me clearify what they REALLY mean.

 

"You can still work hard if you want, WE just don't want too...."

 

You CAN have the look you want, eventaully, if you work for it. To alter the system would undermind the work others have put into it. And it also diminish a rewarding aspect of the game. You work hard, get your gear you want, mod it out, and tad! A since of accomplishment! I like it as is.

 

I really dislike the orange system, and it causes the game to feel less rewarding. Now, everytime a non orange gear drops it feels meaninless because I'm just gonna vendor it no matter how good or bad their stats are. All that matters are orange items, and they are few and far between, and most are not my taste, what just makes this all feel even worse.

 

This is happening in the game right now, most game rewards just feel boring, really, they just killed an important aspect of the game for me, and most loot just go vendor trash, even when I got them in instances/groups. It's really sad, but it's their game, not my game, for good or for bad. All I can do is to express my dislike and hope for the best.

 

Another thing, most newbies don't get how the orange system works. My friends constantly ask me questions about it and I have to explain again and again. A lot of people have vendored an orange gear they liked when a better stats green gear dropped because they didn't understand how the system works. It's unintuitive.

Edited by Calribeiro
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I really dislike the orange system, and it causes the game to feel less rewarding. Now, everytime a non orange gear drops it feels meaninless because I'm just gonna vendor it no matter how good or bad their stats are. All that matters are orange items, and they are few and far between, and most are not my taste, what just makes this all feel even worse.

 

This is happening in the game right now, most game rewards just feel boring, really, they just killed an important aspect of the game for me, and most loot just go vendor trash, even when I got them in instances/groups. It's really sad, but it's their game, not my game, for good or for bad. All I can do is to express my dislike and hope for the best.

 

Another thing, most newbies don't get how the orange system works. My friends constantly ask me questions about it and I have to explain again and again. A lot of people have vendored an orange gear they liked when a better stats green gear dropped because they didn't understand how the system works. It's unintuitive.

 

I'm not sure why you would vendor instantly your new loots you get ? For the time being it might be better than your orange, but if you REALLY REALLY like that orange set you have... Well you will need to find mods that will actually make it as good as the "insert any other loot" you just got... That's the whole point of the Orange Items... Work so you can make it as good... If you're vendoring instantly ? I hope you're modding your Orange... Cause you might find it harder and harder to play that game...

 

As for the "newbies"... Well they are call newbies for something... Not only the diminish them... But to also mean that they are NEW... and the need to UNDERSTAND... You were a "n00b" at some point too... You understand games mechanic now... Congrats.. .Now share your knowldge...

Edited by pSyToR
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I hear this argument all the time.

 

"We want an easier system(whatever system it is)"

"We like the system as is, it rewards hard work"

"With this fix it we can have it both ways".

 

But that isn't true, let me clearify what they REALLY mean.

 

"You can still work hard if you want, WE just don't want too...."

 

You CAN have the look you want, eventaully, if you work for it. To alter the system would undermind the work others have put into it. And it also diminish a rewarding aspect of the game. You work hard, get your gear you want, mod it out, and tad! A since of accomplishment! I like it as is.

 

I just want to clarify my own position here. I'm OK with the current system IF and only if every piece of gear has a fully modable (aka Orange) version and said modable version is craftable. This gear also needs to be available at an early level, 10-15, and not just reserved for the End Game.

 

IOW as long as the current system is as flexible as a full blown Appearance Tab I'm good with it. If it's not, well the devs need to address that. Between the lame-*** character creation (5 hairstyles that don't look like emo, punk, or gang nonsense out of 30? Really? No real blonde color? Really? No redhead color? No shading on hair? And that's only ONE facet of this sucktastic, 7 year old character creator), and the overblown ego of the art department that is going to get their feelings hurt if I don't display their clown suits... Well I'm PAYING to play this game, and I'm not going to get attached to my character if I don't like the way they look.

 

Maybe this garbage is ok for the WoW kiddies who don't know any better, but I've been playing a different MMO for the past 7 years and expect TOR to reflect its 2011 creation date. Particularly given their repeated boasts that this will have all the features of a triple A title. So far, that's a very empty boast.

Edited by ColonelKer-Nal
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I'm not sure why you would vendor instantly your new loots you get ? For the time being it might be better than your orange, but if you REALLY REALLY like that orange set you have... Well you will need to find mods that will actually make it as good as the "insert any other loot" you just got... That's the whole point of the Orange Items... Work so you can make it as good... If you're vendoring instantly ? I hope you're modding your Orange... Cause you might find it harder and harder to play that game...

 

As for the "newbies"... Well they are call newbies for something... Not only the diminish them... But to also mean that they are NEW... and the need to UNDERSTAND... You were a "n00b" at some point too... You understand games mechanic now... Congrats.. .Now share your knowldge...

 

Well, most people are level 20ish right now, and it's really just too low to experience what I explained. I'm wearing some of the same items I got at the second planet now at lvl 40ish not because I like their look, but because there was no real valid options for me.

 

One important aspect of games for me is the loot feeling rewarding, and with the current orange system it just fails to feel so. Most gear drop is just vendor trash because I dislike their look, and their stats doesn't matter.

 

My argument is that if appearance and stat customization were two different things not tied together, like it is in the current orange system, sometimes I'd get ugly gear for their stats, and sometimes I'd get bad gear for their looks, increasing the chances the loot having any rewarding feeling. In the current system is just: Oh, I dislike the looks, vendor trash no matter the stats...

Edited by Calribeiro
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One important aspect of games for me is the loot feeling rewarding, and with the current orange system it just fails to feel so. Most gear drop is just vendor trash because I dislike their look, and their stats doesn't matter.

 

My argument is that if appearance and stat customization were two different things not tied together, like it is in the current orange system, sometimes I'd get ugly gear for their stats, and sometimes I'd get bad gear for their looks, increasing the chances the loot having any rewarding feeling. In the current system is just: Oh, I dislike the looks, vendor trash no matter the stats...

 

Agree with both of those.

 

If we could continue to RE purple items into orange, moddable items I'd agree that an appearance tab is unnecessary. It would be a major time and money sink to get to those orange schematics, but I could deal with that. Or I'd buy crafted armor from someone else that has the look I want.

 

The only way to end this argument is for a) someone to start posting examples of all the orange looks so that we can be sure we can get the look we want; b) the addition of the ability to RE purples to oranges, even if it's difficult; or c) an appearance tab.

 

This argument will not go away until people can make their characters look the way they want.

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