Add in the instant travel features from the newer ops and shorten the run back to Firebrand and Stormcaller/Kephess.

Oh god, yes please. If people have gotten to the boss already, what is the sense in making them waste a lot of time when doing progression for an example. And no, no one should offer "time sink" as an answer. Why is it not a trend in this game to be teleported next to the boss once you've cleared the trash to the boss when raid wipe happens? How can it be so hard to design user friendly things like that. Claiming it is so, is simply not true. Making people run from Walkers to Lurker is just plain stupid. That walk is part of the problem with people having low tolerance when wiping there. It's just anti-fun to walk back those distances...and again: poor design.

FTFY

Casuals can clear it, stop mistaking them for Bads.

No, I meant exactly what I said, casual players will avoid both EC and ToS the same way they avoid ToS now.

Explain something to me though. You constantly belittle people by saying how they will be crying for nerfs to Soa, but then you claim how every easily pugs can clear ToS. The thing is that ToS when it's in gf still only has a third to a half the activity that Ravagers has. You also still see "LFM ToS @ Underlurker" and come October Denova will be the same way.

I don't think you actually run with pugs, you just run with others in your small world and assume everyone else is bad.

Eh, the heck with it. I know you do all the ops in the snow up hill both ways with one hand tied behind your back and then blind folded just for fun, and then come to the forums to modestly tell people about it, but honestly, this game and its leet players aren't worth getting upset about. The time has come to be gone.

No, I meant exactly what I said, casual players will avoid both EC and ToS the same way they avoid ToS now.

 

Explain something to me though. You constantly belittle people by saying how they will be crying for nerfs to Soa, but then you claim how every easily pugs can clear ToS. The thing is that ToS when it's in gf still only has a third to a half the activity that Ravagers has. You also still see "LFM ToS @ Underlurker" and come October Denova will be the same way.

 

I don't think you actually run with pugs, you just run with others in your small world and assume everyone else is bad.

 

Eh, the heck with it. I know you do all the ops in the snow up hill both ways with one hand tied behind your back and then blind folded just for fun, and then come to the forums to modestly tell people about it, but honestly, this game and its leet players aren't worth getting upset about. The time has come to be gone.

You should go to suggestion forum and suggest "auto-kill-mode" for casuals you speak of. With 190 blues from Ziost, you need to be able to play your character to 50% efficiency (or less) on Lurker to actually kill it. Of course, you are required to tell left and right apart and so on. God forbid this game would require anything like looking at where ads spawn and running there (Firebrand and Stormcaller). It's not requiring much.

What BW could do is "visual tutorial" about mechanics that can be seen before a storymode fight.

No, I meant exactly what I said, casual players will avoid both EC and ToS the same way they avoid ToS now.

 

Explain something to me though. You constantly belittle people by saying how they will be crying for nerfs to Soa, but then you claim how every easily pugs can clear ToS. The thing is that ToS when it's in gf still only has a third to a half the activity that Ravagers has. You also still see "LFM ToS @ Underlurker" and come October Denova will be the same way.

 

I don't think you actually run with pugs, you just run with others in your small world and assume everyone else is bad.

 

Eh, the heck with it. I know you do all the ops in the snow up hill both ways with one hand tied behind your back and then blind folded just for fun, and then come to the forums to modestly tell people about it, but honestly, this game and its leet players aren't worth getting upset about. The time has come to be gone.

Maybe comprehension isn't your strong point. Joking aside about Soa, on the premise that Bads will QQ that it's too hard. Yes Bads the ones who do 1k DPS on Lurker are going to cry. Yes there are lots but they tend to stick to the 55 Ops. Now everything is raised so we have to deal with that and pugging with Conquest farmers who won't understand the Old Ops. However, you don't need to spend a lot of time in game to learn the mechanics and how to DPS. Ergo, casuals and Bads aren't the same so stop confusing them. I do pug a lot and don't assume I'm the best (I'm not even close) but I make sure that I take people who worth to take not just any bum on fleet. Stop trying to hide behind casual players who can play well.

So I hope you understand that or should I explain another time?

Well, for me the main change I would like to see is that there is a unified designer philosophy in terms of difficulty level that is expected in each tier of the Operations. For example, if the designer decision is that all SM should be passable by an unskilled players, all the fights should be passable by unskilled players without raising the bar on one particular boss.

My definition of an unskilled player is someone like me, who needs to look at the bars and can select keybinds in more or less correct order, but not in advance of them coming of the CD - that results in a DPS on a dummy about 30-40% lower than a passably skilled player (in current terms the 2000 DPS range rather than 3000 DPS range).

I ran a dummy test specifically because I went through an FP (Blood Hunt, I think) and ToS-Ul that seemed unwinnable, and both (as I was told) by the reasons of DPS being too low, so I wanted to see what is required from a DPS in SWTOR. I gotta say, it's a lot. After about half an hour of trying to speed up my rotation enough to hit even the sub-par 3000 DPS, my hand was hurting.

On the other hand, if the designer decision is that the Operations on the SM are starting on a skilled level (in other words the ability to execute the rotation by memory, by touch and ahead of the CDs, resulting in 3000+ DPS), well, that's fine too, but, again, this should imo be consistent.

And published in advance in some sort of a way so we can run a quick readiness check on our own and know that entry is hopeless. Because the gear check they announce in the op frame is misleading, since the performance of two characters in exactly the same gear can differ so greatly depending on the reflexes and muscle memory of an individual.

I just really hope that the Ops will be playable on SM once upgraded, and not turn into another ToS.

On the personal level, that healer challenge in DP... fingers crossed it can be toned down a little on the SM.

Lol please. IMO, the only thing they'll do to the OPS is run a script that increases all the numbers up to level 65 content.

This.

Nothing is going to change except for boss hp/damage.

I feel for the folks that haven't figured this out yet and are hoping for actual changes - they're not going to happen.

Well, for me the main change I would like to see is that there is a unified designer philosophy in terms of difficulty level that is expected in each tier of the Operations. For example, if the designer decision is that all SM should be passable by an unskilled players, all the fights should be passable by unskilled players without raising the bar on one particular boss.

 

My definition of an unskilled player is someone like me, who needs to look at the bars and can select keybinds in more or less correct order, but not in advance of them coming of the CD - that results in a DPS on a dummy about 30-40% lower than a passably skilled player (in current terms the 2000 DPS range rather than 3000 DPS range).

 

I ran a dummy test specifically because I went through an FP (Blood Hunt, I think) and ToS-Ul that seemed unwinnable, and both (as I was told) by the reasons of DPS being too low, so I wanted to see what is required from a DPS in SWTOR. I gotta say, it's a lot. After about half an hour of trying to speed up my rotation enough to hit even the sub-par 3000 DPS, my hand was hurting.

 

On the other hand, if the designer decision is that the Operations on the SM are starting on a skilled level (in other words the ability to execute the rotation by memory, by touch and ahead of the CDs, resulting in 3000+ DPS), well, that's fine too, but, again, this should imo be consistent.

 

And published in advance in some sort of a way so we can run a quick readiness check on our own and know that entry is hopeless. Because the gear check they announce in the op frame is misleading, since the performance of two characters in exactly the same gear can differ so greatly depending on the reflexes and muscle memory of an individual.

 

I just really hope that the Ops will be playable on SM once upgraded, and not turn into another ToS.

 

On the personal level, that healer challenge in DP... fingers crossed it can be toned down a little on the SM.

So, by your definition, an unskilled player is someone who does not know what buttons to hit next. You then want a minimum dps requirement that you can check yourself to see if you match the requirements for the raid. Would you like a mechanics check to see if you can complete those too? Like maybe some incredibly large red letters in the middle of your screen or giant red circles underneath you?

This may come off as incredibly critical, but the point here is that Operations are meant to be a team exercise that challenges you. You wipe, you try again. You keep trying until you figure out what is needed to complete the fight you are on, then you are on to the next.

Ever wonder why the majority of the players that play this game prefer the story aspect (ie why they are pushing that content out and benching new ops)? Why the ops are not played as much as other things...? It's because all of the people that were good at raiding and enjoyed competing left the game. They realized how bad the raids are in comparison to other games. I shouldn't be able to walk in to a current tier raid with half my gear at the EC level and the other half at the TFB level and pull ~3.8k HPS .....sorry, thats waaaay more then is needed for SM with OLD gear. I mention this to put the content in perspective.

Bioware is transitioning into a VERY casual game. YOU are asking for them to hand feed you the boss kills. At what point should they stop making things too easy? That is what you have to ask yourself.

Personally, I am interested in breaking EV and KP at 65. Anyone remember Jarg and Sorno NiM? They damage scaling was stupid and they messed that up. Let's see if they do it again.

I wonder how bioware will update Karaga's palace:

Bioware says:

"Elevator boss... Hits you harder when you drop down... There we go, scaled for level 65 difficulty!"

So, by your definition, an unskilled player is someone who does not know what buttons to hit next.

Incorrect. You know what to hit next, but hit it when it is available, not before it is available. It is just such a strange concept. Maybe everyone else knows it, but for me it came as a complete surprise. It is an expectation that was not really spelled out in the game materials. I don't think you are supposed to play like that for prolonged period of time, tbh, because I feel person will just burn down. I don't know, I am still kind of astounded that this is how it is done.

Bioware is transitioning into a VERY casual game. YOU are asking for them to hand feed you the boss kills. At what point should they stop making things too easy? That is what you have to ask yourself.

I simply want expectations published for a tier, and for BioWARE to stick to that. If you don't want to know... don't look? I find it odd that on one hand experienced players seem to complain about new and inexperienced players coming unprepared, but when you want to prepare and put all your ducks in a row, that incites displeasure as well? I don't understand then what is wanted from us.

Please, try to understand where I am coming from. I have zero experience with other games people keep referring to. When I started out, I had to find a list of 100 MMO terms to look up words like aggro, tank, etc, let alone the fundamental concepts of a group play. I thought kiting was the Sage's Force Lift. My friend had to explain to me that orange item means an orange border, not background. I have to use information that comes from this game and well, it doesn't have much in a way of it.

So, by all that is holy, YES, yes, yes, I am super-careful about anything that I do and which impacts other players.

I also absolutely abhor criticizing people for what I won't be able to do myself, so I ran a DPS test to see what the DPS are dealing with, and if it is really as easy as folks say in not so complimentary way.

Frankly, based on my experience, I have no idea how players actually can dial in the rotation at such a speed and precision while maintaining raid awareness, and would be curious to see player like that actually playing. It would be really interesting.

I also swear here and now, that even if I do get it, and can play like that, I will not forget how challenging it feels right now.

Levelling a DPS basically leads you to believe that you do just fine, because well, the mobs and bosses fall down before the opener is done. There is no feedback built in-game like in the SP games. There is no benchmark that tells you you are underperforming. By not making this information available, the company sets a player up for a failure, and an unpleasant experience. Only because I saw the problem first hand I have tried in advance to find out that I don't stand a chance as a DPS.

Yes, it is a group-based game, but since the failure in operation leads to the full group punishment, an individual failure leads to conflict and unpleasant experience. Hence, to make it better, everyone needs to do self-diagnostics and know they are ready before trying. But how could we if the game seem to indicate we are fine, but we are not?

While there is some hints that the content is 'more difficult' that qualitative assumption is not sufficient to judge the preparedness.

The only thing the operation say is that you have to have the entry level gear. I simply suggest adding the expected performance to that number. I don't understand why it is a secret. I think BioWARE's expectations should be published, particulary because the difficulty of content seems to be linked to the DPS check.

And the thing I would love to see is that all the operations of the same tier have comparable level of difficulty, so a player who is qualified to do the tier doesn't end up with an encounter that belongs in a tier above (or below for that matter).

Do you find any of it unreasonable?

Do you find any of it unreasonable?

It might be an unreasonable expectation.

Bioware seems to have a hard time with consistency, especially at release.

Also, while giving target numbers for dps would be very useful, it's harder to gauge numbers for the other roles. I suppose they could give an expected damage output on the tanks and the rest of the group, so you can see how your dtps compares (tank), and if you're healing your share (healer), but that's not something you can test on a dummy beforehand, you have to try it anyway (unless, unless... rumored tank/heal dummies finally coming ? unlikely).

Ultimately, all of that requires external unofficial tools to measure.

So while I'd love to see your suggestions come true, I'm very skeptical about Bioware putting the amount of effort it would take to get it right.

Incorrect. You know what to hit next, but hit it when it is available, not before it is available. It is just such a strange concept. Maybe everyone else knows it, but for me it came as a complete surprise.

With ability queue set at more than 0.0 seconds, it really isn't different from playing with no queue. Your global cooldown activation just shifts a bit to accomodate for the queue, so you don't miss out on any APM. I play with a 0.5 secs myself and it feels very natural.

They HAVE to change some of the mechanics in old fights to deal with new abilities, Otherwise people will stack PT's and sonic rebounder color deletion, or incinerate armor, or double destruction, or "The end", or etc.

Well, at this point, maybe it's sonic rebounder that has to change ?...

Well, at this point, maybe it's sonic rebounder that has to change ?...

Probably needs a 3-5 minute ICD so it can only be used once per typical fight like other raid wide stuff.

They may change abilities that have been a bit OP in current content such as sonic rebounder and stuff like saber reflect and even hydraulics going into 65, but its almost guaranteed they will screw something up at 65 as far as balancing encounters to abilities.

Look out for some mechanic that cannot be managed well at 65 (like interrupts or cleanses) due to ability changes while some other mechanics end up easily cheesed by a class or two, as well as count on at least one class / discipline having a ridiculously powerful old set bonus.

Well, at this point, maybe it's sonic rebounder that has to change ?...

This I agree with completely. It's insane to think how many mechanics you can completely negate with Sonic Rebounder. This is more of an issue then the old school raids/mechanics themselves. I like the idea of giving it a 3-5 min CD, but I personally think it shouldn't be raid wide at all. If anything, just for the user pressing it.

All ops: thrash / time to return to the boss should take less time (i think dp is at a nice spot)

ravagers and toss: make hydraulics and sonic rebounder weaker (fpr HM at least). When 75% of most ops teams are made of troopers / bounty hunters there must be something wrong.

PS: I know you can make the new ops with diferent classes,but it's super easy whem you bring 8 troopers.

PS2: Sry the typos, english is not my first language and this was made in a smartphone

TFB: fine as is

SnV: Cutting down on non boss adds would be nice and make people unable to do superteam. Its a silly gimmick that only costs the group more time. Also for the money bosses make it so you can interrupt the super final offers or something.

DF: Legacy interrupt would be nice on draxus (or some reduction at least, not everyone is a marauder)

DP: Fix the damn healing challenges, its currently still set too high for a lvl 55 operation meant to be done in 162/168 unaugmented gear SM. (Story mode shouldn't need 3 healers, especially since the other challenges are nowhere near as challenging, You can have one DPS do the DPS challenge solo and the other tank can smoke a cigarette while he waits for his timer)

Rav: Good as is. (altough watch out you dont buff the adds, the AOE circles or fire of bulo too much, adds especially since ive seen people complain of bugged barrels)

TOS:

- Walkers is sorta good as is as long as a person is dedicated to bombs, I feel like the fight would be a bit easier on people if the enrage was 30 seconds longer than what it is currently (so an enrage around 6 minutes iirc) SM of course.

- Underlurker is like others have said, still too hard for pug runs, I personally dont mind since I rarely do pug runs but its also not very melee friendly and its kinda silly to have our guild only allow ranged DPS. For SM I hope bioware can reduce the AOE damage going out and make the adds not overlap their AOE damage circles.

- Up the challenge of the commanders on story mode, I think the healing requirement is between 1000-2000 EHPS, it can be solo healed and you can pretty much run it with 7 DPS if you wanted to.

- Revan is good as is but! give us some proper stairs, ive seen people fail that part of the fight -.-' even with the free revive you get later thats still annoying and costs time.

As a whole I wish they added some money bosses akin to the ones on TFB and SnV, all operations pretty much have room for them (except for maybe DF / DP)

also better speeder points (instant at that if possible) / teleport points would be nice.

Less trash in ops like TFB with loads of it.

No more 10 minute walks back to the boss like in EC and TFB.

Underlurkers cross should not need all 8 people to be standing in it in SM so it's OK if someone dies.

Fix Underlurker bugs.

Make Revanite Commanders an actual boss fight. God dam that fight is so boring.

Get rid of the god dam moneybosses in TFB and SAV. I'm here to raid, not to make credits. Make credits in your own time instead of wasting mine.

No more hardmare.

Don't make EC as hard as it was back then.

Make Revanite Commanders an actual boss fight. God dam that fight is so boring.

There's a really easy fix for this: make it so that there's always a council member on the floor. As it is now, the fight consists of:

1. Fight trash that dies in two GCD's for two minutes.

2. Fight boss for ten seconds.

3. Rinse and repeat for ten minutes.

4. Fight all three council members for 30 seconds.

5. Collect loot.