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bots hacks and cheats killing pvp


akcac

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I am not one to go around crying "cheater" or "hacker" but I must say that something fishy is going on in pvp. I cannot put my finger on it, I have no "proof" but there are certain things that just don't sit well with me when I am playing. First off I am a rage spec lvl 50 jugg, a lvl 50 sorc healer, as well as having several alts at all levels, and I have been playing since the October beta. I am not an elite pvp player by any stretch of the imagination, but I am not a horrible player either. When I play on my jugg I average about 250k damage per match and I am usually in the top 5 for damage. What I have seen recently that I find "interesting," is as follows:

 

:mad:knocking a single non healing character down to 10% health, with no healers around, and watching that 10% refill to 100% in between one attack.

 

:mad:constant cc on my toon. From the time I enter a fight I get cc'ed. Then cc'ed again, then with a full resolve bar I am cc'ed yet again. Then as I watch my health dwindle I break cc and get cc'ed yet again and then die. I have been cc'ed for 30-45 seconds straight with full resolve, which just does not seem right to me.

 

:mad:teleporting/disappearing characters. This might be a lag spike, however I have noticed that some characters seem to be effected by this lag constantly and it always seems to benefit them, by either getting them out of trouble or by getting them into a prime spot on the map.

 

:mad:characters zooming around a map. This is not as noticable as the speed hack from pre 1.2, but I see sorcs and consulars zooming around all the time as if they have force speed on unlock. I play both a sorc and a consular (shadow) and I can never hit force speed like I see some of these toons do. Just to clarify, it is not that these players are just speeding away from me, they speed away from me, up a ramp, through fire pits, get to the goal line and camp there, speeding away back and forth from attackers.

 

:mad:no cool down on opposing team cc's. I have seen sorcs just jolt over and over stunning someone (usually me...lol) over and over again. I have seen agents and smugglers do the same, but yet I understand that this class has multiple stuns.

 

:mad:going through a full rotation only to have all of my attacks absorbed. I am full bm, with wh implants and relics, with no augments yet except on the relics. I crit on my smash for 4.5-5k. Most of my attacks hit for 900-1.5k without crits. I know that a personal shield can take up to 4 or 5 hits, but I have hit someone 8-9 times with no effect. Perhaps I am not understanding the mechanics of a shield, but when I exhaust a rotation and others exhaust their rotations on the same enemy toon, with no or negligable damage taken by the enemy toon, something seems out of place. My shields cannot :mon_trap: REPEL FIRE OF THAT MAGNITUDE:mon_tongue:, so I am assuming that others are supposed to have the same abilities, if all is fair and balanced. Again, I could be mistaken here, but it just seems off to me.

 

This is what I have seen in various pvp wz, both on lvl 50 and under. Do I have proof of cheating and hackers? No. Have I reported anyone for cheating or hacking? No, not without solid proof I would never accuse or report someone. I do find these things strange and out of place and I would like BW to look into it, because I have noticed that in the past month or so these incidents have been increasing dramatically, so much so that pvp is becoming more of a chore than it is fun. The difference between bm gear and wh gear is not that great, so it is not a difference between gear that is causing such a massive difference in dps and shielding. Again, I am not accusing anyone of cheating or hacking, but then again it is very suspicious. Any system made by man can be broken by man, so it is more than possible that there are cheaters out there. I would like BW to address this situation and focus more on scanning or moderating pvp matches. Perhaps a bw employee can look at or sit in on random matches, unannounced, both in ranked and unranked matches, and see the situation for themselves...almost like a referee. If they see something out of the ordinary, they can view that person's account and see if that person is cheating or using 3rd party software to alter the game. Anyway that is my 2 cents, hopefully this problem will be addressed and the problems curbed...

Edited by dethpanzer
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Getting back on topic, I recently discovered players using a new exploit/cheat where they are somehow able to shoot through the force fields in VS (after the 2nd doors) from the opposite side before they are actually brought down. We had killed everyone on the opposing team and they were respawning on the other side of the force field, but somehow some of them were able to shoot us through it and prevent us from lowering the shields.

 

Has anyone else encountered this? I'm 99% sure it's an exploit, and reportable as such, but I have no idea how they are doing it.

 

I saw this 10min ago (and caught it on FRAPS ) and yeah it's def an exploit because it prevents the other team from lowering the shields without any way to counteract the tactic.

 

http://youtu.be/PeXbz8xIeGw

Edited by Evil_Santa
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Video on private.

 

fixed, didn't want it to be searchable - changed to unlisted. Basically AOE's ontop of the wall hit people trying to get the node. I should also note that we got the wall down in the video - after I let the person doing the exploit know that they were being recorded.

Edited by Evil_Santa
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He's placing his AoE. That's not a hack or anything. Clever use of game mechanics.

 

Except for the fact that there's no recourse to prevent this. Picture this situation - you get past the 2nd doors in 2 minutes, are are onto the 3rd, but 2 sorc/sages use /stuck on the defending team so they respawn beyond the barrier at the 3rd spawn location. Those 2 players can now prevent you from ever progessing to the 3rd door area for the next 5min 30sec of the match without you having any way to interupt them, CC them, attack them or stop their actions.

 

That's an exploit. Argue against it if you'd like, but what i just presented is reality - it creates a situation that cannot be countered by the attacking team, and will stop the attack dead in it's tracks 100% of the time. Then again, using group stealth on an already stealthed player so they can stealth cap is also a "clever use of game mechanics", but you can't do that anymore because Bioware deemed it an exploit.

 

I'm curious about why you're defending this obviously broken mechanic?

Edited by Evil_Santa
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Except for the fact that there's no recourse to prevent this. Picture this situation - you get past the 2nd doors in 2 minutes, are are onto the 3rd, but 2 sorc/sages use /stuck on the defending team so they respawn beyond the barrier at the 3rd spawn location. Those 2 players can now prevent you from ever progessing to the 3rd door area for the next 5min 30sec of the match without you having any way to interupt them, CC them, attack them or stop their actions.

 

That's an exploit. Argue against it if you'd like, but what i just presented is reality - it creates a situation that cannot be countered by the attacking team, and will stop the attack dead in it's tracks 100% of the time.

 

Hmm wonder if you're the shadow that was using deathfield (w/e the pub equivalent is) there...

 

My shadow is kinetic and level 47. Do you play on The Bastion? I'd be careful about paranoia.

 

It's an unfair tactic and should be fixed (like jumping over the gap in VS, which was fixed), but they are just using what's available to them. Exploits are more serious than that, like planting from inside the wall or abusing the old Voidstar ramp. Where something is clearly going wrong. Placing an AoE doesn't qualify on that level.

 

Edit: Nice try editing out your accusation.

Edited by ebado
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Except for the fact that there's no recourse to prevent this. Picture this situation - you get past the 2nd doors in 2 minutes, are are onto the 3rd, but 2 sorc/sages use /stuck on the defending team so they respawn beyond the barrier at the 3rd spawn location. Those 2 players can now prevent you from ever progessing to the 3rd door area for the next 5min 30sec of the match without you having any way to interupt them, CC them, attack them or stop their actions.

 

That's an exploit. Argue against it if you'd like, but what i just presented is reality - it creates a situation that cannot be countered by the attacking team, and will stop the attack dead in it's tracks 100% of the time. Then again, using group stealth on an already stealthed player so they can stealth cap is also a "clever use of game mechanics", but you can't do that anymore because Bioware deemed it an exploit.

 

I'm curious about why you're defending this obviously broken mechanic?

Only one class can do this effectively (and you'd need 2-3 of them to keep all 3 from getting capped). Every other class will either have resource maintaining issues for their ground-targeted AoE's or cooldown timer issues.

 

Also, there is a way to counter this, though it's technically an exploit of its own and requires that you'd be a certain class and/or spec, so I'm not going to explain it.

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My shadow is kinetic and level 47. Do you play on The Bastion? I'd be careful about paranoia.

 

It's an unfair tactic and should be fixed (like jumping over the gap in VS, which was fixed), but they are just using what's available to them. Exploits are more serious than that, like planting from inside the wall or abusing the old Voidstar ramp. Where something is clearly going wrong. Placing an AoE doesn't qualify on that level.

 

Edit: Nice try editing out your accusation.

 

I checked the logs and it wasn't you, but yes i do play on the bastion - which is where that video was taken from.

 

It is something that's available to them, but calling it "unfair" isn't being honest about the ramifications of the tactic. It's exploiting the terrain by placing an AOE above players, from a position is totally safe from any attacks, while preventing the attacking team from moving forward for an indefinite amount of time.

 

Only one class can do this effectively (and you'd need 2-3 of them to keep all 3 from getting capped). Every other class will either have resource maintaining issues for their ground-targeted AoE's or cooldown timer issues.

 

Also, there is a way to counter this, though it's technically an exploit of its own and requires that you'd be a certain class and/or spec, so I'm not going to explain it.

 

 

 

I play a sorc and can tell you with certainty that i could prevent any team from progressing beyond those walls in a voidstar match just by using force-lightning ontop of that wall from the safe side. All it would take is someone healing me while i consume to replenish the cost of force-storm for 5-min straight. That's not "unfair" - it's unstoppable.

Edited by Evil_Santa
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I checked the logs and it wasn't you, but yes i do play on the bastion - which is where that video was taken from.

 

It is something that's available to them, but calling it "unfair" isn't being honest about the ramifications of the tactic. It's exploiting the terrain by placing an AOE above players, from a position is totally safe from any attacks, while preventing the attacking team from moving forward for an indefinite amount of time.

 

Unfair is accurate. I don't need to fluff up my adjectives to satisfy some quality threshold in your mind.

I believe it is an unintended aspect of the warzone. Much like jumping over the gap. Much like the double stealth. It brings in an element of clearly unintended unbalanced play and should be fixed. But that's different than an exploit.

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Unfair is accurate. I don't need to fluff up my adjectives to satisfy some quality threshold in your mind.

I believe it is an unintended aspect of the warzone. Much like jumping over the gap. Much like the double stealth. It brings in an element of clearly unintended unbalanced play and should be fixed. But that's different than an exploit.

 

Jumping the gap could be countered (having someone from your team jump it, or respawn to prevent the cap), and the double stealth could be countered (spam aoe's around the doors) - the only counter for this, is to hope that the person on the other side isn't a sage/sorc and if they are, that they run out of force. (or abuse the other exploit that was previously mentioned) That is why i call it an exploit. Kind of like abusing the ramp in voidstar, to cap before the round started was an exploit - there was no way to counter it.

 

Either way it's against the TOS, "Disruptive behavior includes but is not limited to conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay..." because it interferes with the normal flow of the warzone. Once every enemy on your side of the wall is dead, there should be no issues dropping the barrier and progressing further in the warzone.

Edited by Evil_Santa
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Do any of the people QQing know what HACKING is?

 

Hint: it's not typing fast and making helicopters blow up, and it doesn't involve a 3D holo-graphic interface

 

You are confused. I can't say this enough. ALMOST. NO. ONE. IS. HACKING. PVP and the classes in general are just so broken you are seeing hacks where there are none. For example;

 

A powertech / Vanguard can be immune to root / snare / knockback with a little help for a complete war zone.

With the right combinations of buffs you can run at 300% speed for up to 9 seconds.

All knights and warriors can instantly fill their resolve bar without getting stunned.

A sentinel or marauder can exploit resolve and one ability to be immune to stun for 15+ seconds.

By leaping to a target and being pulled at the same time you can make yourself untargetable for long periods of time, or warp around the map

You can use the map to become immune to AOE damage in a number of ways

You can use the map to become untargetable in a number of ways

You can use any knock down ability in a way that makes it impossible to get up before the animation starts, effectively increasing the duration by 3-4 seconds.

Various other "animation lock" abilities can be used to increase the length of stuns to the point where you will have no resolve by the time they are finished, leading to chain stuns where it shouldn't be possible

 

These are exploits and NOT HACKING. And even then, 99% of all the QQ isn't even exploits and comes from a simple fact you NEED to understand before PVPing in SW:TOR

 

ALMOST EVERY CLASS HAS AT LEAST ONE ABILITY THAT IS BROKEN AND CRAZY OP IS USED CORRECTLY. On top of that, classes like Sent / Vaungard / and sumgs have the ability to do things that are so stupidly over powered (like stand there not taking damage for crazy amounts of time or killing you almost instantly) that people ASSUME THEY ARE HACKS when they are, in fact, just results of the way Bioware has designed the PVP game.

 

Last night playing voidstar a sage on my team tried to get everyone to report an operatives for hacking because he dropped out of stealth and killed him in 3 hits while he was stunned. THAT'S NOT A HACK, it's what operatives do. I've seen shadows reported for hacking in huttball because they ran the ball from start to finish using a SPEED HACK (force sprint) and a RESOLVE HACK which made them immune to stuns and root (resilience). Learn how broken the game is before crying hack.

 

I agree with you that people crying 'hack' are usually just ignorant about certain player abilities such as a sent's group speed buff which is extra fast for combat specced sents.

 

However some of the 'broken' abilities you mention simply don't exist. I'm not saying they are hacks, i'm saying you're making **** up. Explain to me how knights/warriors instantly fill their own resolve bar up without getting stunned? Perhaps you mean Guardians/Juggernauts can become immune to cc for a short period of time with 'Unremitting/Unstoppable' talented. This is NOT the same as filling up your own resolve bar, please don't spread misinformation.

 

Also, please tell me how a mara/sent can become immune to stun for 15+ seconds. This is just categorically untrue.

 

And about your 'map' exploits, perhaps you're just referring to the commonly used tactic of LOS? lol, that **** isn't new, and its not an exploit.

 

The 'knockdown' bug was exclusive to scoundrels and it involved using their hidden strike (imperial name) ability twice in the space of 2 globals by popping back into stealth immediately, so it seemed like you were knocked down for an eternity, it has been fixed for months now. There is NO knockdown ability that lasts for 4 seconds, nor is it possible to do it 'in such a way' as to extend the duration of the effect.

 

If you want people to take you seriously, mention the names of these so-called broken abilities and how they are used to exploit the game. I personally think you don't have a clue what you're talking about and that you haven't pvped all that much. I have spent a lot of time in this game pvping from when it came out, and not once have i seen any of these exploits you have mentioned.

 

Oh yeah, about the crazy amounts of time that a mara/sent can be invulnerable and how ptechs/vanguards can kill you 'almost instantly'. I'm not gonna dispute what is ridiculous hyperbole (almost instantly? if you were naked maybe), but its pretty obvious that those are not hacks and are just class abilities, overpowered though they may be. Nobody assumes they are hacks like you say, don't throw random **** in your argument just to prove your worthless point.

 

If you think the game is so damn broken, just quit. I can't understand why this game has so many mindless haters.

Edited by Soapland
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Placing an AoE is normal. Jumping through walls isn't normal. Dropping below floors isn't normal. I'm not sure why this is a contentious thing for you.

 

Preventing others from their objectives from a 100% safe location is not normal. If it is, then please tell me where in all of the warzones i can do this from.

Edited by Evil_Santa
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Preventing others from their objectives from a 100% safe location is not normal. If it is, then please tell me where in all of the warzones i can do this from.

 

The action is whether it''s an exploit or not. The result is whether it should be fixed. It's unbalanced and unfair. It should be fixed. But it's not on the same level as blatant exploiting. Why do you feel the need to argue this when the same basic response (fixing it) is shared between the two of us?

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The action is whether it''s an exploit or not. The result is whether it should be fixed. It's unbalanced and unfair. It should be fixed. But it's not on the same level as blatant exploiting. Why do you feel the need to argue this when the same basic response (fixing it) is shared between the two of us?

 

There's the difference, you see it as the action and i see it as the situation it creates, but i agree arguing at this point is pointless and it needs to be fixed - either by changing where the terminals are located, or putting a physical wall above the temporary wall.

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He's placing his AoE. That's not a hack or anything. Clever use of game mechanics.

 

You're right, it's not a hack because he's not interfering or manipulating game code to his benefit. It is however a clear exploit, as it creates an advantage that cannot be countered by using game design/mechanics in a way that was not intended. You are not meant to move or shoot through those shields. Doing so in order to prevent the opposing team from lowering the shields while you yourself cannot be targeted or stopped from denying the objective is not a clever use of game mechanics. Arguing over semantics is simply a sad attempt to rationalize cheating.

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For those who say there are no hackers.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfJ8lB2AoHk

Clear hacking. You cannot move that quick as an exploit.

 

You're right, it's not a hack because he's not interfering or manipulating game code to his benefit. It is however a clear exploit, as it creates an advantage that cannot be countered by using game design/mechanics in a way that was not intended. You are not meant to move or shoot through those shields. Doing so in order to prevent the opposing team from lowering the shields while you yourself cannot be targeted or stopped from denying the objective is not a clever use of game mechanics. Arguing over semantics is simply a sad attempt to rationalize cheating.

 

Actually, it is a hack. Look closely next time before you comment. only one player is moving faster then they should. It is not an exploit

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Actually, it is a hack. Look closely next time before you comment. only one player is moving faster then they should. It is not an exploit

 

You've becomne confused. The quote you referenced here was to a different vid, where someone was placing AOE in voidstar that could hit the other side of the forcefield. So doing something legal in the game that has consequences the designers probably hadn't considered and didn't intend. So it's not a hack, but needs fixing.

 

Interesting to see an actual vid with someone cheating - dated January 10th 2012. Which I'd guess makes it the speed hack that was fixed ages ago.

Edited by Wainamoinen
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Me = Carnage Marauder - I give improved predation to my team at the beginning - bring your own carnage marauder or you will not beat us to any objective point first... ever. It's not hacks, it's what my class does - and it's a royal pain to keep building fury to keep it up (i lose a lot of DPS and survivability if I want to keep building fury) - frenzy is a 2m30s cooldown that gives me a full stack of fury, so that only accounts for about 1/10 of the predations I use each warzone.

 

Hush you. You will give people another reason to ask for a marauder nerf

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Preventing others from their objectives from a 100% safe location is not normal. If it is, then please tell me where in all of the warzones i can do this from.

 

I commend you for capturing this on video and sharing it with us. This allowed us to skip over the "I don't believe you" part of the discussion.

 

It is clearly an exploit in that it is not working as intended and will probably be fixed in the future.

 

If more folks would fraps things like this we would have more productive conversations :)

 

As for folks who say "what is the problem"? I agree that the exploit is marginal enough that the exploiter should not be punished unless BW sends him an email saying "don't do that anymore".

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