I'm still trying to figure out exactly how politics fit in to any of this. Is Bioware going to be running for a Senator or something?

It doesn't really matter if they fix things one patch at a time or all at once, I don't care if they fix the companion romances one or two classes per week, or all at once, so long as they do it. Same with the flirt options, I don't care if they do it one or two planets at a time, or all at once, that's all irrelevant, the point is simply that we want them to do it. I doubt that even if they did it all in one patch it would make the patch all that big, since really all they're doing is removing the gender checks for the romances and flirts and adding in a bit of VA, hard to imagine that making the patch all that insanely big, but even if it did who cares, we've waited way over a year, waiting a couple weeks for the patch to come in parts wouldn't be a big deal.

 

As for the whole 'politics' thing, everybody's got an agenda, including the trolls. There isn't anybody who doesn't. The original decision to not allow us to have any romances was due to an agenda. The reason they haven't fixed it yet and given us what Skyrim, DA2, etc etc gives us is due to an agenda. Yes, some of the articles written also have an agenda in the other direction, but one part of them I agree with is the criticism, because its been way over a year and they still havent fixed this even though its super easy to do, so while we'd all love to believe they're telling the truth when they say they're still planning on doing it, the fact is they've brazenly lied about how 'unexpectedly hard' it was to do, when all it takes is disabling the gender checks, changing the occasional pronoun, and adding in the main character's voice, there's nothing unexpectedly hard about that. Now, just because one guy is a liar doesn't mean everybody that works for the game is one too, of course not, most are on our side, but it does mean you have to go on the assumption that they're not going to give us anything at all unless absolutely forced to by bad press, because that's the way its been so far, just lie or stay silent and give us nothing until the bad press gets so bad they had to do 'something', and by something they gave us about as little as humanly possible.

 

I have an agenda also. My agenda is fun. That is the agenda that Skyrim, DD, Fallout NV, etc. had. They weren't about being pro or anti SGR for political or any other kind of agenda reason, other than the fun agenda. What they did was because it made the game more fun. When people can play any romance they want, thats WAY WAY more fun than when they cant. Its also easier for the game designers to make it that way, which gives them more time to make the game better in other ways also. Games are supposed to be about fun, not taking fun away to promote an agenda. Thats what we want, we want the same romances and flirt options as everybody else, because its a lot more fun. And the fact that it would be SO easy for them to make that happen is what is the most frustrating part of the whole thing. That they've gone to such trouble, and told so many lies, etc. just to keep us from enjoying the same romances as everybody else, instead of just making the romance storylines the same as every other storyline in the game, its just crazy. In any other storyline in the game, you can play it regardless of gender. You might get your gender mentioned, you probably won't but you might, but either way you're allowed to play it, and enjoy it no matter what your gender is. To make the romance storylines unplayable is beyond stupid, it was done because of an agenda, and that agenda obviously isn't a pro-fun agenda. All we ask is that they make their agenda what it should have been all along, a pro-fun agenda. We know that most of the devs agree with us. Its the same as it was in the Mass Effect series, they aren't the ones making the decisions, but most folks at Bioware are on our side, even those in the SWTOR team. If/when the head dude decides its not worth all the bad press to keep us from enjoying the game the same as everybody else, we'll get the romances we want and everybody will be happy. They don't even have to make an official announcement, they can just slip it into their regularly scheduled patches that fix other various things that either add to the game or need fixing in the game, I don't care exactly how they do it, I just want to enjoy the game the same as everybody else. Thats it. Hopefully that will be sooner rather than later.

Now this is just entitlement issues. There is nothing that says they as a company need to have great communication with any part of the player base. It's a great thing when they do of course. It's an awesome thing! But when making a product (which is what they're doing) they shouldn't be forced into adding a feature they dont have the time/money/whatever to allocate to it, more so if they're not sure it'll be worth the time/money.

 

Look in this thread at what was posted. "Taking this to GLAAD" or "The devs are obviously anti-gay because it wasn't in, in the first place"

 

Now that it's started to be put in, the last one seems to be backtracked to "Oh, well, they handled the information poorly." you know, nevermind that they may not have known what would make it in where yet.

 

Congratulations on entirely missing the point. The post you're quoting was directly related to a blog post by a games developer on how people try and get information out of developers and are rude about it. I stated we tried being polite and it didn't work. I never said they were under some kind of contractual agreement to keep us informed.

 

Which, of course, you're aware of.

I have an agenda also. My agenda is fun.

 

Yes...completely agree with you there.

 

It would be fun to play that part of the story that has even been promoted on their Facebook page from time to time but hey I guess that's so wrong

I disgaree that it's going to be as easy as you say it is.

 

I can't imagine Andy going to a male SI and asking "Ever thought of having kids?" SGR would require different cut scenes and dialogue from what I've seen of them with the romance options.

 

Why I can believe "time and money" being the reason they werent put in, in the first place. MMOs have investors wanting a show on their investment. And unlike DA, ME ect, this is a game with multiple storylines going on. The others may have a few different options/endings, but they were basically one storyline games.

 

What I also meant by big patch was lots of work to go in and add in new dialogue and cut scenes. I mean really, for as much as you want SGR, do you want scenes that basically play out as OGR with a gender tag switch?

 

"One day you'll have my baby and we'll settle down together forever." You know, nevermind that they're both males now.

 

I'd hope for better than that. Also, I'm not entirely convinced scenes with dialogue would play out well

 

"Now you're a girl a scoundrel like me can settle down with" turns into "Now you're a...*small weird pause*guy*small weird pause*...a scoundrel like me can settle down with"

 

Do you even know if they have alternate dialogue recorded? We have no idea at what stage any SGR is at.

 

I've never heard anyone talk about seeing it in beta and it being removed, like so many other things, so it may not have even been made/recorded as they considered the time/money restraints early on.

Congratulations on entirely missing the point. The post you're quoting was directly related to a blog post by a games developer on how people try and get information out of developers and are rude about it. I stated we tried being polite and it didn't work. I never said they were under some kind of contractual agreement to keep us informed.

 

Which, of course, you're aware of.

 

Sooo...if you can't get the info you want out of the game devs, you go to being rude? This is a game I'm under the impression that you like since you play it, I'd hate to see how you treat game devs for a game you hate.

I've never heard anyone talk about seeing it in beta and it being removed, like so many other things, so it may not have even been made/recorded as they considered the time/money restraints early on.

 

I didn't see it in beta. If ANY of it is recorded then it never made it into the game files (those things will have been datamined like nobody's business).

 

I don't think it'll be easy and I haven't been given a convincing reason not to believe that time and budget constraints weren't amongst the reasons it was left out. I think it was perhaps unwise to put OGRAs in and leave SGRAs out but I can see the other side - if they had OGRAs done but not SGRAs and decided to leave them both out, then later down the track decided to add OGRAs in (because they were made) and not SGRAs (because they'd run out of money) one can imagine the uproar.

 

I'm willing to wait and see what Makeb brings. As I've said seevral times I think it'll be interesting as much for how it's presented as for what precise content is presented.

Sooo...if you can't get the info you want out of the game devs, you go to being rude? This is a game I'm under the impression that you like since you play it, I'd hate to see how you treat game devs for a game you hate.

 

Did I say I condoned being rude or attacking the developers? Call me crazy but I don't recall doing so.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Kioma

Did I say I condoned being rude or attacking the developers? Call me crazy but I don't recall doing so.

 

Likely in how I read it. "Dev talks about players being rude" then a comment about how "we tried being polite first"

I didn't see it in beta. If ANY of it is recorded then it never made it into the game files (those things will have been datamined like nobody's business).

 

I don't think it'll be easy and I haven't been given a convincing reason not to believe that time and budget constraints weren't amongst the reasons it was left out. I think it was perhaps unwise to put OGRAs in and leave SGRAs out but I can see the other side - if they had OGRAs done but not SGRAs and decided to leave them both out, then later down the track decided to add OGRAs in (because they were made) and not SGRAs (because they'd run out of money) one can imagine the uproar.

 

I'm willing to wait and see what Makeb brings. As I've said seevral times I think it'll be interesting as much for how it's presented as for what precise content is presented.

 

Unwise? Naaah. Figure the most likely player (target audience) is likely to have been fine with just OGR and not bent out of shape by a lack of SGR, means it wasn't unwise. It means it just sucks for the small minority group that can't play without it.

honestly, i would condone a little dev abuse. just look at blizzard, they get constantly assaulted, and it gets results. they always break. if it gets results, i'm all for it.

honestly, i would condone a little dev abuse. just look at blizzard, they get constantly assaulted, and it gets results. they always break. if it gets results, i'm all for it.

 

I'm under the impression they have the budget, more employees, and basically the ability to do things other MMO companies wish they could do :/

honestly, i would condone a little dev abuse. just look at blizzard, they get constantly assaulted, and it gets results. they always break. if it gets results, i'm all for it.

 

Blizzard does what they want. Yes, the respond when they feel they should, but it's just the fact that gamers are constantly being such a pill to them that they think that's what pushing them to make changes but it's really not. There are times when consumers need to get angry, but being downright abusive and insulting is never going to help matters.

 

And "results" is in the eye of the beholder. They're pretty slow, honestly. They had some very crippling exploits going on with PVP at MOP's launch and it took them forever to fix it. There's so many basic quality of life stuff that other games have had at launch that Blizzard still hasn't picked up on, a lot of class balance/utility issues, cosmetic issues, that they have promised they'd work on, and haven't got to.

Edited January 16, 2013 by chuixupu

I could care less if there were any romance options in the game its unnecessary any ways. Regardless of what they said the intended to do early on it shouldn't affect actual improving the game after the fact.

 

If you want same gender relationship RP with a friend in the game. I would imagine that would be more fulfilling then a cut scene fade to black/occasional flirt option. I would rather see money invested in real game development and not npc relationships.

I could care less if there were any romance options in the game its unnecessary any ways. Regardless of what they said the intended to do early on it shouldn't affect actual improving the game after the fact.

 

I'm sorry, but I think you're missing a "not" in your first sentence.

 

When you say you could care less, it means that you care at least a little bit - so you can care less than that amount.

 

On the other hand, when you say you can't care less, it means that you care so little about it, that you couldn't care any less than that amount of care, which is 0.

 

And if that made sense to you, I'm glad. I have a feeling it's a little wordy, and my point might have got lost in all the verbage.

 

What I'm trying to say is, you meant to say that you "couldn't care less".

 

If you want same gender relationship RP with a friend in the game. I would imagine that would be more fulfilling then a cut scene fade to black/occasional flirt option. I would rather see money invested in real game development and not npc relationships.

 

It's not the same. None of my RL friends play SWTOR, and my partner plays so little (that is to say, not at all any more), that I have no one to RP with. I've had some pretty bad experiences with RPing in MMOs - enough that I prefer to do my RPing in RL groups (of my friends)... I play MMOs for other reasons - in SWTOR, one of those would have been SGRs if they had been available.

If you want same gender relationship RP with a friend in the game. I would imagine that would be more fulfilling then a cut scene fade to black/occasional flirt option. I would rather see money invested in real game development and not npc relationships.

 

Then roleplay the OGRs with other players, pretend you have world PvP by turning the PvP flag on and going out into the world, pretend you have new end-game PvE content by making your own challenges in existing content and /sit on chairs to have useable chairs.

 

Really, though, if you want to express your displeasure at Bioware being progressive, there's already a thread for that. This is not that thread.

Look who cares about all this SGR junk. BioWare needs to just include the content in an update for free instead of charging (as some reports are stating) and everyone else raising a stink, let it go. Its with a companion so who really cares?? I mean in all reality, if homosexuality has been around as long as humanity has been, did you ever expect it to not exist in the future?? People, pick your battles. Is this really worth 500+ pages of debate? Like so many have said before, if you have a problem with SGR but not with slaughtering people and looting their corpses, perhaps you should re-evaluate your thought processes. All in all, its a game and the LGBT folks are still people too. BioWare (what's left of you) you've already under enough fire over this game as is, don't create another reason to run folks away from this game. Find a happy medium and play on.

Look who cares about all this SGR junk. BioWare needs to just include the content in an update for free instead of charging (as some reports are stating) and everyone else raising a stink, let it go. Its with a companion so who really cares?? I mean in all reality, if homosexuality has been around as long as humanity has been, did you ever expect it to not exist in the future?? People, pick your battles. Is this really worth 500+ pages of debate? Like so many have said before, if you have a problem with SGR but not with slaughtering people and looting their corpses, perhaps you should re-evaluate your thought processes. All in all, its a game and the LGBT folks are still people too. BioWare (what's left of you) you've already under enough fire over this game as is, don't create another reason to run folks away from this game. Find a happy medium and play on.

 

Pffft. this issue will drive away such a small percentage of a percentage of the player base, it's why it's something that didn't get put in from that start when they were running out of time and money.

 

From my experience in a few large guilds, most (<---see that word usage there for the ones who say "but I don't) people wouldn't mind SGR, but since they're not a possibility, they just roll the opposite gender character to the companion they want to romance.

Then roleplay the OGRs with other players, pretend you have world PvP by turning the PvP flag on and going out into the world, pretend you have new end-game PvE content by making your own challenges in existing content and /sit on chairs to have useable chairs.

 

Really, though, if you want to express your displeasure at Bioware being progressive, there's already a thread for that. This is not that thread.

 

Hmmm...have RPed OGR and SGR with friends. Is textfighting pretending you have world PvP flag set? Likely. RP storylines with guilds...yeah, that likely accounts for new end-game PvE content.

 

I say this mostly because I don't recall the poster saying they were against SGR, thusly they didn't really show displeasure with the idea, just they thought other areas needed more attention.

 

Though I notice a habit of posters in this thread seeming to think (as your post comes off as) anyone who isn't OMG FOR IT is against it.

What is for sure is that every body is laughting at this game all over the internet and Makeb has a new name that I can't use here for not getting banned.

I say this mostly because I don't recall the poster saying they were against SGR, thusly they didn't really show displeasure with the idea, just they thought other areas needed more attention.

Though I notice a habit of posters in this thread seeming to think (as your post comes off as) anyone who isn't OMG FOR IT is against it.

That's not what she said. She said it's silly to suggest to people to roleplay SGR in the game, as if it was something we never thought of. I think what we want is quite clear, and it's not RPing with other gamers. We want SGR comparable to OGR. It's really fairly easy to understand.

 

What is for sure is that every body is laughting at this game all over the internet and Makeb has a new name that I can't use here for not getting banned.

I'm not laughing. It's juvenile and badly researched to talk of Makeb as the 'gay planet'. It's not something I can take very seriously.

 

I'm not laughing. It's juvenile and badly researched to talk of Makeb as the 'gay planet'. It's not something I can take very seriously.

 

Just Wait and see.

Just Wait and see.

 

Nope. No reason to. It's silly banter that happened with Mass Effect and Dragon Age too. I even remember reading articles about SWTOR when it first started, how it contained 'slave and S&M content' (Vette). Articles like these are sensationalist and they entertain only for a short amount of time. Then the yellow press will find another topic to waste time on.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Lent_San

Good way to learn patience.

 

And just a note, my saying start with Quinn wasn't based on my favorite class, as that goes to BH.

 

The one at a time idea is based on the idea that it starts putting SGR with the original companions in, while still focusing on other content, instead of "Patch 2.1 the SGR patch, new big patch in 10 weeks!"

 

Well, as my argument went back when I thought proper SGR was going to be implemented with Makeb, it would make sense for them to record/script/animate companion SGR at the same time as some other content that involves the voice actors.

 

Such as a proper continuation of the class stories, complete with new companion dialogue. Or a more general overhaul of pre-50 content, since the lead writer has mentioned wanting to change and add a few things here and there.

 

I could care less if there were any romance options in the game its unnecessary any ways. Regardless of what they said the intended to do early on it shouldn't affect actual improving the game after the fact.

 

If you want same gender relationship RP with a friend in the game. I would imagine that would be more fulfilling then a cut scene fade to black/occasional flirt option. I would rather see money invested in real game development and not npc relationships.

 

Hey, guys! Let's stop bothering BioWare about a continuation of the class stories! We can just RP it all with other players instead!

 

And I see you resort to the cliché and completely off-mark argument that the romance is all about the fade-to-black implied sex scene, rather than it being about the journey that leads there.

Edited January 16, 2013 by JediMB

Hey, guys! Let's stop bothering BioWare about a continuation of the class stories! We can just RP it all with other players instead!

And I see you resort to the cliché and completely off-mark argument that the romance is all about the fade-to-black implied sex scene, rather than it being about the journey that leads there.

Agreed. That's exactly it. I couldn't care less about the fade-to-black.

It's the journey that I'd like to see, the gifts, the conversations, that's the part I enjoy.