All that aside you seem to be implying that BW should make every possible random allocation of talents not only function coherently but be equally optimal as proper build which if you knew about how hard it is to balance 8 unique classes in pve and pvp perfectly is impossible with only 'cookie cutter' builds let alone hybrids.

 

I don't think anyone is asking for random talents having synergy with each other or anything like that. But currently, each tree has junk talents in it. A lot of them. And they're fairly obvious.

 

When was the last time you saw someone SKIP Energize but take 3/3 Shroud of Darkness. When was the last time you saw someone skip Avoidtance, but max Recirculation instead? And when was the last time you saw take Oppressive Force but skip Torment? I've never seen it. Not once. Ever. Period.

 

Now, let me ask you, why are those talents there? Nobody will take them. I mean NOBODY in their right mind will take them! You have a limited number of points, and in every tier there's no-brainer skills that MUST be taken, and every tier has talents that can be skipped with no noticeable loss of...well...anything!

 

Now, instead of doing it that way, why not make all those talents worthwhile? That is, instead of the choice being obvious, where you are essentially being told "TAKE THIS!", and only given an ILLUSION of choice, why not actually give people the choice?

 

Balancing? Not good enough. You have a limited number of talent points, so you would have to make some choices, can't have everything. And as long as talents are well thought out, balancing shouldn't be an issue. Besides, the game balance right now is horribly broken anyway, even with the trees we have now.

 

I don't know. Call me old fashioned, but I like actual choice over an illusion of choice.

It's weird to me because why on earth would you change tooltips and not implement the actual changes...?

 

In essence you are braking your own game by not having the abilities do what they say they do.

The talent tree design, which is obviously inspired by WoW, is imo the most stupid specialization design around....

 

...Imo, the best spec design in the MMO world is still that of Dark Age of Camelot...

 

Yes, yes, so much yes. I've been saying this since WoW came out. The DAoC system was incredible because two people of the same class would not have all of the same abilities at level 50 if they speced differently. The whole idea that every person that plays a certain class should get every ability available to that class in asinine. All classes are essentially copies of each other with the only difference being one may hit 5% harder while the next guy might proc a shield on a heal. Nothing unique there... Give my a DAoC style system... Or hell, think WAY out of the box and stick a Titan Quest style system into an MMO. Too bad Bliz has turned the entire world off MMO players into a bunch of morons who need to have everything layed out for them nice and easy or they just whine and ***** about every little f'n thing....

I believe the move against hybridization is bc it's easier to balance 3 viable builds with minor variations than our what 7 or 8 builds that we have come up with using hybrid specs.

 

That being said I am strongly against removing viability of hybrids. If anything BW should encourage hybrid play. I have always hated the tree system of speccing myself. It limits creativity

 

In a perfect world rather than talent trees I would make it so each ability can be specialized with talent points rather than a tree system revolving around a specific role you can build up the abilities you want to use for your playstyle rather than a predesigned spec and hope your personal style fits into it. For example you would go into the skill tree and have a picture of each ability say you click on shock, in the shock mini-tree you would have the option to put points into any talent that directly affects shock. Now you can put all your eggs in one basket and just have an uber shock but chances are you will be more successful modding a variety of abilities in your rotation. Finally there would be one symbol for new abilities these abilities could be unlocked if you had spent x amount of points modding a specific ability. Say for dark ward it would in this scenario require you spend x points modding dark charge before you can take it. That would exist solely to prevent everyone from having all the speccable abilities.

 

However, the world is not perfect so all we can do is wait for the patch that might change the abilities to go to PTS log on test them and protest.

In a perfect world there would be utility specs that are as good at doing utility as a dps spec is as good at doing dps. That you could go 15/15/11 and do the same amount of damage as 5/5/31, but have a different playstyle. Thats the world I want to live in. It seems bioware wants me to live in a world where I can play 1 of 3 builds and my only real choice is do I want an extra pve utility talent or one extra pvp talent... Yay...

The thing some of you refuse to acknowledge is that hybriding is still possible, and still viable. The major mindset difference is that you no longer gain all the benefits from a single stance/charge, thus builds like 23/0/18 won't be significantly better than the pure builds because you'd have to actually act like a hybrid; rather than just have your cake and eat it too, at next to no cost or effort. This is how it SHOULD be. However, I would say that this is only half the problem. The other half is that the trees themselves do need work. Rather than protest against the system the developers intended from day one, try giving suggestions to make the trees themselves better. Edited February 2, 2012 by Vastalee
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Totally lame...if they really want to prevent players from dabbling with hybrids then they need to start with making the 31 point talents stronger....

When was the last time you saw someone SKIP Energize but take 3/3 Shroud of Darkness. When was the last time you saw someone skip Avoidtance, but max Recirculation instead? And when was the last time you saw take Oppressive Force but skip Torment? I've never seen it. Not once. Ever. Period.

 

I don't know. Call me old fashioned, but I like actual choice over an illusion of choice.

If we're going to talk about WoW like talent tree system did we ever really have a choice? I mean when wow launched talent trees were bloated with even even weaker/more junk talents , most classes only had one functioning tree in one functioning role and if you wanted to spec anything else you had to ****.

 

All this illusion of choice talk has really sprung up over the the new MoP talent system thing; Yes GC has a point talents that only increase crit on one ability by 5% are boring and talents that aren't that interesting or you only take because you have 2 points left and nothing is better isn't fun.

But is the MoP talent system even really better? All they're doing is rolling all the baseline talents into the spec and leaving you with a bunch of utility options that by and large don't overly matter all that much (except for maybe 1 or 2 bosses who might have a mechanic you can work around) or obvious no brainer talents that everyone will take (an believe it or not there are still junk talents no one will take, I'm looking at you Runic empowerment).

 

I understand that pvp lends itself more towards solo survivability/ utility and hybridization becomes a more desirable state but when you end up with sorcs speccing across three trees just never ending spamming force lightning and healing through getting trained you have problems.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260938):

 

Sith Inquisitor

 

Assassin

All Saber Charges now cost 100 Force.

Lightning Charge’s Discharge now also deals damage when applied. Overall damage dealt by this ability has not changed.

 

Darkness

Charge Mastery: No longer increases the duration of Lightning Charge’s Discharge effect. It now increases the damage dealt by Lightning Charge.

Energize: This skill now also triggers from Assassinate. It now triggers from damage dealt (rather than ability use) such that each hit of Assassinate, Thrash, and Lacerate have an individual chance to yield the Energize buff. The chance to trigger has been reduced to 30% per hit.

Harnessed Darkness: Stacks of Harnessed Darkness now last 30 seconds. Using Wither now yields a stack of Harnessed Darkness.

 

Deception

Induction: Now requires the Surging Charge skill to be purchased and requires that Surging Charge is active in order to trigger the Induction buff. This skill now also triggers from Assassinate.

 

Madness (Shared Tree)

Crackling Charge: Now additionally lowers the cooldown of Discharge while Lightning Charge is active.

Raze: Now triggers from activating melee attacks that hit a target affected by Lightning Charge’s Discharge effect. This effect now triggers more easily but cannot trigger as frequently.

Death Field: Heals the caster for 1% of maximum health for each target struck. This healing effect can no longer crit and no longer consumes Recklessness charges.

Devour: Now doubles the amount of healing generated by Death Field and Parasitism.

If they wanted to make a game more fun and emphasize hybrids, some mmo should make every class a hybrid by design. Sure this doesn't really solve the problem of the trinity (tank, dps, healer), but they could make a game more dynamic and fun by giving all classes the capability to do two of the three trinity roles to the maximum potential. They could take it one step further and actually require the players to switch back and forth between their roles to prevent a raid from failing.

The problem with hybrid specs is the low tier abilities shouldn't be able to beat out the upper tier abilities.

 

Think of it this way:

 

Lets say you have a guy that can do some plumbing and some framing. He can get a house partially built and get some piping in it, but nothing will truly function fully.

 

Compare that to a specialized framer. He can build the entire house but he wont have plumbing.

 

Lastly compare that to what you people want: A guy that can build the house and do the plumbing and get full functionality from both.

 

Talk about breaking the game.

 

The point is, Hybrids should not get full functionality in anything they do. Whereas full specs will have full functionality of that spec.

 

You can see that being specialized affords some extra benefits, but the hybrids get some other benefits that don't directly give you the upper hand, but instead give you subtle changes that let you take on a slightly different group of enemies without giving you a win button.

 

In conclusion imagine two situations:

1) single spec dies, hybrid spec wins

2) single spec wins quickly, hybrid spec wins slowly

 

In scenario 1 the hybrid spec has the benefit of surviving the battle, in contrast to scenario 2 where they both win. In scenario 2, however, the hybrid fight should take longer and maybe even be slightly more difficult.

 

Scenario 1 is the benefit, Scenario 2 is the cost.

 

Essentially hybrids should survive more environments but at the cost of difficulty to play. You want options? You're going to have to pay for them. The cost? Very powerful top tier talents. That's the economic trade off.

 

If this game was about hybrid specs being the best option, why not go the whole nine yards and just give everyone 62 talent points. That way you can have two full specs; true hybrid gameplay; everyone would be hybrid.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Bamzamma

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260938):

 

Sith Inquisitor

 

Madness (Shared Tree)

Crackling Charge: Now additionally lowers the cooldown of Discharge while Lightning Charge is active.

Raze: Now triggers from activating melee attacks that hit a target affected by Lightning Charge’s Discharge effect. This effect now triggers more easily but cannot trigger as frequently.

Death Field: Heals the caster for 1% of maximum health for each target struck. This healing effect can no longer crit and no longer consumes Recklessness charges.

Devour: Now doubles the amount of healing generated by Death Field and Parasitism.

 

Madness is the new OP.

It has allways been and you all never seen that

i really cant even believe this right now there going to nerf assassins of all freaking classes completely ruined the only build i enjoyed 23/0/18 WHY WHY WHY WHY this my last month of this awful game for sure

 

 

 

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i really cant even believe this right now there going to nerf assassins of all freaking classes completely ruined the only build i enjoyed 23/0/18 WHY WHY WHY WHY this my last month of this awful game for sure

 

 

 

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I enjoyed tanking as 23/0/18, pvping as 27/14/0, DPSing as 0/13/28... the only pure spec i enjoyed was 2/31/8 for pvp because wither sucks so much to go full darkness, now... im probably also cancelling my subscription because of these changes.

You know if as many people actually unsubbed as they claimed they were going to every time a new patch came out wow would have shut down long ago.

Lots of subs just like to vent and want to tell someone they are pissed and unsubbing but in reality they are just unhappy about the changes but will still play.

 

But seriously, to many kids in these games that blow a spazz because the game is being balanced and tweaked to work in designed theory. These same kids just need a old fasion spanking.

 

These changes are fine, and not very drastic at all, actually kind of mild. So relax, have a soda and eat a cookie, game will improve over time.

I think its just stupid, its like buying a car from a dealer and them telling you you can't paint it a different color because its "not one of the intended colors".

 

No ability to change your leveling path.

No free-form space

No ability to wander on a planet because of a million walls and canyons or mountains

No choice in your companions

No choice of ship

 

Where did you ever get the idea that this was anything but a game on rails? You'll play the way the devs want you to play or they'll change the game to make you.

I'll admit the metaphor was a little extreme, but why are they changing something that has no negative effect on the game? I would understand if said spec was broken and OP in pvp but it wasn't. I don't understand why they don't just make the other options more attractive to play as. It seems like they are needlessly limiting our options because its not the way "THEY" intended it to be played. If I didn't pay for the game it would be understandable as well. It is also probably worth mentioning that in starting this spec I meant more for pvp instead of pve, i understand there will always be cookie cutter specs in pve because you want the highest possible output in said class role, but in pvp pure numbers isn't everything.

This came out right when I found a build I liked 2/31/8, which i run in dark charge. Now I will need to take surging charge and die way too fast in warzones if I want to keep the idea of the build.

 

Do a bit more dps (pulling 20%-30% from my ***), but lose 150% armor buff. <sarcasm>Seems like a fair trade.</sarcasm>

Edited February 2, 2012 by lotusedge

The reason is simple.They designed all assasin specs purposely bad and they are killing hybrids to make assasin useless because sith inquisher is mostly played class. They will nerf sorcs in close future.They are buffing least played classes, nerfing most played classes and pretending they do opposite.

The reason is simple.They designed all assasin specs purposely bad and they are killing hybrids to make assasin useless because sith inquisher is mostly played class. They will nerf sorcs in close future.They are buffing least played classes, nerfing most played classes and pretending they do opposite.

 

I don’t agree. We have nothing to complain about. Look at what happened to the smuggler and operative. Those players need to relearn their class. I think the Assassin class is probably the most well thought out. It’s the other classes which need tweaking. We appear to be underpowered, but that is a good place to be in the long run, as the major nurf bats will be elsewhere while we master our role.

 

Last, I think the biggest problems with assassins in general are: A, we’re too numerous, therefore a target for most angry players and B, a lot of impatient players are rolling this class for “sexiness” rather than learning how to play this class for effectiveness.

 

All said, we can use a little boost, WHICH MAY COME. A better side of the fence if you ask me….. And every operative and smuggler out there.

If and when the nerf happens, at least give us more survivability.... as deception with surging charge i'm like a glass cannon without the *********** cannon..... I can barley get sorcs/sages to half health before they shield/knock me back and then proceed to **** my face until i have to vanish..... Its really pathetic.. we need an actual opener and our abilities need to be looked over for change because right now it's just not working...... unless tank spec we are dps with i'd say the least survivability (other than OP's possibly its really close) with probably the 4th-5th highest dps capability... Ops>merc>sorc>mara>sin IMO. some of those depending on player and gear.. but either way we are a melee glass cannon with no cannon so please fix us....... melee is hard enough in pvp

So BW thinks we should all play cookie cutter builds? Cool.

I wouldn't say that so much as they want you to take the 31 point talent in the tree you decided to "spec". Or at least that is what i have gathered from all of their past and proposed changes