Cross server queues would do the most for us, i think. Premades would have no excuse to be rolling PUGs if ranked popped. All of these other issues would be better if each game was competitive. I can deal with being stunned if the game is competitive. Being chain stunned in a roflstomp is frustrating, and Bioware has got to know this. Implement cross server, now!

I remember back in beta when i used to take tons of time and write long well thought out posts about these issues.

 

I remember pretty much none of the suggestions and observations from those posts being taken seriously by the dev team.

 

Vitriol and disdain are my weapons now.

Implement cross server, now!

 

Cross-server has been confirmed as being on "the back burner". If you see it in 2013 (or ever) I would be very surprised

Edited December 16, 2012 by Veniras

PvP. PvP in SWTOR gets me fired up like nothing since WoW PvP did in the early days of it. It has also gone through some pretty drastic changes lately, and I disagree with most of these changes. Indeed, I feel that many of these changes were not needed, and have made the PvP balance and level of fun in PvP worse. I am going to cover all of the issues that I feel need addressed here, and I welcome discussion - but no flaming or finger pointing please, rational discussion only, of these topics. I will start with more general topics, and get down to the more class specific balance issues later.

 

Resolve

 

I understand how resolve works, but I simply don't like it. It's a lackluster system. In return for being stunned for up to 18 seconds straight, you get a few seconds of cc immunity. During this CC immunity, you will likely be slowed or rooted and unable to act anyway. This can be punishing for ranged classes, but it is especially punishing to melee. Every class has multiple stuns, snares, slows, and roots available to them. In general, you can spend up to 30-40% of your time in a warzone unable to act. Loss of control is one of the biggest complaints that people have in PvP. A much better system would be similar to what WoW has in place, where stuns, snares, and roots all have diminishing returns - the more you get stunned/snared/rooted, the less effect they have on you. Someone has suggested a system like this that would even use resolve. Rather than resolve ticking down to zero once you hit the cap, it diminishes slowly over time, and the higher your resolve currently is, the more resistant to stuns, roots, mezes, and ballistics you are. For example, 80% resolve would give you an 80% reduction in the time you are stunned, amount of time rooted, amount of slow % applied, and % chance to be pulled or pushed. Resolve should also build faster, I think 1.5x the current rate would be fair. Resolve would constantly diminish at a rate of say 50 per second. This is just one of many suggestions, but the current resolve system is simply not adequate. It is not fun. Recent class balance changes have brought to light just how unfun it is

 

A well thought out and intelligent post. I just wanted to touch on this part, I think (and said at launch) resolve should work this way:

 

All non-slow Mezzs should be Force/Tech based attacks (Force Stun, Force Leap Immoblize, Choke, Flash Bang)

**All Slows should be 'white' attacks (can miss, we'll ignore dodge/shield/etc mechanics for now)

 

Then change resolve to a % based resist chance. A 4 second stun adds 40 resolve (40% chance), and begins decreasing 3 seconds AFTER the stun ENDS at a rate of 10/s. A root adds 20 or 25 resolve(?).

IE 0/100 Resolve, any stun will land on you.

50/100 Resolve, 50% you'll get stunned, 50% chance you'll resist it.

100/100 Resolve, immunity for 3 seconds but gradual resist lost for 10 seconds.

 

This would reward INTELLIGENT use of stuns during large scale PvP and 1v1, instead of the current "stun'em early and often" we deal with.

 

**Slows could be added in to give resolve, and maybe they should be. But it would have to at a reduced rate. And some kind of mechanic to fix attacks that have built in slows (Force Lightning, Vanguard burn effect if talented, etc).

 

 

Who knows, maybe that idea totally blows. But at this point anything is better than what we have. I've always favored games that encourage intelligent use of CC.

Thought out post yes, intelligent quite

Subjective as hell? check check and triple check.

 

While i respect your opinion on the matter, and posting long topics is generally something i like reading, most of the things you say are just too subjective and do not take into account things like resources/resource management/profit/time investment vs return/etc. it's really a wasted effort.

 

We all want a perfect game but it just isn't going to happen. What you could do is understand how some of the things i mentioned above impact development of a title, and what changes could go through to actually HIT Live.

 

As long as money and profit dictate the life expectancy of a title, there will not be game that can make the majority of its player-base happy (by majority in this case i mean something like 90%, since 100% is impossible at any time)

 

Please continue and bring forth ideas and suggestions; you never really know what may become reality. Just don't think that because you have an idea that might be accepted by your peer it automatically means you are able to design a game of this magnitude.

 

P.S. Before anyone starts jumping the gun on me, no i do not think Bioware did a marvelous job on this game either. There are plenty of things that could have been, can be and should be done better. The game is neither great nor bad at this point, and honestly, mediocrity in the MMO market can sometimes be more harmful to a game than being outright terrible.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Frozenshiva

Well some of us have been giving suggestions and analysis for quite some time. There was a lot of feedback in the "class feedback" Sorcerer forums quite some time ago but bioware never even posted. The only replies the sorceror class tends to get are in other classes forums or the pvp forums referencing us about the bubble stun problem.

 

It becomes disheartening after a while. At the very least I would like my sorcerer's melee attacks to benefit from willpower so I can actually pretend I have a light-saber instead of only hitting people for 300 damage or less

If this game fixes rage spec, bubble stuns, mercs, cross server pvp is implemented I will probably upload a video of myself singing my humps.

 

 

screenied this

 

if they fix it me and the rest of resilience will hold you to it:D

 

@Aluvian, love the post, pretty much covered every issue i have with pvp right now, espeacially rage/focus, im nowhere near being a "good" player but even i find i do too much damage with it.

 

regarding bubbles, i agree, the resolve given is too little, i played a novare coast earlier vs a physics premade and they had 3 bubble stuns, stunning and rooting me for over 4 minutes straight, i was unable to do while they freecasted heals, and as soon as i leaped or smashes, bubbles and rooted

Bumped

I deeply agree with the OP.

Bioware,

 

First off, let me say that I have enjoyed your games for a very long time.

 

<.................>

Good post. I do agree with most of it. Resolve propositions seem fishy, though, and I think it'll break what's left of the current CC balance.

 

That said, I do agree that Resolve/CC needs major reworks.

Thank you for all the responses guys/gals. Honestly, I just had to get this stuff off my chest, but at this point I have very little hope that any of this will even be considered. I don't blame Bioware necessarily. They are a company, and companies exist to make money. From their standpoint, balancing PvP to satisfy the needs/wants of current players is probably low on the totem pole of their to do list. Their sub rate is down, and to the people running the business, that means that they need to bring in new customers, so they keep adding new things into the game without fixing the current game.

 

Right now I am just playing this game until a new one comes along. I haven't seen anything that is anywhere near as promising as this game was at the start yet. What really bugs me is that Bioware was a company that I really had a great deal of faith in for producing very high quality, entertaining games. All of the games listed in my original post, I love them to death. I love SWTOR too, but damn, it could be so much better, so much more.

 

Sadly I think the majority of players on SWTOR are still here because WoW is dumb, and there's nothing else out there.

i heard eve online was good

 

and i heard they are making elder scrolls online.

I enjoyed your original post but i had some issues with it.

 

I don't know if you have played the ranged DPS classes in this game but, it seems like you haven't. Ranged are at a huge disadvantage in this game and the only DPS that is even considered decent is the sniper, and that is because of Cover

 

The gap closing/gap Opening mini game that goes on in any MMO, is extremely in favor of melee at the moment. It is just too easy for the majority of melee to close a gap, and kiting is almost non existent in this game. only a full Madness sorcerer can kite with any sort of real effectiveness, but there damage is **** against anyone who is wort a damn, and they can't burst at all.

 

because Kiting is already so poor in this game you can't include roots on resolve, **** they need to take knockbacks grabs and pull off resolve. Resolve should not prevent gap closing or opening. Those tools are essential for those class to create a gap, and unless they prevent warriors from leaping to a full resolve target, them my knockback should work against a full resolve warrior.

 

Granted KBs are too prevalent in this game, so putting them on resolve was necessary, but that has to change. The KB bouncing that goes on is absolutely frustrating. For instance i don't think Comm/Mercs should have a KB and instead should of different tools for creating a gap, maybe a jet jump to a target location that can funciton with the Z axis.

Assasins don't need a KB either. Honestly only Juggs/snipers and sorceres should have a KB.

 

KB C/Ds are also too short in this game 45sec would be perfect, 20-25sec is just too short. If the range with KBs need better gap opening to compensate than it should come it buffs to an existing ability or add a new ability.

 

Roots to need to be on some sort of system to prevent rooting someone forever, however that has to be completely independent of resolve which should only function for stuns and stuns that break on damage, otherwise you just have too many problems.

 

I don't believe resolve should decay it should actually grant you some time of immunity.

 

IMO resolve should be reworked to incorporate DR. Essentially the resolve bar would be go 0-1200 and broken into 3 section. 0-400, if your resolve is less then 400 a cc lasts for its full duration. 400-800, cc last for 50% its total duration, and finally 800-1200 CC last for only 25% of its standard duration. At full resolve you are immune for X amount. Hard stuns would generate 100 resolve per second, Stuns that break on damage would generate 50 resolve per sec. Abilities should have the resolve they generate placed on the tool tip.

 

Finally this game needs less hard stuns. Why is it that every class has a hard stun, mezzs should be the dominant form of CC not stuns. I don't mind being CC, i hate being CC'd and damage dealt to me to the point where i can die without ever being able to do anything.

 

I would prefer to see Sorc and some other classes loose their stuns in favor of much shorter C/Ds on their mezzs and a possibly shorter cast time on the mezzs. The mezz should not me instant either, players should have a way to counter or interrupt CC. I believe that having more mezzs be the dominate form of CC and stuns being more rare would overall create a better PVP environment where people aren't killed inside CC and CC isn't tossed around like battlefield like candy.

 

Class balance does need some work, and i agree with most of your feedback there with a few exceptions.

 

Concealment Operative: damage is fine and mobility is pretty good, but fine for a stealth spec. The problem with them energy managment, pretty much for all DPS operatives energy management is terrible and you find yourself using your basic attack far to often. Fiquire out energy management and they will be, since this is the major reason why their sustained is horrible in PvE/PvP.

 

DPS Sorcerers: Madness is relatively fine sustained damage wise, but it desperately needs some form of burst, the wrath proc just doesn't do it since Lightning Strike still hits for **** and Ch rushing Darkness initial hit isn't that great.

Lightning is just flat out brokenly bad. Partially because kiting is a ***** in this game, and secondly everything has a cast time, and they do terrible damage. Lightning strike sucks, chain lightning doesn't hit that hard and thundering Blast is quite frankly disappointing for a tree topping ability with a 2sec cast time. Fixing this spec requires it to be able to kite more effectively and damage increases, either through proc chance increases or actually increasing damage of thing like lightning strike, and it could also use a way to get an instant cast Thundering Blast that increases its damage. Perhaps Lightning Storms proc could work with TB. Lightning is quite possibly the worst spec in the game for PvP.

Both spec could also use an actual defensive C/D, they are too dependent on the Bubble. Bubble stun is flat out broken, should not be in the game in any form. The stun doesn't play kindly with resolve. If you make it generate normal resolve, then the sorc would have their opponent full resolve in no time with no way to escape since KB currently don't function against resolve targets. Remove the talent all together and replace it with something else.

 

Rage/Focus: just flat out broken and needs to be redesigned to work around a single target ability. Damage would still need to come down, but the core of the problem is that this is an AOE hitting harder than any other single target attack in the game, Master Strike and a Unload with all ticks beings crits withstanding.

 

Sentinals/Marauder: If the gap opening/closing model isn't adjusted so that ranged can more easily kite i would say that this class needs its defensive abilities nerfed or one of them cut. They are by far and away the hardest non tank speced class to kill. With all the stun issues this may not seem like an issue but if those actually get fixed this problem will be more noticeable than it is now and they will continue to be the go to for melee dps.

 

Merc/Commando: Flat out broken, worst healer, and worst DPS for PvP. Damage really isn't a problem with any DPS spec, they mainly suffere from a lack of kiting ability since they are heavily reliant on casting, even Pryo needs to be able to cast. Their Burst/Sustained is fine, they just can't escape long enough to get off necessary casts and subsequently die to easily, Adrenalin Rush could use a Buff for all trooper and BH advanced classes. Assualt/Pyro for merc/mando could possibly use some better resource management tools.

 

Other than that i think everything else is going relatively well for the type of PvP we have. I would love some space PvP and good world PvP that makes the two factions actually feel like there is a war going on.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Megamaid

I also might add that juggs/guardians are pretty insane at the moment. I've seen them do as much as sentinels and still offer taunts and guarding for points.

 

I think the main thing that is making PvP bad is that Force Sweep and Dispatch are just so far out there for the classes that nothing can stand up to them. It really is a game of who has the most guardians on the team and at least one healer.

 

Scrapper Scoundrel's DPS concern is not just energy problems, it's that there is no good rotation (it's even worse in PvE) and the fact that they are doing so little damage now that everyone has expertise it's pointless to play as them because every single other dps class does more damage and has more utility. The stuns the scoundrel have are way less powerful over all than the stuns that a guardian has, but they cause resolve to build up more. A guardian for example can leap, stun, force choke, snare, and given a couple more seconds leap again or guardian leap to get closer if you happen to be able to run away, all while doing 4x the damage.

Things i'd like to be changed.

 

Jedi guardian/SIth Warrior. Remove autocrit from smash/force sweep. No more power/surge stacking. It has to go.

 

Operative/Scoundrel dps is fine. No changes there needed.

 

Merecnary/Commando dps is fine as pyro. Some are doing nice numbers, most do not. They are easy to solo and that is all.

 

Sorcerer/Sage needs some serious burst. We die so fast in light armor. Maybe make alacrity shorten the dot's duration (faster dot ticks). Or make our death field increase the damage of our next dots by 40-50%? Also don't like the force management in madness spec. As hybrid or lightning it may be ok but not in madness. You can run out very fast esp vs few healers (our basic attack is melee! and doesn'r restore our force lol!). Reduce the cost of force lightning or increase the force regen when using force lightning if specced in madness tree. Bubble stuns won't be needed if the smash/force sweep issue is fixed (autocrit removed).

Edited December 26, 2012 by Givemedanger

I enjoyed your original post but i had some issues with it.

 

I don't know if you have played the ranged DPS classes in this game but, it seems like you haven't. Ranged are at a huge disadvantage in this game and the only DPS that is even considered decent is the sniper, and that is because of Cover

 

The gap closing/gap Opening mini game that goes on in any MMO, is extremely in favor of melee at the moment. It is just too easy for the majority of melee to close a gap, and kiting is almost non existent in this game. only a full Madness sorcerer can kite with any sort of real effectiveness, but there damage is **** against anyone who is wort a damn, and they can't burst at all.

 

because Kiting is already so poor in this game you can't include roots on resolve, **** they need to take knockbacks grabs and pull off resolve. Resolve should not prevent gap closing or opening. Those tools are essential for those class to create a gap, and unless they prevent warriors from leaping to a full resolve target, them my knockback should work against a full resolve warrior.

 

Granted KBs are too prevalent in this game, so putting them on resolve was necessary, but that has to change. The KB bouncing that goes on is absolutely frustrating. For instance i don't think Comm/Mercs should have a KB and instead should of different tools for creating a gap, maybe a jet jump to a target location that can funciton with the Z axis.

Assasins don't need a KB either. Honestly only Juggs/snipers and sorceres should have a KB.

 

KB C/Ds are also too short in this game 45sec would be perfect, 20-25sec is just too short. If the range with KBs need better gap opening to compensate than it should come it buffs to an existing ability or add a new ability.

 

Roots to need to be on some sort of system to prevent rooting someone forever, however that has to be completely independent of resolve which should only function for stuns and stuns that break on damage, otherwise you just have too many problems.

 

I don't believe resolve should decay it should actually grant you some time of immunity.

 

IMO resolve should be reworked to incorporate DR. Essentially the resolve bar would be go 0-1200 and broken into 3 section. 0-400, if your resolve is less then 400 a cc lasts for its full duration. 400-800, cc last for 50% its total duration, and finally 800-1200 CC last for only 25% of its standard duration. At full resolve you are immune for X amount. Hard stuns would generate 100 resolve per second, Stuns that break on damage would generate 50 resolve per sec. Abilities should have the resolve they generate placed on the tool tip.

 

Finally this game needs less hard stuns. Why is it that every class has a hard stun, mezzs should be the dominant form of CC not stuns. I don't mind being CC, i hate being CC'd and damage dealt to me to the point where i can die without ever being able to do anything.

 

I would prefer to see Sorc and some other classes loose their stuns in favor of much shorter C/Ds on their mezzs and a possibly shorter cast time on the mezzs. The mezz should not me instant either, players should have a way to counter or interrupt CC. I believe that having more mezzs be the dominate form of CC and stuns being more rare would overall create a better PVP environment where people aren't killed inside CC and CC isn't tossed around like battlefield like candy.

 

Class balance does need some work, and i agree with most of your feedback there with a few exceptions.

 

Concealment Operative: damage is fine and mobility is pretty good, but fine for a stealth spec. The problem with them energy managment, pretty much for all DPS operatives energy management is terrible and you find yourself using your basic attack far to often. Fiquire out energy management and they will be, since this is the major reason why their sustained is horrible in PvE/PvP.

 

DPS Sorcerers: Madness is relatively fine sustained damage wise, but it desperately needs some form of burst, the wrath proc just doesn't do it since Lightning Strike still hits for **** and Ch rushing Darkness initial hit isn't that great.

Lightning is just flat out brokenly bad. Partially because kiting is a ***** in this game, and secondly everything has a cast time, and they do terrible damage. Lightning strike sucks, chain lightning doesn't hit that hard and thundering Blast is quite frankly disappointing for a tree topping ability with a 2sec cast time. Fixing this spec requires it to be able to kite more effectively and damage increases, either through proc chance increases or actually increasing damage of thing like lightning strike, and it could also use a way to get an instant cast Thundering Blast that increases its damage. Perhaps Lightning Storms proc could work with TB. Lightning is quite possibly the worst spec in the game for PvP.

Both spec could also use an actual defensive C/D, they are too dependent on the Bubble. Bubble stun is flat out broken, should not be in the game in any form. The stun doesn't play kindly with resolve. If you make it generate normal resolve, then the sorc would have their opponent full resolve in no time with no way to escape since KB currently don't function against resolve targets. Remove the talent all together and replace it with something else.

 

Rage/Focus: just flat out broken and needs to be redesigned to work around a single target ability. Damage would still need to come down, but the core of the problem is that this is an AOE hitting harder than any other single target attack in the game, Master Strike and a Unload with all ticks beings crits withstanding.

 

Sentinals/Marauder: If the gap opening/closing model isn't adjusted so that ranged can more easily kite i would say that this class needs its defensive abilities nerfed or one of them cut. They are by far and away the hardest non tank speced class to kill. With all the stun issues this may not seem like an issue but if those actually get fixed this problem will be more noticeable than it is now and they will continue to be the go to for melee dps.

 

Merc/Commando: Flat out broken, worst healer, and worst DPS for PvP. Damage really isn't a problem with any DPS spec, they mainly suffere from a lack of kiting ability since they are heavily reliant on casting, even Pryo needs to be able to cast. Their Burst/Sustained is fine, they just can't escape long enough to get off necessary casts and subsequently die to easily, Adrenalin Rush could use a Buff for all trooper and BH advanced classes. Assualt/Pyro for merc/mando could possibly use some better resource management tools.

 

Other than that i think everything else is going relatively well for the type of PvP we have. I would love some space PvP and good world PvP that makes the two factions actually feel like there is a war going on.

 

A great post, its always nice to see well thought-out opinions on here. I especially agree with the stun/mez idea you came up with.

 

Many of these changes on the Knockback being on too short of a cooldown would make merc/sorcs worse, but its hard to say with all the changes you proposed. If Sorc/Mercs had more "non resolve" involved ways to escape melee combat over only having stuns/KB to get away I think this would be a positive change not only for ranged but for melee as well. Being put against a resolved-melee opponent as ranged essentially leaves you in a situation where you have no defensive options against your opponent, which is far from fun to say the least.

 

As a sorcerer main let me say roots need to have some form of diminishing return and I would argue that ranged have more problems with Roots than melee. Getting chain rooted is a death sentence for mercs/sorcs, because if you can't get away you are basically instantly die. When the only DPS sorcerer escape mechanic is force speed and it is countered by all roots and CC it is a problem. Currently roots are about the only thing that keep sorcs alive, but they are also a large part of the reason we die so easily.

Edited December 26, 2012 by AdmiralParmesan

Sadly I think the majority of players on SWTOR are still here because WoW is dumb, and there's nothing else out there.

 

QFT

 

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