Updated #2 OP

EDIT 12/13/13: With addition of sub 30% training dummy people are able to test the damage contributed by Quickdraw. A rotation that substitutes Trickshot and Followthrough for Quickdraw and Takedown yields the highest DPS.

 

Snipe Snipe - FT/TD - Ambush - FT/TD - SoS - FT/TD for Snipers

Charged Burst Charged Burst - TS/QD - Aimed Shot - TS/QD - SS - TS/QD for Gunslingers.

And updated the swtorboard guides as well

MM http://swtorboard.org/2013/10/09/marksmanship/

SS http://swtorboard.org/2013/10/09/sharpshooter/

Replace Followthrough with Takedown when you can during execute range

 

Quickdraw = Takedown

Aimed Shot = Ambush

Trickshot = Followthrough

Parse 1

 

29.35 DPS/activation of Quickdraw (small sample size, high crit ratio. 3/4 mainhand crits)

26.27 DPS/activation AS (closer to the projected mean in crits)

16.33 DPS/activation of Trickshot

Parse 2

 

22.23 DPS/activation of Takedown

22.97 DPS/activation of AS

16.43 DPS/activation of Trickshot

You can check this on the averages as well. Of the 3, Trickshot/Followthrough does the least average damage. When in execute range, it seems keeping substituting QD/TD in place of TS/FT if possible should give you a little bit more DPS.

My only comments is that even without the 4-pc, Quickdraw spam is still viable and not something to worry about as MM/SS. So we can still keep 2-pc pve / pvp for now. Until the nerf comes

I'll test it as well when I get home. I'm looking at doing something like this

Parse 1

100-30%

SS - TS - CB CB - TS - AS - TS

30-0% (insert QD - TS on cooldown)

QD - TS [sS - TS - CB CB - TS - AS - TS]

Parse 2

100-30%

SS - TS - CB CB - TS - AS - TS

30-0%

SS - QD/TS - CB CB - QD/TS - AS - QD/TS

A fun thing to note on this is that if you sub-in QD, the longer you're in the <30% execute phase the higher your DPS climbs.

Did you make any comparison parses like the one above? Having too much fun playing starfighter atm lol

This one as well by Lumine for good measure.

22.23 DPS/activation of Takedown.

22.97 DPS/activation of AS.

16.43 DPS/activation of Trickshot.

Kind of a bizarre parse to me. This one may not be as useful for this idea because of then number of rifle shots compared to my and Berry's parses, but the raw numbers you can see are still supportive of QD>TS.

 

Given these numbers, I'd say there is statistical support for swapping out TS for QD, if energy allows. The energy cost is equal with the 4pc but that won't make up for flyby being... flyby.

Definitely honored to be referenced, Falver. Just to clarify, I used Rifle Shots as a filler before my Ambush because the skill is still on CD (Like around 1.5 seconds or less) before I can cast it. I also use it after lining up my 1st Series of Shots, activating Sniper Volley/Orbital Strike, and using Followthrough (from 1st SoS). Then I auto-attack and use my 2nd Series of Shots. Honestly, I found it at least decent for me to sustain my energy levels and my APM but I'm always open for criticisms for using less of "Rifle Shots"

EDIT: Subbing to this thread in hopes there are more great ideas for Marksman post 2.5.

Hello all,

 

Just wanted to check which relics are Bis these days ? I use Boundles ages and SA but the new one with cunning proc seems very tempting.

Most of the Snipers/Gunslingers I know used Dread Forged Relics of Focused Retribution and Serendipidous Assault. Stick with your hunch and go with the Focused Retribution relic (or the "Cunning Proc" relic depending on your definition). It's an excellent BiS Relic with the SA Relic.

http://www.torparse.com/a/521493/9/0/Damage+Dealt

Thats what I got when I replaced TS with QD-TS sub 30%. Pretty happy with the RNG and a better way to handle execute phase.

Edit- Obviously I'm never going to get 87% QD every time (or ever again probably).

Definitely honored to be referenced, Falver. Just to clarify, I used Rifle Shots as a filler before my Ambush because the skill is still on CD (Like around 1.5 seconds or less) before I can cast it. I also use it after lining up my 1st Series of Shots, activating Sniper Volley/Orbital Strike, and using Followthrough (from 1st SoS). Then I auto-attack and use my 2nd Series of Shots. Honestly, I found it at least decent for me to sustain my energy levels and my APM but I'm always open for criticisms for using less of "Rifle Shots"

 

EDIT: Subbing to this thread in hopes there are more great ideas for Marksman post 2.5.

Yeah, it wasn't a hit against your style/rotation, just that the difference in the distribution might have had different results in the theoretical DPS.

http://www.torparse.com/a/521493/9/0/Damage+Dealt

 

Thats what I got when I replaced TS with QD-TS sub 30%. Pretty happy with the RNG and a better way to handle execute phase.

 

Edit- Obviously I'm never going to get 87% QD every time (or ever again probably).

Glad you found the result likable.

For the heck of it, let's see the effect QD had on your parse.

31.21 DPS/activation of Quickdraw (4).

18.36 DPS/activation of Trickshot (55).

Swapping in QD yielded a (projected) total DPS increase of 51.4. One thing to note is that the mainhand crits on your trickshot AND quickdraw were both statistically significant. luckycrits.jpg

Guildie posted this but not quite sure what to make of it:

1) http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/487440/modules/forum/attachments/gunslinger_burn_rotation_1386980935.png

2)

Btw from the non-****** part of the DPS scalars thread I know that the coefficients on all Sharpshooter damage are 0.72, save Aimed Shot which is 0.768.

So here's the expected value calculations, assuming my 0.2364 ranged crit rate and 0.7296 surge:

Charged burst = (3862+4630)*(1+(0.2364+0.04)*0.7296)*0.72/2 = 3673.62

Trickshot = (3982+4774)*(1+(0.2364+0.04)*(0.7296+0.3))*0.72/2 = 4049.20

Quickdraw = (5335+6397)*(1+(0.2364+0.15)*(0.7296+0.3))*0.72/2 = 5903.79

Speed shot = (8208+9844)*(1+(0.2364+0.04+0.15)*(0.7296+0.3))*0.72/2 = 9531.79

Aimed shot = (6519+7816)*(1+0.2364*0.7296)*0.768/2 = 6454.06

So that would give you ballpark mean damage numbers for your own rotation, though you do use the 4pc pve set bonus and I don't. That'll increase all your damage by a significant amount. You probably also have more crit than me, which will make your Speed shots, Trickshots, and Quickdraws do more damage.

3)

The long strings of numbers are there to help you estimate the damage done per cast of the abilities. Instead of using torparse's average damage/cast of ability from your parse, you can see what the values will converge to given enough time. With those mean values you can also estimate dummy DPS. For the cycle <Speed shot, Trickshot, Aimed Shot (2.5 sec), Trickshot, Takedown, Trickshot, Autoattack> over 12.04 seconds you'd expect

<9531 + 4049 + 6454 + 4049 + 5903 + 4049 + ~1500 autoattack damage> = 35535 damage / 12.04 seconds = 2951 DPS. Once you mix in Flyby, Burst Volley, Vital Shot, Sab charge, Illegal Mods, Cool head, relics + adrenals, that'll push you up to the 3500+ DPS range.

You know a lot more about slinger rotations than me but my general conclusion from looking at the rotation would be to not use <Charged burst, Charged burst, Trickshot> at all once you get to 30%; it looks like there's no room in the rotation for it and it looks too expensive. Instead I'd go with <Speed shot, Trickshot, Aimed Shot (2.5 sec), Trickshot, Quickdraw, Trickshot, Autoattack> or some variant that keeps Speed Shot, Aimed Shot, and Quickdraw on perfect cooldown.

I tried this out last night with my guild in a DP HM run & I was doing the same or more DPS on my under-geared GS than on my Commando, despite not being anywhere near as familiar with the rotation. This makes me sad because I really do like my Commando, but me as a gunslinger will probably be better for our progression raiding, especially if our other commando can up his game a bit...

Gunslinger is a pure DPS, so when taking out all other factors you should always perform a gunnery commando (assault is still overpowered). Gunslingers have a lot of utility commandos don't, and the only thing you lose by playing your GS is not being able to off-heal when things go bad.

As far as this thread is concerned, I'm not going to beat around the bush; I have no intention of updating or maintaining this guide now or in the foreseeable future. Paowee is the go-to SS/MM person now.

Gunslinger is a pure DPS, so when taking out all other factors you should always perform a gunnery commando (assault is still overpowered). Gunslingers have a lot of utility commandos don't, and the only thing you lose by playing your GS is not being able to off-heal when things go bad.

Yes, it certainly felt like I was taking a lot more damage on my GS than I do on my Commando on the second boss, as I would normally self-heal, so less strain on the healers when I'm on my normal character...

As far as this thread is concerned, I'm not going to beat around the bush; I have no intention of updating or maintaining this guide now or in the foreseeable future. Paowee is the go-to SS/MM person now.

That's fair enough, I assume the gearing priorities are standard, accuracy to ~100%, surge to ~70% (?), no crit, everything else to power?

You know a lot more about slinger rotations than me but my general conclusion from looking at the rotation would be to not use <Charged burst, Charged burst, Trickshot> at all once you get to 30%; it looks like there's no room in the rotation for it and it looks too expensive. Instead I'd go with <Speed shot, Trickshot, Aimed Shot (2.5 sec), Trickshot, Quickdraw, Trickshot, Autoattack> or some variant that keeps Speed Shot, Aimed Shot, and Quickdraw on perfect cooldown.

Would it not be SS - TS - AS (2.0 sec) - TS - QD - TS - AA ?

Been playing my sniper a bit more, and leveling a GS casually. Trying to be as informed on these classes, as I am my VG, not nitpicking.

I tried this out last night with my guild in a DP HM run & I was doing the same or more DPS on my under-geared GS than on my Commando, despite not being anywhere near as familiar with the rotation. This makes me sad because I really do like my Commando, but me as a gunslinger will probably be better for our progression raiding, especially if our other commando can up his game a bit...

Assault or Pyrotech is good DPS right now. Top even!

You know a lot more about slinger rotations than me but my general conclusion from looking at the rotation would be to not use <Charged burst, Charged burst, Trickshot> at all once you get to 30%; it looks like there's no room in the rotation for it and it looks too expensive. Instead I'd go with <Speed shot, Trickshot, Aimed Shot (2.5 sec), Trickshot, Quickdraw, Trickshot, Autoattack> or some variant that keeps Speed Shot, Aimed Shot, and Quickdraw on perfect cooldown.

Theoretically, I'd agree that skipping CBx2 and going straight to Aimed shot would be a perfectly reasonable rotation.

Swapping out TS:

SS -> VS ->TS/QD -> CBx2 -> TS -> AS -> TS

Using TS as many times as possible:

SS -> VS -> TS -> QD -> TS -> AS -> TS

The logic for it makes sense, but here's the problem: in a full length fight, Charged Burst actually makes up a higher percentage of your DPS than Aimed Shot does, and that even includes pre-casting it after a flyby.

Snipe - 13.53%, Ambush - 10.03%

Charged Burst - 15.19, Aimed shot - 12.09

Charged Burst - 14.89, Aimed Shot - 13.34

Charged Burst - 14.06, Aimed Shot - 12.16

The fact of the matter is, Aimed Shot is, at least in my opinion, the most useless part of the sharpshooter's rotation. It hits rather hard if it hits but is rather luckluster if it doesn't. Aside from its 20% armor penetration talent, it doesn't really have anything that makes it all that great. Strictly speaking, spamming charged burst into infinity yields more DPS than does using Aimed Shot.

Even looking at my parse, the one with the closest variance between CB and AS, 1.45% in a full-length parse, breaking it down by DPS/activation shows a large disparity.

31.89 DPS/2 activations of Charged Burst

28.56 DPS/Activation of Aimed Shot

15.70 DPS/Activations of Trickshot

24.73 DPS/activation of Quickdraw

Now let's look at the proposed rotation:

SS -> VS -> TS -> QD -> TS -> AS -> TS

Basically, what you get out of this, as opposed to the one swapping out Trickshot for Quickdraw, is dropping 2 Charged Burst in favor of Quickdraw (and spending the additional GCD hard-casting AS).

As you can see from the DPS/activation numbers, dropping your 2 Charged Burst for one Quickdraw will actually drop your DPS. I can see the benefit in energy management, but if you're going to do something that hurts your DPS, you might as well not include QD at all.

I'm running at the moment the pure power build and when I look at top parses every is getting at least 35-38% crit. I'm at 31-32%, are you guys running now with a significant amount of crit?

Which parse are you looking at? Most of the parses with huge numbers just have an unnatural (and lucky) amounts of crit.

I'm running at the moment the pure power build and when I look at top parses every is getting at least 35-38% crit. I'm at 31-32%, are you guys running now with a significant amount of crit?

On my 3807 parse I believe I had 62 crit (or whatever 1 78 enhancement has on it). I did have very good crit on abilities that don't get buffed by the tree (flyby, Trickshot, charged burst). Speedshot and Quickdraw get +15% to crit from tree, but overall it was imo a "lucky crit" parse. I would say my average sharpshooter parse is probably around 3700 +- 50 dps depending on crit.

On my 3807 parse I believe I had 62 crit (or whatever 1 78 enhancement has on it). I did have very good crit on abilities that don't get buffed by the tree (flyby, Trickshot, charged burst). Speedshot and Quickdraw get +15% to crit from tree, but overall it was imo a "lucky crit" parse. I would say my average sharpshooter parse is probably around 3700 +- 50 dps depending on crit.

Could you please share your skill tree and how your rotatin/priority is?

Well fellow Snipers/Slingers I need some help with my rotation. It's only my twink but I'm stagnating. I'm pretty sure I am doing something wrong.

Here is my latest parse.

I think I should do at least 200dps more. I've almost full BIS pure power build with 2 pc pvp bonus an 5x94 acc. I'm only missing the kell dragon power proc relic and one implant(got the underworld version and one ultimate comm implant)

Advice pls^^

Well fellow Snipers/Slingers I need some help with my rotation. It's only my twink but I'm stagnating. I'm pretty sure I am doing something wrong.

 

Here is my latest parse.

 

I think I should do at least 200dps more. I've almost full BIS pure power build with 2 pc pvp bonus an 5x94 acc. I'm only missing the kell dragon power proc relic and one implant(got the underworld version and one ultimate comm implant)

 

Advice pls^^

My parses are looking about the same. All I'm missing is two implants and two enhancements, but can't seem to consistently break 3500 =/

I've been playing around with only 1 point in the Vital Shot talent and another in self heal while in cover talent for the proc relics. Seems to work slightly better but still not what I'd like to see.

Also, using the two piece PVP set bonus, I seem to hit some serious Energy concerns in Execute range when I try to use Quickdraw. =/

My parses are looking about the same. All I'm missing is two implants and two enhancements, but can't seem to consistently break 3500 =/

 

I've been playing around with only 1 point in the Vital Shot talent and another in self heal while in cover talent for the proc relics. Seems to work slightly better but still not what I'd like to see.

 

Also, using the two piece PVP set bonus, I seem to hit some serious Energy concerns in Execute range when I try to use Quickdraw. =/

I've supplied the math for using Quickdraw in the execute phase. And, while ideally swap it out for every trickshot, do it only as energy allows (or, if you're using the 4pc, just do it). For dummy parsing, the sharpshooter is currently a bit behind the hybrid. You'd honestly be hard pressed to beat the hybrid if you're equally skilled in both.

I've supplied the math for using Quickdraw in the execute phase. And, while ideally swap it out for every trickshot, do it only as energy allows (or, if you're using the 4pc, just do it). For dummy parsing, the sharpshooter is currently a bit behind the hybrid. You'd honestly be hard pressed to beat the hybrid if you're equally skilled in both.

The coming Flyby changes is going to take a small chunk of hybrid dps >_<. Oh and MM too. I wonder if we get any other buffs or is this just a flat nerfing to the class' overall damage.

The coming Flyby changes is going to take a small chunk of hybrid dps >_<. Oh and MM too. I wonder if we get any other buffs or is this just a flat nerfing to the class' overall damage.

Well we get the small buff in the lethality tree and and you get that extra cunning from the two 78er armorrings. That's it I guess.

p.s. do you mind taking a look at my parse i posted a few post over this and tell my why i suck? ;-)

The coming Flyby changes is going to take a small chunk of hybrid dps >_<. Oh and MM too. I wonder if we get any other buffs or is this just a flat nerfing to the class' overall damage.

Part of the reason I did the analysis on Quickdraw was in preparation for it. I'm not gonna lie, having no flyby will hurt. But, on the plus side, the 4pc pve will at least have some use.