Thanks for reading:)

Except that having heavy armor in pvp means exactly nothing unless you are a tank. Even then it has more to do with your skills and how they buff the armor than the armor itself.

 

 

 

This section brings us right back to what this thread is still about: Why bring a merc/mando as a healer or dps if one of the other classes does it better?

First Heavy armor does bring some protection about 1 or 2 more hits to take you down in 1vs fight, enough time to turn on your defense abilities.

The Second the flaw of Mercenary Command is in design and people understanding the specific of this design. We have community of Big Numbers will tell you the truth, someone can say the bigger the numbers the better class. I say NO. If i healer has big numbers at the end of WZ that means few things

1) your group consist mainly with medium light armor character the soak more damage thous need more healing

2) enemy group had a high number of DPS

3) me s no healer i always remember to award the healer who saved my life more then those that just refilled m health

4) THe healer was weal guarded or enemy group doesn't know how to interrupt an healer or the healing player is just good with positioning and has luck to be invisible

So not the number are so important as the usefulness so...

When Mercenary/ Commandos are useful in PvP As a Heavy Support always HEAL/DPS IT IS best to team up with heavy armored tanks/dps. The Tank/DPS classes doesn't require so much healing and need sometimes that extra DPS burst that our classes can provide all of that help in exchange for them to guard/protect us.

As healers we are not able to Heal those medium/light armor classes. Just look on our Supercharged Gas ability instead like other healing classes it gives bonuses to healing abilities in our cases it gives us reduced cool down reduced cost of damage and healing abilities.

So as sorcerer and operative can only heal good when spec with dps they will not help you, we can heal throw electro net to catch those slippery Sages/Scoundrels or use our Death from above in very common situation when tank is surrounded by 3 melee or more. WE are designed to give proof to these words "that sometimes (offense)DPSing the best Healing (defense)" and as ranged class we an do that with anyone in our line of sight. people need to L2P with this class and understand it your team mates also

Thanks for reading:)

 

 

 

First Heavy armor does bring some protection about 1 or 2 more hits to take you down in 1vs fight, enough time to turn on your defense abilities.

 

The Second the flaw of Mercenary Command is in design and people understanding the specific of this design. We have community of Big Numbers will tell you the truth, someone can say the bigger the numbers the better class. I say NO. If i healer has big numbers at the end of WZ that means few things

1) your group consist mainly with medium light armor character the soak more damage thous need more healing

2) enemy group had a high number of DPS

3) me s no healer i always remember to award the healer who saved my life more then those that just refilled m health

4) THe healer was weal guarded or enemy group doesn't know how to interrupt an healer or the healing player is just good with positioning and has luck to be invisible

So not the number are so important as the usefulness so...

When Mercenary/ Commandos are useful in PvP As a Heavy Support always HEAL/DPS IT IS best to team up with heavy armored tanks/dps. The Tank/DPS classes doesn't require so much healing and need sometimes that extra DPS burst that our classes can provide all of that help in exchange for them to guard/protect us.

 

As healers we are not able to Heal those medium/light armor classes. Just look on our Supercharged Gas ability instead like other healing classes it gives bonuses to healing abilities in our cases it gives us reduced cool down reduced cost of damage and healing abilities.

 

So as sorcerer and operative can only heal good when spec with dps they will not help you, we can heal throw electro net to catch those slippery Sages/Scoundrels or use our Death from above in very common situation when tank is surrounded by 3 melee or more. WE are designed to give proof to these words "that sometimes (offense)DPSing the best Healing (defense)" and as ranged class we an do that with anyone in our line of sight. people need to L2P with this class and understand it your team mates also

Are you sure that you don't need to learn to play? You just stated that you're level 51, and that you're not 55. That you've never done ranked? Perhaps the misconception lies with you.

Fact is, if an operative is unkillable and can do 1500 healing per second while being focused, and 2000 hps when not, while a merc can only do 800-1000 while being focused and 1500 if not, then people will take two operatives. Keeping people up or keeping oneself up means that your other dps will do more damage.

They aren't reliant on cast heals like we are, their defensives allow them to dodge execute abilities, and they can completely relocate if being focused. You're sadly mistaken about the balance of the game when it comes to healing.

As for heavy armor, think about this. Elemental attacks completely bypass armor, carnage marauders completely bypass armor. To make up for light armor, sorcerers have 10% dodge. Or how snipers have an additional 20% defences under cover. Or operatives can roll now. As for the slow argument to the roll, how many tech slows does a merc have? And how many of them are ranged? And how many of them are uncleansable by an operative? What about the fact that operative healers can't be leapt to while healing? Cover is off the gcd. (obliterate still works) That removes one of the interrupts and gap closers that a merc has to deal with every single darn time.

When it comes to survivability the top survivability classes aren't necessarily the ones with heavy armor.

Fact is, if an operative is unkillable and can do 1500 healing per second while being focused, and 2000 hps when not, while a merc can only do 800-1000 while being focused and 1500 if not, then people will take two operatives. Keeping people up or keeping oneself up means that your other dps will do more damage..

I think a huge part of the problem here is that a lot of people try to put Commando/Mercenary healers into a role they aren't designed for. Sages are the game's best group healer, have many tools, and are also healing glass cannons. Scoundrels are the kings of PVP healing because they have the luxury of being instant-cast (and don't go saying "oh those instants won't save anyone" -- the fact that they are instant makes them incredibly valuable) plus having burst healing potential on short cooldown. That's not even considering all their utility. For a lot of this community, it seems then that Commando/Mercenary has no place. It can neither group heal effectively or burst heal as regularly. Not every team is going to see the value of a sustainable healer, and one that can take a tremendous beating. The way I like to think of Commando/Mercenary healers is that they are anchors: they put their foot in the door and don't take it out until their team throws the door wide open.

If you are looking just at face value and want big fat numbers, you will see Sage and Scoundrel have success way before a Commando/Mercenary. But I have to say you got to be exaggerating if you are only doing 800-1000 HPS under pressure and 1500 HPS when unmolested. Quite frankly, you are doing something wrong if that's the case. Commando/Mercenary can do the same numbers as Sage/Scoundrel, but you will arguably need to put more effort in. It is possible. I've seen it. I've done it. As a matter of fact, I usually sit between 1400 DPS and 2000 HPS against high damage teams. In ranked, my team either ran one Commando and one Scoundrel or one of each healer. In just about every single one of those matches, the healers were always within +/- 100k of each other. And yeah, that includes post-2.0. Are those numbers harder to achieve? Yes. If anything, that's where the imbalance lies. There could be a few tweaks here and there (I'd still love for my damn Tech Override to be on a minute cooldown) but the class is nowhere near as broken as people make it out to be. Maybe its "broken" in your team's lineup, but players tend to take the path of least resistance. The teams who do give it the chance will recognize they have a very reliable and underrated healer on their team. And when played right, the class absolutely can and will put up very similar numbers as any of the other healers. More than likely, they'll do it with almost no deaths.

Commando/Mercenary can do the same numbers as Sage/Scoundrel, but you will arguably need to put more effort in. It is possible. I've seen it. I've done it. As a matter of fact, I usually sit between 1400 DPS and 2000 HPS against high damage teams. In ranked, my team either ran one Commando and one Scoundrel or one of each healer. In just about every single one of those matches, the healers were always within +/- 100k of each other. And yeah, that includes post-2.0. Are those numbers harder to achieve? Yes. If anything, that's where the imbalance lies.

bear in mind that Aux is arguably the best mando healer on our server and has been since the last merger (when I arrived). There are only a handful of mercs/mandos who can do what he's talking about (hang with highly skilled sages/scoundrels), and his team/guild is the most tactically advanced/sound on the server (strat/discipline). I'm not sure he didn't say as much in his post. I just thought I'd reiterate that he's doing more with less and under optimal conditions (team-wise).

from a dps standpoint, the mando healer is like a watchman sent trying to keep up with a smasher on the dps charts. better survivability, but the raw numbers are WAY easier on the smasher.

personally, I think mando healing is fine in 2.0. I would rather see scoundrels nerfed (which will get me flamed), but think about it: healing is already too high in 2.0. do you really want to buff another heal class or make them smash-like simple to churn out numbers? that is the fundamental difference between mandos and the other heals: ease of use. knock down the cast heal potency of the scoundrel. this will reestablish the mando as king of single target healing. the scoundrel can still move and heal and maintain his numerous escapes. he just wouldn't have the focused, single target "burst" that he does now if he just stands there and casts (with that crazy 30% < proc).

regarding some of the electro net chatter, please leave the cd alone. that abil is VERY potent. and if there's a mando dps and healer in ops, the practical cd is a hell of a lot shorter than 90s.

I'm for tech override cd reduction, but I would prefer reserve power cell instead....just because I run into major ammo issues if I do any dps but hammer shot or charged bolt (during supercharger). not sure how much this matters in a rated match, but since rated is so damn rare....

I play commando from the start the game.

I was waiting for revamp this class.... Play commando on PvP is terrible. Death - respawn - death...

I paid BW almost two years. Now I canceled my subscription and I leave - my patience is over.

. As a matter of fact, I usually sit between 1400 DPS and 2000 HPS against high damage teams.

Teach me

To be honest I want to heal without 300 latency with my beast computer in the us.

I was averaging 800 hps in a rated match under focus in 1.7 while I was still in the US with a crappy laptop so it would be nice to see the change now that I can play without any graphical errors.

I play commando from the start the game.

I was waiting for revamp this class.... Play commando on PvP is terrible. Death - respawn - death...

I paid BW almost two years. Now I canceled my subscription and I leave - my patience is over.

if you want this type of changes

Then they are not coming back, and i don't want personally to play such type commando as it is clearly OP and breaks all the balance

if you want this type of changes

 

Then they are not coming back, and i don't want personally to play such type commando as it is clearly OP and breaks all the balance

To be fair, those players trying to kill the commando apparently did not know how to use an interrupt.

Can't really call a class OP by using an example of skilled players going up against unskilled ones.

bear in mind that Aux is arguably the best mando healer on our server and has been since the last merger (when I arrived). There are only a handful of mercs/mandos who can do what he's talking about (hang with highly skilled sages/scoundrels), and his team/guild is the most tactically advanced/sound on the server (strat/discipline). I'm not sure he didn't say as much in his post. I just thought I'd reiterate that he's doing more with less and under optimal conditions (team-wise).

 

from a dps standpoint, the mando healer is like a watchman sent trying to keep up with a smasher on the dps charts. better survivability, but the raw numbers are WAY easier on the smasher.

 

personally, I think mando healing is fine in 2.0. I would rather see scoundrels nerfed (which will get me flamed), but think about it: healing is already too high in 2.0. do you really want to buff another heal class or make them smash-like simple to churn out numbers? that is the fundamental difference between mandos and the other heals: ease of use. knock down the cast heal potency of the scoundrel. this will reestablish the mando as king of single target healing. the scoundrel can still move and heal and maintain his numerous escapes. he just wouldn't have the focused, single target "burst" that he does now if he just stands there and casts (with that crazy 30% < proc).

 

regarding some of the electro net chatter, please leave the cd alone. that abil is VERY potent. and if there's a mando dps and healer in ops, the practical cd is a hell of a lot shorter than 90s.

 

I'm for tech override cd reduction, but I would prefer reserve power cell instead....just because I run into major ammo issues if I do any dps but hammer shot or charged bolt (during supercharger). not sure how much this matters in a rated match, but since rated is so damn rare....

As I see it, electronet is to merc as entrench is to sniper, and hydraulic overrides (hold the line) is to merc as the roll is to sniper. One is arguably the defining ability of the class, the other is the escape. And yet on both accounts the cooldowns are lower for snipers, which is why I'd like to see the following changes:

1. Reduce the CD of electronet to 60s (45s if talented in gunnery/aresenal) so it has the same CD as snipers entrench.

2. Reduce the CD of hydraullc overrides (hold the line) to 20s so it has the same CD as the snipers roll.

We are, after all, talking about the class that is the least powerful at both healing and ranged DPS. Snipers are still by far the best ranged DPS class in this game, just as operatives are by far the best healers in this game. Making the above two changes would close the gap at least somewhat.

I would also add

1. For bodyguard spec Supercharged gas needs 20 charges (not 30)

2. NPC Pyro have Tactical Accelerator we should also have some kin of stacking buff that increase the fire damage spamable on every single target or the same as Arsenal increase damage for Rail Shoot

3. Give the electro dart some damage or better 30%/50% Movement penalty for 4 sec other classes have at least some damages on their stuns we have none, and i favor more escape mobility bonus then dmg

As I see it, electronet is to merc as entrench is to sniper, and hydraulic overrides (hold the line) is to merc as the roll is to sniper. One is arguably the defining ability of the class, the other is the escape. And yet on both accounts the cooldowns are lower for snipers, which is why I'd like to see the following changes:

 

1. Reduce the CD of electronet to 60s (45s if talented in gunnery/aresenal) so it has the same CD as snipers entrench.

 

2. Reduce the CD of hydraullc overrides (hold the line) to 20s so it has the same CD as the snipers roll.

 

We are, after all, talking about the class that is the least powerful at both healing and ranged DPS. Snipers are still by far the best ranged DPS class in this game, just as operatives are by far the best healers in this game. Making the above two changes would close the gap at least somewhat.

lol well -- and bear in mind that I'm a mando -- I think you need to invert your relationships. entrench and hold the line have more in common. hold the line actually has a shorter cd, but it's uptime is considerably shorter as well (the medic cd is particularly short). the two abilities are primarily immunity related.

electro net is an incredibly powerful ability. as a healer, I can literally solo anybody who isn't also a healer. if they chase, they die. if they stand still, I mortor volley. they die. they'd die a lot quicker if I were spamming grav + hib + demo. that cd is fine. if anything, it's the cd on entrench that needs to be adjusted...or maybe just the uptime on it 15s instead of 20s.

I know many ppl say buff "underperforming" classes rather than nerf those that perform well, but I also feel there's nothing to buff for commandos, in order to put them on par with snipers, that won't also make them OP themselves. make snipers as susceptible to CC as mandos/sages, and I say problem solved. from what I understand, this is more of an issue for MM tree.

How is this thread still going? Why is it still being bumped?

Commando is no gunslinger, but they're a close second. I continuously see commandos top the leaderboards in both ranked and normal que, and electro net may just be the best new ability to come out in Makeb besides the roll.

I think the real issue is that I see far too many Commandos that have no idea what they're doing on one of the easiest classes in the game.

the only class that would really benefit from that would be the smash juggs. just about every class has similar or better speed enhancements. if it breaks cc the way htl does, that would be fun to see.

What i'm suggesting is that using htl would grant immunity to all movement-impairing effects, knockdowns and physics (what it does for just the merc/mando right now) for all your allies in the AOE as well as the 30% speed boost, which would stack with other classes' speed boosts, for 8 secs (again, the duration it currently has for just the merc/mando).

How is this thread still going? Why is it still being bumped?

Because it's a good discussion thread.

Commando is no gunslinger, but they're a close second. I continuously see commandos top the leaderboards in both ranked and normal que, and electro net may just be the best new ability to come out in Makeb besides the roll.

 

I think the real issue is that I see far too many Commandos that have no idea what they're doing on one of the easiest classes in the game.

Being able to play a commando/merc successfully is not as easy as a lot of people, mainly those that have never played one, make it seem.

I've known quite a few people that have decided to try rolling a commando for pvp just to see what it was like. They figured that the class was simple with a GR, GR, GR, DR rotation and that since they played their sents and slingers well that a commando would be easy.

They quickly discovered that a commando required far more attention and situational awareness in order to survive than their previous class. Their susceptibility to interrupts, lack of escape mechanics, back loaded burst, dependance on cast times, were all drawbacks that they were not prepared to deal with and they quickly moved back to their old toons.

As has been stated many items in this thread, a person that is good on a commando will be great on almost any other class.

The reverse is not true however.

lol well -- and bear in mind that I'm a mando -- I think you need to invert your relationships. entrench and hold the line have more in common. hold the line actually has a shorter cd, but it's uptime is considerably shorter as well (the medic cd is particularly short). the two abilities are primarily immunity related.

 

electro net is an incredibly powerful ability. as a healer, I can literally solo anybody who isn't also a healer. if they chase, they die. if they stand still, I mortor volley. they die. they'd die a lot quicker if I were spamming grav + hib + demo. that cd is fine. if anything, it's the cd on entrench that needs to be adjusted...or maybe just the uptime on it 15s instead of 20s.

 

I know many ppl say buff "underperforming" classes rather than nerf those that perform well, but I also feel there's nothing to buff for commandos, in order to put them on par with snipers, that won't also make them OP themselves. make snipers as susceptible to CC as mandos/sages, and I say problem solved. from what I understand, this is more of an issue for MM tree.

.....Oh brother. Please don't derail this into "snipers are OP and need to be nerfed", because that's not the case. Snipers are fine, and play exactly how a ranged DPS class should be played.

Really, this "nerf snipers so they are as bad as us" nonsense needs to stop. Doing that would only benefit melee classes, particularly smash monkeys. It most certainly would not benefit mercs in any way. Mercs are, as you even said yourself, an underperforming and underpowered class, which is why they need to be buffed.

How is this thread still going? Why is it still being bumped?

 

Commando is no gunslinger, but they're a close second. I continuously see commandos top the leaderboards in both ranked and normal que, and electro net may just be the best new ability to come out in Makeb besides the roll.

 

I think the real issue is that I see far too many Commandos that have no idea what they're doing on one of the easiest classes in the game.

Lmfao. Yes, easiest so long as everyone decides to ignore you and let you free cast.

Commando's easier than gunslingers? 0/10 dude.

Commando is no gunslinger, but they're a close second. I continuously see commandos top the leaderboards in both ranked and normal que, and electro net may just be the best new ability to come out in Makeb besides the roll.

What?! Every ranked team will take a sorc dps over a merc dps of the same skill level. That makes mercs third amongst the ranged dps classes. Out of three. Doh.

And regarding ElectroNet, it isn't even the best Merc skill, HSM is. EN isn't even the best defensive Merc skill. HO is. EN is a great skill to use on bad enemy players. EN is a minor annoyance to good enemy players. It doesn't kill good players. It doesn't restrict good players. It just does 5k damage to them over 9 seconds.

What?! Every ranked team will take a sorc dps over a merc dps of the same skill level. That makes mercs third amongst the ranged dps classes. Out of three. Doh.

 

And regarding ElectroNet, it isn't even the best Merc skill, HSM is. EN isn't even the best defensive Merc skill. HO is. EN is a great skill to use on bad enemy players. EN is a minor annoyance to good enemy players. It doesn't kill good players. It doesn't restrict good players. It just does 5k damage to them over 9 seconds.

You are drastically underestimating the value of electronet, especially when u already have good focus fired in ranked. Being unable to vanish, leap, or move is a pretty big deal.

Sorcs do have better healing capability, so I would still probably take them over a merc if I was pressed to choose, but its really close.

You are drastically underestimating the value of electronet, especially when u already have good focus fired in ranked. Being unable to vanish, leap, or move is a pretty big deal.

If Merc ElectroNets an enemy Operative/Scoundrel healer and the enemy healer continues to move, maximizing damage from the EN while the Merc continues to dps the healer, the healer will not die. Well, OK if the healer was already at 10% health AND the Merc gets a crit on his HSM, there's a chance the healer will die. But in practice, EN does not enable a 1v1 kill vs. most common type of healer, even if the healer continues to move.

And yes, increasing the number of dps attacking the ElectroNet'ed healer does increase your chances of getting a kill - if the enemy did nothing in response. But in a ranked match vs. high skill opponents, that is not going to happen. 2 attackers? But a guard on the healer. 3 attackers? Put a guard on the healer and stop moving. 4 attackers? Cross heal from one of your other two healers.

In general telegraphing your team's intent to focus fire on a specific enemy is a really bad idea in ranked pvp. It just subjects your entire team's dps output to mitigation via Intercede, Warzone Adrenals, shields, etc. The defense is so dominate in high skill ranked pvp, that you must rapidly switch focus fire to targets that are NOT guarded, and do not have defensive CDs available if you hope to get a kill. Committing to dps a specific healer for 9 seconds because you put EN on him is simply not a good idea. That's not to say that EN is useless. Putting EN on a Sorc or Operative healer who is already near death can give you that kill. IF he doesn't have his cc breaker. But let's be honest, that kill came from the enemy team being asleep at the wheel and letting your team get him down to 20% health.

If Merc ElectroNets an enemy Operative/Scoundrel healer and the enemy healer continues to move, maximizing damage from the EN while the Merc continues to dps the healer, the healer will not die. Well, OK if the healer was already at 10% health AND the Merc gets a crit on his HSM, there's a chance the healer will die. But in practice, EN does not enable a 1v1 kill vs. most common type of healer, even if the healer continues to move.

 

And yes, increasing the number of dps attacking the ElectroNet'ed healer does increase your chances of getting a kill - if the enemy did nothing in response. But in a ranked match vs. high skill opponents, that is not going to happen. 2 attackers? But a guard on the healer. 3 attackers? Put a guard on the healer and stop moving. 4 attackers? Cross heal from one of your other two healers.

 

In general telegraphing your team's intent to focus fire on a specific enemy is a really bad idea in ranked pvp. It just subjects your entire team's dps output to mitigation via Intercede, Warzone Adrenals, shields, etc. The defense is so dominate in high skill ranked pvp, that you must rapidly switch focus fire to targets that are NOT guarded, and do not have defensive CDs available if you hope to get a kill. Committing to dps a specific healer for 9 seconds because you put EN on him is simply not a good idea. That's not to say that EN is useless. Putting EN on a Sorc or Operative healer who is already near death can give you that kill. IF he doesn't have his cc breaker. But let's be honest, that kill came from the enemy team being asleep at the wheel and letting your team get him down to 20% health.

While you have a point about telegraphing your intent with E-net i can assure you that while in ranked i never start with the net, we call out a target start dpsing that target and the net hits a few seconds in to that group attack, leaving the target little to no time to react. It usually ends up with a kill, not always ofc but negating the target all defensive options when he has so much damage incoming generally is a bad day for that target.

.....Oh brother. Please don't derail this into "snipers are OP and need to be nerfed", because that's not the case. Snipers are fine, and play exactly how a ranged DPS class should be played.

 

Really, this "nerf snipers so they are as bad as us" nonsense needs to stop. Doing that would only benefit melee classes, particularly smash monkeys. It most certainly would not benefit mercs in any way. Mercs are, as you even said yourself, an underperforming and underpowered class, which is why they need to be buffed.

have I said that in 2.0? if I did, I take it back. they're fine. assault is trash now, but gunnery is what a ranged should be. some immunity. still moveable. still interruptable. good tools to escape/maintain range.

edit: if you don't understand, no ranged should be able to stand by itself. they have range. if you make everyone like snipers, every melee would be dead before they ever reached an objective or their target. I do agree that mandos/sages were too weak prior to 2.0, but they have plenty of burst now, and the class I know more about (mandos) have gained the much needed tools to maintain range. what I see now are ppl asking to be "the best" and to get tools that will give them an answer for everything.