Very much this^^

With added- I don't care how long it takes for you guys to make new content, i just want to be able to play the game i pay for, without unnecessary downtime caused by untested, badly written code.

 

Also you need to get some players back - I think one of Biowares crazier decisions was to remove F2P and Pref players ability to join ops. Bring back Ops passes please. Us subs need people to play the game with.

 

You will still make money from the F2P mob due to GM's using the CM to buy them for guildees...or the F2P'rs buying them for themselves.

Agreed. I do not need more and more new content, if it comes with more and more bugs or even the team being to busy to fix old bugs. Please keep and make the game running smoothly, take care of the things that are already in game before you try to create new content.

The internet comparison is pretty poor. This is a mmorpg the requirement for customer service is a lot higher and also is and should be a lot more interactive. And things happen? This is the norm with BioWare, I really doubt your validity for that statement considering that makes it sounds like this is a rare thing that can happen to anyone. Not it isn't, and there are less resourceful companies such as Aeriagames who's always way better with patching and fixing things when down much faster. They also have a smaller team. Of course, it doesn't help anyone by throwing tantrums, but that's neither here nor there as it does not excuse the level of competence in the Bioware division in the past years really.

Are you truly stating that an MMO requires a higher level of customer service than an Internet Provider? I can't say that would be my priority.

The internet comparison is pretty poor. This is a mmorpg the requirement for customer service is a lot higher and also is and should be a lot more interactive. And things happen? This is the norm with BioWare, I really doubt your validity for that statement considering that makes it sounds like this is a rare thing that can happen to anyone. Not it isn't, and there are less resourceful companies such as Aeriagames who's always way better with patching and fixing things when down much faster. They also have a smaller team. Of course, it doesn't help anyone by throwing tantrums, but that's neither here nor there as it does not excuse the level of competence in the Bioware division in the past years really.

Frankly I don't compare games to each other if I did that I would compare Tor to SWG and there are some things I would say that Tor needs (better crafting for one) that SWG has but they are totally different games. As far as Aeriagmes, when I browsed the type of games they have I would never play those types of games as they look boring so why would I even compare them to Tor.

As far as the internet having less customer service than a game? I don't think so. If you don't have good customer service on a internet provider you have a major problem with your internet and not having access to the internet affects more than a game so I would put an internet customer service rating higher than I would for any type of game since a game is really not that important in the scheme of things.

Are you truly stating that an MMO requires a higher level of customer service than an Internet Provider? I can't say that would be my priority.

In terms of the staff to consumer yeah. I rarely have to contact my internet provider about anything. I guess it depends on your internet provider. In the end, though, it really is an irrelevant comparison. Just because other companies are bad too, does not excuse Bioware. It is a poor defense.

Frankly I don't compare games to each other if I did that I would compare Tor to SWG and there are some things I would say that Tor needs (better crafting for one) that SWG has but they are totally different games. As far as Aeriagmes, when I browsed the type of games they have I would never play those types of games as they look boring so why would I even compare them to Tor.

 

As far as the internet having less customer service than a game? I don't think so. If you don't have good customer service on a internet provider you have a major problem with your internet and not having access to the internet affects more than a game so I would put an internet customer service rating higher than I would for any type of game since a game is really not that important in the scheme of things.

I'm comparing game companies to other game companies that are online. Mostly the staff and their level of competence, that is totally valid. You not liking the games has is totally irrelevant to the comparison I made. I never said you had to, I'm comparing the company.

Yeah if you don't have a good internet provider I'd agree. But here's the thing just because some internet providers or other businesses are bad too, it does not excuse the mistakes Bioware do. It's akin to kids saying "oh but he did it too"

Seriously people need to stop defending mediocre service. And when they don't improve, people still throw money at them. That's how things do not improve.

It may only be a very small amount of money for each person that was affected, but multiply that by how many people BW failed to provide their service to due to their own incompetence. I'm fairly sure that's a decent sum they are receiving for not providing their product.

 

We pay for 30 days access, not 30 less however many BW fail to provide in that period. (ToS and EULA play very much a second fiddle to consumer law and national trading standards, before that argument is trotted out)

 

If the service is unavailable for a significant portion of a day, as it was on Thursday, especially for us European's that day should be added on to sub time. Maybe a delay of the next payments may provide the motivation required to prevent such gross failure in the future.

 

Is it just a few of us that think it not unreasonable to get what we paid for?

I just want a mini gamorrean guard to follow me around. That would make up for all the extended down times so far

I don't care, anything else then extended CXP/XP event is unacceptable.

I don't think that will happen either, sadly, as something Eric posted during the downtime basically said it's not that easy to just extend it. (Plus again, patch happens on Tues. Monday is a holiday so nothing will be added to said patch. It would be next week at earliest.)

The internet comparison is pretty poor. This is a mmorpg the requirement for customer service is a lot higher and also is and should be a lot more interactive.

An online game should have higher requirements for customer services? Huh? Why? Unlike an mmorpg some people actually rely on their internet connection for a lot more than their entertainment. (communication, running their business to name a couple).

I think it was a great comparison that was made and points out how minor having some downtime within a game is within the scheme of things. Your point that games should be held to a higher standard than an ISP is "pretty poor" really.

And things happen? This is the norm with BioWare, I really doubt your validity for that statement considering that makes it sounds like this is a rare thing that can happen to anyone.

It is rare, how long have we had downtime of this scale before? There is a few hours for set servers here and there but over all it's pretty uncommon yet you throw nonsense terms around like "it's the norm".

Not it isn't, and there are less resourceful companies such as Aeriagames who's always way better with patching and fixing things when down much faster. They also have a smaller team. Of course, it doesn't help anyone by throwing tantrums, but that's neither here nor there as it does not excuse the level of competence in the Bioware division in the past years really.

And there are far more resourceful companies that do it worse too ... look at the recent trend of unfinished AAA titles being released and these have 100's of millions of development budget put into them.

Point is **** happens, no one is saying it should be acceptable but the key is they learn and improve and implying this is how it always is around here (downtime, lack of care) is just nonsense.

An online game should have higher requirements for customer services? Huh? Why? Unlike an mmorpg some people actually rely on their internet connection for a lot more than their entertainment. (communication, running their business to name a couple).

I think it was a great comparison that was made and points out how minor having some downtime within a game is within the scheme of things. Your point that games should be held to a higher standard than an ISP is "pretty poor" really.

 

 

 

It is rare, how long have we had downtime of this scale before? There is a few hours for set servers here and there but over all it's pretty uncommon yet you throw nonsense terms around like "it's the norm".

 

 

 

And there are far more resourceful companies that do it worse too ... look at the recent trend of unfinished AAA titles being released and these have 100's of millions of development budget put into them.

 

Point is **** happens, no one is saying it should be acceptable but the key is they learn and improve and implying this is how it always is around here (downtime, lack of care) is just nonsense.

I already addressed the thing about internet service provider. Read my past replies.

It isn't rare in terms of a mmorpg, is this the first or even 5th time it has happened? No! It doesn't matter that other times it wasn't down as long. The fact is they need to work on their staff. There's really no excuses for having a patch then breaking the game creating another longer unscheduled maintenance. Yet that's all I see excuses and comparisons. Like I said before, just because others have issues doesn't make it okay. I don't think you understood the context of when I said the norm, I meant the norm with Bioware is having issues in some shape or form. And that is the truth, that isn't limited to just patching I meant on a universal scale, not just for this game either.

Well, the point I made with a company having fewer resources is that Bioware with the resources they have, they should do better. And like I've kept saying, others doing it too or worse is not an excuse. They should all be ashamed.

Point is that "**** happens" is an irrelevant statement, it is no excuse or valid defense, and therefore holds no value to the discussion. I never implied that it's always like that, I implied that it's often like that. And that's the truth. But hey keep supporting a mediocre service, that's why they will take longer to improve significantly or won't at all. They did a poor job 3 years ago for instance, and they not doing a vastly better job now. They doing a better job yes, but good enough? Well depends on how you see it. For me, no.4

Btw maybe you don't know about the budget of Swtor's INITIAL development phase, nearly 200 million http://herocomplex.latimes.com/games/star-wars-the-old-republic-the-story-behind-a-galactic-gamble/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=63378#/0

Mass Effect Andromeda had 40 million in the budget and have less frequent issues already. And don't say I can't compare it. It's the same company and with less budget. After all, you were the one that started talking about AAA games. And like it or not, ME:A is one.

Also, there aren't many recent games that cost "100's of millions" so not sure what you mean. Can you even name more than 5? Even Skyrim only cost 85 million and I think the only game since 2013 that cost over 200 million was GTAV. Maybe there are a few others that I'm missing. But I don't think there are any with as many issues as SWTOR that are somewhat recent.

can someone help me i was non sub for few days (before 5.4a) and i resubb today 02.09.2017. and it does its thing with the patch (downloading, instaling) but then it gets stuck at instaling main assets 270 at 58%. it ALSO frezes my PC i tried geting rid of bitraider (was already off) rebooting using launcher repair utility (basicly all hte **** others tried and IT DID NOT WORK) so i am geting desperate here i paid for sub cant paly it beacuse stupid INCOMPLETE patch and my sub is draining away (even that i could handle but as i have very LITTLE free time game not working is a BIG problem for me). So can anyone help me here

Wrong place for this post mate. You need to contact CS as soon as you can so they can put a pause on yr sub while you and CS talk through the fixes to get the problem sorted. I always phone them when its a serious problem -

USA: 1-(855)-345-2186 (Support available from 9.00 CT - 21.00 CT)

UK: +44 (0)203 0141 826 (Support available from 15.00 GMT - 3.00 GMT)

France: +33 (0) 4 81 68 10 51 (Support available from 11.00 CET - 20.00 CET)

Germany: + 49 (0)221 8282 9212 (Support available from 11.00 CET - 20.00 CET)

Keith,

Please do not think we all get in a rage, life happens we appreciate the hard work you and your team does for the game I for one would like to say thank you for getting it fixed quickly and keeping us updated with all things in life stuff happens when humans are involved ignore the hate people post. you guys rock it is that simple so again THANK YOU

Back when the game was still in vanilla , even a day of overextended downtime, we got compensation in the form of sub time or something that makes up for it. It's not that you can't do it, it's that you don't want to do it.

I truly miss the original team that worked on this game. Too bad the game failed and they had to downsize with layoffs.

Back when the game was still in vanilla , even a day of overextended downtime, we got compensation in the form of sub time or something that makes up for it. It's not that you can't do it, it's that you don't want to do it.

 

I truly miss the original team that worked on this game. Too bad the game failed and they had to downsize with layoffs.

This is exactly how I feel as well.

This is exactly how I feel as well.

A lot of the players like to echo the terms of service.

"That other developer we shouldn't name" has a terms of service as well, but still, they compensate players for even a slightly long downtime. It's a show of goodwill. And SWTOR players wonder why more and more players are leaving for "The unnamed studios MMO" or other MMOs. The other MMOs treat their playerbase well. They want to keep them around subscribing for longer.

Also they leave because of the command gearing system as well.

Back when the game was still in vanilla , even a day of overextended downtime, we got compensation in the form of sub time or something that makes up for it. It's not that you can't do it, it's that you don't want to do it.

 

I truly miss the original team that worked on this game. Too bad the game failed and they had to downsize with layoffs.

to be fair keith said they are compensating for lost time.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9404105&postcount=1881

to be fair keith said they are compensating for lost time.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9404105&postcount=1881

Yes, but they shouldn't have to discuss the best course of action...

It's clear as day what players want. Extended CXP bonus...

Thanks for this post. We messed up, we admitted it, we fixed it, and we tried to put this behind us. I totally agree with your statement about our internal processes and doing what we can to prevent this from happening again.

 

---Keith

Keith,

no pun intended, the last updates, quality wise, are truly abysmal.

Just to mention this week: the CXP rate is broken, the new FP is bugged like hell, and the guild panels are bugged.

People would not mind that much though seems getting major bugs out of each patch then do becoming the norm. Top that with players frustration = truly unhappy players. There's a need to move away from excuses and start delivering quality content in a timely manner.

I'm sorry, but the "explanation" what happened makes no sense whatsoever from an IT pro's point of view. Clearly the "testing" you refer to does not deserve this term, neither the processes around deployment/etc.

I don't know what you guys dare to call testing since you are totally quiet about this, for a good reason I guess, but the only final testing procedure that would deserve its name would be running those tests on a 1:1 copy of a live server before anything goes live to countless players.

These whole working processes inside your company seem to be the most unprofessional ones I've ever witnessed in the IT industry, not only in this but many many cases I've witnessed so far since only 19 months, including even customer service and total lack of help and absolutely missing measures to escalate some serious issues for customers at some point instead of continued intellectual empty and meaningless customer servive blah blah in form letter replies like "this is going to be fixed in a future update", while it in fact doesn't happen for years and while you treat customers in those kiddo mails like stupid little childs, also in the way how those form letters are written. Kindergarden people talk to their kids that way.

Fact is you are testing nothing of relevance and/or in the wrong environment (not one that remotely euqates the live environment, probably some development environment which is way off reality), hence the continued major mess ups during patches/downtime.

Don't get me wrong, this is not a hate post, I like this game but have serious issues with Bioware from an experience standpoint so far (the ignorance regarding server population since 18+ months and letting countless players starve on EMPTY servers is another major issue I cannot accept, it's impudent), but a "do it FINALLY better/at least industry standard wise on all possible mentioned levels above including CS" post, and btw gameplay bugs can always and easily trespass testing since you rather cannot test everything even if you try, and nobody with a brain, clue and some decency would blame you for some issues slipping through, but not such a major disaster like Thursday (and quite a few similar others that happened before) which is so obvious within 10 seconds after just logging into the game and klicking just random things if the testing environment would work, given you have even remotely professional industry standard, sense making testing and general working processes and not only a sad excuse for both, measures even a player who is logging in can do better in 10 seconds.

The "explanation" given can only satisfy players with not the slightest clue about the matter or (paid?) white knights or by heart, and I personally regard this so called explanation as an intellectual insult. Definately it's also the opposite of transparent, claiming something you really and obviously don't do and/or totally wrong and superficial/basically meaningless, which is testing.

Self inflicted stress due to an attitude of acting unprofessional and illogical over and over, plus annoying customers, well done Bioware...

BTW, it is not even true that the patch got data from 5.4 instead of 5.4 a, at least not only. Fact is it got data from really old releases, which is obvious since the UI had the very old minimap layout, the smaller more slim trader window, the old mailbox with the switched position of the delete/claim buttons, the very old map layout and quite a few more old UI elements and whatnot else from really old releases. This explanaion is not even internally consistent and true in the most superficial facts. Sorry for being factual about it. At least you could get your PR "explanation" somewhat consistent...

BTW, this goes not out to Eric, who is a nice and helpful guy, and I know he has to post the nonsense he is allowed to from a PR point of view, but transparency and honesty....and being more humble would be quite more appropriate, especially the transparancy and honesty part. Claiming you are testing while you obviously don't do it remotely the right way is inappropriate imho.

Kind regards

Frank/Nal'

When the issue is software especially doing patch (UPDATES) you have much more control especially if you properly QA Test them. In this case there testing if any was truly done prior to releasing it live on servers needs to be addressed and corrected.

Yes the studio needs to know this, but not you (the proverbial you - the users/customers) What control do YOU have? Not the studio - you. None whatsoever. Your need to know is just control freak neediness. You knowing what happened does not fix the problem. You knowing what happened does not prevent it from happening again. You knowing doesn't figure into future plans. The only thing you knowing does is get your knickers in a twist about something you have no control over.

But, basically my reason for saying this was that Spuds was getting worked up over the minutia of why and all it was resulting in was getting worked up over something out of his control. So instead of getting himself worked up he should take time off.

Thanks for this post. We messed up, we admitted it, we fixed it, and we tried to put this behind us. I totally agree with your statement about our internal processes and doing what we can to prevent this from happening again.

 

---Keith

Yet his opinion is WRONG since such crap happens time-to-time. It is not just 50 cents lol, players had plans on that time, called friends, organised groups, wanted to finish their dailies and weekly, so it is FAR AWAY FROM 50 cents.

It seems biofail isnt planning to provide is any compensation (thats the reason why keith quoted the wrong message of this guy). I hope this game will loose more subscribers and money so that biofail would finally understand the consequences of their negligence and lack of compensation policy. Your customers deserve better attitude! No compensation - no subscribers

I'm likely to get berated for my comment. Yeah things did go wrong. Things in life go wrong on a daily basis. We can not demand compensation every time things don't go according to plan. We just have to suck it up and move on. If whatever goes wrong happens mid in game event then just extend the event by a day. We should not expect to have this that and everything else thrown our way. The Devs and Community team I am pretty sure were as p****ed as much as the players. Having worked as part of the community team for another popular online MMO I know firsthand the frustration faced from both sides.

Bioware should be highly commended for the constant updates that were being fed out the the player base. Players should give thought to what is happening behind their screens in order to get things rectified rather than take to their keyboards to sound off.

Sometimes things never go as planned. We just need to accept that. We need to be patient, and have faith that things get fixed in a timely manner.

I'm sorry, but the "explanation" what happened makes no sense whatsoever from an IT pro's point of view. Clearly the "testing" you refer to does not deserve this term, neither the processes around deployment/etc.'

I'd say they knew about most bugs before going live, but maybe the ones due to messing with the Source Control and overwriting couple of files with long gone versions.

What it looks like now is not only Keith is pushing hard the guys to publish the content before it's even remotely green for test phase, but also the experienced devs have been replaced by newcomers which are messing with the code and the versions. The former would make sense considering BioWare shifted the focus on BF II but also most importantly Anthem and so pulled devs from both Mass Effect and SWTOR.

Now regarding Anthem, here's when the hard reality strikes in. Kokatu (source)

Yet his opinion is WRONG since such crap happens time-to-time. It is not just 50 cents lol, players had plans on that time, called friends, organised groups, wanted to finish their dailies and weekly, so it is FAR AWAY FROM 50 cents.

 

It seems biofail isnt planning to provide is any compensation (thats the reason why keith quoted the wrong message of this guy). I hope this game will loose more subscribers and money so that biofail would finally understand the consequences of their negligence and lack of compensation policy. Your customers deserve better attitude! No compensation - no subscribers

Totally agree with this.

If that is the response we are gonna get, then everything is clear. I guess i'll play a couple class stories more till my sub runs out next month, and that's it.

It's fine, some people like me think we deserve a compensation for such a fail, the Nth fail. Others think we deserve nothing. The response we get from Bioware is this one, in order to "put this stuff behind us".

Very well, it's my prerrogative to take my money elsewhere, and i'll do so if i dont see any sign of amendment until my sub runs out. Ffs, "50 cents", "redeemable codes"...it's pathetic. But sheep wanna be treated like sheep, fine, i wont be.

I'm likely to get berated for my comment..

There is an even more funny thing : The word "beraten" means "give counsel" or "advise someone" in German language ...

http://dict.leo.org/englisch-deutsch/beraten