They Devs said back in beta they added the stupid proofing so they did not need t have any kind of AC swaping, if you pick the wrong AC re-roll

they are ADVANCED CLASSES, not spec they are CLASSES

They Devs said back in beta they added the stupid proofing so they did not need t have any kind of AC swaping, if you pick the wrong AC re-roll

 

they are ADVANCED CLASSES, not spec they are CLASSES

Then why wasn't the content designed around the ADVANCED CLASSES and not the base archetype?

Then why wasn't the content designed around the ADVANCED CLASSES and not the base archetype?

Same reason as everything else ever? Money.

Your asking for more time spend voice recording (almost doubling it in fact) and more time spent developing individual AC class quests.

BW doesn't have infinite time or money to get the game out.

Is there any chance of seeing this added to the game?

 

As far as I know, there are no story differences between advanced classes--so there's no reason to prohibit it.

chaning advanced class is like switching to a whole new class

Great points and I don't think anyone is arguing the important nature of the decision of the AC. I think the point is, if it were that important, why wasn't the content designed around it so that when you DID level up again as the alternate advanced class you would have an entirely different storyline to work through.

This is exactly the point i was going to make. Comparing switching ACs to switching between more traditional class structures in an mmo is not the same. The playstyle of the ACs are both similiar until you get at least midway through the game, and so whereas if they were two seperate classes you'd have multiple sets of abilities/skills, here 70% of them are the same. It's just not fun leveling the same class over and over just because you want to experience another 'tree' of the class.

Your ignorance is scary.

 

 

FFXI ---->

 

<--- FFXIV

 

Not to mention about 5 other titles <.<

i like this..

however...you do have to level each class seperately starting off at level 1. so therefore the stance that people wouldnt know how to play a juggernaught compared to a marauder is valid..

would be cool to have the same character be able to level multiple classes or "jobs" loved that in ffxi. but the point is going through each class and leveling it separately and learning how to function.

Why do you care if others can switch their AC? If you feel like it's such an "important" choice then you can just not take advantage of it...the stories are identical, ACs for each class are nearly identical, the only reason they're leaving it out is because bioware wants the appearance of 8 classes.

They are 8 classes.... They play almost nothing alike aka, my Merc healer would be far from a powertech tank.

Its quite simple to me. I would like to be able to switch advance class, but if you do not want to then DONT use it. Play the way you want to play and let others play the way they want to play.

That's not how a game works. You don't chosse the way you play, the developers choose the way everyone play, and everyone use it.

In other games, you choose a class at creation and never change it. Nobody finds it strange, even if the story is the same for all classes.

Bioware use a system A BIT different, and suddenly everyone is asking for class change... which is stupid.

You are specialized, you are trained in the way of one class. Changing from guardian to sentinel is totally not realistic in terms of lore. You choose your specialization, you choose your class, you keep it.

I would also like to post my support that they do not allow advanced class changes. Every Advanced Class has the potential to fill a couple roles in the group, so I do agree with the dual spec options down the road.

If you wanted to heal when you first started, and then later decided you want to tank, well... roll a new character.

Personally, I think they should allow you to change between Level 10 and 20. After that you're given a "final choice" where whichever one you pick you're stuck with, but giving that ten level gap to let people experiment will save a lot of frustration whilst still maintaining that all important "it is restricted" vibe about it.

Let us be honest though, I can see them implementing a "change your AC for a big sum of credits" soon enough.

Leveling up to 20 for a 'final' choice wouldn't change things much. Most classes have really defining skills after lv20.

I would like to see it, even if they limit it to once per month or something.

Or when I get to 50 as an assassin, give me the option of starting a sorcerer at a higher level than 1.

These are good arguments. But not as good as alot of responders believe and I don't see that anyone has addressed them yet. So I'll give it a whirl.

 

Reasons to disallow AC switching;

~BW wants you to roll alts, BW wants to keep you playing as long as possible (which you can't fault them for they're a business) rolling a new character and leveling them up will consume more of your time, simple carrot on a stick model.

The strongest point that you've made and one I can't disagree with entirely, this does lessen replay value. However, as has been pointed out, the shared story and quests between the Advanced Classes already limits replay value. In less story driven MMO's players would do the same quests when leveling without blinking an eye, or in an MMO like WoW there is tons of excess leveling content not on a set rail or order and they could actually do entirely different content. This game is so story driven that your second AC will do the same stuff over again and you will notice. Some players will find the opportunity to do it all again with different choices compelling, others will not.

~It would directly lead to a rise in ninja looting in pugs (which would exasperate the 'companion' issue) , although the same argument could be made for duel speccing I guess but the point is it wouldn't help

No. Not a strong point. As you already mention Dual Speccing will cause this to be a problem already and, as we've seen from WoW, a need/greed loot system can be programmed that mostly eliminates ninja looting. Ninja looting should be addressed up front by the programmers, it shouldn't be used as an excuse to deny features.

~FotM rerolls would be crazy; 'omg they buffed sniper engineering!?!?' all the operatives re roll which in turn leads to more ninja looting as they desperately try to gear up their new snipers. Now I'm sure I'm going to get plenty of responses to this like 'I'd never do that' but lets face the truth here it will happen no matter how much indignation we have.

For one, if someone becomes a sniper and goes into a flash point or instance and rolls for sniper gear, that's not ninja looting, that's just looting. And yeah maybe to a point there'll be the need for new gear, but this is where your "hunter to paladin" comparison is less accurate. The difference between a Mercenary and a Powertech is much more like the difference between a Mage and a Warlock. Both need AIM gear primarily, even Powertech tanks need AIM gear. The majority of their gear will stay viable and there will be no 'desperation' to get the newer gear with more optimal secondary stats.

~It will lead to people no knowing there class; Now I'm not in the best position right now to make that call in most people's eyes here because of my fundamental gaffe up above. But Like I said in my first post ACs are different (granted somewhat less so they then could be by sharing some abilities and having the same resource management), part of the leveling process is learning how to play your class you aren't going to get that with instant rerolls.

Do you really want a marauder who wants to try tanking despite never playing it before in marauder gear (trying to get some immortal gear in your pug) tanking for the first time ever with no idea what they're doing?

Yes. After spending 30 minutes to an hour waiting for a tank to be available, I do want a marauder who wants to try tanking despite never playing it before in 'marauder gear' tanking for the first time ever with no idea what they're doing. You know why I want that? Because the ugly truth is THAT is how you get a viable number of tanks in this game. Flashpoints, in this game, are 4 man instances, that's two dps, one tank, and a healer, an even worse ratio than in WoW. What you've described, though you've put in the worst possible light, is one of the best reasons to ALLOW advanced class changes, it makes it easier for the game population to achieve an equilibrium between the party roles.

~It takes away the meaning of the choice; By choosing to play an assassin you chose to play a primarily melee class with some (mostly instant cast proc based spells) with stealth and tanking options, if you want to play a healing spell caster you should have to level a healing spell caster like everyone else who wanted to play a healing spell caster did (and vice-versa).

That becomes a question of values I suppose. I don't value that choice as highly as you do. In fact, I think a new player should be able to log into the game, just start leveling, get to level 10, should be able to make an advanced class choice just based on the brief description given in game, and if he finds out he made that choice wrongly, be able to go back on it and see how the other half lives. I don't think a choice that you make at level 10 should permanently define your character.

So, two more reasons to allow Advanced Class Switching

It allows twice as many players to address role deficiencies on their servers, thus halving the likelihood that you will be pressured to change specs. If you don't want someone telling your Rage Juggernaut to go Immortal or go home, then the best thing you can hope for is the chance that they can tell someone's Rage Marauder to do it instead.

Two, it prevents new players from completely ruining their game experience with an unresearched choice during the first ten levels of play.

NO, NEVER ALLOW AC SWITCHING

Thank you

These are good arguments. But not as good as alot of responders believe and I don't see that anyone has addressed them yet. So I'll give it a whirl.

 

 

 

The strongest point that you've made and one I can't disagree with entirely, this doesn't lessen replay value. However, as has been pointed out, the shared story and quests between the Advanced Classes already limits replay value. In less story driven MMO's players would do the same quests when leveling without blinking an eye, or in an MMO like WoW there is tons of excess leveling content not on a set rail or order and they could actually do entirely different content. This game is so story driven that your second AC will do the same stuff over again and you will notice. Some players will find the opportunity to do it all again with different choices compelling, others will not.

 

 

 

No. Not a strong point. As you already mention Dual Speccing will cause this to be a problem already and, as we've seen from WoW, a need/greed loot system can be programmed that mostly eliminates ninja looting. Ninja looting should be addressed up front by the programmers, it shouldn't be used as an excuse to deny features.

 

 

 

For one, if someone becomes a sniper and goes into a flash point or instance and rolls for sniper gear, that's not ninja looting, that's just looting. And yeah maybe to a point there'll be the need for new gear, but this is where your "hunter to paladin" comparison is less accurate. The difference between a Mercenary and a Powertech is much more like the difference between a Mage and a Warlock. Both need AIM gear primarily, even Powertech tanks need AIM gear. The majority of their gear will stay viable and there will be no 'desperation' to get the newer gear with more optimal secondary stats.

 

 

 

Yes. After spending 30 minutes to an hour waiting for a tank to be available, I do want a marauder who wants to try tanking despite never playing it before in 'marauder gear' tanking for the first time ever with no idea what they're doing. You know why I want that? Because the ugly truth is THAT is how you get a viable number of tanks in this game. Flashpoints, in this game, are 4 man instances, that's two dps, one tank, and a healer, an even worse ratio than in WoW. What you've described, though you've put in the worst possible light, is one of the best reasons to ALLOW advanced class changes, it makes it easier for the game population to achieve an equilibrium between the party roles.

 

 

 

That becomes a question of values I suppose. I don't value that choice as highly as you do. In fact, I think a new player should be able to log into the game, just start leveling, get to level 10, should be able to make an advanced class choice just based on the brief description given in game, and if he finds out he made that choice wrongly, be able to go back on it and see how the other half lives. I don't think a choice that you make at level 10 should permanently define your character.

 

 

 

 

So, two more reasons to allow Advanced Class Switching

 

It allows twice as many players to address role deficiencies on their servers, thus halving the likelihood that you will be pressured to change specs. If you don't want someone telling your Rage Juggernaut to go Immortal or go home, then the best thing you can hope for is the chance that they can tell someone's Rage Marauder to do it instead.

 

Two, it prevents new players from completely ruining their game experience with an unresearched choice during the first ten levels of play.

frankly i think the arguements you quoted are more compelling than the ones you made. However, this may also be due to the fact that i share the same opinion with them. I think this is really a matter of opinion and very meaningful arguements can be made for both sides. You have to define and get on the same page about which issues or aspects you are trying to preserve or destroy before you make an arguement about how to go about doing so. Right now people are argueing different points which are great in their own right but pretty much is apples to oranges, which is your favorite!! Either way i highly doubt they will allow you to switch AC not because it is my opinion that it is totally stupid...but because it is theirs...

I still want to be able to respec my AC personally, but Ill be fine if it never happens. Not every MMO has to be WoW.

WoW doesn't allow you to change class on the fly either.

Repeating non-starter zone quest content while leveling alts is a given in any contemporary MMO. Whether it is a completely new class (to you) or a copy of an existing one.

Unfortunately, this game is more linear than others and that makes the repetition even more unpleasant.

It would be nice if they did add a AC switch option. Adding it at level 20 and only allowing you to do it once would be a good idea, that way if you need new gear you can get it from quest rewards and you have a companion to help with your now gimped char until its done.

Also this way if you liked your old AC you wouldn't switch in the first place and if you didn't like the new one then you know the whole class isn't for you and time for reroll. Other games give you the gist of your class within the fist 10 levels and if its not good for you its not been a lot of time wasted, thankfully SWTOR has slower leveling times but that kinda works against you finding you char (please note i want the current speed of leveling to stay! its awesome leveling!!!)

The argument of redoing same story isn't really a good one, making an alt char in a lot of other games forces you to redo same areas and i have never played another mmo that's class story driven rather than a main plot for everyone (also space bar skips stuff ).

Only allowing this once would stop people hopping between AC's. Yes you are correct that AC is a class and not a talent spec but you can change spec more than once and in future will have dual spec so it would not be like that at all. Its nice that people can roll a class and instantly enjoy the choice they made, its also nice that people can get to 20-30 say nah its not for me and have the patience to do it again with the different AC choice.

Personally i have made my choice as IA Sniper, it was my first choice and i love it but in my opinion me liking it was nothing but dumb luck, i had no idea how it played and from what i hear the other AC plays completely different being up close and being stealthed or even healing! Nothing like being behind cover a good distance away and using a sniper rifle.

For the most part I'm against AC Switching I think when you pick your AC it should be a meaningful choice.

That being said I do believe BioWare dropped the ball a bit in how they handle advanced classes. You level to 10 with no introduction to them then you have a 5 second introduction to what is suppose to be a very important decision.

I wouldn't be against having the ability to switch between ACs till at least level 20 at which point you get locked in, or having a much more involved AC Quest that better gives a person a feel for what the two choices will be like.

But that's my opinion.

For the most part I'm against AC Switching I think when you pick your AC it should be a meaningful choice.

 

That being said I do believe BioWare dropped the ball a bit in how they handle advanced classes. You level to 10 with no introduction to them then you have a 5 second introduction to what is suppose to be a very important decision.

 

I wouldn't be against having the ability to switch between ACs till at least level 20 at which point you get locked in, or having a much more involved AC Quest that better gives a person a feel for what the two choices will be like.

 

But that's my opinion.

I don't see how locking this provides meaning.

Think of it like a convertible: I can switch to the occasion hat suits me but the main class is more or less the same. I don't see the meaning being lost in drive a convertible.