+1 to this post. I don't even play a knight or warrior and I agree. They aren't that hard to deal with its just when you let them roam free is when they bend you over. Learn his to deal with them and stop running around like ants in a rain storm and many you want get so wet.

I guess you are playing either pyrotech or sin then. If you are one of those smash isn't a problem but for the rest of us that want to play something else smash needs a nerf.

Most of the time (not always), players calling for nerfs have little understanding of how the class works and therefore how to counter it because they simply haven't taken the time to find out, or are making uninformed assumptions, or they simply aren't capable of learning how. Rage Marauders are definitely in this category. While this spec is certainly the most resilient and the easiest to play of the three specs, it is also the most susceptible to Sorc stun bubbles, knockbacks, and snares/roots. Here's why:

Contrary to popular misconception, Rage Marauders only have 1 leap effectively. Force Charge and Obliterate (both are leaps) operate on different ranges, the former requiring the target to be farther than 10m and the latter requiring the target to be less than 10m. The two of them together essentially perform the same function as the Close Quarters talent in the Annhiliation tree. For most end-game PvP Marauders, they will be using the Vindicator set for the 4pc set bonus that grants +10% to damage for 5 seconds following a Force Charge. A Mara with 4 stacks of Shockwave wearing Vindicator who Force Charges is the one who's going to Smash for 7k+ on low Expertise targets, and around 5k+ on high Expertise targets. The problem with that is with Sorc stun bubbles so prevalent in PvP now, Force Charge against someone who's bubbled will pop the bubble and stun the Mara before he can get off his Smash. Knockbacks have the same effect and will prevent the Mara from getting Smash off, or it will go off after he's out of range of the target.

The other major weakness of this spec is snares/roots. Against competent players, they can simply keep you snared or rooted and stay out of range of Smash. With no way to break snares/roots without wasting Break Free, the Rage Mara has to wait for Charge or Obliterate, depending on range, to come off cooldown (15 seconds). Then he can leap to the target again but may be stunned or knocked back as soon as he does and be snared/rooted again. Even if he can get off Smash each time his leap is off cooldown, that typically won't be sufficient DPS to kill anyone if they are getting healed or are a healer themselves. With Obliterate, the Rage Mara can reduce its cooldown by 1 second for every assault ability he uses, but the only assault ability that is ranged is Force Scream (I don't believe Deadly Throw counts as an assault ability, but I could be wrong). What that means is that he might be able to reduce the cooldown of his leap under 10m, but if you're staying more than 10m from him while keeping him snared/rooted, he'll be forced to wait on Force Charge (15 secs) each time.

Rage Maras shine in WZs like Voidstar where fights are often clustered around the doors, and they have great synergy with other Rage specs because of the amount of combined damage pressure they can put on the opposition. That said, most serious Rated teams will not take a Rage Mara. They'll take a Carnage Mara instead for the increased Predation, but will take other DPS classes over a second Marauder if available. Basically, if you can keep a Rage Mara snared/rooted, have Sorc bubbles and/or knockbacks, they are fairly impotent. If there is more than one Rage spec on the opposing team (Juggs and Maras), avoid clustering up and you'll significantly limit their potential effectiveness. Keep those things in mind that I've mentioned, and you'll find them to be very manageable and far less of a problem.

Hope that helps!

Avoid it?! Please...enlighten us. How can people avoid being rooted and smashed?

knockback or stun...I don't play my jugg too often but on a few occasions some people with a brain actually used their knockbacks at an appropriate time and ruined the smash...of course it's far easier to just hop on the forums and complain instead of perhaps learning a new strategy to countering smash.

knockback or stun...I don't play my jugg too often but on a few occasions some people with a brain actually used their knockbacks at an appropriate time and ruined the smash...of course it's far easier to just hop on the forums and complain instead of perhaps learning a new strategy to countering smash.

I try that, but there is one spec out there that has an immunity to KB after leap, isn't there? Haven't done my guardian yet, but know it is there somewhere.

knockback or stun...I don't play my jugg too often but on a few occasions some people with a brain actually used their knockbacks at an appropriate time and ruined the smash...of course it's far easier to just hop on the forums and complain instead of perhaps learning a new strategy to countering smash.

OK...so the mid flying air stun is pretty effective? Or the knockback while the guy is in the air?! You really think the server sync is good enough for that to be a viable strategy? You realize, I'm rooted as he leaps to me right? Unable to even pretend to KB or area mez...but you think that any "smart player" should sit there, not using any specials because 1 channeled or ANY GCD attack would allow for that split second jump/leap...instead we should all sit back and anticipate the smash...right?

An AOE shouldn't be the most damaging ability in the game or any game. It shouldn't hit harder than single damage. It shouldn't be given to a TANK. The best DPS ability should be given to dps or caster dps and not a tank.

 

Lastly, a pvp spec should not have a big advantage in terms of gear or stat returns. While every class spends stat points on crit to maximize dps, a smasher does not need crit and can put those points into surge.

 

When you combine all of this, it is easy to see that the spec is OP. However, I do not have a problem with this because I play a marauder that is smash spec also.

Jug is DPS or Tank

I try that, but there is one spec out there that has an immunity to KB after leap, isn't there? Haven't done my guardian yet, but know it is there somewhere.

There's an ability half way up the vengeance tree called unstoppable which grants immunity to cc after force charge...I really couldn't tell you how many people run that build since by doing this you sacrifice force crush meaning you only have force choke and enrage to generate stacks of shockwave.

I hate how you people always seem to think that these things can be easily avoided with team work, situational awareness and what else have you. Remember we don't all play Ranked warzones with people over teamspeak etc. With a pug it's hard to find people who are willing to knuckle down and properly play as a team. In those circumstances, yes the smashmonkey build is very overpowered.

Then again, I'm looking at it from a Sorcerers perspective, and anything that does over 4k damage and has burst is OP in my eyes since we have nothing at all.

There's an ability half way up the vengeance tree called unstoppable which grants immunity to cc after force charge...I really couldn't tell you how many people run that build since by doing this you sacrifice force crush meaning you only have force choke and enrage to generate stacks of shockwave.

And with the expansion coming out we'll see smash monkeys who can't be interrupted. Anyone who thinks it won't be overpowered then needs their head checked.

EDIT: Unless BW actually manage to shift the tree about/update it, but that's a big ask.

There's an ability half way up the vengeance tree called unstoppable which grants immunity to cc after force charge...I really couldn't tell you how many people run that build since by doing this you sacrifice force crush meaning you only have force choke and enrage to generate stacks of shockwave.

Ah thanks. I just know I have seen it a couple of times. Might not be the most effective, but it seems to keep me watching for it a second.

Make smashers as 'desirable' as DPS mercs/commandos in RWZs.

Then see for how long they defend the status quo.

You're gonna get commando'd HARD.

Make smashers as 'desirable' as DPS mercs/commandos in RWZs.

 

Then see for how long they defend the status quo.

Not our fault you picked the worst AC in the game.

Not our fault you picked the worst AC in the game.

According to Rob Hinkle, balance is pretty good. Come on down here, the water's fine.

Meh smash as aoe is OP .. as spec is retarded . i kill smachers all day .. they just get annoying when you have 3-4 in every warzone...

 

The only thing BW have done is turn the class in something any retarded can play , so good players are really good at it and ******* are as always retarded.. you should do like the old tracer misile mercenary.. and bind all except the first 2 keys to smash..

this is where the problem is. multiple smashers. It seems every WZ I've entered as of late has at least 3 or more. It has become a nonstop root/smash-fest.

No one's spelled out exactly what is so OP about the spec

^ Oblivious

Smash won't be nerfed. It is doing damage comparable to Pyro PTs, and they are single target, while we are aoe damage. It's just going to get worse when they nerf bubble stun.

C'mon, does anyone seriously think they won't fix bubble stun and tone down smash? At this point all the complaints should be focused on how long it is taking.

C'mon, does anyone seriously think they won't fix bubble stun and tone down smash? At this point all the complaints should be focused on how long it is taking.

They've said they are going to fix bubble stun. Haven't said a thing about Smash. Course once they fix bubble stuns I'm betting a lot of Smashers who are sents/maras will go back to combat/carnage which has better single target burst, and then we'll all remember why we hated them again.

Also doing the same damage as Pyro PT isn't an argument considering how much less squishy you are as a Smash Sent vs a Pyro PT.

^ Oblivious

Educate me. Or show me on the doll where the marauder ravaged you?

If you can't back up your perceptions/views with relevant numbers/evidence then you need to think about why you're really frothing at the mouth and maybe put away your pitchforks and torches. Or don't, I don't really care (I play lots of classes/specs and could happily play without any one), but don't expect any sympathy from game devs or people that don't get swept up by newb hysterics: "OMG a smasher made me bleed my own blood! Nerf!" = newb hysterics.

Educate me. Or show me on the doll where the marauder ravaged you?

 

If you can't back up your perceptions/views with relevant numbers/evidence then you need to think about why you're really frothing at the mouth and maybe put away your pitchforks and torches. Or don't, I don't really care (I play lots of classes/specs and could happily play without any one), but don't expect any sympathy from game devs or people that don't get swept up by newb hysterics: "OMG a smasher made me bleed my own blood! Nerf!" = newb hysterics.

Have you not seen the insane amounts of "nerf smash" threads?

I have no problem with smash 1v1. I can see that smash is easy to counter with a coordinated team of competent pvpers in rwz. I often outdo smashers/sweepers in the "biggest hit" stat (as meaningless as that is).

However, the fact is that the majority of pvp in this game takes place in normal, not ranked, warzones, and smash is undoubtedly unbalanced in this situation. A single smasher is only a problem for those too unaware to look out for someone flying through the air. Multiple smashers, though, are a problem. They don't need to worry about who to target (I'm a shadow, target priority is the #1 determinant of what I do in wzs) because they hit everyone in the crowd equally. This is a huge advantage. There's no need to spend any time considering the target as long as they're in a crowd, which occurs in every wz except huttball. Not to mention the fact that they can completely ignore crit and stack power on all their gear.

People need to realize that smash spec is not as severely overpowered as people say it is. With some simple warzone awareness, a group could realize that the jugg that's placed himself between 4-5 enemies is actually guaranteed to die if those targets would just turn and attack him.

 

The weakness of this spec needs to be exploited, and it is that the smasher is constantly putting himself in harms way surrounded by multiple enemies, and before you know it, you don't have a smash problem anymore.

 

A melee class would not complain about ranged damage without actually trying to close the gap and fight the range and stop him from free casting. The advantage ranged has is that they can place themselves somewhere in range of their healers but out of range of the enemy dps.

 

Stop complaining about a spec that is really not that powerful; it hits hard but that's required since if they can't do damage quickly they won't do any at all since they're dead so soon. People suggesting 3-5 different changes to the spec don't understand how the spec works... nerf it and no one will play it, whats the point of that?

LOL you wear the heaviest armor, and have the best burst damage in the game. That seems right to you? Most classes get pwned if they are in the middle of 4-5 enemies instantly (try playing a healer for instance). I've always thought heavy armor folks should be tank types.. decent dps, but less then lighter armor wearers. This game turns that upside down. The heaviest armor has the best burst dps. It's like putting a wizard in plate... it's silly.

LOL you wear the heaviest armor, and have the best burst damage in the game. That seems right to you? Most classes get pwned if they are in the middle of 4-5 enemies instantly (try playing a healer for instance). I've always thought heavy armor folks should be tank types.. decent dps, but less then lighter armor wearers. This game turns that upside down. The heaviest armor has the best burst dps. It's like putting a wizard in plate... it's silly.

Dude, heavy armor doesn't do ****

Remember how OP Chain-Lightning on Wrath was?

 

How much it was ruining Warzones?

 

How Bioware specifically destroyed an entire AC's PVP play style without replacing it with something else?

 

Rage hits for more than Wrath-CL ever did.

Just give the sorcs back wraith chain ... you can keep your insta crit op AOE smash

In rated Rage is support damage class who object to quickly destroy wounded player, specialty normally unkillable hiller.

In normal generally, Rage is kamikaze which one way ticket