I like having the ability of being able to stealth by groups i dont want to fight, and want to have this character be mainly a dps class.

 

So with stealth in mind, i'm narrowed down to either Operative or an Assassin. The key thing i want to do with this class is dps, though i'm content having to go tank or heal with either class.

Basically, you will be better off having a good Assassin than Operative. Unless you really like healing, there's not much point to Operative right now. Plus double lightsaber >>> gun and knife

What he said ^

 

I main Operative (almost fully regular pvp geared) and I must say I'm laughing my *** off (sad laugh, of course) since I tried my assassin full PVE gear (lvl 60 both)... there's no reason to go Op in terms of which is better because Assassins can do everything an Op can, do it better, and more (a LOT more sustain in hatred compared to any DPS Op specs).

 

The only thing an Op could have over assassin is semi-burst with Concealment but the lacking survivability of Op just bites them in the arse too badly for them to be worth anything in ranked pvp. Any decent team focuses the Op as soon as he leaves stealth and beside an in-combat stealth, Ops have nothing compared to assassins defence wise as the latter has overcharge saber, deflection and a better version of Evasion (force shroud which blocks force and tech damage which is like 90% of the damage in pvp compared to Evasion which only blocks ranged and melee white damage which is only "unload" from merc, snipers and marauders).

 

Also worth noting, a hatred assassins can have crazy good healing through dot spreading and leeching strike along with an awesome fallback ability: phasewalk which is so usefull for clutch near-instant fallback near a medkit/behind an obstacle. Ops only have an evade (with concealment) that only lasts 1,5 sec and during that roll you can't steer direction, you can't roll through a root nor you can do any damage/heals during that roll compared to assassin root-removing-movement-imparing immunity + 150% mov speed for 2 sec that they can use while casting other abilities (and it's only on a 15 sec CD). Ops HoTs while spec'ed DPS are puny and never managed to save me in any way (just slightly delay the inevitable) so compared to Dots and leeching strike which heals the hatred sin, the latter has better heals while also doing really good damage with their "healing" abilities (and in AoE which Op has none of).

 

On the subject of AoE: what do Ops have? A grenade that eats your energy and does really really bad AoE damage. In lethality: a ****ty half broken that almost never works ability to spread dots but that ability : (1) is really buggy and will most of the time not work properly, (2) is a cone with a really narrow angle (compared to a huge 8m wide full circle radius), (3) requires you to be in 10m range (compared to 30m for sins) and (4) requires and uses a tactical advantage on top of energy (compared to deathfield which not only spreads dots but adds a debuff on everybody hit that increases dot damage by 10% for next 15 ticks and only requires force).

 

Can you see it? xD How patheticly balanced are the classes which are technically supposed to be in the same niche? There's no consistency for balancing with Bioware...

Edited January 21, 2015 by ArielRebel

I am not with Ariel about the survivability comparison.

 

Not every sin has his force speed on a 15 sec CD, so it's 20sec without the utility (I guess most people take either that or electric bindings).

 

roll is available 30% of the time and it makes you absolutely immune against everything. See a PT alpha striking you? Roll roll and he wasted all of his CD. While Ariel is true that shroud is better than evasion, but both are purges and purge dots from you. There are still some classes which rely on white damage or have hard hitting white damage attacks (sniper, rail shot, furious strike, ravage, assassinate, maul,.... A lot of hard hitters!). And the uptime on evasion is better than shroud with the utility.

Flash bang is an instant AoE 8sec mezz. A sin doesn't have such a tool. (Whirlwind not instant most sins don't take the instant utility but possible though, single target)

Hard stun on a 30 sec CD. (Sin on 60 sec, most don't take the 10 sec reduce)

A root which makes someone not be able to turn around for 3 sec.

Sedatives -50% damage 10 sec makes the operative a 1v1 killing machine.

Shield probe, HoTs and a heal

 

I would say the concealment operative has better tools to survive and better odds in a 1v1 but the hatred assassin has much better sustained and AoE damage. The burst of a con op is better than hatred sin burst. In the current meta pressure is better than burst though.

 

IMO you need more player skill to play an op well but can be average on a sin to be fine.

 

Overall and in the current meta the sin is better than an op for sure (arenas, dot spreading, immunities) just because he can deliver and spread his damage very easily while being immune for about 17 sec (12 sec deflection 5 sec shroud).

To above poster (sorry quite awkward the forum is when on phone): the thing is 100% dodge is only for concealment. It should be available as a core mechanism of rolls for all 3 specs: lethality needs to keep his insta-noTA-required kolto infusion (or wtv the name cant remember) after roll on top of getting 100% dodge chance like concealment (with ICD of course). Similarly, Healer Ops would need a similar proc (one of the better heals should become TA free or instant also). That would make rolls a better dcd without being OP (just needs an internal CD of like 10 sec).

 

IMO, concealment Op should also get a buff after a roll (with internal CD of course) that allows the use a backstab as if he was stealthed, ie: the same damage bonus + TA given. That would not be op at all as rolls are mainly used for fleeing and can be hard to use on range enemies kiting you (cant steer nor stop mid roll).

Edited January 21, 2015 by ArielRebel

I think that looking at it from afar there would appear to be more advantages with sin. Tbh i feel a skillful scrapper can destroy a sin.

 

The thing i see a lack of is geared scrappers. I think this is because the constant griping about how scoundrels aren't optimal for raids or pvp. Everyone's like yey sins so there's a ton more.

 

As a scrapper main myself more than half the sins i fight don't know how to deal with me because they rarely fight scoundrels.

 

I think we need more data but the meta is making that difficult.

 

What can't be beat though is scrapper and shadow working together. My brother and i wreck. Me and another shadow rocked some novare coast last night.

 

Yes they're in the same niche but by no means should they be compared apples to apples. They don't play the same but achieve the same goal.

 

I see scrapper as a risk taker but also very dodgy and improvised. Sin is direct and methodical.

 

Thing is without imagination i think players have difficulty understanding scoundrels and try to play them like sins then when they suck just say sins are better.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Legade

I think that looking at it from afar there would appear to be more advantages with sin. Tbh i feel a skillful scrapper can destroy a sin.

 

The thing i see a lack of is geared scrappers. I think this is because the constant griping about how scoundrels aren't optimal for raids or pvp. Everyone's like yey sins so there's a ton more.

 

As a scrapper main myself more than half the sins i fight don't know how to deal with me because they rarely fight scoundrels.

 

I think we need more data but the meta is making that difficult.

 

What can't be beat though is scrapper and shadow working together. My brother and i wreck. Me and another shadow rocked some novare coast last night.

 

Yes they're in the same niche but by no means should they be compared apples to apples. They don't play the same but achieve the same goal.

 

I see scrapper as a risk taker but also very dodgy and improvised. Sin is direct and methodical.

 

Thing is without imagination i think players have difficulty understanding scoundrels and try to play them like sins then when they suck just say sins are better.

 

1v1 scrapper > hatred sin

Just because a sin relies heavy on dots and a scrapper can purge 2 times

Because the other hard hitters are white damage which can be evaded

Because he got more control, shield and heal

Because he can roll away and stealth if the sin has his immunities up (that 17 seconds God mode)

Because if he opens up, what he can do twice, he can debuff sin a lot

 

But 1v1 isn't important in the current game

1v1 scrapper > hatred sin

Just because a sin relies heavy on dots and a scrapper can purge 2 times

Because the other hard hitters are white damage which can be evaded

Because he got more control, shield and heal

Because he can roll away and stealth if the sin has his immunities up (that 17 seconds God mode)

Because if he opens up, what he can do twice, he can debuff sin a lot

 

But 1v1 isn't important in the current game

 

 

this is why they need to quit this 4v4 nonsense and go back to 8v8 where more classes can have a place and contribute.

this is why they need to quit this 4v4 nonsense and go back to 8v8 where more classes can have a place and contribute.

 

Absolutely agree

1v1 scrapper > hatred sin

Just because a sin relies heavy on dots and a scrapper can purge 2 times

Because the other hard hitters are white damage which can be evaded

Because he got more control, shield and heal

Because he can roll away and stealth if the sin has his immunities up (that 17 seconds God mode)

Because if he opens up, what he can do twice, he can debuff sin a lot

 

But 1v1 isn't important in the current game

 

Yeah 1v1 is not viable in arena. That much is clear. However in regs it can decide games when 1v1 situations can occur on defense nodes.

 

I totally agree that 8v8 should come back. There's more strategy and every class has ample opportunity to shine.

 

4v4 is detrimental to classes that depend on freecasting ie commandos, and gunslingers. Make a tiny room with lots of los, these ranged classes are out of their element but are still expected to keep up.

Overall hatred sin is better for arenas. They can put out a lot more pressure, but they are also a broken spec. I don't necessarily think the damage is what makes them broken though.

 

I havent met many sins that can take my op 1v1. The roll buff is a life saver in 1v1. I'm sure there are plenty of sins that can beat me, but I think what one of the above posters said is true: a lot of people don't seem to know what to do against a skilled concealment op if it comes down to a 1v1. This has happened to me in solo ranked 3 times today and I won against a jugg, a hatred sin, and another concealment op. This is because there aren't very many good geared ops left IMO. I'm 1 enhancement away from being min maxed ranked and can dish out severe single target damage. Ops don't really shine in team environments because they are really more built around solo encounters IMO. Therefore if you want to more of a team player sin is the better bet. If you want great single target pressure and strong solo spec concealment is a great choice.

From my own personal experience being an concealment op. The stealth class I find most troublesome is another op. Generally I blow up assassin's fairly quick unless they pop defensive cds then I just kite them until it runs done then finish em. Don't get me wrong though, somebody who is really good at their class will feel over powered when going up against them. I have found some hatred assassins a real pain in the @ss.

 

A good operative/scoundrel can destroy someone within seconds, so fast some people are not quick enough to react

 

My opinion roll operative/scoundrel, the kings of stealth

Edited January 24, 2015 by Skot-

Concealment is better than Deception, while Hatred is miles better than Lethality.

Shroud is pretty crazy atm, but Concealment ops has some neat survival tools as well, esp. cheapsauce roll, which has high uptime, and makes you immune to every damn thing, unlike shroud, after which you can still get some hard hits from e.g. mercs or juggs. Imo good ops is the most annoying 1v1 class, regardless what you play.

Assassins are OPed . OP = Easy-Mode=Fun=Assassins

 

FotMs change, so whichever is "better" now might not be in a few months. -which is why you should always play the one you enjoy the most and the FotM.

With the new Discipline system you can now get a better feel for the class is like at level 10, so roll on of each and see which you prefer.

FotMs change, so whichever is "better" now might not be in a few months.

Wrong for Ops. Ops were never really op. They got harshly (unwarranted) nerfed (removal of knockdown/stun when opening from stealth to name only one) while assassin gets to keep theirs (spike)... logical.. which proves that there's a biase toward sins more than operatives.

Wrong for Ops. Ops were never really op. They got harshly (unwarranted) nerfed (removal of knockdown/stun when opening from stealth to name only one) while assassin gets to keep theirs (spike)... logical.. which proves that there's a biase toward sins more than operatives.

I don't know...I remember feeling pretty OPed back at launch and a few moments in between.

...Let's not forget the endless rolling or the crouch exploit.

Crouch=/=Cover

I don't know...I remember feeling pretty OPed back at launch and a few moments in between.

...Let's not forget the endless rolling or the crouch exploit.

Crouch=/=Cover

 

Well, I started playing when we had a 1.5 sec knockdown which was by itself far from OP (i mean, sins have 2 sec stun when opening, PTs have 2.5 sec on carbonise (which can be 3.5 with utility) so grapple + carbonize is pretty much the same (or better as you can seperate an enemy from his teamates and carbonize is AoE) as an opener ...

Edited January 29, 2015 by ArielRebel