I'm not sure how many of you actually looked in-depth at the patch notes for arsenal mercenaries but they didn't actually get nerfed.

 

Those spamming tracer missile got nerfed but the sustainable damage of the class got a very slight buff(from a mercenary on the PTS)

Un no because Assassins eat Unload for breakfast (apparently their new goto move) with an innate 10% defense, and lightning reflexes can trigger on all 6 hits in an Unload. Also, their barrier loses 1% of defense, which is actually pretty significant (looking at 35% mitigation instead of 40% now) so you'll be able to burn them down faster. Yes Unload is actually very powerful, but Assassins are probably the strongest class against non Force/Tech type attack in the game since we start with 10% evade and you can get 4% more from the bottom of the Darkness tree.

Personally i like the Tankassasin as it is. There are only 3 minor changes i would like to see.

An increase on range in both Wither and Mass Mind Control. Seeing as how i often have it that there is one enemy just outside of its range.

And a slightly bit more armor. 3-5%

Apart from that i think the Tankassasin is fine as it is.

The dps assasin however is pretty bad. from my own experience it does both less damage and can take less damage then the other dps classes.

~Edited~

Oh wait there is one thing i would love to see even more. A slight increase in force. As i never seem to have enough.

An increase on range in both Wither and Mass Mind Control. Seeing as how i often have it that there is one enemy just outside of its range.

 

And a slightly bit more armor. 3-5%

 

Apart from that i think the Tankassasin is fine as it is.

I agree to that Wither could use a slightly larger area. Aoe threat is such an issue sometimes but well this is no biggie since people can just adjust I suppose to the fact that tanks in this game don't tank as much.

I also agree that we could use a tiny bit more armour. Not much though, perhaps 3% as you mentioned.

I would also like that Dark Ward did not have charges since we go from on par and just fine to pretty worthless when it drops. It should be enough that we have to spam it to get up to the mitigation other tanks have doing nothing. We even loose our 2 piece pve bonus when it drops.

If we got this I would consider assassin tanking pretty much fixed and done.

Like I stated before, I think our Tank aspect is fine, I think our other two specs are terrible especially Deception.

PVE - Sure we have some decent DPS when we get a target standing still that you dont have to run away from their attacks every five seconds that cause DPS to stop as opposed to Ranged DPS who get to sit back in safety and just fire away to their hearts content.

PVP - Terrible, the amount of melee damage you can do as Deception is laughable, I can go Tank spec and deal out twice the damage as a Tank than I can with Deception.

IMO - Deception needs a severe buff to its Melee abilities to be at LEAST on par with the other melee classes in the game at this current stage (being on par with range will never happen).

Right now we are all glass and NO cannon, anyone who argues differently is under 50 and has no idea what pvping at 50 is with everyone having BM gear.

I'm going to assume you were high when you wrote this and give you a pass. If you weren't high, don't tell me. Just please do reroll. Preferably to another game.

Oh boy how old are you? Ten?

If you think that our DPS as Deception is REMOTELY fine then you are obviously a noob under 50. At 50 with everyone in BM gear youll see a drastic difference in our class and see the only way to compete in PVP is with our Tank spec and DPS gear and even then it takes a year to kill something.

If you say Deception is fine the way it is, you are high not me, its pretty obvious how terrible our DPS is when people you are attacking don't even stop to waste their time with you.

Full BM gear - V/S V/S Recklessness Shock Discharge rinse and repeat for our DPS simply does not get the job post 50

Haha, This thread makes me laugh. I agree with everyone who said the Sin is perfect the way that it is right now. There are a few minor tweaks that need to be worked out, but no major changes are needed.

Let me help the above poster who was complaining about Deception dps, and all those who have complained about the positional requirements and low dps. As a player who has tried all three tank classes and currently am playing a power tech. I have also quested and pvp'd with very good Assassins.

1. Darkness is hands down the most fun tanking spec in the game. Cooldown, mitigation, self heals, and the different ways to handle fights is amazing. Yes, they need a very small armor buff, but the truth is if you are handling your cooldowns well than your mitigation is smaller. Granted if you pop your Shroud at the wrong time you can royally screw your healers. I forgot to keep Dark Ward up during a 3 minute fight and my healers were screaming ***! Easiest pvp spec out of three as well.

2. Deception - All the complainers about this spec are ridiculously crazy. Yes they need some survivability changes, but my goodness if you want more dps please learn to use your class. Deception is not designed to take on the tanks. Quit attacking the heavy plate wearing Knights/Warriors and Vanguard/Powertechs. A deception can eliminate a healer faster than any other class not named Annihilation Maruader. Yes without Maul clicking your dps is laughable. You do know that you can run through spin and maul someone before they turn around right? Stop using your keyboard to turn and you will find it much easier. I have played with some good deception pve/pvp players, and they are dangerous in groups. Though weak when pulled away from the group.

3. Madness - Is fine and very strong. If you don't want to deal with positional requirements roll madness and have some fun.

I do agree with TheOpf in almost all Points, except on 3. Madness and the addition to Deception that a minor Damage Buff for PvE would be worthwhile, e.g. 50% Proc Chance on Surging Charge, which would have minor impact in PvP.

Concerning Madness:

In my opinion playing a primarliy DoT based Melee Class doesnt work too good in PvP at all. DoTs do need some time to be effective, but playing a melee with poor Defense u often do not have Time to wait until Damage comes along.

so long

I am a Valor rank 72 sin in full bm AND rakata gear.

Darkness either 27/0/14 or 31/0/10 DOES NOT LOSE to any other class 1v1 EVER (stalker gear) and if anything for PVE simply changing dark ward to not have charges and lasting 40 seconds would be all you would ever ask for.

Deception - PVP, honestly, its worthless in comparison to Darkness, sure if you play it right and only go after healers/sorcs you can be somewhat useful, however you are glass and requires good healers to be effective for a match.

as far as pve goes, Madness is more dps and you will never have force problems if you somehow forget to pop your cooldown on cooldown.

Madness - While ive read a few people in here say they dont see it being useful in pvp, i dont understand you.

i run 7/3/31 in both pve and pvp when i run madness.

heres the rotation for deception v/s, v/s, shock, discharge, maul, assassinate

heres the rotation for madness death field, creeping terror, discharge, shock (only for buff, and can be skipped in pvp replaced by a thrash) thrash (till proc usually only 1) crushing darkness, thrash (or maul if proc), assassinate.

as you can see there is only two-three more gcd being used by madness before you get a kill (on average) and the spec is NOT crit reliant and IS NOT recklessness reliant.

as far as pve goes it has higher theoretical dps.

as far as changes to our class goes, they need to somehow nerf darkness for PVP only as it is the only viable pvp spec (if you pvp as it in full stalker gear you will agree with this once you try to go back, trust me) and i dont even know how to fix deception in pvp, its burst damage is great but its only reliable every minute and 15 seconds (with pvp set bonus).

madness is perfectly balanced for pvp currently as the survival-ability deception lacks madness gains in in ranged abilitys and minor self healing, however if you get focused your still squish. its just madness grants more options rather than deception and its only way to do anything is to go into the enemy team and hope you can find a 1v1 or no1 targets you.

i hope this was illuminating.

you are not supposed to 3 shot someone on opposing team before they can react as any dps.

dps operatives and scoundrels currently do this, as do commandos and mercs... stunned an dead in 5 seconds flat, same with grav round and tracer missle spam

Deception is nice burst, but without an awesome healer, you also die in seconds if you fail to kill your target (which happens with mercs/commandos most of the time for me. Powertechs and vangards are also a pain, but less so, as I don't die in seconds. Juggernauts, compared to powertechs are a joke imo. at least those not specced for damage anyway.

OVERPOPULATED?

 

You cant be serious...realy. Sorc and Mercs are played atleast 70% more then the assassin and any other class.

this is true... mercs/commandos and sages/sorcerers are most played, at least on my server when it comes to PvP. But there are a lot of assassins also, same with marauders.

Exactly my point as some people above keep arguing again Darkness is yes good, I keep trying to argue that Deception/Madness, Deception most of all need buffs.

If we are going to be "Glass Cannons" as Deception, I need less glass and more cannon. As the above poster stated which is pure fact for ops/smug they can stun lock you and kill you in a few seconds flat.

Then there is the fact that BH/Troopers wear Heavy armor and we dont do jack damage to them. I can beat on a BH healer all day in deception as he laughs and walks away, mercs on the other hand I can get down most of the time.

I am a Valor rank 72 sin in full bm AND rakata gear.

 

Darkness either 27/0/14 or 31/0/10 DOES NOT LOSE to any other class 1v1 EVER (stalker gear) and if anything for PVE simply changing dark ward to not have charges and lasting 40 seconds would be all you would ever ask for.

 

Deception - PVP, honestly, its worthless in comparison to Darkness, sure if you play it right and only go after healers/sorcs you can be somewhat useful, however you are glass and requires good healers to be effective for a match.

 

as far as pve goes, Madness is more dps and you will never have force problems if you somehow forget to pop your cooldown on cooldown.

 

 

Madness - While ive read a few people in here say they dont see it being useful in pvp, i dont understand you.

 

i run 7/3/31 in both pve and pvp when i run madness.

 

heres the rotation for deception v/s, v/s, shock, discharge, maul, assassinate

heres the rotation for madness death field, creeping terror, discharge, shock (only for buff, and can be skipped in pvp replaced by a thrash) thrash (till proc usually only 1) crushing darkness, thrash (or maul if proc), assassinate.

 

as you can see there is only two-three more gcd being used by madness before you get a kill (on average) and the spec is NOT crit reliant and IS NOT recklessness reliant.

 

as far as pve goes it has higher theoretical dps.

 

 

as far as changes to our class goes, they need to somehow nerf darkness for PVP only as it is the only viable pvp spec (if you pvp as it in full stalker gear you will agree with this once you try to go back, trust me) and i dont even know how to fix deception in pvp, its burst damage is great but its only reliable every minute and 15 seconds (with pvp set bonus).

 

madness is perfectly balanced for pvp currently as the survival-ability deception lacks madness gains in in ranged abilitys and minor self healing, however if you get focused your still squish. its just madness grants more options rather than deception and its only way to do anything is to go into the enemy team and hope you can find a 1v1 or no1 targets you.

 

i hope this was illuminating.

I want the formula for beating mercs/commandos please. they just won't die. I run 31/0/10 and most classes are fine, except melee Ops/scoundrels (if they get the first hit) and healer and dps mercs/commandos. Skilled Snipers/gunslingers are hard too, but I don't go for them normally. The only reason I attack mercs/commandos is that they are often healers and need to die for the rest of them to go down. Normally, I avoid these classes if I can, because I know I can't beat them. My current gear is: BM MH, helmet, ear, implants, rest is champion.

I am a Valor rank 72 sin in full bm AND rakata gear.

 

Darkness either 27/0/14 or 31/0/10 DOES NOT LOSE to any other class 1v1 EVER (stalker gear) and if anything for PVE simply changing dark ward to not have charges and lasting 40 seconds would be all you would ever ask for.

 

Deception - PVP, honestly, its worthless in comparison to Darkness, sure if you play it right and only go after healers/sorcs you can be somewhat useful, however you are glass and requires good healers to be effective for a match.

 

as far as pve goes, Madness is more dps and you will never have force problems if you somehow forget to pop your cooldown on cooldown.

 

 

Madness - While ive read a few people in here say they dont see it being useful in pvp, i dont understand you.

 

i run 7/3/31 in both pve and pvp when i run madness.

 

heres the rotation for deception v/s, v/s, shock, discharge, maul, assassinate

heres the rotation for madness death field, creeping terror, discharge, shock (only for buff, and can be skipped in pvp replaced by a thrash) thrash (till proc usually only 1) crushing darkness, thrash (or maul if proc), assassinate.

 

as you can see there is only two-three more gcd being used by madness before you get a kill (on average) and the spec is NOT crit reliant and IS NOT recklessness reliant.

 

as far as pve goes it has higher theoretical dps.

 

 

as far as changes to our class goes, they need to somehow nerf darkness for PVP only as it is the only viable pvp spec (if you pvp as it in full stalker gear you will agree with this once you try to go back, trust me) and i dont even know how to fix deception in pvp, its burst damage is great but its only reliable every minute and 15 seconds (with pvp set bonus).

 

madness is perfectly balanced for pvp currently as the survival-ability deception lacks madness gains in in ranged abilitys and minor self healing, however if you get focused your still squish. its just madness grants more options rather than deception and its only way to do anything is to go into the enemy team and hope you can find a 1v1 or no1 targets you.

 

i hope this was illuminating.

I want the formula for beating mercs/commandos please. they just won't die. I run 31/0/10 and most classes are fine, except melee Ops/scoundrels (if they get the first hit). healer and dps mercs/commandos are a nightmare. Skilled Snipers/gunslingers are hard too, but I don't go for them normally. The only reason I attack mercs/commandos is that they are often healers and need to die for the rest of them to go down. Normally, I avoid these classes if I can, because I know I can't beat them. My current gear is: BM MH, helmet, ear, implants, rest is champion.

Oh wait there is one thing i would love to see even more. A slight increase in force. As i never seem to have enough.

From someone that has an Operative, in comparison BH's & Inquisitors have a never ending ocean of energy. Whilst the Operatives have to work incrediby hard to keep their energy within the highest return point, Inquisitors/BH's can just burn through theirs with an even regen rate. Learn to manage your resources or play an Op and you'll find out just how much you have sitting there. (and don't forget that you can add an extra 20% to force energy in the Lightning Tree

I want the formula for beating mercs/commandos please. they just won't die. I run 31/0/10 and most classes are fine, except melee Ops/scoundrels (if they get the first hit) and healer and dps mercs/commandos. Skilled Snipers/gunslingers are hard too, but I don't go for them normally. The only reason I attack mercs/commandos is that they are often healers and need to die for the rest of them to go down. Normally, I avoid these classes if I can, because I know I can't beat them. My current gear is: BM MH, helmet, ear, implants, rest is champion.

Until 1.2, Merc healers are practically immortal 1on1. They can't kill you but you can't kill them either.

I want the formula for beating mercs/commandos please. they just won't die. I run 31/0/10 and most classes are fine, except melee Ops/scoundrels (if they get the first hit). healer and dps mercs/commandos are a nightmare. Skilled Snipers/gunslingers are hard too, but I don't go for them normally. The only reason I attack mercs/commandos is that they are often healers and need to die for the rest of them to go down. Normally, I avoid these classes if I can, because I know I can't beat them. My current gear is: BM MH, helmet, ear, implants, rest is champion.

if they have their defensive cool down up the fight lasts forever vs both specs. if your against a tracer missile spammer; just interrupt the first cast, stun the second and third and interrupt the fourth fights over by then, make sure you dont interrupt unload or full auto you can take those hits. if they do have thier defensive cd up (im counting this as a 1v1) stun them make them burn their stun-removal, dps tell your at half-ish hp vanish mind trap seethe and then return to interrupting and ****.

as far as the healers go, they wont die if they only have to heal themselves and if they do it will take a while but if your on a healer beating on them interrupting heals however you can you are being an effective tank so long as you keep taunts up on as many dps as you can.

Sins and Shadows are the most well rounded melee ACs in the game.

Vanilla Ret Paladin's were the redheaded stepchild of WoW, and only had auto attack and SoComm as there primary offensive attacks. They didn't even get a true melee strike until TBC.

Trying to compare the two is absurd.

if they have their defensive cool down up the fight lasts forever vs both specs. if your against a tracer missile spammer; just interrupt the first cast, stun the second and third and interrupt the fourth fights over by then, make sure you dont interrupt unload or full auto you can take those hits. if they do have thier defensive cd up (im counting this as a 1v1) stun them make them burn their stun-removal, dps tell your at half-ish hp vanish mind trap seethe and then return to interrupting and ****.

 

as far as the healers go, they wont die if they only have to heal themselves and if they do it will take a while but if your on a healer beating on them interrupting heals however you can you are being an effective tank so long as you keep taunts up on as many dps as you can.

Against Arsenal, Force Shroud when you've 4 stacks of Tracer Missiles (if you wait until 5 he'd hit you with a HSM by the time you see the debuff updated to 5) and it's usually GG from there. It's only a bad matchup on Huttball where you may not be able to physically reach where the Arsenal merc is. If you want to play it safe, you're usually better off not interrupting Tracer Missiles because this ensures he cannot heal himself (interrupt that instead), though most mercs don't seem to know that they can actually heal themselves. Interrupt Tracers leaves you with a slim chance of the guy healing himself and stalling the fight long enough for help to arrive.

I actually played a ret paladin even before they had pvp in WoW all up to WOTLK

 

Deception Assassin feels almost like a pre BC ret pally.

 

it's funny how i always pick the ignored spec/class

 

I just enjoy the burst i suppose

 

 

Darkness > deception in PVE and PVP

Deception plays almost like a Wrath Enhancement Shaman with stealth than a pre-BC paladin. I mean, we have way more than Seal->Judgment Our GCDs almost resemble a current Frost DK or a hunter where we do something every 1.5 seconds or suffer.