So let me get this right.. We just got this HUGE new Reputation and Achievements UI section, but can't increase an existing one? WOW.. just WOW..

 

How about making a NEW Section just for dailies or weekly's or long term or space missions to be mission log based?

The reputation system, is far less complex (Database-wise) than the mission system, comparing the two is not valid.

While i agree that the 25 mission limit is a pain the a**, I understand why it is there.

The problem is that for each additional mission that is tracked there are multiple database tables, each with multiple dependencies, the cost of retrieving and/or modifying that data is not free. Tracking even a single mission requires a very complex hierarchy of state/information. This has to be balanced against all of the other database operations that are required to make the game work. The cost of adding more missions to the tracking system quickly gets prohibitively expensive when you multiply that by the number of players.

It boils down to the fact that the database server has a finite number transactions it can process in a given period of time and it is absolutely imperative that the server does not fall behind in processing those transactions or the whole game would break.

xrogers

Hey everyone,

 

We have seen a few requests since the launch of Rise of the Hutt Cartel for the Mission Log size to be increased above 25 and I wanted to explain why that limit is currently in place. The Mission Log, just like all other components of the game, directly affects a player's performance in game. The goal in limiting the log to only 25 missions is to help mitigate potential area server hitches and ability lag they may encounter. Simply put, players could see decreased game performance with a Mission Log larger than 25.

 

Hopefully that helps explain a bit why the limit is what it is. There are currently no plans to change that limit but it is something we will continue to monitor.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

Yeah I'm not buying it. In SWG I could shove as many quest as I like into my quest log even have them all showing on my quest tracker and still not lag the sightless and that game was made in the early 2000s. Keep in mind that we have the ability to track and untrack missions so the whole well you might start lagging from all the quest icons on the map is clearly out. Also many of the quest such as the Operation weeklies and HM FP dailies don't even have quest markers, so once again that is out. As you can see from the reactions of the community BW people don't like it when you limit them for the sake of limiting them. There is no reason to limit how many quest I can keep in a log. There is no reason to limit how many comms I can earn from me playing YOUR GAME. There is no reason to limit me grinding out rep because once again it is me wanting to play YOUR GAME. Just because you guys haven't been able to pump out as much content as people have been demanding in the past doesn't mean you slow people down to make it look like there is more to do.

/rant

The reputation system, is far less complex (Database-wise) than the mission system, comparing the two is not valid.

What about the achievements system? Some of those are trivial to track (obtaining level 55) but some are like their own quests. Especially the ones where you have to defeat a certain number of mobs in a particular area, or defeating a certain number of mobs with a particular companion.

In other words, I have a hard time believing that this is one of those technological limitations that we have to just swallow. It seems far more likely that the mission tracker was sloppily coded.

Hey everyone,

 

We have seen a few requests since the launch of Rise of the Hutt Cartel for the Mission Log size to be increased above 25 and I wanted to explain why that limit is currently in place. The Mission Log, just like all other components of the game, directly affects a player's performance in game. The goal in limiting the log to only 25 missions is to help mitigate potential area server hitches and ability lag they may encounter. Simply put, players could see decreased game performance with a Mission Log larger than 25.

 

Hopefully that helps explain a bit why the limit is what it is. There are currently no plans to change that limit but it is something we will continue to monitor.

Thanks!

 

-eric

Ok, so you guys went cheap on tech and punish the players once again. Not surprised at all. And if you guys at EAware knew about this....then why the hell did you add dailies and weeklies left and right on Makeb alone? That there has to be at least 25 missions.

Oh and lastly...get a grasp on reality man. People have been asking for over 25 mission logs sinse beta. And claiming that only "a few" have requested it sinse RotHC is an insult and slap into the face of the community. Do your job and pay attention for once maybe. Or maybe someone who gives a damn should take control..

Hey everyone,

 

We have seen a few requests since the launch of Rise of the Hutt Cartel for the Mission Log size to be increased above 25 and I wanted to explain why that limit is currently in place. The Mission Log, just like all other components of the game, directly affects a player's performance in game. The goal in limiting the log to only 25 missions is to help mitigate potential area server hitches and ability lag they may encounter. Simply put, players could see decreased game performance with a Mission Log larger than 25.

 

Hopefully that helps explain a bit why the limit is what it is. There are currently no plans to change that limit but it is something we will continue to monitor.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

I imagine having to save tons of variables from conversations is part of what Eric is talking about. (options picked, social points, etc...)

Maybe at some point a compromise? Where "box/terminal" missions get their seperate section and you can have more of them?

Of course I could be completely off, my understanding of programming is very basic - in which case, nevermind!

People have been asking for over 25 mission logs sinse beta

This. I remember many threads asking to increase the missions logs and I started several my self back in Beta.

Hey everyone,

 

We have seen a few requests since the launch of Rise of the Hutt Cartel for the Mission Log size to be increased above 25 and I wanted to explain why that limit is currently in place. The Mission Log, just like all other components of the game, directly affects a player's performance in game. The goal in limiting the log to only 25 missions is to help mitigate potential area server hitches and ability lag they may encounter. Simply put, players could see decreased game performance with a Mission Log larger than 25.

 

Hopefully that helps explain a bit why the limit is what it is. There are currently no plans to change that limit but it is something we will continue to monitor.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

Sorry I don't buy this excuse this time... Because recently, you changed the legacy window to open by default on personal unlocks tab which make the game lag each time you open it the first time after you loaded an area. If the computer is already strained after a long session of play, this tab can even make you crash.

This tab have always made me lag when my UI load the icons and checks which one I have bought or not.

Now that it is the default tab, it makes me avoid to check info on my legacy like reputation weekly limits.

The reason you made this tab be the default tab is because there are cartel coins purchases on it and you want people to buy them. You reduced quality of life and performance because of profit. So the excuse of performance at the price of quality of life doesn't stand well.

This. I remember many threads asking to increase the missions logs and I started several my self back in Beta.

God forbid the testers get listened to haha. Maybe I posted on one of your threads back then.

Operations that have a weekly LOCKOUT shouldn't have a Mission Log entry. PERIOD!

Let's be honest. It's just not needed. Add the Comm's to the bosses evenly or put all them on the final boss. Problem SOLVED. (They appear to be heading that way anyways gradually)

Hey everyone,

 

We have seen a few requests since the launch of Rise of the Hutt Cartel for the Mission Log size to be increased above 25 and I wanted to explain why that limit is currently in place. The Mission Log, just like all other components of the game, directly affects a player's performance in game. The goal in limiting the log to only 25 missions is to help mitigate potential area server hitches and ability lag they may encounter. Simply put, players could see decreased game performance with a Mission Log larger than 25.

 

Hopefully that helps explain a bit why the limit is what it is. There are currently no plans to change that limit but it is something we will continue to monitor.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

Thanks for explaining the rationale Eric. But making spreadsheets to keep track of game missions that won't fit on my list in game isn't something I plan to do. So unfortunately some new and old dailies, and other stuff will be forgotten. On the plus side though I won't be contributing to said game performance issues by being in those areas.

I don't care about tech issue and i don't buy them neither, but ... guys, devs, you made tons of new dailies/weekly and wich some other logs it is just not enough. And it's pain be so limited! At least give a subs 40 logs!

This. Even if it means you have to reduce the number of missions f2p & preferred have by 15 so they only have 10 at a time. There has to be some way to accomodate an increase for subs.

Hey everyone,

 

We have seen a few requests since the launch of Rise of the Hutt Cartel for the Mission Log size to be increased above 25 and I wanted to explain why that limit is currently in place. The Mission Log, just like all other components of the game, directly affects a player's performance in game. The goal in limiting the log to only 25 missions is to help mitigate potential area server hitches and ability lag they may encounter. Simply put, players could see decreased game performance with a Mission Log larger than 25.

 

Hopefully that helps explain a bit why the limit is what it is. There are currently no plans to change that limit but it is something we will continue to monitor.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

/facepalm

Hire better code monkeys, this isn't impossible to fix.

But...

Whoever thought it was good getting the ALPHA version of a game engine, and finishing it yourself instead of waiting, was a fool.

While i agree that the 25 mission limit is a pain the a**, I understand why it is there.

 

The problem is that for each additional mission that is tracked there are multiple database tables, each with multiple dependencies, the cost of retrieving and/or modifying that data is not free. Tracking even a single mission requires a very complex hierarchy of state/information. This has to be balanced against all of the other database operations that are required to make the game work. The cost of adding more missions to the tracking system quickly gets prohibitively expensive when you multiply that by the number of players.

 

It boils down to the fact that the database server has a finite number transactions it can process in a given period of time and it is absolutely imperative that the server does not fall behind in processing those transactions or the whole game would break.

 

xrogers

Heh... one rational well thought out response in a sea of /rants and /I_refuse_to_believes in the forum in response to Erics post.

I really think that almost every player does not understand how the server side of the world works in a modern MMO.. or more likely just does not care and demands what they feel entitled to.

I have to give Eric props for having the courage to respond into this sea of rage.

To be fair, WoW won't increase their log over 25 either, and they have even MORE dailies. People have been begging them to raise it for years but they won't budge.

LOL.. I know! But MMO comparisons are only acceptable by the pitch fork mob when it is to their advantage. You are confusing them now.

I don't believe any modern MMO has quest logs deeper then 25.... there just might be something to what Xrodgers shared above folks. But hey... don't let sanity get in the way of rage and hyperbole I guess.

To be fair, WoW won't increase their log over 25 either, and they have even MORE dailies. People have been begging them to raise it for years but they won't budge.

WoW does a better job of creating hubs to work around, and tiering their quests to sub-hubs in an area. TOR also has a lot more long term quests that you will want to carry around, things that WoW does without quests, like Daily and Weekly PVP and Dungeon rewards are tied to quests in TOR and in WOW they aren't quest based. I can't remember the last time I hit the quest cap in WoW, in TOR I hit it all the time.

To be fair to Eric and the TOR team, LOTRO has also said that quests impact performance, but so does their Deed system (similar to Achievements) and they give you more quest slots, up to 50 total, if you complete enough Deeds, which helps reduce that overhead. I'm sure it an issue in most MMOs because most of them limit your quest log.

I think what TOR really needs to look at is moving long term quests out of the quest log and make them achievements, or track them via other portions of the UI. PvP Dailies/Weeklies, OPS and Flashpoint Dailies/Weeklies, and threading our dailies better so that you don't have to grab 15 quests then do them, but instead you get 5 which string you to another sub-hub where you get 5 more and a breadcrumb to another subhub and so on.

/facepalm

 

Hire better code monkeys, this isn't impossible to fix.

But...

Whoever thought it was good getting the ALPHA version of a game engine, and finishing it yourself instead of waiting, was a fool.

Well... then be part of the solution and go write them the 100 lines of code that magically fixes the issue. oh.. wait.. you were being hyperbolically rhetorical.. my mistake.

I think what TOR really needs to look at is moving long term quests out of the quest log and make them achievements, or track them via other portions of the UI. PvP Dailies/Weeklies, OPS and Flashpoint Dailies/Weeklies, and threading our dailies better so that you don't have to grab 15 quests then do them, but instead you get 5 which string you to another sub-hub where you get 5 more and a breadcrumb to another subhub and so on.

I agree with you that the proper solution is working to reduce the number of missions people are inclined to log, rather then boosting log size. And... they probably realize this as well... but it will take them time to do so. And yes... WoW does compartmentalize their quests a bit better... but that also was not always true on their end IMO.....they had to learn how to do so.

Then again.... players CAN mitigate a lot of this themselves with just a little discipline and patience..... 2 characteristics more and more lacking in the player base of MMOs... having been replaced with mobile texting mind sets to larger and larger degree.

Eric, thank you for replying. While I understand the reason behind the situation it still a painful pill to swallow. In all fairness to Eric, he was kind enough to take this request to the Devs for an answer so don't be too hard on him.

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread so far and hopefully the Devs can get something in the works under the QOL patch coming this summer that will help out.

We shouldn't have to explain to a game developer, how to work with databases, or how to implement properly working lasting solutions to problems.

Someone did explain, how other developers handle this though.

WoW does a better job of creating hubs to work around, and tiering their quests to sub-hubs in an area. TOR also has a lot more long term quests that you will want to carry around, things that WoW does without quests, like Daily and Weekly PVP and Dungeon rewards are tied to quests in TOR and in WOW they aren't quest based. I can't remember the last time I hit the quest cap in WoW, in TOR I hit it all the time.

 

To be fair to Eric and the TOR team, LOTRO has also said that quests impact performance, but so does their Deed system (similar to Achievements) and they give you more quest slots, up to 50 total, if you complete enough Deeds, which helps reduce that overhead. I'm sure it an issue in most MMOs because most of them limit your quest log.

Personally i think that a lot of MMO quest systems might just be poorly optimized. I've been told, that database optimization is hard work(time consuming). Particularly the load handling. So it's likely low on the list of things to be worked on, once they get it to a reasonable working state.

I think what TOR really needs to look at is moving long term quests out of the quest log and make them achievements, or track them via other portions of the UI. PvP Dailies/Weeklies, OPS and Flashpoint Dailies/Weeklies, and threading our dailies better so that you don't have to grab 15 quests then do them, but instead you get 5 which string you to another sub-hub where you get 5 more and a breadcrumb to another subhub and so on.

You hit the nail on the head with this! Great ideas!!!

moving the vehicle quest to the achievement section alone would free up 4 quest slots. Having to pick up the PvP dailies has never made sense to me (we get the daily fp credit without picking up a new quest).

So, in short, once again, the game's terrible engine is to blame for such an annoying limitation.

:

^this

Heh... one rational well thought out response in a sea of /rants and /I_refuse_to_believes in the forum in response to Erics post.

 

I really think that almost every player does not understand how the server side of the world works in a modern MMO.. or more likely just does not care and demands what they feel entitled to.

 

I have to give Eric props for having the courage to respond into this sea of rage.

 

LOL.. I know! But MMO comparisons are only acceptable by the pitch fork mob when it is to their advantage. You are confusing them now.

 

I don't believe any modern MMO has quest logs deeper then 25.... there just might be something to what Xrodgers shared above folks. But hey... don't let sanity get in the way of rage and hyperbole I guess.

Then again.... players CAN mitigate a lot of this themselves with just a little discipline and patience..... 2 characteristics more and more lacking in the player base of MMOs... having been replaced with mobile texting mind sets to larger and larger degree.

Look everybody, it is our favorite Bioware apologist, here again to lump us all into a single category of mouthbreathing complainers for easier compartmentalizing into her small small world.

People are running out of room in their logs for carrying around quests they have a legitimate reason to want to carry around. People have made good points about the achievement system not causing serious problems, suggesting that it's not a simple issue of database server limitations.

But sometimes I guess it's better to feel superior...

Look everybody, it is our favorite Bioware apologist, here again to lump us all into a single category of mouthbreathing complainers for easier compartmentalizing into her small small world.

 

People are running out of room in their logs for carrying around quests they have a legitimate reason to want to carry around. People have made good points about the achievement system not causing serious problems, suggesting that it's not a simple issue of database server limitations.

 

But sometimes I guess it's better to feel superior...

Feel better now?

Can we get back on topic.. or do you feel the need to make more personal attacks??

Yeah I'm not buying it. In SWG I could shove as many quest as I like into my quest log even have them all showing on my quest tracker and still not lag the sightless and that game was made in the early 2000s. Keep in mind that we have the ability to track and untrack missions so the whole well you might start lagging from all the quest icons on the map is clearly out. Also many of the quest such as the Operation weeklies and HM FP dailies don't even have quest markers, so once again that is out. As you can see from the reactions of the community BW people don't like it when you limit them for the sake of limiting them. There is no reason to limit how many quest I can keep in a log. There is no reason to limit how many comms I can earn from me playing YOUR GAME. There is no reason to limit me grinding out rep because once again it is me wanting to play YOUR GAME. Just because you guys haven't been able to pump out as much content as people have been demanding in the past doesn't mean you slow people down to make it look like there is more to do.

 

/rant

/sign