Suggestion to OP: sit down, carefully read and reread this paragraph until it sinks in.

 

It invalidates the entire premise of your original post. No surprise there though.

 

I suggest you read the post above yours.

The 600 cartel coins that you mention I already get now and can spend them on packs or other features already. This means that I have more things to choose from and again can afford a smaller portion of the features.

 

My issue is therefore simply not that things are being taken away but that the comparative value of the sub compared to the whole of the game wil become smaller again. That is what concerns me.

 

Yes they are giving you more possible things you can buy with your cartel coins over time. HOWEVER, the choice on what to spend your coins on rests entirely with you. None of the content is required to play the game as a subscriber and they are not forcing you to purchase anything from the CM as a subscriber.

 

They are giving you freedom to choose. That is a good thing IMO. And remember... most of the CM content (including account unlocks) ends up on the GTN... so there is no need to even spend your own CCs on them if you do not wish to. In my play experience with several MMOs now that have a shop in them.. this one is superior in every way.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Andryah

I suggest you read the post above yours.

 

I did. I even responded to it.

 

Moreover.. the post above mine was constructive and not filled with "OMG they'll make be buy WZ access next!!" nonsense. Please do back and read the original post in the thread.

I suggest you read the post above yours.

 

I suggest everyone just calm down, relax, head to Colorado or Washington or Amsterdam, enjoy a little somethin somethin then go home and relax to a fun evening of destruction. Or saving kitties if you're a jedi.

Yes they are giving you more possible things you can buy with your cartel coins over time. HOWEVER, the choice on what to spend your coins on rests entirely with you. None of the content is required to play the game as a subscriber and they are not forcing you to purchase anything from the CM as a subscriber.

 

They are giving you freedom to choose. That is a good thing IMO. And remember... most of the CM content (including account unlocks) ends up on the GTN... so there is no need to even spend your own CCs on them if you do not wish to.

 

More choice is good but it does mean that if I want to pick the original choices I make + the new ones I have to spend more money or take something away that I did before. It still means that the sub itself buys me less when compared to the total package of the game. Not everybody may see this as an issue but the whole point for a lot of players to have a sub is that they don't have to deal with budgetting. This introduces more of that again. There was a time that you paid a sub and that was it. Now cartel packs are just fun additions but a barber shop of sorts is a proper function in game. I find myself less happy to have to worry about what I am spending in game when I already have a sub.

If people are evaluating suicide over an extra bunch of hair or eye colors, or to impersonate a talking kitty-kat, just buy yourselves some extra coins.

 

Big deal.

To say that this is "taking something away" would be like arguing that they are some how taking away the ability to play as a Cathar for free. They aren't, it's a new feature that isn't available now that will have a cost, same here.

 

Bioware has been pretty clear and obvious that anything even remotely cosmetic will almost certainly be pay going forward. They won't change WZ/OP/FP access for subscribers, to say you're overreacting is an understatement.

 

currently on the swtor web page(direct quote)

 

"Enjoy access to the full spectrum of character races in the game – Create the character that fits your personality best."

 

after cathar are added subscribers will not get all races. that is what is taken from us. this goes against what the devs said when f2p was announced.

The problem is, this seems like an awfully "cartel only update" where we're not getting anything major/wanted that doesn't cost cartel coins.

What I wonder about is what in this 2.1 update will be free. I mean actual, real free that even pure 100% F2P players can use. So far, everything we knows seems to be gated behind either coins or unlocks. Cathar, Appearance Kiosk, server transfers. I mean, it's just funny as if Bioware forgot the game went F2P model lol Edited April 30, 2013 by Pietrastor

I know that just the principle that subscribers are being charged for Cathar is causing some of your frustrations, but I hope that I could at least explain a bit about why and to help alleviate any concerns that we would ever take something away from subscribers.

 

-eric

 

It's not just the Cathar. Charging people for appearance changes, that are free in every other MMO to subscribers, is another point brushed to the side.

 

For example: If I make a new character, will the *new* customization options be available to newly created characters? Or are the *new* customizations specifically bound to the Cartel Market. This is where subs have a rightful concern. Character Creation is something that most role players // mmo players take seriously... having to pay for different looks is absurd.

 

Thank you for the response though (sincerely). I admire the honesty that you have consistently brought to these forums since you came on board. It's something this place absolutely needed.

Edited April 30, 2013 by veyl

Cathar, Appearance Kiosk, server transfers. I mean, it's just funny as if Bioware forgot the game went F2P model lol

 

Yeah, having only the 8 class stories up to 50 completely free is horrible...

 

Hope they do like in wow and cut off the f2p levelling at 20.

There was a time that you paid a sub and that was it.

 

I think I see your real sticking point right here. Yes the game used to be subscription only. It no longer is. Nothing will change that. The market is moving more and more to flexible access models. MMO developers are following the demand.

 

Game is now freemium access... where subs get COMPLETE ACCESS to in game playable content.

 

Nothing in the way of playable content is being diluted by adding more and more cosmetic items through the CM over time. Given that you are given a monthly allotment of CCs as a sub, nothing is being diluted in the way of shop content either. And as you continue to ignore.. most of the shop content is ultimately accessible to you in game via the GTN.... just like random world drops are. So again.. your access to in game content (even cosmetic) is not being diluted....except in your mind.. where you still appear to be clinging to a subscription only model.

They can't take away something you never had. The update to the page is going to reflect on the newly arriving Cathar.

 

It will probably be worded: Subscribers have access to all original species. The Cathar are available to anyone who purchases/unlocks them.

 

Again, nothing was taken away from you an option was added.

Edited April 30, 2013 by spectreclees

Hope they do like in wow and cut off the f2p levelling at 20.

Why? What benefit is there to that?

It's not just the Cathar. Charging people for appearance changes, that are free in every other MMO to subscribers, is another point brushed to the side.

 

They are not free in every other MMO. They are free in some other MMOs..... most notably subscription only MMOs.

 

Note: use of "absolutes" is generaly self-defeating in a forum discussion.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Andryah

I understand they keep our monthly allotment in mind, however if they keep adding things that some would consider content to the Cartel Market and charging them at some point it will start to out weigh the monthly allotment and force the subscriber to dig pack into their pockets and fork out more money.

 

For instance if a subscriber uses their allotted 600 to buy the Cathar then it will force them to dig into the wallet if they want to try out any of the customization.

 

I just feel like eventually if they keep going down this road they will exceed the monthly allotment given to subs and that is when it gets slippery.

 

Everyone views what they consider content differently, just like everyone plays the game for different reasons.

Hey everyone,

 

There is clearly some frustration around this but I believe there are also some misconceptions about Cathar and our intent for subscribers so I wanted to hopefully clarify some of that for you. One thing we have stressed before and one thing we will continue to do with the Cartel Market is to use it for customization and convenience options. Another goal we have stressed for the Cartel Market is to not use it as a method for pay to win.

 

Game Update 2.1 does introduce entirely new customization options, like the Cathar, which will require Cartel Coins in order to gain access to. Although I understand your frustration around this, we always take into consideration when pricing Cartel Market items that all subscribers receive a monthly grant of Cartel Coins. For example, if you are currently a subscriber who has a security key active on your account, you will be able to outright purchase Cathar with just one month’s worth of Cartel Coins. We also try to give you as much notice as possible around new features like this so that if it is your desire to purchase these unlocks, you will be able to do so solely through saving your monthly Cartel Coin grant.

 

What I think is a misconception is that this is setting a precedence that we are going to take things away from subscribers. I cannot stress enough that this is simply not something we ever intend to do. The features and functions that you pay for right now as a subscriber will remain in place. We would not, for example, suddenly require you to pay for an unlock to run more Flashpoints. On the flipside of this though, the intent of the Cartel Market is to continually add new and fun cosmetic and convenience features and in some circumstances, subscribers will have to pay Cartel Coins to access these as well. I just want to specifically call out that we will keep these cosmetic as we would certainly not want to place any of our players at a disadvantage for not spending money, AKA not implementing pay-to-win.

 

One thing I do want to call out for Game Update 2.1, which you will see more details on in the future (from both us and from fan sites) is that subscribers will see a substantial discount on some of the features being implemented in Game Update 2.1, such as Appearance Designer. Not only was your monthly grant kept in mind when pricing the items themselves, but overall things are far cheaper for you as a subscriber than a free-to-play or preferred status player.

 

I know that just the principle that subscribers are being charged for Cathar is causing some of your frustrations, but I hope that I could at least explain a bit about why and to help alleviate any concerns that we would ever take something away from subscribers.

 

-eric

 

I appreciate responding. I will however, wait and see how much you have to pay for (not just the 600 for Cathar, but the rest as well). Reasoning is simple. This is one of three MMO's I subscribe too (if I don't sub, I won't play). I am currently beta testing another MMO. When it launches, one of the three I play currently will get dropped (don't have time to play four). If the cost for this MMO is greater than three others, I will move on.

The problem is, this seems like an awfully "cartel only update" where we're not getting anything major/wanted that doesn't cost cartel coins.

 

But we have not seen the patch notes yet... only the marketing tease for some long demanded content.

 

So your statement is premature.

They are not free in every other MMO. They are free in some other MMOs..... most notably subscription only MMOs.

 

APB is free to play and the customization in that game is ALSO free, and VERY popular.

Thank you Eric for taking the time to reply with a better answer. You put my concerns to rest. Edited April 30, 2013 by Warrgames

Thank you Eric for reply and better answer.

 

+10 to you Warrgames for your show of appreciation in Eric responding.

Although I understand your frustration around this, we always take into consideration when pricing Cartel Market items that all subscribers receive a monthly grant of Cartel Coins.

 

You need to STOP considering our monthly stipend an allowance when it was given as a gift, Eric. You don't give someone a gift and then dangle something in front of them for them to spend that gift on. Some things (not all but some) should be added directly to the game and subscribers should NOT be charged a single coin.

 

Barbershop Alterations should be one of those things.

Cathar is a new option and I understand being charged for that, but to charge us to change to customization options that already exist in the game is really low. Take that to your marketing team and discuss it with them, please. And tell them to look at my BARBERSHOP Done Right! thread, if you wouldn't mind.

 

Edited April 30, 2013 by Blackavaar

Yeah, having only the 8 class stories up to 50 completely free is horrible...

Of course it's not. But if everything beyond that will become paid, then it's a trial/B2P. Definitely not a F2P model as advertised.

 

Hope they do like in wow and cut off the f2p levelling at 20.

WOW is actually very accurate and honest about its model.

 

Why? What benefit is there to that?

Can't you see? Less players to group for Heroics at lvl 20+ planets, find more people for FPs, sell things on GTN to. How can you be blind to all these benefits?

Edited April 30, 2013 by Pietrastor

It's not just the Cathar. Charging people for appearance changes, that are free in every other MMO to subscribers, is another point brushed to the side.

 

Not quite true. In WoW for example you can change your hair for gold but anything else costs real money.

Edited April 30, 2013 by DaRoamer

Hey everyone,

 

There is clearly some frustration around this but I believe there are also some misconceptions about Cathar and our intent for subscribers so I wanted to hopefully clarify some of that for you. One thing we have stressed before and one thing we will continue to do with the Cartel Market is to use it for customization and convenience options. Another goal we have stressed for the Cartel Market is to not use it as a method for pay to win.

 

Game Update 2.1 does introduce entirely new customization options, like the Cathar, which will require Cartel Coins in order to gain access to. Although I understand your frustration around this, we always take into consideration when pricing Cartel Market items that all subscribers receive a monthly grant of Cartel Coins. For example, if you are currently a subscriber who has a security key active on your account, you will be able to outright purchase Cathar with just one month’s worth of Cartel Coins. We also try to give you as much notice as possible around new features like this so that if it is your desire to purchase these unlocks, you will be able to do so solely through saving your monthly Cartel Coin grant.

 

What I think is a misconception is that this is setting a precedence that we are going to take things away from subscribers. I cannot stress enough that this is simply not something we ever intend to do. The features and functions that you pay for right now as a subscriber will remain in place. We would not, for example, suddenly require you to pay for an unlock to run more Flashpoints. On the flipside of this though, the intent of the Cartel Market is to continually add new and fun cosmetic and convenience features and in some circumstances, subscribers will have to pay Cartel Coins to access these as well. I just want to specifically call out that we will keep these cosmetic as we would certainly not want to place any of our players at a disadvantage for not spending money, AKA not implementing pay-to-win.

 

One thing I do want to call out for Game Update 2.1, which you will see more details on in the future (from both us and from fan sites) is that subscribers will see a substantial discount on some of the features being implemented in Game Update 2.1, such as Appearance Designer. Not only was your monthly grant kept in mind when pricing the items themselves, but overall things are far cheaper for you as a subscriber than a free-to-play or preferred status player.

 

I know that just the principle that subscribers are being charged for Cathar is causing some of your frustrations, but I hope that I could at least explain a bit about why and to help alleviate any concerns that we would ever take something away from subscribers.

 

-eric

 

Not good enough eric. Come back at us with an apology and a list of the complete re-hall on how the barber shop is going to work for subs.