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No Country for PVP gear.


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as it is that exact level of elitism that I find abhorrent..

 

Lol, thank you Mr. English professor for illustrating your own point of "elitism". Brilliantly done!

For being a fan of English I would think you would be familiar with context. The following sentences in my post further explained my "elitist" view that I DON'T think ALL PVP gear is inappropriate, as I stated, player skill is more the determining factor.

But why is it so "abhorrent" for me to be a "little frustrated" when someone shows up for LI HM in recruit PVP Gear or insists on tanking HM KP in partial recruit/WH when the other tank is better geared in PVE gear. Is that so elitist?

 

Maybe I generalized to much in that specific sentence that you so amazingly over analyzed, but I assumed the rest of my post would be read and my view on the matter would be further clarified. Forgive me for making that mistake. I will endeavor to avoid such absurdities in the future and be sure to run my posts by the editor before doing so. Thanks for setting me straight.

Edited by ChicagoBearsFan
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The post refers to my likes and dislikes. I will not heal a PVP geared tank or DPS. I don't ask them to leave the group, nor do I instigate a vote to kick. I tell them "I don't heal PVP geared tanks and DPS". I then quit the group. I have 2 healers and 3 DPS ( all campaign and better). When I leave 1 group...I re log and rinse and repeat. As for tionese geared players...they tend to try harder and wipe less. For all the healers who will heal the geared impaired...God bless you.

 

If that's really how you feel, then I'd be glad to see you go. Make sure you tell me why you're leaving so I can put you on ignore first.

 

To the other people in this who think like rational adults and not absolutist kids, if someone likes to both pvp and pve, there is a pretty good chance they will have some serious PvP comms saved up for when they hit 50. They'll be able to buy a ton of higher-end pvp gear, which will be a lot better than the free Tionese. In short, don't punish people for using the best gear they have.

 

They should remove the expertise stat from the game altogether, the reasoning behind its existence is flawed anyway.

 

No they shouldn't; no it isn't.

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Seriously I could sympathize with the original poster if we were only talking about the harder operations or even HM LI, but if we are including tier 1 HMFP, then as a healer I do not care what you wear as long as a majority of it is level 50 gear. I have gotten placed as a random in other guild runs with 14k hp tanks in green mainly green gear and made it through HM BoI with no problems. Provide the person has some clue about the instances or can follow directions, most HMFP are so easy that gear isn’t really a large concern to me. I never even check what others are wearing, because I don’t care. Koan is about the only tier 1 where I even think about gear. Most all HMFP go very smoothly and I am the kind of person that considers any death to make a hard mode flash point a failure on my part even if the death did not involve a wipe.

 

Yes, now, like most of you, when I get an alt to 50 they usually have 61 or better gear waiting, but I have not forgotten doing sm Ops and HMFP on my main and first alt when getting Tionese was a significant upgrade. I would have used pvp gear in an instant had it been free pack then. The only time you should use the word hard when healing a hard mode flashpoint is when you are the fresh 50 in tionese and the dps have gold fever.

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The post refers to my likes and dislikes. I will not heal a PVP geared tank or DPS. I don't ask them to leave the group, nor do I instigate a vote to kick. I tell them "I don't heal PVP geared tanks and DPS". I then quit the group. I have 2 healers and 3 DPS ( all campaign and better). When I leave 1 group...I re log and rinse and repeat. As for tionese geared players...they tend to try harder and wipe less. For all the healers who will heal the geared impaired...God bless you.

 

Any chance you could put your healers and server down so I can go ahead and just pre-ignore you?

 

If you actually think a clown who managed the difficult task of putting on Tionese is worth healing but a guy who's played all the FP/OP's and is gearing up his toon in augmented EWH is going to wipe and is 'gear impaired', I do not want to bother playing with ya.

 

It's people like this that make this game the QQ filled, whiny MMO purgatory that it is.

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Lol, thank you Mr. English professor for illustrating your own point of "elitism". Brilliantly done!

For being a fan of English I would think you would be familiar with context. The following sentences in my post further explained my "elitist" view that I DON'T think ALL PVP gear is inappropriate, as I stated, player skill is more the determining factor.

But why is it so "abhorrent" for me to be a "little frustrated" when someone shows up for LI HM in recruit PVP Gear or insists on tanking HM KP in partial recruit/WH when the other tank is better geared in PVE gear. Is that so elitist?

 

Maybe I generalized to much in that specific sentence that you so amazingly over analyzed, but I assumed the rest of my post would be read and my view on the matter would be further clarified. Forgive me for making that mistake. I will endeavor to avoid such absurdities in the future and be sure to run my posts by the editor before doing so. Thanks for setting me straight.

Heh. My original response was rather mild. The second one was more in reaction to your angry declaration of stupidity you felt I was demonstrating. I suppose I overreacted.

 

The "abhorrent" comment, actually, was an vast overstatement on my part, sorry.

 

Your viewpoint doesn't remotely fall under the actual elitism I don't like (unlike that guy who refuses to heal the wrong gear just out of principle).

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This is why Expertise needs to effect PVE negatively. If I can't use my Dread Guard/Campaign gear in PVP then YOU shouldn't be able to use your Elite War hero in PVE.

 

Options:

1.)So that 25% dmg bonus on your EWH should reduce the damage you do by 25% while in PVE, fair is fair. This would promote people going after 2 sets of gear. Either that or make PVP gear only wearable in Warzones.

2.)Or just disable PVP gear in Operations and Flashpoints ( you can wear it, just won't get any stats), then do the same for PVE gear while in warzones.

 

Bioware obviously wanted 2 seperate gear progressions, 1 for PVE and 1 for PVP. Since that is the case, they should work exclusively in their prefered content.

 

Yes I hate PVP scrubs thinking they can come into OPS and ruin the PVE'rs game play.

Edited by Creslan
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My Jedi Guardian is wearing fully min/maxed WH gear with full augments. 19K HP, over 1k damage on my main attack, over 500 on my melee bonus damage, 34% crit for melee 41% for force 945 bonus damage for force and 99% accuracy. And your telling me I cant handle a hard mode fp? I've cleared Ec hard and was not bottom Dps for any fight. I think Wh geared people can handle measly hm fps.

 

Ps. Been playing since jan of last year so by now all the fights of any fps/ ops have become pretty easy. That probably makes some impact.

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The PvE people are just mad about getting yelled at for not having Exp which you NEED in WZ's. So they took to saying they dont want PVP gear in FPs just to be jerks cuz they got yelled at for not having Exp in a WZ.

 

BUT the difference is that you NEEEEED Exp in a WZ and it just becomes a non-functional stat outside the WZ. If my stats are higher than columi not counting exp then whats the problem? Answer, there isnt one.

 

All HM FPs WH is fine for. If you dont wanna heal me, thats your problem. Im still gonna queue and Im still gonna get my rewards till I can get into some BH and Campain and DG. I wouldnt try to take on a hard OP till I had some good PVE gear.

 

But I should ABSOLUTELY be able to use WH or EHW in HM EC till I get PVE gear.

Edited by Smuglebunny
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You take away expertise and this game will lose all PVP subs in a hurry. No one wants to grind out PVE to get gear for PVP. The reverse is also true, but the vast majority of the content in this game is so easy there's no point in whining about it. I tanked every FP in the game in BM tank gear. i've tanked TFB SM and EC HM in WH/BM tank gear mix.

 

Hell, I feel like I'm tanking every HMFP in WH gear on my Sentinel. Why would I bother getting the **** low level PVE gear when I'm just in the FP for comms for exotech stims? lol

 

Elitist PVE'rs in this game are hilarious. I love getting raged at by people in box stock 61s with hilariously imbalanced stats and less damage than I have in my PVP gear. Yes, Sentinel with 107% melee accuracy, 39% crit 71% surge and 510 melee bonus damage, I'm talking to you. Show off your 22XX strength with pride while I'm perfectly statted with almost 200 more bonus damage than you. Continue to whine and rage throughout the FP. I enjoyed one shotting the rest of HMLI immediately after you left (specifically, after Savrok roflstomped you into the lava because you're bad and were far too busy clicking your attacks to move) and I no longer had to carry your lulzy deeps.

 

 

EC NiM is hard. TFB HM might be hard, haven't done it yet. Rest is a joke. Get over yourselves.

 

Edit: Also, you whine about getting hit for 9k smashes in your PVE gear now. Imagine if we could use all the PVE gear with better stats... The few PVPers that might stay would be three shotting your entire team.

Edited by Racter
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I earned my gear...I had to grind tons of HM FP's for BH COMMS. I'm sick and tired of healing PVP geared tanks and DPS. I don't want a challenge, I want my BH COMMS. Take your PVP gear...and stick it in your locker.

 

PS. I PVP and love it. I am working on a full "Elite War Hero" set. When I PVP...I stick my PVE gear in my locker.

 

 

 

Archer: Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the hogs of war.

Lana: Dogs of wars.

Archer: Whatever farm animal of war, Lana. Shut up.

 

You're just angry because PvP'ers have an easier and faster time gearing up, which I understand. PvP gear is far more versatile than PvE because it's good enough for both aspects. Any good crafter will PvP regularly for 875 wz comms to RE into stabilizers as getting 875 wz comms is way faster than 40-50 BH comms. He is also likely to get his BiS PvE set way faster than the people who only gear through operations and need to roll against 7/15 people. PvE gear is incredibly badly itemized and really cannot be min/maxed other than getting custom crafted mods. The best way to get custom crafted mods is to PvP for stabilizers. Therefore the easiest, fastest way to get PvE gear is to PvP and craft it mod by mod, enhancement by enhancement. A few dailies and HMs for the clicky DG relic and implants/ear and you're good to go for Denova NiM.

 

So as you can see gearing is heavily biased towards PvP. But that's hardly surprising given that PvP rewards participation, PvE rewards success and that you're not limited in the number of warzones you can do per week.

Edited by CommanderKeeva
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Also I think Exp should be removed and you should be able to use whatever gear you want wherever.

 

Such a pointless thing to waste our time: Expertise.

 

I can think of a few possible ways to go about PvE/PvP gearing discrepancy but removing Expertise altogether would be a very, very bad idea. We need to keep the gear gap in PvP artificially small. Can you imagine the havoc people would wreak with ~2500 main stat and ~1000 power against fresh 50s at 1200-1300 main stat and ~500 power? NPC mobs don't complain when they get one-shot. People do.

 

One thing to make PvE gearing through PvE viable (blasphemy!) would be to guaranteed BiS drops from operations. Why the f*** not do they come pre-equipped with BiS mods. I mean, seriously, who would ever use a 26A or 27A Mod in favour of plain 26 or 27 mods. Just get rid of of the #A and #B mods and enhancements and have all Unassembled Campaign and Dread Guard Pieces come with BiS mods. I think when you consider that we only get a 1:8 or 1:16 chance at an item each week, it's not much to ask for not having to min/max from drops.

 

 

Another would be to allow us to convert BH comms into DG comms, maybe at a 3:1 ratio, like you turn in WZ for RWZ comms. Seriously, TfB HM and EC NiM should drop DG comms instead of Black Hole. If you're attempting either, it's likely that you're fully min/maxed at lvl61 (maybe you can get away with a few EWH pieces for TfB idk, but NiM EC you should only be attempting when you're fully min/maxed at 61.) And we're getting Black Hole comms for doing NiM? We're past needing BH comms when we're doing NiM nightmare....

 

Either have TfB HM and NiM EC drop DG comms or allow us to turn BH comms into DG comms. And you ask, now, what is this DG commendation you keep talking about? They don't even exist.

 

Well, they should.....

Edited by CommanderKeeva
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Either have TfB HM and NiM EC drop DG comms or allow us to turn BH comms into DG comms. And you ask, now, what is this DG commendation you keep talking about? They don't even exist.

 

Well, they should.....

 

You can, but not directly. Buy boots for 50 BH, retro the Armoring, Mod and enhancement and use the stabs to buy an armoring/mod/enhancement.

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This is why Expertise needs to effect PVE negatively. If I can't use my Dread Guard/Campaign gear in PVP then YOU shouldn't be able to use your Elite War hero in PVE.

 

Options:

1.)So that 25% dmg bonus on your EWH should reduce the damage you do by 25% while in PVE, fair is fair. This would promote people going after 2 sets of gear. Either that or make PVP gear only wearable in Warzones.

2.)Or just disable PVP gear in Operations and Flashpoints ( you can wear it, just won't get any stats), then do the same for PVE gear while in warzones.

 

Bioware obviously wanted 2 seperate gear progressions, 1 for PVE and 1 for PVP. Since that is the case, they should work exclusively in their prefered content.

 

Yes I hate PVP scrubs thinking they can come into OPS and ruin the PVE'rs game play.

 

Well I tend to agree with the first part:

 

- PvE gear is for PvE. It has its own progression, its own strengths and weaknesses, disable it in PvP. If PvE players want to get into PvP, then they'll have to go through the various tiers and not immediately shoot everyone for 7k damage just because their gear allows them to.

 

-PvP gear is for PvP. It has its own progression, its own strengths and weaknesses, disable it in PvE. If PvP players want to get into PvE raiding, then they'll have to go through the various tiers and not jump straight to TfB HM because their PvP gear is good enough statwise for that.

 

Universal gear can't be implemented as long as there is progression. It would put fresh 50 PvP'ers at too much of a disadvantage. Without gear progression.....maybe....but that's another story. But let's ask ourselves this question anyway?

 

What are we playing for? Are we playing for fun, entertainment and relaxation or are we playing for something that will make our weapon do 1052 damage instead of 1051?

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You can, but not directly. Buy boots for 50 BH, retro the Armoring, Mod and enhancement and use the stabs to buy an armoring/mod/enhancement.

 

Sure but then you might as well just PvP for 875 regular warzone commendations and RE the random WH item you buy. It's way faster than getting 50 BH comms. The whole point of the post above was to complain about the fact that gearing for PvE through PvP is faster and easier than gearing through PvE.

 

I don't mind crafters being able to craft BiS mods but PvE mats for PvE mods coming faster from PvP than from PvE? That is not good.

 

That is on top of the whole "should you even be wearing it if you've not earned it?" argument....

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They should remove the expertise stat from the game altogether, the reasoning behind its existence is flawed anyway.

 

^This. The problem is that there is a double standard in this game when it comes to gear. As a purely PVE player, though every once in a while I might do a warzone but usually its on pre level 50 toons, if I wanted to to a warzone I would need PVP gear because without the expertise stat I would get slaughtered. In the few times I have done PVP as a level 50 whenever there was someone wearing PVE gear, that person would would be harrassed because they were not in the proper gear even though their PVE gear may actually have bene better stat wise then recruit gear.

 

We have the same thing with people in PVP gear coming doing HM flashpoints or Operations, yet for some reason its ok for them to not have the proper gear. What gives? The only solution to this problem is to completley remove the expertise stat from all PVP gear. That way if you prefer to PVP or PVE, you will be able to earn gear from the activity you find most enjoyable and still be able to do the other without trying to alienate anyone because they don't have the right gear.

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^This. The problem is that there is a double standard in this game when it comes to gear. As a purely PVE player, though every once in a while I might do a warzone but usually its on pre level 50 toons, if I wanted to to a warzone I would need PVP gear because without the expertise stat I would get slaughtered. In the few times I have done PVP as a level 50 whenever there was someone wearing PVE gear, that person would would be harrassed because they were not in the proper gear even though their PVE gear may actually have bene better stat wise then recruit gear.

 

We have the same thing with people in PVP gear coming doing HM flashpoints or Operations, yet for some reason its ok for them to not have the proper gear. What gives? The only solution to this problem is to completley remove the expertise stat from all PVP gear. That way if you prefer to PVP or PVE, you will be able to earn gear from the activity you find most enjoyable and still be able to do the other without trying to alienate anyone because they don't have the right gear.

 

No, it's the worst thing they could do actually. It might sound good at first (universal gear) but it really isn't. Removing Expertise is a terrible, terrible idea.

 

Think about the PvE gear gap at lvl50! Think about the stat difference between stock Tionese and augmented/optimized Dread Guard! Why does nobody ever complain about the gigantic gear gap in PvE? Because NPCs don't care if they get one-shot. In PvE you can choose a gear-appropirate challenge.

 

PvP is a big melting pot where the people in the worst gear are thrown against the people in the best gear. it is NOT a gear appropriate challenge. Fresh 50s in stock Recruit have a hard time as it is against augmented and optimized elite war heroes. Can you imagine optimized DG players smashing Recruits for 10k? The gear gap in PvP needs to be artificially small. Which means PvP gear will fall behind PvE gear eventually statwise.

 

Also, to keep the PvP gear gap small, they need to remove the previous tier, when a new one is rolled out (e.g. Centurion, Champion, Battlemaster). The only way universal gear would work if they removed previous PvE tier sets, when a new tier is rolled out. Can you imagine EV Story Mode suddenly dropping Black Hole gear, when a new PvE tier comes out? Then EV Story dropping Dread Guard at a new tier to keep the gear gap small for PvP'ers? Ridiculous, isn't it?

 

It is a bit unfair that PvP gear is good enough for most of the endgame PvE content. But as the gear gap grows between PvE and PvP tiers, you'll see that PvP gear in PvE becomes less and less viable. TFB HM is borderline at best in PvP gear but Denova Nightmare is simply impossible in PvP gear no matter how good you are. And the situation will become worse as the gap widens between the two gear sets.

 

So, what I say they should do is make PvP-gear PvP only and PvE gear PvE only. It should become disfunctional when not worn in the intended environment. This would forever settle the debate on Expertise and would force everyone to grind two sets of gear. It's the most fair way for everyone.

 

EDIT: Remove the ability to craft BiS PvE gear from PvP crafting materials. Seriously, it's ridiculous......Most of my PvP friends who never stepped foot in an Operation have better PvE gear than I have, and I raid three times a week.

BiS PvE gear from 875 Warzone(!!!!!!) commendations? Stop this madness now!

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I can think of a few possible ways to go about PvE/PvP gearing discrepancy but removing Expertise altogether would be a very, very bad idea. We need to keep the gear gap in PvP artificially small. Can you imagine the havoc people would wreak with ~2500 main stat and ~1000 power against fresh 50s at 1200-1300 main stat and ~500 power? NPC mobs don't complain when they get one-shot. People do.

You think 15% bonus from recruit gear helps that much, especially considering you loose hp and other stats from tion (I also wasn't subbed when they decided to give full free sets of recruit/tion on lv.50, looks like a very weird move)?

 

The only real reasoning for exp from players is 1) pve crowd: "hey, I don't want pvpers in my fp/op, its not fair how they got their gear!!!" 2) pvp crowd: "hey, I don't want pve'ers in my pvp, its not fair how they got their gear!!!!" - both opinions are obviously stupid. And devs are like: "what a good idea, now those idiots have to grind for 2 sets instead of one artificially extending 'quality' endgame!"

 

Anyway I played TSW for the past several months which has no exclusive pvp stat on pvp gear and it works just fine, I can play both pvp and pve to get my gear and I haven't seen anybody complaining.

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My primary damage is 1111-1313 and that's because I wear PvP gear. My gear is better than rakata gear. If you honestly think columi is better, you're clearly unsuccessful at fp's and maybe PvP.

 

Funniest thing happened to me, I didn't want to put my PvE gear on for lost island, and there was a rakata assassin throwing a tizi because I didn't want to wear my PvE gear. So I suggested we get in mox for every boss fight and he told me he'd beat me every time. The first fight I did 278k and he was far below. He was blaming the circle choosing/placement on his dps. The second fight I did 15k more and he blamed procs for me winning. The last boss o did 345k and he did 275k. He quit the group and put us on ignore. After telling me luck was on my side. Gear is important I understand, but look at the player before you complain about him wearing WH gear.

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For group finder pve I could care less as long as people know what they are doing or capable of saying they don't and then listening to instructions. Anything you can queue for in groupfinder is easy enough to do in any gear with some exceptions to LI and KP depending on the other people in the group's gear makeup and even those don't matter if everyone knows what they are doing.

 

But if having a tank in WH gear queue up for a FP makes my wait time shorter for a pop I'm all for it. Having to heal a little more or cc a little more is worth the swap of not having to wait for tanks to queue up.

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