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The Ultimate Answer to Complains about gunships ?


Davionix

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Remember how before evasion was nerfed and bombers were introduced type 2 scouts and gunships seemed unstoppable.

 

With the introduction of bombers and changes to evasion problem with scouts was solved so I would like to speculate that when infiltrator class stealth ships are introduced they will be good against gunships in the way bombers are effective against scouts.

 

So maybe, just maybe, people should just wait until all ship types are out before making over 9000 threads about this & that ship being op and the neeed to remove it from game.

 

Any ideas ? Let the raging about OPships begin :rolleyes:

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When a friend you know outside of the game says the pilot a gunship, punch them in the face.

 

Eventually they will learn not to fly one.

 

Or you'll kill them with blunt force trauma.

 

Either way, one less gunship.

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Remove all the ships! Every single one is OP, the entire game isn't fair!!! Seriously, they're developing this still. Give it time. Also, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, hoping to achieve different results. This is not the case. LEARN TO ADAPT PEOPLE! (Also, learn to not fight the GS with a DO... You're just stupid for dying that way if I 1 shot burst you)
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Remove all the ships! Every single one is OP, the entire game isn't fair!!! Seriously, they're developing this still. Give it time. Also, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, hoping to achieve different results. This is not the case. LEARN TO ADAPT PEOPLE! (Also, learn to not fight the GS with a DO... You're just stupid for dying that way if I 1 shot burst you)

 

Protorps on a bomber. Have the hull to take the hits and the damage output to make them pay for every shot.

 

You can pretty much turn the Razorwire into what a gunship should be. Slow, armored, and armed to the teeth.

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That leaves us with December through July of gunships being stupidly overpowered, and doesn't actually address any of the core concerns with the class.

 

I'm willing to confidently state that the Pilot > Ship. If I can take someone down in my undergeared scout, chances are my slightly-upgraded quell and my master GS will kill you just the same. GS's aren't OP - the players who face them don't know how to play

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I'm willing to confidently state that the Pilot > Ship. If I can take someone down in my undergeared scout, chances are my slightly-upgraded quell and my master GS will kill you just the same. GS's aren't OP - the players who face them don't know how to play

 

It is not about a single GS being OP. Any single ship is killable by any other, it is the typical number of overlapping GS that are messing with the balance of the game. It is very easy to say LTP and everything will be OK but it just does not work that way. When I am sitting in front of the hanger waiting for a match I have to wonder how many players have simply gone back to the ground PVE game due to frustration. I totally blame the DEV's for poor training opportunities and not trying to at least do some form of matchmaking for new players. These are computer systems that can have defaults and even the simple act of putting players with less than 25 games (pick a number) in with other low game count players so they can get a sense of what it is like without getting stomped should be in place. There are levels in PVE aren't there. It is only good business sense (no comments about that allowed).

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I'm willing to confidently state that the Pilot > Ship. If I can take someone down in my undergeared scout, chances are my slightly-upgraded quell and my master GS will kill you just the same. GS's aren't OP - the players who face them don't know how to play

 

Ok, now apply that to actual real world situations, where enemy ships are piloted by people who aren't always terrible.

 

It's objectively true that I, a flashfire ace, have lost most of my lives to ace gunships (as compared to ace and non-ace pilots of other ships).

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Sammy you've said yourself that you can't put up the numbers in other ships that you can in a gunship. That's an obvious indication of the class being unbalanced. Ion rail needs to be tuned down and the ability for gunships to run away from scouts almost indefinitely needs to be removed. Currently gunships don't have any pronounced weaknesses and that's not right. Every ship should have a weakness. Where is the gunship's?
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Sammy you've said yourself that you can't put up the numbers in other ships that you can in a gunship. That's an obvious indication of the class being unbalanced.

 

...it is? Citation needed. Damage meters don't win games.

 

Every ship should have a weakness. Where is the gunship's?

 

Second weakest ship in the game after scout, second worst at maneuvering AND speed after bomber, inability to use dogfighting missiles, only one valid build, railgun types don't vary as much as the other components do (there's no 20k railgun, and no railgun with a huge site that is almost impossible to miss with), weakest class based defensives of any ship (5% DR versus 5% DR and 5% dodge on a strike, 10% dodge on a scout, and 10% DR on a bomber), inability to build any but one build mobility wise (you take barrel roll or you are wrong) or defensively (distortion on Type 1, directional on Type 2, other shields and engine components are entirely without merit).

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...it is? Citation needed. Damage meters don't win games.

 

They do in TDM, though. And in Domination, keeping enemies dead and thus off the point is a very important part of strategy.

 

It's certainly not the whole picture, but being better at killing the other guys is -- like in most PvP games -- the most efficient way to increase your win rate.

 

second worst at maneuvering AND speed after bomber,

 

This is the big one. Gunships can't turnings. Skilled use of barrel roll and sniper scope can help compensate, but they'll never be as good at turning as a scout.

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Protorps on a bomber. Have the hull to take the hits and the damage output to make them pay for every shot.

 

You can pretty much turn the Razorwire into what a gunship should be. Slow, armored, and armed to the teeth.

 

You're making a terrible mistake if you give up Seismic Mines for proton torpedoes.

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Sammy you've said yourself that you can't put up the numbers in other ships that you can in a gunship. That's an obvious indication of the class being unbalanced.

 

Or, it's an indication that aforementioned class better suits her playstyle.

 

Ion rail needs to be tuned down and the ability for gunships to run away from scouts almost indefinitely needs to be removed. Currently gunships don't have any pronounced weaknesses and that's not right. Every ship should have a weakness. Where is the gunship's?

 

It's called tunnel vision, and/or extremely persistent scouts.

 

Why in the name of merciful St. Francis would I want to play a class that, under your fixes, would be a free kill to Scouts? Where is the fun in playing something that dies when somebody just looks at me?

 

And before you start with, 'well, that's what Gunships do!'. I've had really determined Scouts come right at my face when I'm zoomed into my Railgun scope, dodge every shot, close the distance, and eat me with some fava beans and a nice Chianti. I die to good Scout pilots more than anything else. I fear good Scout pilots, that's why I try to keep them where I know my strengths are, at ten to fifteen kilometers. Because once they get in past ten kilometers, my palms start to sweat and I start getting that sneaky sensation that I am about to be space dust again.

 

But, let's say I manage to dodge that Scout's first pass on me, Barrel Roll out, start greening up my shields for another pass and get my finger on the button for Feedback Shield. He comes around, strafes me, eats the damage, I can't turn quick enough to draw a bead on him, and he zips back out in preparation for another pass. Now Barrel Roll's off cooldown, hit it, zip out, try to come around for a clear shot...except he's STILL on me. Shields are hurting, Feedback's on cooldown, I'm not regenerating fast enough, boom, I'm dead.

 

If it's intelligent gameplay to keep Scouts at a distance where the Gunship has its strengths, then it is just as intelligent to keep Gunships at a distance where the Scout has its strengths. If you can't see that Gunship, you need to be looking for it. If you're not looking for it, I'll guarantee it's looking for you.

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While you are fully correct that the "gunships shouldn't be allowed to run from scouts" comments is totally nonsense (gunships either have to be able to run from scouts or solo them in melee, after all), I will say that you mention using Feedback Shield, and this causes me some consternation. Feedback Shield is hardly ever relevant, and on the off chance a yellow hull scout has no shields and is about to hit you, a good one will actually have made a note of whether you have feedback shield or not.

 

 

Taking FS denies you a missile break and most of your defenses- you miss out on a huge amount of passive evasion, and an even larger brick of active evasion. If we are talking about the type 2 gunship, then your choice should be the directional shield.

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And before you start with, 'well, that's what Gunships do!'. I've had really determined Scouts come right at my face when I'm zoomed into my Railgun scope, dodge every shot, close the distance, and eat me with some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

 

Actually I'm pretty sure you were the bacon on my BLT.

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While you are fully correct that the "gunships shouldn't be allowed to run from scouts" comments is totally nonsense (gunships either have to be able to run from scouts or solo them in melee, after all)...

 

Actually what I said was "gunships shouldn't be able to run from scouts INDEFINITELY". That may be a slight exaggeration but it's not far from the truth. With the current prototypical quell build you can boost and barrel roll all day long if you choose to.

 

While I am basically a free kill to a gunship when I'm at range the opposite is far from true. Even when scouts and strikes close distance gunships have more than enough armor, shielding, and weaponry to be a threat and are FAR from a free kill. To say otherwise is a bit asinine imo. I'm not saying I want a free kill on gunships up close. Like i said i believe they can be quite formidable up close. What I do want is for gunships to have a little less mobility and be forced to dogfight a little more.

 

I believe the barrel roll nerf is going to give me what I'm asking for so i probably shouldn't have posted but I sometimes can't help commenting when I see the gunship brigade start defending themselves when I think it's pretty objectively provable that gunships are overall the most dominant class.

 

I can kill gunships, I do it all the time. I don't think they are OP. I think all things considered all the classes are pretty well balanced and only minor adjustments are needed. My two biggest requests right now would be to make changes to BLC, first and foremost, followed closely by changes to ion rail's ability to stunlock.

 

My deal with gunships in this thread in particular is I believe you guys are trying to claim to be balanced when from where I'm sitting the scales clearly tip in your favor even if not by much.

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I don't actually see many people saying "gunships need no nerfs". I think the barrel roll nerf will definitely reduce gunship mobility, while it will reduce the ability of all classes to chase worthlessly across the map.

 

Endless running is fine. A scout can run from anyone forever, so can a strike. The gunship does it, but can't do much else. Only the bomber cannot flee well, and he has the highest defenses plus specials that allow him to be effective without dogfighting.

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You're making a terrible mistake if you give up Seismic Mines for proton torpedoes.

 

Or OR I'm trading short range damage for long range.

 

-gasp- The humanity!

 

But really, there are times where you just have to reach out and touch someone.

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It's called tunnel vision, and/or extremely persistent scouts.

 

You know Rhint, that neither of these are ship weaknesses...

 

Face facts, you do play the gunship a lot... and when you need to play to your fullest (vs a skilled team), you ALWAYS pick the gunship. That says a lot when an experienced pilot picks the same ship to "fall back to" when faced with tough opponents. Most "fall back" ships are T1 gunships, or T2 scouts. Which leads to the logical conclusion that they are the strongest.

 

Note I said most... don't use Itkovian, Shayd, Courtney, etc as your counter argument for "the other ships are fine".

 

Things are mostly balanced... but there are still issues.

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Face facts, you do play the gunship a lot... and when you need to play to your fullest (vs a skilled team), you ALWAYS pick the gunship. That says a lot when an experienced pilot picks the same ship to "fall back to" when faced with tough opponents. Most "fall back" ships are T1 gunships, or T2 scouts. Which leads to the logical conclusion that they are the strongest.

 

No, it leads to the logical conclusion that those players are most comfortable with those ships. The fact that Itkovian, Shayd, Sevaerian, etc don't fall back to those specific ships is a direct counterpoint to your argument, and thus absolutely deserves to be brought up.

 

Are T1 gunships and T2 scouts more powerful than most other ships? Yes. Can we conclude that they're more powerful because a lot of people favor them? No. They're more powerful because they're more powerful, not because they're more popular.

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If you guys are talking balance, then you need to bring flash fires into the conversation too. They're not exactly balanced either.

 

What about them do you find to still be unbalanced about them? Defense is adjusted well, and while I think they can dodge missiles a little too easily, that's partially a function of missile breaks, which are being adjusted. They're considerably more fragile than strikes if they take hits: I notice the difference when I fly mine.

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What about them do you find to still be unbalanced about them? Defense is adjusted well, and while I think they can dodge missiles a little too easily, that's partially a function of missile breaks, which are being adjusted. They're considerably more fragile than strikes if they take hits: I notice the difference when I fly mine.

 

Their outrageous damage potential thanks to BLC and overcharge outstrips every other short-to-medium range craft and what they lack in survivability only matters against bombers. For everything else, pilots of equal skill will find it easier to out-fly an opponent in a battle scout, thus battle scouts reign supreme and completely uncontested in one of the most important scenarios in GSF - dogfighting.

 

They're broken as hell. Minelayers (not drone carriers) counter them really hard, however, which combined with gunships (which are also broken) keep battle scouts from being the #1 uncontested ship for every situation like they were in 2.5.

 

They still need to be adjusted down.

 

Or OR I'm trading short range damage for long range.

 

-gasp- The humanity!

 

But really, there are times where you just have to reach out and touch someone.

 

That's what teammates are for. The minelayer's duty is to make things hell for battle scouts, and seismic mines are the best tool to carry out that duty.

Edited by FridgeLM
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