Since my wife and I were getting beat up pretty hard in PvP vs the premade groups I thought I would start recording the data and see where we stood. We play on the Jedi Covannat server as imps. and here is the data I recorded.

 

400 fights 17 wins = 1 out of every 23.5 battles was a win (which seems to be about the avg I see from people posting there win/lose ratio from pugs.)

 

Out of those 383 loses 337 were one sided (by one sided I mean huttball being 0 - 5, or the capture points having one side not even half way down before the end of the game.) Which means that approximately 87% of the losing games between my wife and I were so lop sided that there was pretty much no chance of winning.

 

It's like this in every game though that I have every played. The casual gamer wants to enjoy his game at his pace and complains about being facerolled all the time. While the hardcore guy wants to say everything is fine because he is steamrolling over the casual guy. I Agree 100% with all the posts that say there should be an option to Either go against groups or go against a bunch of random people, cause lets face it a premade group has the classes they need and they work well together while the pug gets whatever the computer randomizes which often leads to no healers, or no "uber" tank or ETC. I mean be honest if your fighting a premade group with 2 healers and your "random" group has no healers but the 3 mercs (if you can call them that) it's obvious who will win.

 

I don't think there should be a penalty for anyone for playing as a group just like I don't think there should be anything to force people to make groups like has been suggestedmany times. I do believe though they need to allow people to choose if they want to be in a complete random for both teams or against a premade team. I know this option would piss all the premade groups off because that would mean no more farming the casual guys for hours for comms but would force them to either play people on the same terms or play solo and shoot for the best like everyone else.

So after all the losing you still want to blame others for your lack of willingness to find a group and improve your chances of winning? But your willing to come here as waste time typing or waste energy keeping data (which I call fowl on)

Where is our society going? Why do people feel entitled to do nothing and blame people who do something for all their problems? Should we play with no scores so no one "feels" bad if they lose?

People need to grow a pair or understand that you get out what you put in.

Do a premade of 4 for pre 50 pvp... organized 4 of competent people can win 99.99% of matches against headless chickens on low bracket.

on 50 bracket 4 people with brains are improtant, but not a winning curve (still less spots for headless chickens and muppets so I guess they are +25% to chance of winning).

Is it fault of good players playing together?

or headless chickens not being able to play together..

Who we should promote?

Since my wife and I were getting beat up pretty hard in PvP vs the premade groups I thought I would start recording the data and see where we stood. We play on the Jedi Covannat server as imps. and here is the data I recorded.

 

400 fights 17 wins = 1 out of every 23.5 battles was a win (which seems to be about the avg I see from people posting there win/lose ratio from pugs.)

 

Out of those 383 loses 337 were one sided (by one sided I mean huttball being 0 - 5, or the capture points having one side not even half way down before the end of the game.) Which means that approximately 87% of the losing games between my wife and I were so lop sided that there was pretty much no chance of winning.

 

It's like this in every game though that I have every played. The casual gamer wants to enjoy his game at his pace and complains about being facerolled all the time. While the hardcore guy wants to say everything is fine because he is steamrolling over the casual guy. I Agree 100% with all the posts that say there should be an option to Either go against groups or go against a bunch of random people, cause lets face it a premade group has the classes they need and they work well together while the pug gets whatever the computer randomizes which often leads to no healers, or no "uber" tank or ETC. I mean be honest if your fighting a premade group with 2 healers and your "random" group has no healers but the 3 mercs (if you can call them that) it's obvious who will win.

 

I don't think there should be a penalty for anyone for playing as a group just like I don't think there should be anything to force people to make groups like has been suggestedmany times. I do believe though they need to allow people to choose if they want to be in a complete random for both teams or against a premade team. I know this option would piss all the premade groups off because that would mean no more farming the casual guys for hours for comms but would force them to either play people on the same terms or play solo and shoot for the best like everyone else.

A guy that plays a premade complaining he loses to premades? did I read this right?

Do you undertand that if premades we re banned u could never play with a family member/friend/guildie and just random all day?

After 400 matches and only 17 wins, it`s pretty clear u`re gimping the teams for not improving, hey ofc once in while you find urself in a group with 0 healers and/or lots of "casual" pvp ers but 400 games with only 17 wins is shocking.

Also for everybody complaining about gear gap and premades:

1) Premades... the guys complaining on premades are ppl that

-only solo ed pve, reach 50(valor 1) got bored of no more content and raids are rare to set up says hey lets try pvp;

-they don`t do heroics, flashpoints, or group in general;

-they don`t join guilds or they do but ignore the guild chat, never say sure I could help out;

- they don`t make friends, then join pvp and cry its not fair; (pvp is team play based understand this)

-they don`t take their team in consideration and don`t act as to each situation...example(huttball pre 50) i m up the the ramp at the enemy spawn zone, our ball carrier(juggenaut full hp) is in the pit with 4 enemies on him, I(also juggenaut 25%hp) yell pass just killed the only enemy around me, the guy blows his cooldowns, medpack and runs in circle in the pit waiting for an enemy to apear next to me so he can leap up, his cooldowns end and the 4 enemies burn him down and thus losing the ball. I ask him why didn`t u pass, HIM: u we re low HP........ so what i was clear, he had 4 enemies on him and was a sure kill, passing to me would give the team a chance to scor I had better chances in that case but no he had to be one of those I`m playing solo guy.

2)gear gap....u think the guys with WH BiS didn`t work for it? that it just droped from the sky or found it the mail ,they got it free and u feel its not fair? its like some1 saying my neighbour earns money and I don`t yeals IT`S NOT FAIR! but that guy works for hours at his job for that money while u sit at home doing nothing what`s the crying really about?

PUGs are not "headless chicken who lacks the ability to cooperate" or noobs in recruit gear. Most of us PUGs are most social persons with excellent PVP gear. We just lack the time or intrest in forming groups consisting right number of healers, tanks etc. Since this is just whats it all about.

Groups with the right support of healers. Its not that much down to top notch gear, its all about having (good?) healers or not. You can overcome good/bad gear, but you cant overcome the effect of healers. If you got healers your God mode. If you got protected healers, your in UberGod mode.

Thats the root of the problems. Healers or no healers.

PUGs´just want to play casual and dont have the time to form group consisting of healers, thats why we like playing casual. Just log in and BAM! go pvp. But you cant do that in swtor. You get steamrolled by premades.

PUGs are not "headless chicken who lacks the ability to cooperate" or noobs in recruit gear. Most of us PUGs are most social persons with excellent PVP gear. We just lack the time or intrest in forming groups consisting right number of healers, tanks etc. Since this is just whats it all about.

 

Groups with the right support of healers. Its not that much down to top notch gear, its all about having (good?) healers or not. You can overcome good/bad gear, but you cant overcome the effect of healers. If you got healers your God mode. If you got protected healers, your in UberGod mode.

 

Thats the root of the problems. Healers or no healers.

 

PUGs´just want to play casual and dont have the time to form group consisting of healers, thats why we like playing casual. Just log in and BAM! go pvp. But you cant do that in swtor. You get steamrolled by premades.

I'm sorry, it's just my opinion. They are. When I play with my 3 guildies I'm sure that guy at other door/turret will call incs and not ran away 'not to die' or 'follow that sniper who is to afraid to come any closer but turnes out to be healer who draw out peeps so his group mate can ninja cap'. Not saying all, but you never know who is who. I had many team awesome pvp with pug only stomping premades, but how often you see that?

Not true either, with dps who minds how they fight you don't need healers. It's actually faster to win with no healing if played right.

Root of problem is player in front of monitor.

I'm all about casual PVP, had literally ONE ranked WZ since we don't have team for that. When we have winning spree it's not becose we'r great, we'r not. Every one have his 'facepalm' moment here and there... We'r winning becose of team play, always leaving atleast one of our group to guard (so incs will be called and defender will stay at turret). How many times you've seen turret/doors lost with no incs or no defenders on it? You are not being stomped. You are being outplayed by comptenet player on other side, or incompetent player on yours.

edit:I dont mean you personally, i ment PUGs general statistic match I've seen, not all of them.

PUGs are not "headless chicken who lacks the ability to cooperate" or noobs in recruit gear. Most of us PUGs are most social persons with excellent PVP gear. We just lack the time or intrest in forming groups consisting right number of healers, tanks etc. Since this is just whats it all about.

 

Groups with the right support of healers. Its not that much down to top notch gear, its all about having (good?) healers or not. You can overcome good/bad gear, but you cant overcome the effect of healers. If you got healers your God mode. If you got protected healers, your in UberGod mode.

 

Thats the root of the problems. Healers or no healers.

 

PUGs´just want to play casual and dont have the time to form group consisting of healers, thats why we like playing casual. Just log in and BAM! go pvp. But you cant do that in swtor. You get steamrolled by premades.

I play with friends and my log in is the same as yours.

pugs´just want to win with no effort and are too lazy to form group consisting of healers, thats why we would like to win with little to no effort just log in and bam! free win. But you cant do that in swtor. You gotta think and not be a anti social freak.

ok. calling the guy a lazy, antisocial freak. nice. you're everything that's wrong with pvp. it's you and your demeaning attitude. grow up.

for the record, pvp isn't exclusively grouping up. it's playing against other people who don't think like computers according to a set script. wanting that and playing pvp for that has nothing to do with forming group with people to smash solo queuers.

i have no problem with your grping. but your reply was pure troll. grats.

ok. calling the guy a lazy, antisocial freak. nice. you're everything that's wrong with pvp. it's you and your demeaning attitude. grow up.

 

for the record, pvp isn't exclusively grouping up. it's playing against other people who don't think like computers according to a set script. wanting that and playing pvp for that has nothing to do with forming group with people to smash solo queuers.

 

i have no problem with your grping. but your reply was pure troll. grats.

Keep thinking what u like, u got ur opinion I got mine but what I posted is for all those qq threads, too much qq I hate ppl demanding to make content more and more easy running behind. The word casual which is just an excuse, if there is no challenge what's the point.

Also about the anti social part I actually met this type of ppl in swtor, they said that they never group because their too shy and are afraid its ok it's their choice but don t get to lvl 50 valor rank 1 and complain pvp is not fair, we all have access to the same tools.

fixed

Guess you ran out of real logical argumentation there?

Ok, you'r still welcome when you got real input in the debate.

Guess you ran out of real logical argumentation there?

 

Ok, you'r still welcome when you got real input in the debate.

..........dude....scroll up and see my previous post on this page...and I got called a troll for saying ppl are lazy aham

make content more and more easy running behind

Disabling grouping in NWZ and pushing it into ranked makes it harder for people not easier.

And you do realize that you QQ about QQ?

Disabling grouping in NWZ and pushing it into ranked makes it harder for people not easier.

And you do realize that you QQ about QQ?

You just won a cookie and no they will never disable grouping in nwz because BW wanted friends to play with friends and not be constrained by lvl gap thus the lvl 10-49 braket was born, not to mention at launch lvl 50s didn't have a separate bracket

I agree that BW prolly wont disable grouping, they just add an option to run solo vs solo PVP.

Theres a huge flood of critique against the current system, and BW needs to adress the problem with ppl not enjoying PVP as it is.

Premade runners get thier part of fun and soloers get thier part of fun, problem solved.

I agree that BW prolly wont disable grouping, they just add an option to run solo vs solo PVP.

 

Theres a huge flood of critique against the current system, and BW needs to adress the problem with ppl not enjoying PVP as it is.

 

Premade runners get thier part of fun and soloers get thier part of fun, problem solved.

Listen mate pls understand that wz is team based play now if u would really want to 1v1 then you should be asking for some sort of arena but that would encourage players to play just dps so hmm I dunno, they encourage grouping right now

Listen mate pls understand that wz is team based play now if u would really want to 1v1 then you should be asking for some sort of arena but that would encourage players to play just dps so hmm I dunno, they encourage grouping right now

Dont know if you ever been at a WZ, ive never experianced that it is 1 vs 1 in the WZ.

They are group activities, but you should be able to Q U E U E as solo or group in options.

Just tell me, why are you so worried and concerned about parting from us solo players? is it that your afriad of playing against other premade teams, prehaps? Your afriad of losing your easy kills?

Answer the question, why do you even care?

Are you afraid of losing your easy kills? Is that the reason you dabate against it?

They are group activities, but you should be able to Q U E U E as solo or group in options.

Just tell me, why are you so worried and concerned about parting from us solo players? is it that your afriad of playing against other premade teams, prehaps? Your afriad of losing your easy kills?

again i tell you->

solo players are needed to fill up a group, a 2 man group is also a premade does that mean that the system should group these 2 players with 2-3 more premades to reach 8 players and then chose the same for an opponent team?

in normal wz a premade is a max of 4 ppl! the chances of the system grouping 2x 4man teams is very slim in fact i never ran into this situation

its obvious your a premade runner, hdiing in a preamde team , fully backed by healers 24/7. Since you dont seem to seek any challange ingame you want easy runs, thats why you argue agaisnt solo players getting thier fun. All other player should bend over and let You have Your fun at the cost of thier own fun, Seem you dont want to let anyone have thier fun, if it is a threat against Your fun.

I say live and let live. Let us solo player go our way and have our way of fun, and you go your way. Go play with the other premade runners and you can take turns in hiding in preamde teams, pretending to be tough.

its obvious your a premade runner, hdiing in a preamde team , fully backed by healers 24/7. Since you dont seem to seek any challange ingame you want easy runs, thats why you argue agaisnt solo players getting thier fun. All other player should bend over and let You have Your fun at the cost of thier own fun, Seem you dont want to let anyone have thier fun, if it is a threat against Your fun.

 

I say live and let live. Let us solo player go our way and have our way of fun, and you go your way. Go play with the other premade runners and you can take turns in hiding in preamde teams, pretending to be tough.

This is the last time i`m telling you the same thing over and over in normal wz....... a premade = 2 players minimum - 4 maximum the other 4-6 players are either other small premades or all are solo queuers like you to fill up the group! that s it, no rocket science.

And I don`t have a team i mostly solo queue my self since i`m lvling all my alts via pvp or I 2-man(which is a premade) with a friend

its obvious your a premade runner, hdiing in a preamde team , fully backed by healers 24/7. Since you dont seem to seek any challange ingame you want easy runs, thats why you argue agaisnt solo players getting thier fun. All other player should bend over and let You have Your fun at the cost of thier own fun, Seem you dont want to let anyone have thier fun, if it is a threat against Your fun.

 

I say live and let live. Let us solo player go our way and have our way of fun, and you go your way. Go play with the other premade runners and you can take turns in hiding in preamde teams, pretending to be tough.

I run mostly premade, so now people not to lazy to group up or people who actually have friends are hiding from challenge? You think we leave que if we run into a premade or something?

It blows my mind the rationale people will come with to justify their own short comings.

My first toon I played nothing but pug groups and ran into premades all the time and NOT ONCE did it cross my mind that it was not fair that they rolled us because they played together. I know we lost the game because half of the puggers played selfish death match 1vs1 and did not communicate and over time I realized that if I wanted to have fun I would need to not play with these puggers and would need to start a group of people that wanted a better chance to win.

Regular warzones are for everyone, just like if you que for a FP instead of making a group your chances of success will drop. You choose to solo que and you should take your own responsibility for were that leads you.

Other thought: What MMO has a single only player que that's worth playing? Does this exists?

First, lemme state -my- position again before making any comment, in the hopes we can avoid the usual false assumptions and petty insults.

50's pvp needs two things:

1. Cross server queueing for a great population/pool.

2. Better matchmaking that tries to match players according to group size. The typical match should be a 3-4 man premade, and then 4-5 pugs.

Yes I play in a group. I also have a 40hrs a week job, 3 hours commute, and several prior engagements/commitments, including a decent amount of time spent with my SO in Tera.

)-----------------------------------------------------------------(

Now, I wanted to comment on an argument I keep seeing, which is "PuG's just want their fun too."

Fun is a subjective term. Someone -could- find smashing their head into a brick wall fun. Someone could find anything besides eating chocolate all day "no fun."

The main reason I see these PuG's claiming PvP is "no fun" is because they are being beaten by a premade. In other words, they are -Losing.-

While we already discussed that fun is subjective, let's be real for a moment. It's very simple... people claim they are not having fun because they are losing. You can throw the usual "No, it just not fun because we don't have a chance!" but in the most basic terms, you are not having fun because you are -Losing.-

I sympathize, because I know that I do not find losing fun. A loss can be fun, but losing in general is not. It's alright to be honest and simply say: "It is no fun PuG'ing because we lose."

Once people stop trying to hide behind the facade of "just trying to have fun" and admit they want to win, then the real work can begin. How can BW fairly create a situation where a PuG's can win more often? Should they even attempt to create such a situation to appease them? Where is the line between a helping hand, and a welfare system? (Yes, this applies to real life too!)

You have to remember the current system (and a proposed split queue system) rewards players for competing. A winning team receives a higher reward (more comms) than losing team because the winners presumably put more effort in.

Are you, as PuG's willing to accept a smaller reward if the system is chained to -lower- the effort you must put in to win?

If the answer is no, then you need to raise your level of effort to win or suffer.

If the answer is yes, then that is a discussion for another time.

Are you, as PuG's willing to accept a smaller reward if the system is chained to -lower- the effort you must put in to win?

 

If the answer is no, then you need to raise your level of effort to win or suffer.

 

If the answer is yes, then that is a discussion for another time.

How about remove the queue solo button instead? As someone that premades that shouldn't affect you and the PUGs you perceive as bad would stay the hell away from your fun. Don't you agree that removing the queue solo button would enable a whole new competitive PvP in swtor? No worry about losing rank. Why not only allow 4-man and 8-man queue options to minimize queue times and maximize the competitive PvP fun? The solo queuers can go **** themselves or group up. What is your honest opinion on that?