Concerning Sith Jedi padawans:

 

With DS Jaesa (LS would be no go) I would have her mention it to you casually that she thinking about sleeping with another woman and then you can go from that. It easily fits in my opinion as DS Jaesa is all about experiencing all the emotions. Nothing strange there I think.

 

Ashara is more tricky. I am not sure how fitting to Star Wars lore is, but this is what I have thought on the subject.

I would give her backround of Jedi teachings (as whole or simply specific to the masters she had) such thing to be totally unthinkable opposed to heavily regulated (as you cant have child from such relations). Due to that she tries to fight the emotions she has towards the female SI, would explain pathetic gift gains reasonably well. I would also put the romance threshold very high, even 10k...but I have feeling majority of players would find it inexcusably short romance.

they could go the route of Ashara sticking to her guns and just hating females period (based off her hard to please attitude as it is) and just keep her unromancable by female SI.

But if they went the route you suggested, nothing wrong with a short romance. It would be perfectly excusable. Not all these relationships are created equal.

Aaand... snip. *coughs*

Gaaww, my Captain just had a conversation with Corso and Corso called him the best thing that ever happened to him, family, as much or more than his own family who was killed by the seperatists.

And then he offered to take care of my Captain's children, as their "uncle".....

Enough, ENOUGH with the innuendo, please...

(<< wants more, of course...)

Aaand... snip. *coughs*

 

Gaaww, my Captain just had a conversation with Corso and Corso called him the best thing that ever happened to him, family, as much or more than his own family who was killed by the seperatists.

 

And then he offered to take care of my Captain's children, as their "uncle".....

 

Enough, ENOUGH with the innuendo, please...

 

(<< wants more, of course...)

Man, Corso not-around-ladies sounds a lot less creepy and over-bearing than Corso around-ladies. I'd reroll my Smuggler, but man-Smug has a very underwhelming voice.

Also, is it Spring yet? D:

Oh! I just had an idea What if one of your available [Flirt]s (and let's assume that Bioware actually gives a piece of cheesecake and has made these romance storylines rather than the single [Flirt]s they've already said they are) is a member of the militia that's out there and they're wearing one of those AWESOME berets and then at the end of the romance and you talk about seeing each other again or something you get their beret as a reminder of them

And it's a moddable beret, so unlike the companion gifts you can actually use it and show it off. OR Bioware adds in little ship customisations, so you can have a hat stand in your bedroom and you can put the beret there.

Oh! I just had an idea What if one of your available [Flirt]s (and let's assume that Bioware actually gives a piece of cheesecake and has made these romance storylines rather than the single [Flirt]s they've already said they are) is a member of the militia that's out there and they're wearing one of those AWESOME berets and then at the end of the romance and you talk about seeing each other again or something you get their beret as a reminder of them

 

And it's a moddable beret, so unlike the companion gifts you can actually use it and show it off. OR Bioware adds in little ship customisations, so you can have a hat stand in your bedroom and you can put the beret there.

OR you could leave it lying on the chair, and the ship's cat could sleep on it !

Man, Corso not-around-ladies sounds a lot less creepy and over-bearing than Corso around-ladies. I'd reroll my Smuggler, but man-Smug has a very underwhelming voice.

Also, is it Spring yet? D:

Oh! I just had an idea What if one of your available [Flirt]s (and let's assume that Bioware actually gives a piece of cheesecake and has made these romance storylines rather than the single [Flirt]s they've already said they are) is a member of the militia that's out there and they're wearing one of those AWESOME berets and then at the end of the romance and you talk about seeing each other again or something you get their beret as a reminder of them

And it's a moddable beret, so unlike the companion gifts you can actually use it and show it off. OR Bioware adds in little ship customisations, so you can have a hat stand in your bedroom and you can put the beret there.

I really love this suggestion. Reminds me of the red scarf and belt pouch that Fenris got to wear after he had entered the romance with my Hawke.

That was the most beautiful thing ever.

Both things belonged to Hawke, were shown to be in his possession before, but after the romance was initated, Fenris suddenly wore that scarf around his wrist and the belt pouch was attached to bis belt.

There was no explanation given, which I found even sweeter, since it left how he obtained those things up to your imagination. He may have asked for them, Hawke may have given them to him as a gift, he may have smuggled them out of the bedroom, we don't know. What we know is it was meant as a sweet and intimate way of indicating they were in a romance together.

Don't you want to add that idea to the Romance suggestion thread in my sig?

OR you could leave it lying on the chair, and the ship's cat could sleep on it !

Concerning Sith Jedi padawans:

 

With DS Jaesa (LS would be no go) I would have her mention it to you casually that she thinking about sleeping with another woman and then you can go from that. It easily fits in my opinion as DS Jaesa is all about experiencing all the emotions. Nothing strange there I think.

 

Ashara is more tricky. I am not sure how fitting to Star Wars lore is, but this is what I have thought on the subject.

I would give her backround of Jedi teachings (as whole or simply specific to the masters she had) such thing to be totally unthinkable opposed to heavily regulated (as you cant have child from such relations). Due to that she tries to fight the emotions she has towards the female SI, would explain pathetic gift gains reasonably well. I would also put the romance threshold very high, even 10k...but I have feeling majority of players would find it inexcusably short romance.

I wanted my female SI to hook up with Ashara so badly it's not even funny. I'd divorce Andronikos for her.

That said, I think it's possible to have a same gender romance with her halfway though her storyline.

I can dream. If they make it possible to date her as a female I would reroll in a heartbeat.

I wanted my female SI to hook up with Ashara so badly it's not even funny. I'd divorce Andronikos for her.

 

That said, I think it's possible to have a same gender romance with her halfway though her storyline.

When she gets rejected by the Jedi on Alderaan I can clearly see the SI getting a chance to comfort her and be a little nicer than normal to get a flirt. Even later when she goes out and successfully gets some jedi to join her cause I can see small flirts that could make things work for a femSI.

 

 

I can dream. If they make it possible to date her as a female I would reroll in a heartbeat.

I would love the chance to romance Ashara also. I don't know what it is about her, but she's just awesome. It'd be nice if you could get her on the team even earlier, but better late than never...just like adding her as an LI .

I know it's probably not fully on topic but I wanted to let you guys know that I contacted staff for a title change of the thread in my signature (the one from the Suggestion Box), so that we could gather some more general ideas for implementation of romance content in SWTOR.

Former title: Suggestion for future romance content in SWTOR >> Separate it from class content

Now: Suggestion for future romance content in SWTOR

Feel free to add any of your suggestions there, SGR and OGR. I figured we have quite a few SGR suggestions to offer, but OGR is great too.

I'd hope if we keep that thread alive, that would be the best way to pitch our ideas and maybe have them implemented, if they know what it is we'd like to see.

I wanted my female SI to hook up with Ashara so badly it's not even funny. I'd divorce Andronikos for her.

While I'm pretty much set on doing the Adronikos romance with my Dark Side Sorcerer, I'd love to romance Ashara with my Light Side Assassin.

Would romances with individuals who fall outside of the binary gender system* come under the umbrella of this thread's discussion purposes? As I'd like to approach the idea of having companions and/or NPC romance options who do not fall into the stereotypical male/female sexes and genders. This can apply to those who fall anywhere within the gender spectrum or those who find themselves outside of it and would also be applicable to those who are members of existing species, and hopefully not only to those who are magically created to somehow fit the idea that gender binaries** are ingrained into genetic code, or something.

Also, non-organics.

I only ask because there is no where else on these forums where romances can be discussed so freely and in-depth, whilst still being safe from being going "oh em gee pixels trolololol", but it is also specifically about same-sex romances. This topic is so maligned by the majority on the boards that anything that's even remotely "weirder" than it will become mired down in trolls and "why did this need another thread by Palpatine BALANCE PVP", that the creation of a thread devoted to the discussion would be deemed as inciting a flame war. And with this being a science-fiction game, wherein future possibilities not only of technology but also society are explored, I think it would be remiss to not at least be able to approach the idea.

That and I don't want to be accused of spam but just jumping head first into the topic.

*though still the staple of most people's ideas of gender and sex, I think it's safe to say that this will slowly but surely go the way of the dodo

**that is, extra-humanoid species who have multiple sexes and/or genders, so that the standard humanoid species are without this expression

I would love the chance to romance Ashara also. I don't know what it is about her, but she's just awesome.

I agree, but it seems most don't like her.

Tatile, I wouldn't mind talking about it at all but maybe we should ask mods if it's considered off-topic? Would spare us some pain in case posts get deleted.

Yeah, but none of them talk to me anymore, so I made an open letter. Frankly I'm surprised it's still there.

Yeah, but none of them talk to me anymore, so I made an open letter. Frankly I'm surprised it's still there.

I guess if it's at least related to SGR, it should be in order.

Would romances with individuals who fall outside of the binary gender system* come under the umbrella of this thread's discussion purposes? As I'd like to approach the idea of having companions and/or NPC romance options who do not fall into the stereotypical male/female sexes and genders. This can apply to those who fall anywhere within the gender spectrum or those who find themselves outside of it and would also be applicable to those who are members of existing species, and hopefully not only to those who are magically created to somehow fit the idea that gender binaries** are ingrained into genetic code, or something.

Someone who doesn't have a defined sexuality, or a defined sex, maybe that somehow describes it. Herosexual is not what I mean necessarily either, since that's just focussed on your char but not really taking the companion him/herself into account.

Having chars represent the fluidity of gender and sexuality which we do see in real life sometimes, that would be great and rather rather interesting. Still not sure though whether it's necessarily an MMO they'd fit into.

I will pick up on this. As I've said before, I'd really like to have a companion that's not coded into a certain sexuality, if you will. I won't say transsexual or androgynous since for me these are real life descriptions that don't really fit either way.

 

Someone who doesn't have a defined sexuality, or a defined sex, maybe that somehow describes it. Herosexual is not what I mean necessarily, either, since that's just focussed on your char but not really taking the companion him/herself into account.

 

Having chars represent the fluidity of gender and sexuality that we do see in real life sometimes, that would be great and rather rather interesting. Still not sure though whether it's necessarily an MMO they'd fit into.

I'm not so much talking about SWTOR here, but rather the romance system that Bioware has - that is the continued conversations that occur during the game process.

And also it's not so much sexuality or preferences, though that comes into it, but gender, sex and gender presentation (though the latter hinges on what specific gender presentations are and that's a massive whole other topic which is entirely related on the cultures of the peoples in the games and not something that can be identified in a vacuum). It's like: if your character is female and you have a female-bodied/assigned-at-birth companion who considers themself to be agender/bigender, does that qualify as same-gender romance (the purpose of this topic) or same-sex romance (though admittedly we use these terms interchangeably, but only because we're working under the umbrella of the gender binary). Because the mentioned would not be a same-gender relationship (one identifying female, one identifying agender) but would be a same-sex romance.

Now what if our companion is a tertiary sex and gender? Where then do our definitions for the discussion stand when we no longer have opposites?

And I believe this is a perfectly reasonable scenario to expect in a universe where there are multiple sentient species who do not necessarily fit the stereotypical human "two sexes/two genders" rule and wherein we can encounter non-organic sentients in the form of AI.

Does the AI have to identify as a either male or female in order to "qualify" for romantic relationships?

Do those of a tertiary sex or gender have to justify themselves to someone coming from a binary-gender system in order to "qualify" for romance or are they immediately disallowed because they fall outside of the binary?

I suppose I'm asking "are we restricted and if so, why?"

Remember that not all relationships necessarily have to be sexual in nature.

And another, actually on-topic question this time, is when/if Bioware allow for same-sex/gender companion romances, will those couples be allowed to have marriage as an option? Children?

I suppose I'm asking "are we restricted and if so, why?"

I won't comment on the whole conversational gist because I just got up but I believe the two answers to this are "Yes," and "Mostly for simplicity's sake."

Be aware that gender identity issues are still so very unfixed that people who've studied them in universities around the world can't sort them out. There's an awful lot of content to get into with any study of gender identity, gender roles, sexuality and the like, and all of it lays well outside the scope of ordinary game designers.

Including same-sex relationships in a game where the framework for relationships already exists (and is utilised by heterosexual relationships) is relatively easy. If you start throwing in other points along the gender spectrum (including but not limited to transgendered, intersex and genderless identities) then you vastly increase the amount of work needed (mostly for the writers, I believe, but also for the voice actors and the lawyers).

Anything that changes models (I mean REAL changes, not just reskins) is going to cause a leap in work again. If you want a companion to have a unique head then you need to get concept artists in, they need to collaborate with modellers, they need to collaborate with writers and so on; with SWTOR there's also a requirement for alternate appearances.

I got this thought recently when I was looking through a book called The Art of Alice: Madness Returns. I was actually looking for Julie Dillon art (of which there wasn't much) but I was startled at how much content they designed (and even modelled and put in the game) but didn't make functional because they ran out of time. Arguments over things like Alice's basic look and even her blue dress went on for ages. They changed the weapon system (and all of the outfits) about halfway through, which would have taken a complete redesign.

My point is that there's an awful lot that we don't see (though personally I'd quite like to) and what seems simple and obvious to us might be an absolute PITA to actually implement - due to interpersonal clashes amongst the creativity staff alone, not to mention everything else. In each case of every companion we see you can bet there have been arguments over what they should look like, how they should talk, what their values should be - and that's all before getting to sexuality and gender identity.

How many people wanted Kira tougher or Tharan more flamboyant? How many staff hated Holiday's Digital Valley Girl act? We have no idea. And you can imagine how much more confusing and aggressive it would be to throw in more gender identities. Maybe 'time and budgeting constraints' actually means 'we kept arguing for way too long'. There'd be arguments about how to write such characters, warnings and disputes over what is and isn't stereotypical, considerations over what kinds of species could suit for companions that don't fit into the binary gender model (and whether humans fit into such a model in any case).

That's not to say I wouldn't love to see that kind of content. Heck to the yeah, I would. I'd LOVE it. But a lot just doesn't go into games that would otherwise be great additions because people can't agree in time, or because time really DOES run out, or because there's no way to attain a particular look or physics functionality.

I agree, but it seems most don't like her.

I just wish they would fix Ashara to the point my female Inquisitors could get normal gift affection, much less romance.

I won't comment on the whole conversational gist because I just got up but I believe the two answers to this are "Yes," and "Mostly for simplicity's sake."

 

*lengthy snip*

 

That's not to say I wouldn't love to see that kind of content. Heck to the yeah, I would. I'd LOVE it. But a lot just doesn't go into games that would otherwise be great additions because people can't agree in time, or because time really DOES run out, or because there's no way to attain a particular look or physics functionality.

Thank you for the input, Kioma I was approaching the subject largely hypothetically, so I did completely forget the impracticalities of it all.

And yes, gender identity is terribly nuanced and very confusing for everyone involved (and not involved), especially when you think of gender presentation being different from the individual's identity and then physical sex. It is a bit of a far fetched idea to have in games and though I was using Star Wars examples, I'm under no illusions as to us seeing trans* companions or continued-NPCs in this game.

Still, you'd think at least AI would be a future possibility in SWTOR Even if their gender has to be defined as definitely man or woman.

Of course if you want to think that Bioware's mods know the difference between sex and gender, the title of this thread means that trans* individuals could be a hypothetical possibility in this game...

... and though I was using Star Wars examples, I'm under no illusions as to us seeing trans* companions or continued-NPCs in this game.

Which is a little sad, really. Oh well.

Still, you'd think at least AI would be a future possibility in SWTOR Even if their gender has to be defined as definitely man or woman.

Well, given that both EDI (in Mass Effect) and Holiday (in SWTOR) are self-aware AIs with emotive capacity I can't really see why they wouldn't, at some point, present a romanceable AI companion. Or at least a flirtable AI NPC.

Of course if you want to think that Bioware's mods know the difference between sex and gender, the title of this thread means that trans* individuals could be a hypothetical possibility in this game...

See, I don't see a problem with this. Remove male/female flags for clothing, perhaps add in a pitch shifter to adjust the pitch of the existing voices up or down, maybe (if you REALLY want to cover all bases) change from four body types to a height-weight-muscle slider system and you've got a HECK of a lot more flexibility in character creation. It certainly isn't the same as a character selection system in which you can choose your gender identity from a huge list but it'd give people more flexibility than the binary options.

Having said that I play an intersex Sith Inquisitor and I just selected Female for her because that's what she looks the most like.

See, I don't see a problem with this. Remove male/female flags for clothing, perhaps add in a pitch shifter to adjust the pitch of the existing voices up or down, maybe (if you REALLY want to cover all bases) change from four body types to a height-weight-muscle slider system and you've got a HECK of a lot more flexibility in character creation. It certainly isn't the same as a character selection system in which you can choose your gender identity from a huge list but it'd give people more flexibility than the binary options.

.

Choosing your gender identity from a huge list sounds very daunting - the idea of having pitch sliders and body sliders for this actually sounds like the more welcoming of the two options: start with bio-male or bio-female frames and work from there. But this is getting wildly off-topic.

I think my Agent would probably form a close platonic, if not romantic, relationship with a (male-identified) AI. I'd imagine the two could have quite a few things in common, given what happened in the Agent storyline.

I just love your obsession with the ship cat. I wish we'd get some.

This tendency towards exaggeration is very unbecoming, Lent ! ! !

Just because someone is a little persistent !