I would agree, and trust me, it isn't lost on me on how unfortunate that is - however, that's exactly where the game has gone. The change in philosophy occured when there were those mass bioware layoffs. Most of the story advocates got sacked, and they put a new head producer in place. Since then, there has been this migration AWAY from story in the game, including trying to close up plot points the original staff intentionally left open for expansion (i.e. claiming now the Jedi Knight really did kill the Emperor when after originally completing the Sith Warrior story you used to get an email from the Hands assuring you that while weakened, the Knight only killed the Emperor's Voice - also see changing the False Emperor flashpoint to killing Malgus outright when before he fell into the pit (and therefore conceivably escape).

 

Even when you talk to the people who used to be in charge, Malgus and Revan were both made ways to stay alive, because they had big plans for both down the road.

 

But that change in leadership changed everything. That's why if we want story to continue, we have to show ways that they can profit off of it. Otherwise, if they even do any more planets and story going forward, expect a lot more blandness like Makeb as it relates to the richness of the class stories.

Actually, the change in BW helped, in my opinion, at least in regard to more player customizations and stuff like that.

And, to my knowledge, nobody actually claimed that

, it is just a widely spread opinion, even in the upper echelons of the Empire and Republic thinks that it really is true (or they are using it as a propaganda to demoralize the Empire and convince fringe worlds to stand united with Republic).

As for Malgus, I assumed this was a dumbing down of the mechanics, because some people are obviously dumb to use their knockbacks or the conveniently located concussion grenades.

As for Revan, nothing was mentioned or stated about him, it is possible that he is recuperating somewhere and reacquiring his followers.

Well, keep in mind, the main content would already be in place because the backdrop is the expansion pack, which everyone buys.

 

So a requirement for those class quests would be the expansion pack - a prereq if you will.

 

Then all we are talking about is a questline using already-made content as the setting, because most of the assets needed will have already been made for the purposes of the expansion pack, which again, everyone buys, ala makeb.

So what you're suggesting is actually "double dipping" kinda right? Sell an "expansion", but withhold the quests to sell them at a later time...or...sell the "expansion" with just enough quests that it qualifies as an "expansion", followed by selling the NEW quests later on, individually, in the CM?

I guess I just don't understand how you think selling them would be worth any real $ on the CM. If they sell an "expansion" and don't have new quests, people will be furious. If they then sell quests, or even just "better quests", people would again be furious.

I don't see where the payout is for Bioware in this scenario? All they would end up doing is shooting themselves in the foot by releasing the crap quests with the "expansion" and then double dipping on that expansion by trying squeeze more out of a few...wouldn't they just be better off charging more upfront for MORE content?

The part I simply don't understand is how your idea makes Bioware MORE money?

Actually, the change in BW helped, in my opinion, at least in regard to more player customizations and stuff like that.

And, to my knowledge, nobody actually claimed that

the Emperor is dead

, it is just a widely spread opinion, even in the upper echelons of the Empire and Republic thinks that it really is true (or they are using it as a propaganda to demoralize the Empire and convince fringe worlds to stand united with Republic).

As for Malgus, I assumed this was a dumbing down of the mechanics, because some people are obviously dumb to use their knockbacks or the conveniently located concussion grenades.

As for Revan, nothing was mentioned or stated about him, it is possible that he is recuperating somewhere and reacquiring his followers.

To bring you up to speed on the spoiler:

To bring you up to speed on the spoiler:

 

 

At the Chicago Cantina Crawl, one of Eric's trivia questions was "which 2 class story endings contradict each other?" and the Answer was JK and SW because at the end of the SW , the emperor is alive, and the JK kills the emperor at the end of his story - this all per Eric Musco. A contradiction would only exist if the Knight killed the actual emperor, and its made clear as I said, that this wasn't the original intent based on the email the Warrior gets from the Hands.

Oh, ok... maybe Eric was trolling the asker? Or maybe he does not know?

It seems like a stupid thing to say, or even ask, why would anyone ask if story endings contradict each other when there is nothing to suggest that

Oh, ok... maybe Eric was trolling the asker? Or maybe he does not know?

 

It seems like a stupid thing to say, or even ask, why would anyone ask if story endings contradict each other when there is nothing to suggest that

You don't get it - there was no asker. This wasn't Q&A.

This was Trivia time - Eric asked the question, and then gave a prize to the person who answered correctly in his mind.

That right there spoke more volume about how they view story than anything else they said that night.

You don't get it - there was no asker. This wasn't Q&A.

 

This was Trivia time - Eric asked the question, and then gave a prize to the person who answered correctly in his mind.

 

That right there spoke more volume about how they view story than anything else they said that night.

Oh well, sadly, I have not managed to get to any Cantina Tour yet (there was just one in Europe last year and I could not get there), so I have no idea how it looks in there or what questions are asked and how.

That does seem really weird, and I would love to hear Eric's reply to this. Have the canon been modified so that what ZionHalycon is saying is true?

So what you're suggesting is actually "double dipping" kinda right? Sell an "expansion", but withhold the quests to sell them at a later time...or...sell the "expansion" with just enough quests that it qualifies as an "expansion", followed by selling the NEW quests later on, individually, in the CM?

 

I guess I just don't understand how you think selling them would be worth any real $ on the CM. If they sell an "expansion" and don't have new quests, people will be furious. If they then sell quests, or even just "better quests", people would again be furious.

 

I don't see where the payout is for Bioware in this scenario? All they would end up doing is shooting themselves in the foot by releasing the crap quests with the "expansion" and then double dipping on that expansion by trying squeeze more out of a few...wouldn't they just be better off charging more upfront for MORE content?

 

The part I simply don't understand is how your idea makes Bioware MORE money?

I think I should break this down a bit.

So what you're suggesting is actually "double dipping" kinda right? Sell an "expansion", but withhold the quests to sell them at a later time...or...sell the "expansion" with just enough quests that it qualifies as an "expansion", followed by selling the NEW quests later on, individually, in the CM?

In a sense but not quite. Would you be happy paying for an expansion like Makeb again? That had zero class stories. What if the devs decided to go back and add, again over the course of a year, class stories to Makeb? All the assets are there, they just create a questline for one of the professions and then sell it?

Its a lot like that. The people that don't want the class stories don't have to have them. They can just buy another makeb-like expansion.

I guess I just don't understand how you think selling them would be worth any real $ on the CM. If they sell an "expansion" and don't have new quests, people will be furious. If they then sell quests, or even just "better quests", people would again be furious.

Does Makeb have quests? Why wouldn't the expansion have quests? The Expansion just wouldn't have class quests, JUST LIKE MAKEB. Post Expansion, you can allocate a small team that worked on it to create class quests, one at a time, on the same expansion planet you just released.

And people in this very thread already said they'd pay for them too - thats the bottom line for a company, isn't it - to make money?

I don't see where the payout is for Bioware in this scenario? All they would end up doing is shooting themselves in the foot by releasing the crap quests with the "expansion" and then double dipping on that expansion by trying squeeze more out of a few...wouldn't they just be better off charging more upfront for MORE content?

 

The part I simply don't understand is how your idea makes Bioware MORE money?

The problem lies in development. It takes time and waiting on class quests to get done, even if you charge more for it, would cause the expansion itself to be delayed. However, if with Makeb as the shining example, you can sell and expansion that has no class stories, again just like Makeb, and then have a small team work on adding class stories unlockable from the cartel market post expansion launch, thus bringing in money on top of the expansion money, then you don't have to slow down production of the expansion, and by releasing the class stories over time one class at a time, you don't overtax your development staff or tie them up with something you might be afraid won't pay off in the end. Instead, you get DIRECT feedback on the viability of this because once you create a questline from the existing expansion assets and put it up for sale, you'll be able to track sales and see how it does. Really, its no different than what they did using Cathar as a test for future species.

Oh well, sadly, I have not managed to get to any Cantina Tour yet (there was just one in Europe last year and I could not get there), so I have no idea how it looks in there or what questions are asked and how.

 

That does seem really weird, and I would love to hear Eric's reply to this. Have the canon been modified so that what ZionHalycon is saying is true?

No worries, just wanted to lay out the context for ya. Sorry if I came off harsh.

As for Malgus, I assumed this was a dumbing down of the mechanics, because some people are obviously dumb to use their knockbacks or the conveniently located concussion grenades.

As for Revan, nothing was mentioned or stated about him, it is possible that he is recuperating somewhere and reacquiring his followers.

That's what I assumed; well that and the fact that Malgus often bugged up - and even ten knockbacks in a row wouldn't push the stubborn old bastard over the ledge.

That's what I assumed; well that and the fact that Malgus often bugged up - and even ten knockbacks in a row wouldn't push the stubborn old bastard over the ledge.

Ah, I remember they finally fixed the issue with him. Then several months later they made this as a stealth change.

Ah, I remember they finally fixed the issue with him. Then several months later they made this as a stealth change.

I'm not so sure that original fix fully did the job, I could've sworn I still had it happen after they implemented that - but I can't say for sure since I've only run the FP a handful of times since the raising of the level cap.

Common mobs sometimes have similar issues too when they get knocked off something, so I suspect they gave up on the whole thing and just went with the simplest (and surest) way of permanently whacking the issue.

I'm not so sure that original fix fully did the job, I could've sworn I still had it happen after they implemented that - but I can't say for sure since I've only run the FP a handful of times since the raising of the level cap.

Common mobs sometimes have similar issues too when they get knocked off something, so I suspect they gave up on the whole thing and just went with the simplest (and surest) way of permanently whacking the issue.

Lol, I miss the old bug of letting Malgus kill himself

Lol, I miss the old bug of letting Malgus kill himself

I don't think I've ever gotten that one. =/

What did he do? Jump to a player and go over the edge? (Like some Marauders and Sentinels do now and then in FPs )

I don't think I've ever gotten that one. =/

What did he do? Jump to a player and go over the edge? (Like some Marauders and Sentinels do now and then in FPs )

You have 3 players stand near the ledge of the bridge, while the tank, takes him diagonally from your position to another pit section.

Get the distance right, and Malgus would jump from the tank to another party member and "slip" into the pit and BOOM, instance over, get your reward and go home

Oh, and I did exactly what you said once - as a warrior, I forceleaped to an enemy and halfway there, an inquizzy knocked the enemy into a pit. There i go changing direction in mid air and down the pit I go!!!!

I never laughed so hard at dying before...

You have 3 players stand near the ledge of the bridge, while the tank, takes him diagonally from your position to another pit section.

 

Get the distance right, and Malgus would jump from the tank to another party member and "slip" into the pit and BOOM, instance over, get your reward and go home

 

 

 

Oh, and I did exactly what you said once - as a warrior, I forceleaped to an enemy and halfway there, an inquizzy knocked the enemy into a pit. There i go changing direction in mid air and down the pit I go!!!!

 

I never laughed so hard at dying before...

Ah, that's pretty much what I envisioned!

Hehe, as for the jumping... you're not a real Warrior/Knight until you go over the edge because of a leap & knockback combination at least one time!

I know exactly how you felt. When it happened to me my reaction was pretty much "OMG! I always KNEW that one day this would happen to me too!" - definitely one of those hillarious moments to look back on.

I'm not trolling. I am correcting false information presented by you. It's not my fault you used false information.

Sorry lil miss, but you dont get to decide if you are trolling or not...according to you:

But none of us gets to decide what is/is-not trolling or flame-baiting.

Sorry lil miss, but you dont get to decide if you are trolling or not...according to you:

 

 

 

Well played, good sir. Well played!

Can't be on CM tbh, given the monthly stipend from subs.

But digital expansions... why not? GS already set the bar rather low on what would constitute and expansion in their book. Class quest packs/DLCs? I could see it as a way to double monetize any future Makeb-esque addition. Pay for base, and order classes a-la-carte. Altholics have my sympathies if that ever hapens. =P

I think I should break this down a bit.

 

In a sense but not quite. Would you be happy paying for an expansion like Makeb again? That had zero class stories. What if the devs decided to go back and add, again over the course of a year, class stories to Makeb? All the assets are there, they just create a questline for one of the professions and then sell it?

 

Its a lot like that. The people that don't want the class stories don't have to have them. They can just buy another makeb-like expansion.

 

Does Makeb have quests? Why wouldn't the expansion have quests? The Expansion just wouldn't have class quests, JUST LIKE MAKEB. Post Expansion, you can allocate a small team that worked on it to create class quests, one at a time, on the same expansion planet you just released.

 

And people in this very thread already said they'd pay for them too - thats the bottom line for a company, isn't it - to make money?

 

The problem lies in development. It takes time and waiting on class quests to get done, even if you charge more for it, would cause the expansion itself to be delayed. However, if with Makeb as the shining example, you can sell and expansion that has no class stories, again just like Makeb, and then have a small team work on adding class stories unlockable from the cartel market post expansion launch, thus bringing in money on top of the expansion money, then you don't have to slow down production of the expansion, and by releasing the class stories over time one class at a time, you don't overtax your development staff or tie them up with something you might be afraid won't pay off in the end. Instead, you get DIRECT feedback on the viability of this because once you create a questline from the existing expansion assets and put it up for sale, you'll be able to track sales and see how it does. Really, its no different than what they did using Cathar as a test for future species.

OK...I think I see where you're going now...

So...if they did this, say they start with the Jedi Knight class - he goes before the Jedi Council, they tell him "Makeb needs you", he goes there and does a new set of quests made specifically for the Knight.

A few months later, they release the Trooper specific class quest DLC pack. 4 classes, they release a new "class story DLC" every 3 months.

Hmmm...as long as "expansions" kept coming out and as long as content was still being released at a decent rate, this could actually work. Still, it would really be a gamble for them if they were to try it.

Well played, good sir. Well played!

Well played upon you, you mean. You accused me of trolling.. remember. Nagus simply ratified what I said... though he thought he was being his typical snarky cuteness... which I rarely see since he is on permanent ignore.

And you were both off topic in your thread. Stop hijacking your own thread and encouraging others to do the same, IMO.

Well played upon you, you mean. You accused me of trolling.. remember. Nagus simply ratified what I said...

Sorry deary, but you dont get to exclude yourself from your own "rules". You said:

But none of us gets to decide what is/is-not trolling or flame-baiting.

So if "no one"(which includes you) gets to decide what is or IS NOT trolling, then that means you dont even get to decide you arent trolling if someone accuses you

OK...I think I see where you're going now...

 

So...if they did this, say they start with the Jedi Knight class - he goes before the Jedi Council, they tell him "Makeb needs you", he goes there and does a new set of quests made specifically for the Knight.

 

A few months later, they release the Trooper specific class quest DLC pack. 4 classes, they release a new "class story DLC" every 3 months.

 

Hmmm...as long as "expansions" kept coming out and as long as content was still being released at a decent rate, this could actually work. Still, it would really be a gamble for them if they were to try it.

Yep, precisely. And it would give context to some stories as well. For instance, no way in heck should a Sith Warrior should be taking orders from Darth Marr - not in the context of the story. He answers to a "higher power". However, if there was a class story attached, where the Hands told you Marr was coming and had an assignment on Makeb for you to complete while there, AND make it look like you are getting along with Marr per orders... suddenly the whole thing takes on a new context.

Personally, I think they can always use Makeb as an experiment with the idea first. Its already there - why not add some class stories there? Would make a good testing ground to evaluate risk and check sales - its short enough too so any quest chains wouldn't be too lengthy.

Sorry deary, but you dont get to exclude yourself from your own "rules". You said:

 

 

 

So if "no one"(which includes you) gets to decide what is or IS NOT trolling, then that means you dont get to decide you arent trolling if someone accuses you

You must have hit close to the mark to get her all riled up like that.

You must have hit close to the mark to get her all riled up like that.

You can wish and hope. Sorry, neither you nor Nagus have any power over me.

So...are you going to keep derailing your own thread and making it about me? What's up with that?

You can wish and hope. Sorry, neither you nor Nagus have any power over me.

 

So...are you going to keep derailing your own thread and making it about me? What's up with that?

If you keep making it about you, who am I to argue? After all, if we did hold no power over you, you wouldn't have cared enough to respond in the first place.

In all seriousness, I've been able to hold a really civil conversation on the topic in your absence, where we really didn't talk about you. And I look forward to not discussing you going forward, mixed in with parts where you jump in and complain I am talking too much about you, as you just did now.