Cuz solo pug players just wanna equal (= random) chances for team composition (i.e. skill, class, gear) for both sides, for real pvp competitive game.

 

If they faced premade, they dont get nothing from that.

meh. they also get carried if they land on the team with the skilled premade. but you have put your finger on the rub. it tilts the matches horribly (one way or the other - as previously mentioned, a bad premade can ruin a team too).

Same reason people hated the gear gap and why they hate people from good pvp guilds. Because people wanna win. They'll say they want competitive games and blah blah blah, and I'll give them that I'd usually rather lose a close game than get stomped into the ground, but lets face it. People who truly hate premades hate losing. .

right. and the "i just want to be able to play with my friends" line is a heart felt truth. of course everybody wants to win. however, I think the vast majority of ppl would rather play close games than get spawn camped. a loss is not just a loss. a win is not just a win.

Truth is...premades love stomping

I don't think so. but the egos on the elite players are astronomical, and many/most think they should never have to lose or deal with inferior players. along the never lose lines, they stack the deck as much in their favor as possible by grping with other elite players.

you can't blame them for grping with other elite players and wanting to win. on the other hand, I don't see how they could possibly blame anyone else for wanting the option for a solo only Q so as to avoid such manufactured odds.

sorry for the multiple posts, but I'm not dong the cut 'n' paste thing for all these separate responses.

Make an imperial toon and then go play on the harbinger for about 4 hours after server reset each day and you'll have your answer.

I play on the harbinger and 10-49 PVP is laughable for the most part.. Due to the frustration on fleet Level 50 aint much better these days.. now if you want to mention ranked there are several guilds that do it quite well on both sides. If your an above average player.. If your pugging your risking nobody knowing what call inc means let alone focus fire, mark and burn the healers first etc.. Its gotten to the point I rarely PVP. I used to PVP all the time and Ive had the pleasure of being in some really competitive matches..

If you decide to stick it out, wait 5-10 minutes before q'ing again to avoid your team of baddies and the premade that you just played with.

but that team of baddies had the same idea! and now you're stuck with them again!

Just one interesting point from my observations of the big premade loving posters.

Many say casuals just don't want to get better. From my years of pvp experience I have found that it is the premaders in games without matchmaking that don't only fail to improve but actually become worse players in a situation where they are pressured and don't have a pocket healer.

Infact, I have always pugged a large portion of the time even when I was the leader of pvp guilds so that I didn't rely on great teammates. I would also make sure to pug at times when the other faction was stronger and so that I would be heavily pressured (when you pug and are not pressured it is the same as being in a premade).

Most of the big premaders I see in swtor very rarely pug. I play evenings after work and a decent amount on weekends on all 8 of my 50s (4 each faction) and there aren't too many ppl that are very good and pug very often. Also, I see many players that are considered very good the rare times they do pug and are pressured and most of them are mediocre at best in these situations.

You premaders need to realize this. It will help you improve immensely.

I'll also use one example from my last mmo, Rift. I played from the headstart and there was this one war who was very skilled in lowbie and was great at 50 as well. He was one of the top threats on the other team every match he was in and he was pretty much always my first target (even above healers if I thought I could drop him fast enough). However, at 50 he started premading all the time and months went by without him ever pugging.

I often joked with him about random stuff as I respected him. However, I eventually started ragging on him for never pugging and he finally did pug for a full night. Remember, early on he was a great pugger as well. He was absolutely horrible in every close match of the night. I mean horrible. He admitted as much and it was pretty funny.

I also knew a MM and a mage with similiar stories. So yes I say it is the premaders who don't want to improve.

Problem is not premades, the problem is players that give up at the sight of premades. If you do not want to face a premade do not pvp. I know telling another player not to queue is harsh, but every player that makes the choice to camp a node because they are facing a premade are truly the only aspect that ruins the game for others.

I always queue with my friends, we would love to do ranked by sadly it is hard to get 4 other players that are willing to queue with deaf / hard of hearing players. If they add arenas I would never queue for an objective based warzone ever again.

In the end though do not queue for pvp if you do want to engage in pvp. Node campers that rather whine about premades instead of leaving are what truly make warzones unfair and not enjoyable.

Problem is not premades, the problem is players that give up at the sight of premades. If you do not want to face a premade do not pvp. I know telling another player not to queue is harsh, but every player that makes the choice to cap a node because they are facing a premade are truly the only aspect that ruins the game for others.

Agreed...give evryone a button so they can play amongst themselves with no premades allowed if thats what they want, at least then they won't be annoying those who want to get on with it and have a game

they're hated because they don't play against other premades where the gear is equal. premades avoid rated wz's for the sole opportunity to pugstomp 8 randoms in recruit gear while you're all geared with elite wh and augmented and in vent.

if you're genuinely not sure why one team in vent with max gear against 8 pugs in recruit trying to gear up.. i don't know what to do for you because you're clueless and have no empathy

they're hated because they don't play against other premades where the gear is equal. premades avoid rated wz's for the sole opportunity to pugstomp 8 randoms in recruit gear while you're all geared with elite wh and augmented and in vent.

They're hated because they show people that roflstomped in pre 50PvP that they really don't know what they're doing and that they should have been paying more attention to the goals of the WZs instead of Ramboing around.

I don't think people dislike premades because they are some special entity. Truth is you can be an average player on your own while being on a good premade.

Pugs don't want to face them because if you are fighting with a bunch of random people and you're fighting a full 8 man group that is assisting and profession stacking then it's not going to be all that fun. I think it's more so hate towards a flawed design than anything personal.

Now if you're the weak link in your successful premade (chances are everyone will know this but you) and you're that guy that runs your mouth, but sucks on your own/ won't que unless your hand is being held by better players, then yes people may genuinely dislike you.

right. and the "i just want to be able to play with my friends" line is a heart felt truth. of course everybody wants to win. however, I think the vast majority of ppl would rather play close games than get spawn camped. a loss is not just a loss. a win is not just a win.

If you want really close games a good matchmaking system will do way more for EVERYONE than splitting queues. That was also in the rest of that big wall of text you only partially quoted =P

Because some people really DO just want to play with friends just like some people want to just log on and PVP for awhile, and we both know both want to win, and would like to feel like they have at least a decent chance. Proper matchmaking will help a lot.

I'm sorry but only bads hate premades. Personally as a solo queuer I'd much rather face a 4 man premade then 8 randoms who have no clue what they are doing. 95% of my favorite warzones (most enjoyable) were against a team with a premade on it.

Jenna'syyde

I have no problem losing, if you're republican on a German server, you get used to it quickly :-)

You can't say though that people who don't organize premades for themselves are plain lazy. Not everyone wants to/can join a PvP guild, wants to/can use TS every day for coordinated PVP. Me, I have to go AFK frequently for health reasons, so I can't do premade, my mates would go crazy.

I have the feeling that some premade opponent groups I encounter are so much stronger than the PUG group I'm in, it can't be very challenging for them. Still they keep on listing which looks a bit like pure enjoyment of dominating inferior opponents. If they wanna do that ok, it still seems kinda low to me.

I'd just say if you enlist together for a warzone from 4 people upwards, reduce comms for the win (leave valor and credits untouched though) and increase the reduction factor with every person more than 4. If you're eight people in non Rated BG, give them only half the comms. (Rated was designed for those players actually).

Since you win non Rated BGs in 8 man premades in half the time than usual anyway, and you're not waiting for invites as long as PUGs, that's a fair deal. And there's simply no way any PUG group can ever beat an 8 man premade using TS. Just no going to happen...

I'm sorry but only bads hate premades.[/b]

This game designed for bads. Successful people dont play in MMO and computer games

If you want really close games a good matchmaking system will do way more for EVERYONE than splitting queues. That was also in the rest of that big wall of text you only partially quoted =P

 

Because some people really DO just want to play with friends just like some people want to just log on and PVP for awhile, and we both know both want to win, and would like to feel like they have at least a decent chance. Proper matchmaking will help a lot.

QFMFT. Better match making is really win/win.

I don't think people dislike premades because they are some special entity. Truth is you can be an average player on your own while being on a good premade.

 

Pugs don't want to face them because if you are fighting with a bunch of random people and you're fighting a full 8 man group that is assisting and profession stacking then it's not going to be all that fun. I think it's more so hate towards a flawed design than anything personal.

 

Now if you're the weak link in your successful premade (chances are everyone will know this but you) and you're that guy that runs your mouth, but sucks on your own/ won't que unless your hand is being held by better players, then yes people may genuinely dislike you.

While I don't disagree fully, I would ask how would you improve that flawed design? I personally don't think there is a lot of wiggle room to "fix" the flawed design. Atleast not without some people upset one way or the other. There isn't really a way to please everyone. If you ban premades, then guilds and former premaders will be unhappy. If you don't ban premades, a lot of casuals will be unhappy. If you add a bolster system to bring everyone's gear to par, the "I worked hard for this gear and they're basically getting it for free" people will be upset.

One idea, and I know this would be unpopular, is to have a "average gear rating" to use in matching up groups. This would at least put people together that are of similar stats. The part of voice chat adding an advantage wouldn't be addressed unless BW puts one into the game. Which is possible if they wanted to.

I dunno. It's a difficult task to balance the restrictions versus players' desires vs accessibility vs technical problems. Throw in class balance and it's just one big mess to try and fix.

Premades need the crutch. Takes more skill to win as a pug than with a constant pocket healer and guardbot. Unless you're fighting other premades, which leads to my next point:

They're too scared to do ranked.

RvR cures the premade blues. Take Rift as example. Even though it pretends to be RVR, but proves bigger numbers in a way hides broken classes,bads and premades. A Rift power guild named Illuminati many times controlled start of CQ matches until more numbers rolled in....then they werent as noticed and had less impact. In turn....everyone were equal chasing it's zerg tail (why I state Rift pretends to be RvR, even though it offers unpredictable encounters). And thats what games are intended for...not just for elites and epeens.

Ever since Blizzard trained and fooled the MMO mind that a few rockpaperscissor instances can be disguised as real endgame pvp, premades and exclusive loots been steam rolling and nerfing pvp...while regular & casual customers can only watch. New gens has always been like that.

BW has a chance to change all that and make it their own now.

Premades need the crutch. Takes more skill to win as a pug than with a constant pocket healer and guardbot. Unless you're fighting other premades, which leads to my next point:

 

They're too scared to do ranked.

Well if rws were popping 24/7 and you could take any spec into them I am sure they would be more popular. Anyways nothing is more fun being on a pug with 6 tanks and 2 deeps or 6 mercs all speced arsenal or a bunch of lethality ops or the rare abundance of healers. I can have no issue with pugs but even with a pure pug v pug group it can be way worse than a facing a premade.

There's nothing wrong with pre-mades, per se. A pre-made could just be 3 or 4 friends playing together, and there should be nothing to stop that from happening. My point is not every pre-made' is a nightmare group from hell to play against (or with). And if people have the foresight to create a 'balanced' team (I'll come on to that in a second) then good for them... it makes the warzones more fun when you have a mix of classes.

Pre-mades usually have the advantage of voice comms (something I'd love to see added to the game for any ops group) but sometimes that can be disadvantage if they don't communicate properly with the other half of their ops group.

When it ceases to be fun is when you have an opposing team consisting of 2 pre-made kill-squads, all with full min-max aug'd EWH gear, stacking uber-dps FotM classes with people who really know how to play their toons, coming up against a group with people in recruit gear (or worse, the ones who don't even realise that recruit gear is better than their Tionese set for PvP) who are still trying to learn their class abilities in pvp.

Because most pre-mades seem to stack dps uber alles the rate at which these groups destroy an 'unbalanced' (as opposed to imbalanced!) team is frightening. It only takes a small imbalance ...just one or two people who can't play their chosen class to it's full potential (whether that's down to gear, skill or a combination of factors) will turn what could have been a fun warzone into a rout. It doesn't matter how well you're geared, or how well you play individually, the already large disparity in dps increases as each person is 'eliminated' (albeit temporarily) from the fight. And then of course the QQ starts, and most of the time it's game over.

I've seen it from both sides of the coin as I play both as a member of a pre-made team where my tank regularly has 250K+ protection and the healer and dps I group with are racking up 500K+ respective stats), and often beat similarly geared teams whereas playing individually and meeting those same people / teams it turns into a massacre.

It's not even a question of 'L2P' for the losers in those cases - people simply don't live long enough to learn anything about their class when you're getting slaughtered in 2 GCDs. It's demoralising to the extent that it's counterproductive - people simply stop playing because it's just not fun, and the pool of potential players decreases so your chance of encountering another pre-made uberteam is increased.

 

When it ceases to be fun is when you have an opposing team consisting of 2 pre-made kill-squads, all with full min-max aug'd EWH gear, stacking uber-dps FotM classes with people who really know how to play their toons, coming up against a group with people in recruit gear (or worse, the ones who don't even realise that recruit gear is better than their Tionese set for PvP) who are still trying to learn their class abilities in pvp.

 

Because most pre-mades seem to stack dps uber alles the rate at which these groups destroy an 'unbalanced' (as opposed to imbalanced!) team is frightening. It only takes a small imbalance ...just one or two people who can't play their chosen class to it's full potential (whether that's down to gear, skill or a combination of factors) will turn what could have been a fun warzone into a rout. It doesn't matter how well you're geared, or how well you play individually, the already large disparity in dps increases as each person is 'eliminated' (albeit temporarily) from the fight. And then of course the QQ starts, and most of the time it's game over.

 

I've seen it from both sides of the coin as I play both as a member of a pre-made team where my tank regularly has 250K+ protection and the healer and dps I group with are racking up 500K+ respective stats), and often beat similarly geared teams whereas playing individually and meeting those same people / teams it turns into a massacre.

 

According to select few long winded posters here, what you describe does not exist, and is a myth perpetuated by skill-less noobs.

90% of the time, I pug and I don't really mind premades IF they are trying to win efficiently.

Last night, I joined a premade myself and we got huttball.

5 mins later it was 5:0 in our favor and the warzone should have been over.

But one guy says "don't score, lets farm them!"

So, for the next 5 minutes the warzone deteriorated into a DM-style pug slaughter.

Finally I was disgusted enough to score and end it, which prompted my teammates to yell at me.

Getting steamrolled by a superior team isn't nice, but an acceptable part of the game.

Getting unnecessarily humiliated for the maximum duration of the warzone is what's really hated.

Unfortunately, there will always be people who enjoy inflicting misery on others, hence pug and premade queues should be separated.