"Six there were for generations of Jedi. The seventh is not well known. Powerful Form it is. Deadliest of all. But dangerous it is, for its master as well as its opponent. Few have studied. One student alone, to mastery has risen."- Jedi Master Yoda, Master of Juyo

 

The final Form taught by Cin Drallig is that of the aggressive Juyo Form. Here's Cin Drallig's final recording on Lightsaber Forms...

 

Form VII, also called Juyo, is the most difficult and demanding of all forms. Only high-level masters of multiple forms can achieve and control this discipline, which can lead to fantastic power and skill. Form VII employs bold, direct movements, more open and kinetic than Form V, but not so elaborate in appearance as the acrobatic Form IV. Unlike Form V, Form VII requires greater energy because the focus is wielded more broadly, and draws upon a deeper well of emotion; while the outward bearing of a Form VII practitioner is one of calm, the inner pressure verges on explosion. And unlike the graceful linked movement sequences of Form IV, Form VII tactics overwhelm opponents with seemingly unconnected staccato sequences. This combination of traits makes Form VII highly unpredictable in battle.

Because so few have achieved the necessary mastery to advance to Form VII, this discipline can only be regarded as under development by a select few, and forbidden to all others. Mace Windu and his former Padawan Depa Billaba are among the only practitioners of Form VII, and even they acknowledge that it is a dangerous regimen that may cut close to the Sith intensity of focus on physical combat ability.

 

The Juyo form is a powerful form indeed. Few practice the Form and even fewer can achieve mastery of it. The Juyo Form is the most offensive of the Lightsaber Forms and relies heavily on emotions. Darth Sidious labels the Juyo Form as the "Sith style", due to its intense focus on physical combat. Very few Jedi practice Form VII and many instructors refuse to teach it. Cin Drallig refused to teach the Form to Anakin Skywalker, as Qui-Gon did with Obi-Wan Kenobi. The Form is mostly used by the Sith. The Sith Lord Darth Maul was a practitioner of the Form.

 

The aggressiveness of Juyo form brings about weaknesses of its own. The Juyo form relies on aggression to maintain effectiveness. If the opponent can put you on the defensive, you would do best to switch to a defensive form or risk defeat. Juyo is also vulnerable to Force attacks.

 

There are only a few practitioners of Juyo, but there are those who study the form. Cin Drallig and Even Piell study the Form, but rarely use it. Practitioners of the Form include: Mace Windu, Yoda, and Depa Billaba.

 

Known Masters: Mace Windu. While Yoda has mastered Juyo, he rarely uses, while Mace Windu uses it as well as the Form of Vaapad, which he created.

 

If you missed Niman, you can find it here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=545969

 

This ends Cin Drallig's teachings of the Lightsaber Forms. Next is Vaapad.

 

If you have a topic you would like to see in the future, post them here or PM me.

Good job. It should be known that Rahm Kota used this form if I remember correctly.

Good job. It should be known that Rahm Kota used this form if I remember correctly.

 

Yes. Rahm Kota was a practitioner of Juyo, but I don't believe he mastered it.

Juyo, if i had been jedi, outside of using Djem-so and Shien, Juyo would of been a form i would of atleast learned.

 

I am sorry, but against another lightsaber fighter, this form can just steamroll another form. I honestly believe you master Juyo, you are a master swordsman, i mean truely master it and not have it master you.

 

Just my two credits.

I would rather learn Vaapad over juyo considering it fixed most of Juyo's weaknesses. Plus you can use your enemies fury against them and let it fuel you so you could last as long as the other person holds out. That is you don't get killed.

Juyo, if i had been jedi, outside of using Djem-so and Shien, Juyo would of been a form i would of atleast learned.

 

I am sorry, but against another lightsaber fighter, this form can just steamroll another form. I honestly believe you master Juyo, you are a master swordsman, i mean truely master it and not have it master you.

 

Just my two credits.

 

Juyo users do become exceptional swordsmen, but even the masters of the Form acknowledge the possibility of emotion getting the best of them. It takes a master of not only the form, but their own emotions, can truly master Juyo.

I would rather learn Vaapad over juyo considering it fixed most of Juyo's weaknesses. Plus you can use your enemies fury against them and let it fuel you so you could last as long as the other person holds out. That is you don't get killed.

 

Vaapad is a difficult form to master as it digs deeper into the well of emotions and you basically become a weapon of the darkness inside you. Mace Windu had mastered the Form to such a great extent that he didn't have to control his actions, he let his body and emotions dictate his movements.

 

Vaapad is particularly effective against Dark Side users. The Form creates a sort of energy siphon that feeds off of the Darkness emanating from the Dark Side user, which empowers the Vaapad user even more. It is the best form for fighting Sith, in my opinion.

Vaapad is a difficult form to master as it digs deeper into the well of emotions and you basically become a weapon of the darkness inside you. Mace Windu had mastered the Form to such a great extent that he didn't have to control his actions, he let his body and emotions dictate his movements.

 

Vaapad is particularly effective against Dark Side users. The Form creates a sort of energy siphon that feeds off of the Darkness emanating from the Dark Side user, which empowers the Vaapad user even more. It is the best form for fighting Sith, in my opinion.

 

Which is why Windu was able to defeat Sidious in the lightsaber duel part of their fight. Vaapad is a good form if you know how to control your emotions.

Yes. This is my absolute favorite form. Although I think that the form has it's weaknesses, I'm the kind of person who thinks that the best defence is often a offense.

 

I would say that a Juyo user is like Braveheart. Seriously, does anyone else think so?

 

When I think of Juyo I think of some crazy man leaping around on a battlefield going absolutely nuts. This forms is wicked.

 

Good post.

Which is why Windu was able to defeat Sidious in the lightsaber duel part of their fight. Vaapad is a good form if you know how to control your emotions.

 

Vaapad is only truely effective against a darkside user, right?

Vaapad is only truely effective against a darkside user, right?

 

I am sure it can be effective against lightsiders though it is extremely good against darksiders since they are usually full of rage and anger.

Vaapad is only truely effective against a darkside user, right?

 

Yes, partially. Vaapad is a branch of Juyo, which is to say Vaapad is a modification of Juyo. So Vaapad has the capabilities of Juyo, but also the added abilities that Mace Windu added to it.

I think many Sith who practice Juyo do it in a rather sloppy way. To master Juyo you need a lot of self discipline. You have to bring your aggressive emotions to excess, but at the same time keep them completely in control. And I think for a Sith using aggressive emotions is easy, but mastering them is not.

 

I would say that a Juyo user is like Braveheart. Seriously, does anyone else think so?

 

When I think of Juyo I think of some crazy man leaping around on a battlefield going absolutely nuts. This forms is wicked.

 

Unfortunately, that is exactly what I would call sloppy Juyo. I think someone who has really mastered Juyo would look more like Darth Maul: You see that he is full of aggressive emotions, but he is also completely controlled.

I think many Sith who practice Juyo do it in a rather sloppy way. To master Juyo you need a lot of self discipline. You have to bring your aggressive emotions to excess, but at the same time keep them completely in control. And I think for a Sith using aggressive emotions is easy, but mastering them is not.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that is exactly what I would call sloppy Juyo. I think someone who has really mastered Juyo would look more like Darth Maul: You see that he is full of aggressive emotions, but he is also completely controlled.

 

I somewhat agree - But Maul actually added to his Mastery of Juyo with Niman and Teras Kasi - He actually Mixed them up to create his own unique Style - so what you see him doing is not pure Juyo.

 

Sidious has stated that Juyo is actually a Sith Style.....

I think many Sith who practice Juyo do it in a rather sloppy way. To master Juyo you need a lot of self discipline. You have to bring your aggressive emotions to excess, but at the same time keep them completely in control. And I think for a Sith using aggressive emotions is easy, but mastering them is not.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that is exactly what I would call sloppy Juyo. I think someone who has really mastered Juyo would look more like Darth Maul: You see that he is full of aggressive emotions, but he is also completely controlled.

 

I suppose you have a point. But I feel that the reckless movements are not as sloppy as you think. The recklessness of Juyo has a advantage, and that is to unbalance the enemy and to make yourself unpredictable. I guess I exadurated a bit with the whole "going nuts on the battlefield."

 

As for Darth Maul, I don''t think that there's any Sith who is "completely" under control.

I suppose you have a point. But I feel that the reckless movements are not as sloppy as you think. The recklessness of Juyo has a advantage, and that is to unbalance the enemy and to make yourself unpredictable. I guess I exadurated a bit with the whole "going nuts on the battlefield."

 

As for Darth Maul, I don''t think that there's any Sith who is "completely" under control.

 

Well, it depends. Juyo requires you to do these reckless movements, like you say. But (just as with Niman) there is a difference between "users" and "masters". Juyo masters calculate their reckless moves for maximal effect with minimal danger.

 

But Darth Maul didn't loose control during the fight on Naboo. Exept right at the end. When Obi-Wan is hanging in the shaft, he just randomly hits the ground with his lightsaber. So maybe he is able to control himself during the fight, but sometimes leashes out afterwards.

 

 

 

Another thought for everyone here (not only about Juyo, but all forms):

 

I found myself wondering if it would be possible to implement the different forms into an RPG or MMORPG better than just as stances which grant a bonus.

Maybe a Jedi could have different skilltrees for every form, with different abilities (moves) for each form. Some abilities would be shared, of course (especially Niman would mostly be a collection of moves form other forms). And then have different skilltrees for Force abilities (healing, telekinesis, enhanced agility etc.).

 

The whole thing would probably also kill the Trinity, because it is much more flexible. For example:

 

Makashi+Healing: Against ranged opponents you heal your group, but when melee opponents arrive, you pick one (only one) and engage him in a one-on-one. In the one on one you don't need support, except that your group has to keep other enemies away from you. And you can't heal them while dueling.

 

Some combinations would be locked, but most would be possible.

 

 

Of course, non-Force using classes would need similar mechanics. Soldiers would have to choose from weapon skilltrees (rifle, assualt cannon, sniper, maybe rocket launcher, maybe vibroblade etc.) and support skilltrees (explosives, medic, electronic warfare etc.).

 

I can imagine that this would be horrible to program and balance, though.

Well, it depends. Juyo requires you to do these reckless movements, like you say. But (just as with Niman) there is a difference between "users" and "masters". Juyo masters calculate their reckless moves for maximal effect with minimal danger.

 

But Darth Maul didn't loose control during the fight on Naboo. Exept right at the end. When Obi-Wan is hanging in the shaft, he just randomly hits the ground with his lightsaber. So maybe he is able to control himself during the fight, but sometimes leashes out afterwards.

 

 

 

Another thought for everyone here (not only about Juyo, but all forms):

 

I found myself wondering if it would be possible to implement the different forms into an RPG or MMORPG better than just as stances which grant a bonus.

Maybe a Jedi could have different skilltrees for every form, with different abilities (moves) for each form. Some abilities would be shared, of course (especially Niman would mostly be a collection of moves form other forms). And then have different skilltrees for Force abilities (healing, telekinesis, enhanced agility etc.).

 

The whole thing would probably also kill the Trinity, because it is much more flexible. For example:

 

Makashi+Healing: Against ranged opponents you heal your group, but when melee opponents arrive, you pick one (only one) and engage him in a one-on-one. In the one on one you don't need support, except that your group has to keep other enemies away from you. And you can't heal them while dueling.

 

Some combinations would be locked, but most would be possible.

 

 

Of course, non-Force using classes would need similar mechanics. Soldiers would have to choose from weapon skilltrees (rifle, assualt cannon, sniper, maybe rocket launcher, maybe vibroblade etc.) and support skilltrees (explosives, medic, electronic warfare etc.).

 

I can imagine that this would be horrible to program and balance, though.

 

Well actually i know for a fact that the jedi knight already learns Shi-Cho off the bat, and can learn ataru through a skill tree then i think he can learn Djem-so if i am not mistaken.

 

If i was going to break down by class[i will use republic classes you can do the cross over for the sith] i'd go like this:

 

Sage: Forms 1, 2, 3

Shadow: 1, 4, 6

Guardian: 1, 3, 5

Sentinel: 1, 4, 7

 

This way everybody shares Shi-cho, but everybody gets one form that nobody else really masters. Sage gets form 2, shadow form 6, Guardian form 5, Sentinel form 7.

Well actually i know for a fact that the jedi knight already learns Shi-Cho off the bat, and can learn ataru through a skill tree then i think he can learn Djem-so if i am not mistaken.

 

If i was going to break down by class[i will use republic classes you can do the cross over for the sith] i'd go like this:

 

Sage: Forms 1, 2, 3

Shadow: 1, 4, 6

Guardian: 1, 3, 5

Sentinel: 1, 4, 7

 

This way everybody shares Shi-cho, but everybody gets one form that nobody else really masters. Sage gets form 2, shadow form 6, Guardian form 5, Sentinel form 7.

 

Yeah, there are some forms ingame, but only as stances that grant certain bonuses. The moves actually don't differ.

 

Your list mostly fits, but I would drop the unique forms and change it that way:

 

Sage: 1, 2, 6 (Form 6 is known as the Diplomats form and also very Force-friendly)

Shadow: 1, 3, 4 (Shadows have a tank specc and Form 3 is the tank form)

Guardian: 1, 3, 5

Sentinel: 1, 4, 7

 

But I would drop the different Jedi classes entirely, instead have a free combination of Form-Skilltree and Force-Skilltree. What we know as classes would be functions in the Order and only determine your story. (Obi-Wan was a Guardian, but was sent on diplomatic missions from time to time.)

 

Of course SWTOR will never be that way, I'm just dreaming

Lurking on all these threads have been really interesting, I never really knew much about the lightsaber forms until now But I did think of one question: In game, sith and jedi alike use shi-cho, shien, soresu, juyo, and ataru forms. So I was wondering if sith have the exact same forms as the Jedi canonically? or if thats just something BW did to make it easier to code?

Lurking on all these threads have been really interesting, I never really knew much about the lightsaber forms until now But I did think of one question: In game, sith and jedi alike use shi-cho, shien, soresu, juyo, and ataru forms. So I was wondering if sith have the exact same forms as the Jedi canonically? or if thats just something BW did to make it easier to code?

 

Sith have the same forms, even though some details may vary. Form 1-6 were already in use when the Sith split away from the Jedi. So the exiled Jedi simply took the forms to Korriban and continued to use and train them. The origins of Form 7 are not quite clear, but it is possible that it was originally a Sith form. (Defectors or infiltrators might have introduced it into the Jedi Order.)

 

Edit: Now that I think about it, I'm not quite certain. Lightsabers weren't used in the Old Sith Empire and I don't know which forms can be practiced with Sith swords. The Sith obtained lightsaber technology within the last 1300 years and somehow they also started to practiced the same forms as the Jedi. Maybe the galaxy was for more connected than we think.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Maaruin

Ok guys, I wanted to give an update on the next thread. I have a recording of Mace Windu talking about Vaapad. The only problem is, he goes on for a long time. Very long time. And I had planned on putting Jar'Kai in the same thread. So I have some options for you all to choose from...

 

1. Would you like me to just do Vaapad and put the whole recording and have Jar'Kai in a seperate thread?

2. An excerpt of the recording with discussion on Vaapad?

3. No recording and just discussion on Vaapad and Jar'Kai

4. Option 3, but no Jar'Kai

5. Option 2 with Jar'Kai.

 

Up to you guys!

Ok guys, I wanted to give an update on the next thread. I have a recording of Mace Windu talking about Vaapad. The only problem is, he goes on for a long time. Very long time. And I had planned on putting Jar'Kai in the same thread. So I have some options for you all to choose from...

 

1. Would you like me to just do Vaapad and put the whole recording and have Jar'Kai in a seperate thread?

2. An excerpt of the recording with discussion on Vaapad?

3. No recording and just discussion on Vaapad and Jar'Kai

4. Option 3, but no Jar'Kai

5. Option 2 with Jar'Kai.

 

Up to you guys!

 

My vote is # 3

Ok guys, I wanted to give an update on the next thread. I have a recording of Mace Windu talking about Vaapad. The only problem is, he goes on for a long time. Very long time. And I had planned on putting Jar'Kai in the same thread. So I have some options for you all to choose from...

 

1. Would you like me to just do Vaapad and put the whole recording and have Jar'Kai in a seperate thread?

2. An excerpt of the recording with discussion on Vaapad?

3. No recording and just discussion on Vaapad and Jar'Kai

4. Option 3, but no Jar'Kai

5. Option 2 with Jar'Kai.

 

Up to you guys!

 

I vote for option 2.

Option 2

#2. highlight the main parts then have a separate thread on Jer'Kai. considering i consider it a completely separate form that should of had it's own number to begin with.