So, yeah.

I think they could do this in a way that makes subscribers happy while still making money from the cartel market.

Could.

But without knowing exactly how it will all work, it's hard for me to say. Would it be a thing where it basically brings the character creation screen back up, or will it be a totally different interface, a place you can actually go to? Would they sell "recustomization tokens" that you could redeem at these places?

If there were different levels of tokens that they sold that did different levels of customization, they could do something like have certain kinds of tokens available from the security key vendor, the CE/VIP vendors. For just the more basic things. Then for more complex things like body shape, tattoos, scars, gender/species change, those could be CM exclusives.

I'm just trying to think of ideas here

Or like I said before, give subscribers some ways to *earn* ccs in game (beyond the achievements), even if small amounts.

If that was the case they wouldve already stated it, as it stands this is a PR nightmare for them and stating such a thing would have cleared the air. Instead they gave another reply justifying their choice

 

No, their current aim is to charge or else they wouldve said so to avoid these threads

You dont know that.

You've made a unique point here I think. The CM hasn't really before offered an exclusive feature. This is mildly concerning to me. If, say, pazaak(I actaully prefer sabacc) or swoop racing are considered non-game impacting features, they could potentially be implemented through the CM. Though even if they did so, it would not be enough to make me quit, I would view such a decision very negatively.

This is something that I harped on quite a bit back when the free-to-play model was first announced. In order to be a well-received and well-used system, the Cartel Market needs to be a supplemental system and not the focus of the game. It should compliment gameplay, provide an alternative method for unlocking certain things, but as soon as exclusive content comes to it, that does not bode well for the reception and longevity of such a system.

For example, I play MMOs with a decent number of people. We simply don't LotRO because it has integrated itself so tightly with it's in-game store. Content that was available in the core game at release is no longer available, even as a subscriber, because everything has been partitioned and gated by their store. So we don't bother, even though it is still my personal favourite MMO. I don't play it simply because the focus of the game is unlocking through the store rather than through the game. And as a requirement, not as an alternative.

SW:TOR is showing early signs of heading down that path.

All I'm saying is that the GTN nor the complimentary coins should ever be used as an excuse to allow the core game to starve. Precious little isn't earmarked for the CM, these days. It has become a focal point of the game because of justifications like these instead of a supplemental system.

I think we have yet to see the promised dividends because of content lead times and integration time regarding the hiring of new employees(pretty much the only resource increase that will substantially change a game development team's rate of progress).

The CM is obviously getting quite a lot of resources, but so far its been things that can be done rather quickly(lots and lots of reskins and duplicate items). Creating a few dozen items will always be faster and easier than creating a new operation or warzone.

I think we'll only really have a clear view on where the game is going a few months after RoTHC. With the news largely being centered around the expac, the team hasn't given us as much knowledge about future content as we are used to(usually we know 6-8 months in advance, examples being heroic space missions, every operation thus far, Cathar, Makeb itself, HK-51 Hypergates, etc.). Whereas post RoTHC, we don't have the foggiest idea what 2.1 will be.

The thing you're failing to take into account is that, for the most part and certainly recently, cartel items are created for the cartel market by a dedicated team who makes things for it. The team is funded by sales of cartel market items. It's doubtful we would be getting as many new vanity items if they weren't being purchased with real money.

You act as if that's a good thing. Why shouldn't some, or even the majority, of these resources be used to strengthen the core game instead of more simplistic cash-grabs?

You act as if that's a good thing. Why shouldn't some, or even the majority, of these resources be used to strengthen the core game instead of more simplistic cash-grabs?

Because they weren't making enough from subs to keep those people employed. Perhaps you weren't here during the massive round of layoffs before the game went F2P.

You dont know that.

Having worked as a Community manager myself, yes I do and if Im wrong they have by far the worst PR manager ever

SW:TOR is showing early signs of heading down that path.

Concerning, but not enough to make me give up on the game. The devs have shown a willingness to acknowledge problems with specific CM items, like the +41 crystals and the space mission equipment, and have even addressed the former by equalizing end game crystals as we move forward, as well as mentioning desire to divide crystals into cosmetic and statted. I believe if we point out something that can be considered truly objectionable(even being a feature unique to the CM barbershop fees of this sort exist in enough other MMOs to be palatable to the player base), they will fix it.

Because they weren't making enough from subs to keep those people employed. Perhaps you weren't here during the massive round of layoffs before the game went F2P.

Perhaps you werent there when they said the packs sold way better than they expected

I think we have yet to see the promised dividends because of content lead times and integration time regarding the hiring of new employees(pretty much the only resource increase that will substantially change a game development team's rate of progress).

 

The CM is obviously getting quite a lot of resources, but so far its been things that can be done rather quickly(lots and lots of reskins and duplicate items). Creating a few dozen items will always be faster and easier than creating a new operation or warzone.

 

I think we'll only really have a clear view on where the game is going a few months after RoTHC. With the news largely being centered around the expac, the team hasn't given us as much knowledge about future content as we are used to(usually we know 6-8 months in advance, examples being heroic space missions, every operation thus far, Cathar, Makeb itself, HK-51 Hypergates, etc.). Whereas post RoTHC, we don't have the foggiest idea what 2.1 will be.

Which is precisely why I'm still here, ranting away. For me, I've had many "wait-and-see" issues with SW:TOR. Most, I've never heard about again after they were first spoken of. A few I've seen go back to the "wall of crazy" after we were told they were in active development. A few have actually made it into the game. But, I'm simply waiting on too much to justify playing if I'm not seeing evidence of progress.

SW:G was a game that a lot of people played because of what they saw in it - people wanted it to be something better, as did the developers. Current perceptions of it are very coloured by that: people remember what they wanted the game to be, rather than what it was. The difference is SW:G had a great community to keep players around and engaged. Sadly, modern MMOs such as SW:TOR do not. And I refuse to play another game based on its potential alone.

Personally, my key issue is additional species. I need to see Cathar, and I need to see what comes afterwards. If I see little hope for expansion in this area, my interest in other areas of the game will wither. So I'll see what 2.1 holds.

Perhaps you werent there when they said the packs sold way better than they expected

They also had way more starting subs and box sales than they expected. Then they opened up more servers to accomodate. I would not be surprised if some of the people making funding allocation decisions are more wary of judging TOR based on its short term results.

Perhaps you werent there when they said the packs sold way better than they expected

And? Now you're whining about them being successful at their jobs?

They're also hiring:

https://performancemanager4.successfactors.com/sfcareer/jobreqcareer?jobId=15786&company=EA

Concerning, but not enough to make me give up on the game. The devs have shown a willingness to acknowledge problems with specific CM items, like the +41 crystals and the space mission equipment, and have even addressed the former by equalizing end game crystals as we move forward, as well as mentioning desire to divide crystals into cosmetic and statted. I believe if we point out something that can be considered truly objectionable(even being a feature unique to the CM barbershop fees of this sort exist in enough other MMOs to be palatable to the player base), they will fix it.

Well, on this topic specifically, I believe the developers need to make a clear difference between a character recustomization and a barber shop. They are very different systems in the MMO world, but people in this thread seem to be mixing them up. Mostly because SW:TOR has one and not the other.

You act as if that's a good thing. Why shouldn't some, or even the majority, of these resources be used to strengthen the core game instead of more simplistic cash-grabs?

Because the people are just artists hired to make fluff in the store? If if were actual coders that are responsible for making missions and actual game-play elements, you would have an argument.

If or when we see those elements going into the shop, I'll be out the door in a flash, but until that happens, I will not join the choir of whingers making slippery slope arguments that infest these forums daily.

Because they weren't making enough from subs to keep those people employed. Perhaps you weren't here during the massive round of layoffs before the game went F2P.

Been here since Oct. 2008. :)The Cartel Market needs to supplement the core game. If they're not putting this money back into the core game, the Cartel Market ultimately becomes pointless as it is an exercise in itself.

Because the people are just artists hired to make fluff in the store? If if were actual coders that are responsible for making missions and actual game-play elements, you would have an argument.

If or when we see those elements going into the shop, I'll be out the door in a flash, but until that happens, I will not join the choir of whingers making slippery slope arguments that infest these forums daily.

I said resources, not people. It would be asinine to suggest that artists code.

Because the people are just artists hired to make fluff in the store? If if were actual coders that are responsible for making missions and actual game-play elements, you would have an argument.

If or when we see those elements going into the shop, I'll be out the door in a flash, but until that happens, I will not join the choir of whingers making slippery slope arguments that infest these forums daily.

Still, that is one whole team of paid employees dedicated entirely to creating Cartel Market content....so these guys are bringing in money for the game, which is good....on the other hand, money is going back into paying this team to make this content. My optimistic side believes we'll see increased income benefit everyone in the long run. My pessimistic side believes the more money the cartel market makes, the more the budget gets allocated to the Cartel Market, and less to the core game features. Only time will tell.

Been here since Oct. 2008. :)The Cartel Market needs to supplement the core game. If they're not putting this money back into the core game, the Cartel Market ultimately becomes pointless as it is an exercise in itself.

I agree there. I'm also anxious to see what they have planned post expansion. Lead times on their content are likely quite long, it's only been 4 months since FTP launch and I'm sure budgets weren't allocated right away. As with all MMOs I'll keep playing until I'm not having fun anymore.

I really liked AoC and played it for a couple of years but eventually content was taking months to come out and I just grew tired of waiting. I'm not seeing any signs of that with SWTOR yet.

They already said Cathar was only going to be on the CM and a barber shop is NOT basic content. It should be on the market. Don't like what your characters look like, pay or roll a new one. I have rolled several new characters until I was happy with what I got.

A barbershop is definintly BASIC CONTENT,otherwise known as a QUALITY OF LIFE FEATURE!

As subs we should get the entire experiance with our sub and FTP players should have to use cartel coins to pick and choose what they would like which is the whole point of FTP.

This is just more rediculious nonsense that would only happen in FTP games.Bottom line is if 75% of new additions to the game are gonna be CC purchases than they need to give subs more coins per month,as it sits now i have 2000 coins i refuse to even spend because it takes me months to even save up to purchase the couple things i actually like on the market.

Don't even get me started how wrong it is that everyone even subs is gonna have to purchase the "cathar" and this is coming from someone who has no interest in them.

this has nickle and dime EVERYONE all over it!

Bioware's idea of what a sub is entitled to is simply "whatever you had right up to the day before SWTOR went F2P"

 

This game will continue to get worse and worse as it progressively nickle and dimes subs more and more.

totally agree and it will continue until the players us come together and agree that this isnt ok,I'm all for the cartel market making them money to support the game we all enjoy but certain things should be off limits.

I swear they refuse to even acknowledge other successful Sub and FTP mmo's when deciding what should be in a cash shop and what should not.

It's almost at the point that as subs we need to ask why are we even subbing anymore if this is how it is and how it will continue to be

Um, that is an incomplete truth.

 

Every game that has an in-game customization shop charges in-game currency for making changes.

THEY ONLY CHARGE RMT STORE MONEY FOR NEW OPTIONS FOR YOU TO CHOOSE FROM.

 

Except AION for example. So its not every game.

I can spent as much time on character creation as I want, sooner or later I will eventually grow tired of my character's looks (usually hair style and sometimes hair colour).

Sure I can reroll, but rerolling all the time is not the answer. Eventually, I will stop playing if I keep rerolling every single character.

I don't want this feature available only through cartel market, these costs would ultimately add up.

I understand that race changes, server transfers and name changes will be features to pay for. However, paying my monthly sub, I'd expect hair style changes and new races to be free for subscribers.

Even if the pricing considers the monthly grant, how many of my characters will I be able to change with it per month? Leaving me with how many coins for anything else?

I am not too greedy, I am willing to buy additional coins on top of my subscription. But only if I feel it's worth it. More and more I get the feeling it isn't. Because I don't feel my subscription is appreciated in any way and the cash shop is only growing worse.

I grow tired of all the new announcements that only seem to show how much you care about the cartel market and not about subscribers. I love the game but I despise the path you seem to take.