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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones


Monoth

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BW will not respond they stopped reading at page 2.

 

Why didn't we?

 

We are all posting in this thread because it's such a fun and entertaining pasttime. It doesn't concern valid problems at all. The current state of PvP is fine as it is. All solo players are Recruit-geared, asocial freaks and noob idiots who need to L2P and never call out incs. All premaders are lifeless basement-dwellers who grasp at every unfair advantage to show off their epeen to compensate for their pathetic real life. We are hoping that all F2P players will have a dreadful experience and leave as soon as possible. Right?

 

No. This thread is discussing a very valid problem with a multitude of solutions, many of which are very well worth considering. I agree, there are some pages of unavoidable trolling but on most you'll find well-constructed, carefully-organized and well-thought out ideas on how to improve the current state of PvP that Bioware would do damn well to read.

Edited by CommanderKeeva
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All the "nerf this" and "buff that", premade vs pug, etc. threads aren't addressing the real problem with the warzones in that certain abilities are far too weighted.

 

Like "Pull" in Huttball. Pull people into an instant death hazard, pull people away from the endzone or into it. It's far too weighted for that particular gametype. That same class can also Dash into the endzone, knockback away from the endzone and pile on the stuns with the best of them. One class is incredibly weighted compared to the others.

 

Look at the Warrior in comparison. If someone uses knockback or pull you have 1 chance to make it out of the pit. That is if somone isn't in "cover" or even range. Plus, the likelyhood of being knocked back down basically makes you left for dead, as you are a sitting duck in the pit for ranged attack. And of course, 4 seconds of camouflage won't get you far enough away or conceal you long enough to cooldown your charge. While you take massive damage, you're also slowed, you can't do jack but waste medpacs or let yourself die.

 

Inquistors are basically built for success, while Warriors are set up for failure. Just by the pure design of the objectives and layout of the map. Sure some players are geared better or know their classes, but the best inquitor will always win against the best warrior because of the inherent ability disadvantage.

 

Even the node capture games lean towards ranged DPS and stealthers. The Warzones are just poorly designed for balance.

Edited by QuietGoneJinn
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It doesn't concern valid problems at all.

 

Agreed.

 

The current state of PvP is fine as it is.

 

Agreed.

 

All solo players are Recruit-geared, asocial freaks and noob idiots who need to L2P and never call out incs.

 

Disagreed. That's not Bioware's fault, and is not up to Bioware to fix. It is a L2P issue. I solo queue all the time. I don't swap to Recruit gear, stop talking to people, and stop calling out incs when I do it.

 

All premaders are lifeless basement-dwellers who grasp at every unfair advantage to show off their epeen to compensate for their pathetic real life.

 

Disagreed. We are Playing to Win. Their problem is they are Playing to Lose. It seems that you yourself are the one trying to show off your epeen to compensate for your pathetic real life, by attempting to become Sith Jesus to these people. You cannot save them from themselves. They do not WANT to be saved.

 

We are hoping that all F2P players will have a dreadful experience and leave as soon as possible. Right?

 

Wrong. I'm hoping they stay long enough to get their cheap War Hero gear, then realize that the core of the issue is that they simply need to stop making excuses and IMPROVE THEMSELVES. I hope they learn to play the objectives, join a teamspeak server, and begin forming premades of their own.

 

Society today has such a victimization mentality epidemic. No one is responsible for themselves anymore. There is always an excuse. Even if Bioware changed everything to suit your whims, you would find other excuses, other things to complain about.

 

Also: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/

 

No. This thread is discussing a very valid problem with a multitude of solutions, many of which are very well worth considering.

 

Disagree. Many of the "solutions" in this thread would create other problems.

 

I agree, there are some pages of unavoidable trolling but on most you'll find well-constructed, carefully-organized and well-thought out ideas on how to improve the current state of PvP that Bioware would do damn well to read.

 

Agree, if only so that Bioware learns what NOT to do.

 

Did I do this right?

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About this time last year, I had two fulls sets of Rakata gear, and the epic mount from Karaga's Palace.

 

People I didn't even know called me an elitist a-hole, for no other reason than the fact that I had two fulls sets of Rakata gear, and the epic mount from Karaga's Palace.

 

Karaga, and his BFF Soa, did not give me that stuff for free. It took commitment of both time and effort, and a willingness to learn how to achieve victory.

 

PvP really is no different in that respect. People are complaining because they lack the commitment and the willingness to learn.

 

Since we are drawing a PvE parallel here, I'll share an amusing one I just thought of. You may say that PvE is easier because the mobs are too stupid to attack the healers. Again, just like in PvP!

 

wait what

Edited by Arlanon
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About this time last year, I had two fulls sets of Rakata gear, and the epic mount from Karaga's Palace.

 

People I didn't even know called me an elitist a-hole, for no other reason than the fact that I had two fulls sets of Rakata gear, and the epic mount from Karaga's Palace.

 

Karaga, and his BFF Soa, did not give me that stuff for free. It took commitment of both time and effort, and a willingness to learn how to achieve victory.

 

PvP really is no different in that respect. People are complaining because they lack the commitment and the willingness to learn.

 

Since we are drawing a PvE parallel here, I'll share an amusing one I just thought of. You may say that PvE is easier because the mobs are too stupid to attack the healers. Again, just like in PvP!

 

wait what

 

Comparing PvE and PvP is pretty fruitless, because they're too different. You don't leap straight in to TFB in your Tionese/Columi you got from flashpoints and expect to do anything. So you pick to go EV or KP first, and gear up against appropriate opponents.

 

I'd imagine that if PvP players had the luxury of always playing against appropriate enemies, most of these complaints wouldn't exist. But they don't, so this is a pretty poor analogy.

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Comparing PvE and PvP is pretty fruitless, because they're too different. You don't leap straight in to TFB in your Tionese/Columi you got from flashpoints and expect to do anything. So you pick to go EV or KP first, and gear up against appropriate opponents.

 

I'd imagine that if PvP players had the luxury of always playing against appropriate enemies, most of these complaints wouldn't exist. But they don't, so this is a pretty poor analogy.

 

Aha, you fell into my trap. Even in full Rakata gear, me vs Soa is not an "appropriate opponent". In order to defeat Soa, I must join a PREMADE TEAM to take him down. This premade team must work together and coordinate their efforts in order to succeed.

 

PvP is no different there. I challenge you to prove otherwise. You are arguing simply for the sake of arguing.

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I don't understand some of you people. I understand the bad premaders and/or the horrible irl premaders because they obviously have a bias towards keeping it as is, however if you are a good premader and don't live in a basement then I would think you would have to be bored most matches with the current system.

 

We need at least some bandaid matchmaking fix with mixed faction teams allowed for this game to keep a healthy pvp population and especially if we want it to grow. This should be obvious. The average player is obviously not happy and the average good premader (which some of you claim to be) should be bored out of his or her mind most days.

 

As I have said before, as long as my weekly is done, I enjoy lots of pug v premade matches because it really makes you play your best when there is no chance of winning and makes you improve your situational awareness since you can be stun-killed in seconds if you become the premade's tab target. So I don't have a major problem with the current system (except I would enjoy premading if there was a matching system) but it is blatantly obvious to me that the current system is flawed and that the pvp population won't stay healthy longterm if pvp stays as is.

Edited by DarthRaika
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You're not asking to be coddled? Yet asking for -less- competition is exactly that. Either you take less rewards, or you take more (potential) competition.

 

No before anyone cries, I still think better matchmaking and cross server should be implemented (without reducing rewards or anything.) I do believe a more level playfield is good for a community, another reason I'm against the gear gap and glad to hear 1.6 is effectively going to remove it.

 

However, everyone should either take the steps to make themselves more competitive, or accept the consquences of their choices, which is not what's happening. Yes, there is a problem, yes there are some system changes (atleast I feel they are needed) that are needed, but it doesn't change the fact that page after page, we've watched people blame, insult, etc... everyone but themselves for others being better, for using tools to excell, and then using such lame excuses to do -worse- back to them than what's being "done" to you.

lol @ being coddled. I'm verrrry far from the best on my server. however, I wreck the vast majority of ppl that I face, and I point and laugh at them while they try to kill my healer. I don't need to be coddled. tyvm.

 

and I have great guildies who I would happily 4-man vs any other 4-man on the server. it would be competitive. however, the rated Qs are dead. my guild cannot field an 8-man (time constraints for various players), and in general, regular WZs are one-sided. which means I do them for the daily/weekly and then log off. wow. fun. no. I'd rather take the guildies that are on, divide them into even teams and have some fun (which you can only do in rated). now iunno what's up your rear end or how you think this defies the spirit of competition, but I think it pretty clearly facilitates competition on an otherwise dead server. and if that means every once in a while that a vastly superior rated team Qs at the same time and finds itself in an empty WZ, hey, I'm not going to lose hours of sleep at night.

 

regarding the solo Qs: grow up? me? you need to seriously re-evaluate your idea of maturity. here, let me help: why do you care so much if poor players get their sandbox and play against other poor players in their solo Q? who is that going to hurt? really...me grow up? you grow up. you'll get better matches in the "group" Q cuz the baddies and the undergeared/scared players won't use it, but any solo Qer who wants to still can. so what's up? what's your beef? it's like you're upset because your little sibling got his way and mommy bought her that extra barbie doll. who the hell cares? why does that ruin christmas for you? me grow up? look in the mirror.

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Aha, you fell into my trap. Even in full Rakata gear, me vs Soa is not an "appropriate opponent". In order to defeat Soa, I must join a PREMADE TEAM to take him down. This premade team must work together and coordinate their efforts in order to succeed.

 

PvP is no different there. I challenge you to prove otherwise. You are arguing simply for the sake of arguing.

 

However you get to select your TEAM before running the Op while in PVP pugs its just whomever gets tossed together. Queing for EV in GF doesn't just lump a team of 8 DPS'ers and expect you to take out the Ops, but queing for PvP as a pug DOES expect you to be able to take out a skilled premade with 8 random DPS'ers...

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However you get to select your TEAM before running the Op while in PVP pugs its just whomever gets tossed together. Queing for EV in GF doesn't just lump a team of 8 DPS'ers and expect you to take out the Ops, but queing for PvP as a pug DOES expect you to be able to take out a skilled premade with 8 random DPS'ers...

 

And what hinders YOU from queuing up for pvp with some decent guys? I don't get it. I simply don't.

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<.< Wth?

 

Is it just me, or did like... a half a page of posts just vanish.

 

Eh... to recap what I said... lemme see... I apologized to Foxy for my last few posts lacking general respect for them... then I mentioned that if we got back on topic, the pro's of proper matchmaking outweigh a solo queue option, and anything involving "moral" concerns (namely voiced by me) is irrelevant in that 1 fact.

 

Then I agreed with Ashaari (or however their name is spelled) that 4-man option for ranked would be awesome, and of the two ideas (4-man for ranked or solo-only normal queue, the 4-man ranked would probably help more.)

 

And as usual, I ignored Tridus, whom has very little to offer and loves to bring up quotes out of context... kinda like a sleazy politician. Imagine that...

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Me personally? Yes I love being a overpowered bastard with my teammates against fresh 50's. It's like putting a NFL team against a high school football team.

 

It's funny how you quickly dismiss and out right refuse to believe that the poster I quoted doesn't represent the majority of what's going on in normal warzones. Then again you are biased and can't see the other side, just from your post alone.

 

While it's fun for me and my buddies(while also boring after a while) to stomp on these fresh 50's, they probably won't come back due to my actions and other premades actions.

 

So I wonder what it is they plan on "doing" after something like that.

 

Chances are they aren't gonna queue up again for a while. Hence longer queue times.

 

As aforementioned numerous times in numerous threads, the situation described in the post you originally quoted can happen regardless of solo queue or not. My ability to solo 3 terrible players in recruit gear at a node has no bearing on my team and will continue to happen (more often in fact) in a solo queue. Therefore your reply still does not reflect an imbalance between PUGs and premades.

 

I am not biased and will hear arguments contrary to my position, but only if those arguments are relevant to the topic at hand. I will be in support of any change that makes the game fairer and more enjoyable for EVERYONE. If it does not apply to everyone, then a compromise must be found that will satisfy as many people as possible, not one that gives the ideal solution to one group and completely alienates another.

 

While population may be an issue in separating queues, the bigger problem is the logistics of making a team with a pool of groups with varying sizes. Take out the individuals and we have to get exactly 8 on a side using 2's, 3's, and 4's bearing in mind that groups on different factions cannot be mixed. The queue times would be atrocious.

 

Many of the issues that are attributed to premades would not be resolved by a solo queue. You will still have warzones where one team has a healer and the other doesn't. You will still have warzones where one team has more skilled players than the other. You will still have warzones where one team has better gear than the other. You will still have warzones where one team focuses on appropriate targets and one does not. You will still have warzones where one team has players willing to guard nodes and one does not.

 

In the case of this game, the compromise to both groups and individuals is that there is one queue available to anyone, but the maximum grouping is 4 in order to keep things balanced and avoid a true premade. From my perspective, I feel people are trying to find a way to separate casual players from what would be considered more competitive players and advocating for a solo queue as that solution.

 

My overall point in this particular post is this: No one would complain about playing against premades if the skill level was equal on both sides. If you lost a Novare Coast by 10% with lots of back and forth turret switching, you'd probably have a lot of fun and feel the teams were evenly matched. No one in the warzone has the same guild tag as anyone else, but you find out later on that 4 people on the other team were grouped. Was the warzone all the sudden not fun because of this? Did you have no shot at winning now because you found out they were grouped?

 

If your opinion of the warzone changes because you found out there was a group, then you are biased not me. (And I'm not implying that is the case, just stating that as fact)

 

TL;DR The problem isn't that people are playing together, it's that the skill level on both sides is not equal therefore a solo queue does not resolve the core issue.

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Problem:

You PuG and fail.

 

Solution (this is manyfold so try to keep up, ok?):

Make friends

Join a guild with PvP players (optional, but recommended)

Join a Vent/Mumble/Teamspeak/Skype/etc with guild or whoever you are in warzone with

Practice, study, duel, learn what works well, not only for your own class but for all classes

Coordinate assaults, always be mindful of the objectives

Be willing to identify your mistakes and learn from them

 

ALTERNATELY:

Come to the forums to QQ

 

Which will you choose? You're making Chibi Vader cry. :(

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And what hinders YOU from queuing up for pvp with some decent guys? I don't get it. I simply don't.

 

That isn't even related to the issue being discussed at this point. The issue is making sure your group of decent guys gets to play another group of decent guys. I mean come on after all you do want some kind of a challenge after you went to all that trouble to form your guild/group right?

 

:cool:

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Problem:

You PuG and fail.

 

Solution (this is manyfold so try to keep up, ok?):

Make friends

Join a guild with PvP players (optional, but recommended)

Join a Vent/Mumble/Teamspeak/Skype/etc with guild or whoever you are in warzone with

Practice, study, duel, learn what works well, not only for your own class but for all classes

Coordinate assaults, always be mindful of the objectives

Be willing to identify your mistakes and learn from them

 

ALTERNATELY:

Come to the forums to QQ

 

Which will you choose? You're making Chibi Vader cry. :(

 

Nice post

Commonsense seems to elude most here.

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Problem:

You PuG and fail.

 

Solution (this is manyfold so try to keep up, ok?):

Make friends

Join a guild with PvP players (optional, but recommended)

Join a Vent/Mumble/Teamspeak/Skype/etc with guild or whoever you are in warzone with

Practice, study, duel, learn what works well, not only for your own class but for all classes

Coordinate assaults, always be mindful of the objectives

Be willing to identify your mistakes and learn from them

 

ALTERNATELY:

Come to the forums to QQ

 

Which will you choose? You're making Chibi Vader cry. :(

 

 

Problem:

You hide in a PreMade to farm newb 50's, pretend that means you're good, and are scared to face other PreMades.

 

Solution (this is obvious, so try to ignore it and pretend it's not the case, ok?):

 

Come to the forums to QQ lobby against what would enact real competition in the form of a solo vs group X-server system.

 

 

:eek:

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Problem:

You hide in a PreMade to farm newb 50's, pretend that means you're good, and are scared to face other PreMades.

 

Solution (this is obvious, so try to ignore it and pretend it's not the case, ok?):

 

Come to the forums to QQ lobby against what would enact real competition in the form of a solo vs group X-server system.

 

 

:eek:

 

How does a random team of 8 vs another random team of 8 equal real competition? Most know that real competition is found in doing rateds and when you do not have enough people on or no other teams are queuing then they run regular warzones.

Edited by cycao
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As aforementioned numerous times in numerous threads, the situation described in the post you originally quoted can happen regardless of solo queue or not. My ability to solo 3 terrible players in recruit gear at a node has no bearing on my team and will continue to happen (more often in fact) in a solo queue. Therefore your reply still does not reflect an imbalance between PUGs and premades.

 

I am not biased and will hear arguments contrary to my position, but only if those arguments are relevant to the topic at hand. I will be in support of any change that makes the game fairer and more enjoyable for EVERYONE. If it does not apply to everyone, then a compromise must be found that will satisfy as many people as possible, not one that gives the ideal solution to one group and completely alienates another.

 

While population may be an issue in separating queues, the bigger problem is the logistics of making a team with a pool of groups with varying sizes. Take out the individuals and we have to get exactly 8 on a side using 2's, 3's, and 4's bearing in mind that groups on different factions cannot be mixed. The queue times would be atrocious.

 

Many of the issues that are attributed to premades would not be resolved by a solo queue. You will still have warzones where one team has a healer and the other doesn't. You will still have warzones where one team has more skilled players than the other. You will still have warzones where one team has better gear than the other. You will still have warzones where one team focuses on appropriate targets and one does not. You will still have warzones where one team has players willing to guard nodes and one does not.

 

In the case of this game, the compromise to both groups and individuals is that there is one queue available to anyone, but the maximum grouping is 4 in order to keep things balanced and avoid a true premade. From my perspective, I feel people are trying to find a way to separate casual players from what would be considered more competitive players and advocating for a solo queue as that solution.

 

My overall point in this particular post is this: No one would complain about playing against premades if the skill level was equal on both sides. If you lost a Novare Coast by 10% with lots of back and forth turret switching, you'd probably have a lot of fun and feel the teams were evenly matched. No one in the warzone has the same guild tag as anyone else, but you find out later on that 4 people on the other team were grouped. Was the warzone all the sudden not fun because of this? Did you have no shot at winning now because you found out they were grouped?

 

If your opinion of the warzone changes because you found out there was a group, then you are biased not me. (And I'm not implying that is the case, just stating that as fact)

 

TL;DR The problem isn't that people are playing together, it's that the skill level on both sides is not equal therefore a solo queue does not resolve the core issue.

 

I completley agree. If they seperate the queues people will just complain they are losing to better geared solo players and want a seperate brackets for valor etc, it will never end, there will always be winners and losers and there will always be more people who lose than win. This is the nature of pvp of games of this type.

 

I still don't see why a feature that has been in since the start of the game, that should encourage new players to form small groups of 4 of their own should be removed just because there are people that refuse point blank to help themselves, if people insist on making life hard for themselves by only solo queing and reducing their chances to win then that is entirely their own problem, dont make it mine ty.

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