KeyboardNinja Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Hey folks, I spoke to designers Toby McCall and Jesse Sky and this is what they had to say about this: When Nightmare Mode was released, Overload had no activation time, but its ballistic component was not working (which meant Overload could be completely ignored). We corrected this in the patch. In Nightmare Mode, the optimal path will always appear on either the left or the right wall, so a wall will always be available for tanking the demolitions probes. Very interesting. While I'm absolutely grateful for the efforts to make this fight harder and more interesting (at least for the non-solver), there are some problems with the way this was done. Specifically, putting the optimal path on *either* the left or the right wall is problematic because you need to commit to one side or another almost immediately. This is particularly true of the right wall, since it is one square longer than the left. If you get unlucky and commit to the wrong side, there's no viable way to backtrack in time to make the enrage. So, the best we can do is just reveal left and right sides as well as the second square in the respective files and make a guess based on which ones turned up green. What I think would be really nice to see would be if the optimal path were always on the left, but not necessarily a straight line. It is actually possible to defuse *one* mine that is not against the wall, so long as it connects to a chain of greens which lead back to the wall with no defusal. This would be interesting, since it would force the solvers to branch out, and also compel those in the minefield to move quickly across multiple squares to the defusal target, following a probe kill (which of course, must be against the wall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Hey folks, I spoke to designers Toby McCall and Jesse Sky and this is what they had to say about this: When Nightmare Mode was released, Overload had no activation time, but its ballistic component was not working (which meant Overload could be completely ignored). We corrected this in the patch. In Nightmare Mode, the optimal path will always appear on either the left or the right wall, so a wall will always be available for tanking the demolitions probes. So the intended change is to no longer make this boss a "puzzle" boss. There's no more reason to try and find a solution. Seriously? Plus, as the previous poster pointed out, if it's "either left or right" what guarantees that we will know at the beginning and not halfway through the minefield when it's too late to turn back? If the solution is "if left is green at first square, then it's left, if right is green at first square, it's right" then that would be doable... however, if you an't tell which path to take from the very beginning... then this is just stupid. Basically picking the wrong door w/out any hint as to which way to pick would be a stupid mechanic. I seriously hope you guys put that much thought into it... Edited December 6, 2012 by Lostpenguins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 so no cast time is working as intended. think people are very unhappy with the fact that we are losing a mechanic that requires player response and turning this into another tanking/positioning mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 so no cast time is working as intended. think people are very unhappy with the fact that we are losing a mechanic that requires player response and turning this into another tanking/positioning mechanic. They're probably not going to respond anymore to this post as it seems pretty obvious that this is a bug. Just like the puzzle boss in EV where you had to solve the pillars in a specific order for no reason whatsoever. Finally BW came out and said something like, "Oops... we didn't mean that, but, hey, it's an extra level of depth to the puzzle." Seriously?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaqen Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 so no cast time is working as intended. think people are very unhappy with the fact that we are losing a mechanic that requires player response and turning this into another tanking/positioning mechanic. I agree, it is still easier then HM, mechanic wise. Tank positioning mechanics are the oldest and simplest mechanics that can be used in a raid, and overall are not worthy of a nightmare label. There are multiple mechanics in this fight that could have been buffed up to make this fight more of a challenge, but for some reasons BW did the opposite. To be honest the majority of NIM EC is very disappointing with the added diffculty mainly lying within higher health pools on mobs, and greater amount of damage being done Even Kephess is pretty much the same fight, except you have to deal with 2 warriors with shields instead of one in the second phase... you still use the same tactics for the first and third phase, and for Kephess himself even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 path will always appear on either the left or the right wall, so a wall will always be available for tanking the demolitions probes. As my guildy pointed out... if you make the solution "all right" then it's physically impossible to get to the console unless the square in front of it (i.e. the 3rd column on the right, 2nd most right to right wall) is green. If it isn't and you take that into account for your "Working as intended" mechanics... then that will be an extra square to solve... meaning enrage issues will be harder on the right. Seriously BW... this is just terrible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kil-Gorbane Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Simple fix: make the knock back shorter than the diagonal length of a green box but longer than the side. Pros: - This change makes the mechanic harder because it would require the raid group to position themselves properly (dps/healers in one corner and the boss nearly on top of them - tank nearby but on the front side of boss) - Keeps the entire minefield in play as a puzzle Or, if they really wanted to mix things up, make it conditional: Overload has a cast bar - if interrupted it knocks back the front 270 cone, if not interrupted it will knock back the back 270 cone. (This would also require the knock back to be shorter than the diagonal length) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docmal Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 This could very well be one of the dumbest things I've seen come out of an MMO design team. The person responsible for this mechanic design should have all of their work audited because they might end up being responsible for half of the idiotic things implemented in this game. This mechanic change is wrong on so many levels it's mind boggling. Most notably, it removes the puzzle aspect that the minefield was designed around and replaces it with a coin flip (left or right) for success or failure. Secondly it relies on the most overly used boss mechanic in the game, because lets face it, all tanks want to have their character and camera smashed against a wall and have a screen full of zoomed in boss crotch the entire fight. Sheesh... who thinks up this garbage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElitehunterDS Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 This could very well be one of the dumbest things I've seen come out of an MMO design team. The person responsible for this mechanic design should have all of their work audited because they might end up being responsible for half of the idiotic things implemented in this game. This mechanic change is wrong on so many levels it's mind boggling. Most notably, it removes the puzzle aspect that the minefield was designed around and replaces it with a coin flip (left or right) for success or failure. Secondly it relies on the most overly used boss mechanic in the game, because lets face it, all tanks want to have their character and camera smashed against a wall and have a screen full of zoomed in boss crotch the entire fight. Sheesh... who thinks up this garbage? Probe droid crotch? lol? You clearly have never done that fight so i dont know why you QQ. The fact that the encounter is still easy or easier than Hard mode is the worse issue out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rphebus Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Well if this is how things are going to be, I can't wait to see NiM TFB: Operator IX only casts rainbow color deletion protocol so anyone can cleanse it. Edited December 6, 2012 by rphebus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Probe droid crotch? lol? You clearly have never done that fight so i dont know why you QQ. The fact that the encounter is still easy or easier than Hard mode is the worse issue out of it. Not really? W/out interrupts you're forced to hug the wall. Can't really adjust when assassin droids start coming over cuz you're still stuck against the wall. I disagree that it's easier, but it's a dumb change, nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Dreselus Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Well if this is how things are going to be, I can't wait to see NiM TFB: Operator IX only casts rainbow color deletion protocol so anyone can cleanse it. LoL that fight is ****ed up already. Let's say a purple person get purple deletion. Now you have two options: 1. Let the other purple person run in and get rid of both the debuffs, meaning you have no left for the next time purple deletion happens. 2. Say goodbye to the first purple person as their own debuff will not protect them but at least you will have the second debuff ready for the next purple deletion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Probe droid crotch? lol? You clearly have never done that fight so i dont know why you QQ. The fact that the encounter is still easy or easier than Hard mode is the worse issue out of it. It doesn't make the encounter that much more difficult, but how on earth can you argue its easier than hard mode? The changes now are, you cannot interrupt the knockback, you have less space to work with, assassin droids cannot be CC'd/moved, and everything hits harder. What changes are you seeing that makes this easier than hard mode? That said, I agree with the poster you quoted, its a dumb change because it negates the puzzle aspect of the puzzle. Edited December 6, 2012 by wadecounty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docmal Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Probe droid crotch? lol? You clearly have never done that fight so i dont know why you QQ. The fact that the encounter is still easy or easier than Hard mode is the worse issue out of it. You clearly have the reading skills of a gradeschooler. I was also not claiming the fight was hard. While explaining my opinion that the new meachanic is lame, I was speaking in generalities when I pointed out that tanking boss fights where you plant your back is not fun anymore. Besides, probe droids have legs and therefor have a crotch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sankalp Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) LoL that fight is ****ed up already. Let's say a purple person get purple deletion. Now you have two options: 1. Let the other purple person run in and get rid of both the debuffs, meaning you have no left for the next time purple deletion happens. 2. Say goodbye to the first purple person as their own debuff will not protect them but at least you will have the second debuff ready for the next purple deletion. If you have yellow and are targeted by yellow(yellow is an example, can be any colour) you dont die. you basically shield yourself. Edited December 7, 2012 by sankalp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draloch Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 If you have yellow and are targeted by yellow(yellow is an example, can be any colour) you dont die. you basically shield yourself. I died to IX in phase 2 by getting a purple color deletion protocol (I had the purple bisector buff), so at least this week, you do die if you get your own color. It was hard mode IX and it was the only time that it happened. It ended up not affecting us too much. We raised me back up and still finished the fight fine, but it does seem to be a messy bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshmallow Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Very interesting. While I'm absolutely grateful for the efforts to make this fight harder and more interesting (at least for the non-solver), there are some problems with the way this was done. Specifically, putting the optimal path on *either* the left or the right wall is problematic because you need to commit to one side or another almost immediately. This is particularly true of the right wall, since it is one square longer than the left. If you get unlucky and commit to the wrong side, there's no viable way to backtrack in time to make the enrage. So, the best we can do is just reveal left and right sides as well as the second square in the respective files and make a guess based on which ones turned up green. What I think would be really nice to see would be if the optimal path were always on the left, but not necessarily a straight line. It is actually possible to defuse *one* mine that is not against the wall, so long as it connects to a chain of greens which lead back to the wall with no defusal. This would be interesting, since it would force the solvers to branch out, and also compel those in the minefield to move quickly across multiple squares to the defusal target, following a probe kill (which of course, must be against the wall). You can't go into the middle of the minesweeper with the new mechanic because of the fact that you can only have one green square up at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classicks Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) You can't go into the middle of the minesweeper with the new mechanic because of the fact that you can only have one green square up at a time. Unless they changed something with the patch Tuesday you actually can get 2 greens in a row, however the one you are on does return to red after the one ahead is defused. Edited December 7, 2012 by Classicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_gideon Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Mechanic not broken! Is feature! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudrin Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 My guild cleared him in HM last night and there was a cast bar for Overload however we did encounter a bug on the last row of mines where it wasnt showing up at all and turns out was green the whole time so we could have turned iff the mines and begun the fight but because of this we hit the enrage on the turrets. so just be cautious that this is a problem but idk if its an on going thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTbone Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 This fight is much easier now. We don't even have to worry about interrupts (the cleave is nice to interrupt, but not a deal breaker), and we don't even have to worry about finding the path. Somehow I don't think that making NM easier was the intent, though. It definitely feels like a broken mechanic more than trying to make the fight harder, but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjbm Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Hey folks, I spoke to designers Toby McCall and Jesse Sky and this is what they had to say about this: When Nightmare Mode was released, Overload had no activation time, but its ballistic component was not working (which meant Overload could be completely ignored). We corrected this in the patch. In Nightmare Mode, the optimal path will always appear on either the left or the right wall, so a wall will always be available for tanking the demolitions probes. If theres need for further proof that BW fired all their developers/programmers, this is it. Turning a bug into a "feature". gg bw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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