Because they're trying to placate PVPers after Nogate.

Now this thread is gaining steam. I like it.

I actually have a "relevant" question now...

Alex,

Since you guys are trying this approach to open the proverbial door to the community, how about you share some of the PVP team's ideas?

Awwww, are us carebears ruining the game for you man? I'm sorry bro.

 

Hang in there trooper.

You're not technically ruining the game...yet.

Again, I think NPCs are fine in world PvP, but they are 100% non-desirable by me in WZ PvP. We have fixed 8v8 teams...why the hell would you want NPCs? I believe their only value in PvP is to balance imbalances...they would serve zero purpose in a WZ environment.

Imbalance is what I want. There is no balance to the game anyways TUX, you know that.

What I'm hoping is that the imbalance added by NPC's will actually serve to balance what is currently imbalanced in classes. Sure, it could work badly in the other direction, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

See, the current issue with class balance is the variety of classes themselves. Devs are constantly trying to take grapes, oranges, bananas and apples and make them equally good. However, it will never be complete. Bananas peel faster than apples, but aren't as tasty as oranges or easy to pop into your mouth at once as a grape. Plus, a different person may actually peel an orange faster than a banana or chop up an apple in a way you never thought about before.

They don't just have to make the classes the same but try and make them work with every kind of play style and still be balanced. No, like any PVP in any game where classes and play styles are as different as they are here, there will never be balance, especially when the biggest imbalance in the game are the players themselves.

Hell, Vader brought balance to the force and it still didn't work.

So why not try and balance things in other ways? It's not like we're saying to shove NPC's into every warzone, just to try one with a few for once.

You're not technically ruining the game...yet.

...and we don't want to. We love this game, every bit as much as you do and we'll do whatever we can to see it survive. Dude, we don't want any of you guys to leave, we don't want anyone to leave. But we are also aware that if what currently exists isn't working, then try something new or if we already have enough of one thing, try something new.

You can already murder/death/kill to your heart's content in current warzones. why not try something brand new? Do you really want just another background to pew pew in? The same old thing? at least in each new FP or OP, we get new story, but in warzone, its just spawn and kill. What few mechanics exist are weak. There are people that think huttball sucks and some that think its the best warzones around.

All I'm suggesting is a new type of warzone, not just another huttball arena or capture the flag or deathmatch. I'm saying there are many more ways to do PVP that doesn't just involve killing. No, I'm not talking about Go-Fish or Monopoly which are bad straw man arguments, but PVP that involves a team being better rather than just players being a bunch of Rambos all the time.

...and we don't want to. We love this game, every bit as much as you do and we'll do whatever we can to see it survive. Dude, we don't want any of you guys to leave, we don't want anyone to leave. But we are also aware that if what currently exists isn't working, then try something new or if we already have enough of one thing, try something new.

 

You can already murder/death/kill to your heart's content in current warzones. why not try something brand new? Do you really want just another background to pew pew in? The same old thing? at least in each new FP or OP, we get new story, but in warzone, its just spawn and kill. What few mechanics exist are weak. There are people that think huttball sucks and some that think its the best warzones around.

 

All I'm suggesting is a new type of warzone, not just another huttball arena or capture the flag or deathmatch. I'm saying there are many more ways to do PVP that doesn't just involve killing. No, I'm not talking about Go-Fish or Monopoly which are bad straw man arguments, but PVP that involves a team being better rather than just players being a bunch of Rambos all the time.

I get exactly what you're saying and why. Here's exactly what I'm saying and why:

More PVEish stuff like NPC groups and bosses should not be in WZs. For the same reasons that PVP should not be in Ops and FPs. If there is to be a blend of the two it needs to be bifurcated from the main game types or incorporated into daily areas.

I (and those with the same frame of mind) want to compete directly with and against each other. An NPC would be nothing but a giant turd in the punchbowl. Tell me, how much would retentive Op types enjoy their run if me and a few others dropped in and started wiping their group? You want PVE in PVP? I want PVP in instanced PVE, it's only fair.

ok, new idea:

Prison Break!!

The Empire has sent a high skill team to Belsavis to free an important Imperial prisoner. Intel has leaked and now the Republic has dispatched a team of their own to guard this prisoner long enough for a prison transport to arrive (from hte other side of the planet) and transfer the prisoner to a more secure location.

And alternatively after the first round: The Empire has located the prisoner but needs to guard him long enough for the fallback shuttle to break through Belsavis defenses. The Empire keeps the prisoner behind the cell forcefield to keep him safe.

The scenario could also likewise be altered to be a same faction training exercise

Ok here is how this would work: 2 8v8 teams, one team is composed of defenders, the other of attackers for the first round. The round lasts 12 minutes, long enough for the defenders shuttle or transport to arrive for them to win IF THEY KEEP THE PRISONER. The teams engage in front of a prison cell near the attackers landing zone. First to break out the prisoner the team must fire a bazooka at the force field generator over a standard 8 second cast. But its not that easy. Once the cast is successful, the prisoner starts following a random attacker who will be marked by a buff and a light shining like what you see on the ball carrier in Huttball. This random attacker is now the VIP and must be protected long enough for him to get to the attackers landing zone. However if he dies first the prisoner goes to the defender who killed him and is now VIP who can put him back in the prison cell if that player can manage to get back there alive, but if the VIP defender dies the prisoner goes back to the attackers making the killing attacker VIP and so on and so forth. If time runs out while the prisoner is not in a cell and is just attached to a random player, then the team with the VIP (who has the prisoner) wins by default. If the attackers get the VIP to the landing zone, they win, and if the defenders keep the prisoner in the cell long enough for the shuttle or transport to arrive at the end of the 12 minutes, they win.

I will get pictures and update more as I go on, I just want to know some peoples thoughts on this idea. Keep in mind that the prisoner is not usable in combat at all and acts like a non damageable pet and pretty much has the same usage as a huttball, except of course he cannot be passed and will not affect combat in any way shape or form.

...and we don't want to. We love this game, every bit as much as you do and we'll do whatever we can to see it survive. Dude, we don't want any of you guys to leave, we don't want anyone to leave. But we are also aware that if what currently exists isn't working, then try something new or if we already have enough of one thing, try something new.

 

You can already murder/death/kill to your heart's content in current warzones. why not try something brand new? Do you really want just another background to pew pew in? The same old thing? at least in each new FP or OP, we get new story, but in warzone, its just spawn and kill. What few mechanics exist are weak. There are people that think huttball sucks and some that think its the best warzones around.

 

All I'm suggesting is a new type of warzone, not just another huttball arena or capture the flag or deathmatch. I'm saying there are many more ways to do PVP that doesn't just involve killing. No, I'm not talking about Go-Fish or Monopoly which are bad straw man arguments, but PVP that involves a team being better rather than just players being a bunch of Rambos all the time.

What he wants is cross server que's or bust and any thing other then that he got to be a buzz kill on. Since that is the big issue to the pvpers in this game. Hate to burst his bubble but the few unhappy players that are leaving wont make a dent. As they leave more come and play hell i got a lot of friends just coming back because of housing. So it fun and games as usual but just don't tell him that he might get his care bare feelers in a bunch.

There is nice brand new idea: "Boss queue mode". In this mode, PvP'ers can play Bosses for FP and Operations.

Sure, Bosses under managemant of player brings much more fun and brand new fight mechanics for standard PvE content!

...and we don't want to. We love this game, every bit as much as you do and we'll do whatever we can to see it survive. Dude, we don't want any of you guys to leave, we don't want anyone to leave. But we are also aware that if what currently exists isn't working, then try something new or if we already have enough of one thing, try something new.

 

You can already murder/death/kill to your heart's content in current warzones. why not try something brand new? Do you really want just another background to pew pew in? The same old thing? at least in each new FP or OP, we get new story, but in warzone, its just spawn and kill. What few mechanics exist are weak. There are people that think huttball sucks and some that think its the best warzones around.

 

All I'm suggesting is a new type of warzone, not just another huttball arena or capture the flag or deathmatch. I'm saying there are many more ways to do PVP that doesn't just involve killing. No, I'm not talking about Go-Fish or Monopoly which are bad straw man arguments, but PVP that involves a team being better rather than just players being a bunch of Rambos all the time.

And this is exactly what Cycao is talking about. The point is that this game is based on weak mechanics, until you change that "different" PvP will still be built on top of, what you say are, weak mechanics.

You can't build a brick house with pillows, and its ashamed some members here are providing all the feathers for free, instead of advocating them to use actual bricks.. This is why the "old guard" is irritated with you and the lot.

There is nice brand new idea: "Boss queue mode". In this mode, PvP'ers can play Bosses for FP and Operations.

 

Sure, Bosses under managemant of player brings much more fun and brand new fight mechanics for standard PvE content!

Someone in our Facebook group suggested this. Queue for 4's and if no pops you get thrown into an operation as a boss fight. Would pay for a lifetime sub if this was a feature.

I get exactly what you're saying and why. Here's exactly what I'm saying and why:

 

More PVEish stuff like NPC groups and bosses should not be in WZs. For the same reasons that PVP should not be in Ops and FPs. If there is to be a blend of the two it needs to be bifurcated from the main game types or incorporated into daily areas.

 

I (and those with the same frame of mind) want to compete directly with and against each other. An NPC would be nothing but a giant turd in the punchbowl. Tell me, how much would retentive Op types enjoy their run if me and a few others dropped in and started wiping their group? You want PVE in PVP? I want PVP in instanced PVE, it's only fair.

Great description Joe. I actually don't mind blending the two, but that's what a PvP server and daily areas are for. I suggest we leave the NPCs in the PvE and open world environments.

There is nice brand new idea: "Boss queue mode". In this mode, PvP'ers can play Bosses for FP and Operations.

 

Sure, Bosses under managemant of player brings much more fun and brand new fight mechanics for standard PvE content!

I like it!!!

I get exactly what you're saying and why. Here's exactly what I'm saying and why:

 

More PVEish stuff like NPC groups and bosses should not be in WZs. For the same reasons that PVP should not be in Ops and FPs. If there is to be a blend of the two it needs to be bifurcated from the main game types or incorporated into daily areas.

 

I (and those with the same frame of mind) want to compete directly with and against each other. An NPC would be nothing but a giant turd in the punchbowl. Tell me, how much would retentive Op types enjoy their run if me and a few others dropped in and started wiping their group? You want PVE in PVP? I want PVP in instanced PVE, it's only fair.

I'm right with you on that last suggestion man, hell ya, have people in queue for a warzones just randomly pop up in a FP and **** some **** up.

I like your idea for the same reason I like the idea of NPC's as traps in warzones, it makes things messy and messy is fun.

...and trust me, trying to do some PVP and having some douchenuckle stealth into your AOE is far larger a turd in the punch than NPC's in warzones.

Great description Joe. I actually don't mind blending the two, but that's what a PvP server and daily areas are for. I suggest we leave the NPCs in the PvE and open world environments.

Exactly, I'd enjoy the hell out of it OW too. This game needs more stuff like that. Particularly for those that enjoy both "disciplines". But instanced WZ?

Interesting concept, I wonder what some of the issues would be with this method of VIP selection? Would it be too frustrating to not have control over who the VIP was or would it balance out in PUG vs Premade? Would the majority of players feel excited they were selected as the VIP or angry/upset? Would people /stuck because they don't want to be the VIP or otherwise leave? Would the team pick the VIP based on AC and HP? What info could we show about each character so the team can make an informed decision on who they want to target?

VIP is not an MMO game-type. There are too many factors that differentiate classes from each other. As you already mentioned Modny.

And if you allow the other team to select the VIP, you are just making it easier for them. They are going to pick the weakest target 100% of the time, and if you have ever played Yolo Ranked then you know that target does not live very long in 9/10 cases of a PUG group. PUG players would be frustrated at being selected as VIP, I am certain of that.

Exactly, I'd enjoy the hell out of it OW too. This game needs that stuff like that. Particularly for those that enjoy both "disciplines". But instanced WZ?

Are you guys really that scared of a couple of NPC traps messing up your PWNZORZ?

There is nice brand new idea: "Boss queue mode". In this mode, PvP'ers can play Bosses for FP and Operations.

 

Sure, Bosses under managemant of player brings much more fun and brand new fight mechanics for standard PvE content!

This is exactly what I was going to suggest. The four man player team must have the 1 tank 2 dps 1 heal so the group finder must work correctly. Secondly there should be the boss 'skills' posted on the site so that they are clear to the players.

This would be a nice merge of the existing pve content that should in theory require less programming than a whole new WZ. I quite like the idea of being the Terror From Beyond or Gill or the Vigilant for example

I got this idea from Forge a pvp only game.

Best regards, and happy pvping,

U_M

yeah stop make warzone in instances and put them on planet ...live just entering the zone and your done.

Control that base and you control the zone

And make one that space and ground are implicated in the same warzone, or zone ....

ty

Are you guys really that scared of a couple of NPC traps messing up your PWNZORZ?

They should focus on the Player part of PvP and keep PvE completely out of PvE. If you want a mix of both hit up PvE daily areas.

Unless a group of 4/8 PvPers could queue up as operation bosses for 8 and 16 man then go ahead.

Are you guys really that scared of a couple of NPC traps messing up your PWNZORZ?

Tell ya what, if PvE'ers decide they want some PvP in their PvE, then I'll support PvE in PvP.

But just to let ya know, I can dig up a thousand threads from PvE'ers who are upset with PvE missions in the PvP area when the Gree event goes active, so I'm pretty sure it would never happen anyways.

PvE'ers do not want PvP activities when carebearing;

and...

PvP'ers do not want PvE activities when pwnzing carebears.

It's not difficult, so let's move on.

How about a mini-version of the original Ilum? What was a pretty cool idea was ruined by a terrible community IMO.

This is going to borrow some other ideas from people in this thread:

 

Flavor text: Your faction is trying to gain the upperhand in the Battle of Ilum! You must secure landing zones to move up your forces and finally launch an attack on the enemy base!

 

Map: http://i.imgur.com/3glrfWx.png

 

Objectives: Your team needs to capture landing zones to secure the battlefield, and then destroy the two Anti-Aircraft turrets to allow for an airstrike to take out the base.

 

- Your team must control all 3 landing zones in order to attack the AA turrets.

- To eliminate the need for guarding, capturing landing zones will work like this:

• Landing Zones (LZs) can only be captured if
  1. The LZ in question is the closest unoccupied LZ to your faction's base
     
  2. The LZ in question is the closest enemy occupied LZ to your base
     
  3. Unoccupied LZs take precedent over enemy occupied LZs
     

  [*]LZs can be captured by:

  1. Destroying the 3 enemy vehicles present in the landing zone
     
  2. The vehicles do not do damage to players
     
  3. Players must use a Rocket Launcher (right click the vehicle to fire) to destroy each vehicle
     
  4. It takes 3 Rockets to destroy a vehicle. They cannot be repaired
     
  5. Each player can only fire one rocket every 30 seconds.
     
  6. Should no enemy vehicles be present (ie at the start of the game), a 'King of the Hill' style mechanic will capture the LZ (Must remain within the LZ for 30s, each player inside of the LZ causes the timer to decrease at a rate of .5s per second, ie if 6 players are within the LZ it will be captured in 10 seconds) . There must be no enemies within the LZ to begin this timer.
     

  [*]Once you have captured the LZ (either via timer or destroying enemy vehicles), 3 vehicles belonging to your faction will land in the LZ.

- Once your faction controls all 3 LZs, you will have to take out the AA turrets by:

1. Using a Rocket Launcher (activated by right clicking the turret) to inflict damage to the AA turret
   
2. It will take 5 Rockets to destroy the enemy AA turret.
   
3. Each player can only fire one rocket every 30 seconds
   
4. Turret damage cannot be repaired
   

- Once you have destroyed both AA turrets, your faction will commence a bombing run and you have won the WZ!

- The WZ will last 20 minutes. In the result that neither team destroys the opponent's base, determine winner via:

1. Number of LZs held at WZ end
   
2. If for some reason # of LZs held is tied, determine winner by the fewest deaths.
   
3. If for some reason fewest deaths is also tied, determine winner by highest team-total damage dealt
   

 

 

Firing the Rocket Launcher is a 3 second cast, which allows a team to disrupt their opponent from destroying their vehicles. Enforcing a 30s cooldown on using the rockets prevents one player from taking objectives all by themselves; you will need to use teamwork to win.

 

The AA turrets at the end should be place relatively close together, to focus the action. Again, the cooldown on the Rocket Launcher forces a team to work together to take down each turret, and also gives the opposition time to fight back.

 

 

 

 

This would use a lot of stuff that was already in the game (rocket launcher ability, the vehicles + animations of them being destroyed/landing, bombing run animations). If there is something I forgot to cover please tell me lol.

Bring back Ilum

Interesting concept, I wonder what some of the issues would be with this method of VIP selection? Would it be too frustrating to not have control over who the VIP was or would it balance out in PUG vs Premade? Would the majority of players feel excited they were selected as the VIP or angry/upset? Would people /stuck because they don't want to be the VIP or otherwise leave? Would the team pick the VIP based on AC and HP? What info could we show about each character so the team can make an informed decision on who they want to target?

Being a VIP needs to be fun. 150% of the player's normal stats? Possibly even a larger player model (if that's possible)?

It needs to be restricting in some way though. Maybe a permanent slow, like the Huttball? Something that keeps pug idiots from chosing to go off and do whatever they want, completely leaving the rest of the group and throwing the game for everyone.

Bring back Ilum. was a pretty cool idea was ruined by a terrible community IMO.

Really? A "terrible community" ruined Ilum? Ilum was perfectly playable except for the community?

Are you forgetting the lag that was so bad, that not only was Ilum a slideshow, but player-character's avatar's didn't even load in, so it was a slideshow of red and green nameplates shifting about the screen slowly. There was no purpose to Ilum other than to ride around on a speeder in a circle collecting 1 of a handful of boxes, while racing 50 other people for it. Did I mention the 3 fps?

A bad community didn't kill Ilum, BW did. Blaming the community for Ilum is probably the biggest Defender-reach I've ever seen on these forums.

VIP is not an MMO game-type. There are too many factors that differentiate classes from each other. As you already mentioned Modny.

 

And if you allow the other team to select the VIP, you are just making it easier for them. They are going to pick the weakest target 100% of the time, and if you have ever played Yolo Ranked then you know that target does not live very long in 9/10 cases of a PUG group. PUG players would be frustrated at being selected as VIP, I am certain of that.

To be honest, I see this is as a game mode that would definitely improve the standard of player around here.

Of course, naturally speaking, the game mode in itself would only work if the goal was to do something else over giving people immediate enjoyment: educate players on class/spec comparisons and give people a better scenario in how to work more as a team in combat situations (there really isn't a mode that teaches anything beyond the basic "healers heal, DPS dps, and tanks tank"). Getting focused as a target would not only encourage you to probably consider rolling a different class/spec with better defenses (which a good majority of the people here need that little indication since WZ beatdowns aren't really a sure fire "spot light" like this game would probably be), but also teach veteran players on how to come up with innovative ways to defend teammates other than just "everyone blow all your AOE stuns once this guy gets jumped at once!".

So yes, the potential backlash of this type of game mode would definitely be something the developers need to consider. But here are the actual pros of this idea:

-Forcing DPS to be more than just DPS. Too many people in the WZs are able to just get what they want by mindlessly wailing on someone while a few teammates cover the objective, without even realizing how to win in a combat situation (wailing on the tank as the healer pocket heals). However, in a game mode where the objective is specifically tailored to defending a teammate chosen by the enemy, DPS players will have to look more into how they can protect a teammate simply because they won't be able to get away with mindless DPS if the objective calls for defending teammates over objectives.

-Developing player skills in reading enemy teams. By creating a system where people on the opposing side can choose the friendly target, players can develop a better sense in understanding actions by an enemy team (IE, why did the enemy team choose this Marauder to gank?). This, would in turn, lead to an improvement on player skill in reading an enemy team, where hopefully more people will be able to make judgements on enemy teams when it is further developed, such as "Enemy Sorc healer + Enemy Merc healer = Using healing debuff and instant burst damage on Sorc to force Merc burst heals on Sorc, burn Merc healer when focus on is on them and burn Sorc healer when merc has to focus burst heals on themselves." Or something like "3 Deception sins and a Carnage Marauder = team loaded with extreme burst damage, counter by exploiting their squishiness and controlling the burst damage with mezzs and stuns".

-Developing skills in how to effective kill a target. On the offensive side of things, people that have a set objective of killing a specific player would then have to develop a better strat other than "let's just hit this guy all at once and he should die". Being the offensive side, players would have to question how a tank could effectively counter their DPS, or how a healer can go unnoticed in a situation where they are attempting to kill the target being healed. Overall, this would create a system that would better emphasize the role capabilities than deathmatch arenas ever could, and how to counter what each different role is doing to you.

-Giving tanks a reason to queue for pugs without a pocket healer/premade. As tanks, the only other game mode worth playing in where you truly play to the advantages of being a tank is Huttball, which is also very reliant on whether or not heals are present in the group. As tanks, there is literally no reason to be one over a DPS without having a team worth protecting and defending. With this game mode, tanks would have new purpose, and having a tank would still be valuable even without having heals because that is what the game mode emphasis is about in VIP: protecting teammates.

Hah! That sounds like a lot of fun! I would like to give the spectators something to do though, more than just watch. Maybe they could set off traps to disrupt the 2 players battling it out? Maybe they could get rewards based on if they did damage or otherwise had an impact on the match so they have a reason/goal to stick around after they lost? Glad you enjoy contributing, I enjoy reading all these great ideas!

Easiest solution: gambling.