theonetruebleed Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 So, Having being playing a few days and having fun in the Sith camp, I was eager to have a look around the Republic's side of the Galactic Fence. Rolling a new character was a breeze; Jedi Knight, Human, Male, Obi-Wan McGregor Hairdo, Random Name - GO! Cue SW Crawl and intro movie, so far, so generic. And that's where the bubble burst. Being in the Jedi starter area is like running around a Christian morality village; "Oh no, people are in danger, but never fear, Captain Cutesy is here!" off we go to deal with these miscreant ne'er-do-wells, diamond morality shield firmly in hand. Every dialogue option gives you three options; the overtly goody two shoes choice, the not-so neutral i'm a big 'ol hero of the republic choice, and, as if that wasn't cringe-worthy enough, you have the naughty option, which sounds more like Louie Spence having a diva tantrum than actual arrogance/sarcasm/sith in the making. I feel as though Bioware should be handing out mandatory puke bags to anyone who rolls a Jedi the dialogue is that twee. I'm not sure what happened to the Star Wars franchise - when did the Jedi contingent become an introduction to ethics for five year olds? Is it just me, did I just get old and jaded, or have all the Jedis been washing their robes in Daz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darka Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The options are nicknamed Four Greta ways to say Yes, sometime there is little character in the Republic story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codyr Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) i think partly, the writers, indeed almost our entire generation, are bored of the traditional good side. in almost every hero-villain story, the villain is the one making things happen, and the hero is a hero because he preserves the status quo. at no point does a hero of this type challenge the status quo. truth, justice and the american way sounds incredibly corny to us now, which is why the new superman movie tossed it out like it was a joke. so i suspect, when approaching the story of this great war between the empire and the republic, where the jedi have but one goal, and that is to make sure everything stays exactly the way it is, the writers simply got bored and filled the storylines with a mr. rogers style morality, even to the point of being completely hypocritical, where your "light-side" choices result in you inflicting much more harm and murder on the galaxy than saying, "f- this, you guys are corrupt a-holes and i'll have no part in this." it doesn't have to be this way, though, and there are examples of the heroes in a story being the ones who challenge the status quo, even if everyone is happy with the way things are. Pleasantville is a good example of that. i think that after seeing what the republic was working on through chapter 1 of the jedi story, and even what you eventually see on Belsavis on all republic classes, the real light side choice should have been to work to dissolve the Senate, because it no longer serves the interests of the Republic. but that doesn't happen. in fact, nothing even remotely similar to that happens, and your only exposure to the politics of the Senate is through the trooper storyline where it's just so much Tom Clancy BS about the military being perfect and democracy just gets in their way that i just throw my hands up and assume the entire Republic is a joke. Edited June 6, 2012 by codyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengatron Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Most conversation options offer three choices... A "nice" one. A more neutral, self serving one. A "nasty" one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenzali Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) There are actually dialogue/story decent options to play a Dark Jedi at the beginning at least, though I had to Esc out of conversations to get all the best responses for it. You can even take the path of a Dark Jedi and construct a Dark Jedi's lightsaber at The Forge although I haven't played much farther than that. I fraps all my class cutscenes so I Esc many times to ensure that everything my character says is in-character, which is why all the dialogue options are explored to find the best one. Another good example is in the Twi'lek village, you can romance one of the females however when she betrays you, you can have quite a convincing dark side case to kill her. After that, there are actually a lot of branching dialogue options, where you can lie to your master or confess your slip-up but say that you think there is still darkness within you Jedi Consular story offers no such option however. Either you're a goody-goody all the time or you're a random schizophrenic who decides to heal everyone but kill a few people for no reason. For the same reason, I found the Sith Inquisitor storyline so painfully boring compared to the Sith Warrior, because the SW choices were all convincing whether light, neutral, or dark in thanks to the good writing and excellent voice acting. SI seemed like a comic book villain in comparison and the light side choices horribly out of character, yet the dark side choices so totally senseless. However the SI did give me a lot of laughs. If you're referring to the Republic-side quests in general, the Empire-side ones are equally as bad in their senseless killing. DURR DURR KILL LIGHTNING TORTURE SLAY CHOKE! I mean, how good does the story need to be for a "go here, kill X and collect X" side-quest? Although at least both light, dark, and neutral options are compelling enough to be convincing. The whole "being tired of being a hero" is probably more about being jaded with nearly all fiction in general, especially as people tend to want to explore actions they would never do in real life. Anti-heroes and non-insane villains are pretty much always going to be more compelling unless you're a villain in real life. I know a few "IRL villains" who can't get enough of playing goody-two-shoes within video games. Edited June 6, 2012 by Jenzali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) I really don't get the (KTOR era) Jedi morality. Really the Sith might be a bit crazy but, a light side Sith almost makes more sense., they have a far better grasp on the realities of life in the galaxy, and emotions. Take for example Satele Shan. She had a son, and completely rejected, (from what I can tell), any attachment she had to him. ...because apparently, attachment to anyone, leads to 'the dark side'. Wouldn't rejecting a bond, with your own flesh and blood, also constitute being on 'the dark side'? I just can't get my head, around the concept, of complete emotionless detachment, from all living things....how is that 'light'? How is that 'good'? o_O Edited June 6, 2012 by JediElf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codyr Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) I really don't get the (KTOR era) Jedi morality. Really the Sith might be a bit crazy but, a light side Sith almost makes more sense., they have a far better grasp on the realities of life in the galaxy, and emotions. Take for example Satele Shan. She had a son, and completely rejected, (from what I can tell), any attachment she had to him. ...because apparently, attachment to anyone, leads to 'the dark side'. Wouldn't rejecting a bond, with your own flesh and blood, also constitute being on 'the dark side'? I just can't get my head, around the concept, of complete emotionless detachment, from all living things....how is that 'light'? How is that 'good'? o_O since the jedi are based partly on buddhists, emotion detachment is an integral part of their teachings. but where buddhists believe detachment is preferable because the entire world is a falsehood, and only through detachment can you find peace, the jedi don't actually have any beliefs about how the world works, other than "the force did it." so, while a buddhist monk is detached so that he may clear his mind of the distractions of our "fake" reality, a jedi is detached because he's an a-hole. even George Lucas knows subconsciously that emotional detachment isn't heroic, and so in basically every battle in every star wars movie, it's the assumed "good" guy that's emotionally unstable and flying off the handle, while the "bad" guy is cool and collected as he goes about his murderous and evil business. it would be hammy and stupid for darth maul to savor qui gon's death like a cannibal or something, just as it would be difficult to connect with obi wan's pain if he had no reaction to it and simply stood there while qui gon died. just the same, vader would not be very imposing if he was angry or cackling all the time, but we wouldn't give a rip about luke if we didn't think he was scared or sad or angry. Edited June 6, 2012 by codyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi_overtake Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I really don't get the (KTOR era) Jedi morality. Really the Sith might be a bit crazy but, a light side Sith almost makes more sense., they have a far better grasp on the realities of life in the galaxy, and emotions. Take for example Satele Shan. She had a son, and completely rejected, (from what I can tell), any attachment she had to him. ...because apparently, attachment to anyone, leads to 'the dark side'. Wouldn't rejecting a bond, with your own flesh and blood, also constitute being on 'the dark side'? I just can't get my head, around the concept, of complete emotionless detachment, from all living things....how is that 'light'? How is that 'good'? o_O It's a very Zen mentality I've played a light-side Imperial Agent up to 50, and I've found it to fit really well with the character's nature. I'm also playing a light-side Bounty Hunter, and while I desperately want to go dark-side (the person I'm leveling with is light-side and would prefer if I went light-side as well), light-side hasn't been so bad. My dark-side Sith Inquisitor does feel natural. I don't think I can imagine a light-side Sith Inquisitor. But to your point, sometimes the light-side seems exaggerated, and sometimes I find myself going "how is THAT light-side?" or "why wouldn't this option be consider light-side?" or "that sounds more neutral than good." My guess is they did all the dialogues and went back and changed some options, which might be why some of them are exaggerated in order to balance out the light/dark/neutral choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Ya know...thinking more on this, perhaps it's like...like a dichotomy of sorts. The good, and the bad, overlap into a morality of grey, but are mirrors of each other and not always opposites. Now I have to go roll a Jedi. *wanders off to the Login screen* Edited June 6, 2012 by JediElf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonetruebleed Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 Remember, sick bag at the ready; you're off to the galactic bible belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Remember, sick bag at the ready; you're off to the galactic bible belt Not really, it's exactly what one would expect from the Jedi Order, something portrayed so much in the EU, it's almost a seamless transition. Playing it all through Dark Side is a very very fun experience compared to the Light version, it's beyond fun, it's almost giddy levels of good. Edited June 6, 2012 by Rayla_Felana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimasterjac Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 First, I would like to say welcome to Star Wars: The Old Republic! If you have some questions, you can check out the guides here in the "New Player Help" forum. Anyway, if you don't get to a fairly high level (Say, past Coruscant) Then, yes, it can seem generic, but the Sith are too. "I'm evil-- let's kill tons of innocents" if you are talking in THIS perspective. However, the roleplaying part of this game, in my opinion, is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Playing it all through Dark Side is a very very fun experience compared to the Light version, it's beyond fun, it's almost giddy levels of good. Then a Dark Side Jedi I shall be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Then a Dark Side Jedi I shall be! A 100% LS Jedi feels like a complete tool, tbh. My Knight is barely Light IV, and I played him as a vigilante type that takes no crap off anyone. For some that are beyond redemption, I was the Righteous Fury of The Force. To those who could be saved, I was their lifeline back. And as far as the Code went, I threw it on the backburner and proceeded to knock boots with Kira throughout the game. Didn't make me turn to the Dark Side, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Then a Dark Side Jedi I shall be! Play a Female, honest to god the voice actress is ten times better than the male one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Play a Female, honest to god the voice actress is ten times better than the male one. Ok... I like Kari Wahlgren... in fact, I had a huge celebrity crush on her for a while. But the male JK is SOLID SNAKE, even though he sounds more like Sean Barker (Guyver: Dark Hero) in the game. He does deliver a few lines in the Snake voice, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambunctious Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Just because the writers chose to make it seem one way, does not make it the correct way. There's no way the jedi thousands of years in the past of Ep1 behaved in exactly the same way as hardheaded Yoda, and Windu. Even then, the whole JK story is not like the starter planet. I gets much better, and you do have differing responses. I might can understand the jedi starter world the way is if you look at it like a jedi boot camp. Like the real world boot camps, a place where rules, codes, and behavior are pounded into your head for entire duration of your stay. A place where you're broken down, and rebuilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenzali Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) There's no way the jedi thousands of years in the past of Ep1 behaved in exactly the same way as hardheaded Yoda, and Windu. Just so you know, Windu was actually very dark-sided. He was one of the few able to use Vaapad without being corrupted. Edited June 7, 2012 by Jenzali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambunctious Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 He was still hardheaded, and I don't care about anything of that era that's not in the movies. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 He was still hardheaded, and I don't care about anything of that era that's not in the movies. Thanks. I would recommend reading the novelizations of the Prequels, then. Also, it's been a... for lack of a better term.... FAIL tradition of the Jedi Order to be stuck-up holier-than-thou "We know best because we's leet doods" types. They get nearly wiped out every few hundred years or so, make reformations, then slip back into their old ways again somewhere along the line. It's a vicious cycle that has plagued the Order since its earliest days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eanelinea Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 My Jedi Knight is the daughter of a Chiss agent (who's light side), but she also has influences from her aunts and cousins. She is NOT the robe-wearing monk type. Heck, she's not even wearing robes, but an outfit Havoc squad would wear (it's not bulky armor, but looks like a republic version of the imperial agent officer armor). It's all white. She's mostly LS because ALL my girls are LS. But believe me, she's chosen dark and neutral choices too. She refuses to be a stick in the mud. She wanted to go to the Sith Academy but her parents said 'hell no'. So she went Jedi Order. My Consular is the daughter of a bounty hunter. She has moments when it's all about the monies. But as with my JK she's mostly light side. Just RP your character how YOU see them acting. Whether they be completely light, completely dark, neutral, or they make decisions on what's going on at the time. Don't let the movies/books/cartoons make you think that Jedi HAVE to be skipping down the meadow picking flowers LS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeyyOxto Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Jedi Consular story offers no such option however. Either you're a goody-goody all the time or you're a random schizophrenic who decides to heal everyone but kill a few people for no reason. ^^^ This. Dark Jedi Knight fits. I play mine as the guy that does things that have to be done, but the goodie goodie Jedi don't have the stomach for. Most of the dark side choices that you have fit very nicely with that. I tried to play a dark consular. That character has been retired to the mental health ward. The choices they give you are horrible to the point I actually started feeling sorry for the guy that wrote that story line. And if you do, by chance, see something that looks like what a sane person would say on the wheel, get ready because that's nowhere near what's about to come out of his mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenrik Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) If you wanna play Republic, don't feel like you have to restrict yourself to force-user. Go smuggler for some great and humorous dialogue (easy to be realistically self-serving with this class, but I think it's also realistic as LS and DS). Also, don't forget the trooper. Trooper is... interesting. It's kinda like the Jedi since you're expected to do good out of the gate, but I'm having good fun being a dark side vanguard. You just need to think of a backstory as to how you got to be head of Havoc Squad despite of (or BECAUSE of) being corrupt. Always gettin yelled at by my superiors and giving them lip, but they can't dishonorably discharge me cuz I'm too awesome at what I do. Edited June 7, 2012 by Stenrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatooey Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 i think partly, the writers, indeed almost our entire generation, are bored of the traditional good side. in almost every hero-villain story, the villain is the one making things happen, and the hero is a hero because he preserves the status quo. at no point does a hero of this type challenge the status quo. truth, justice and the american way sounds incredibly corny to us now, which is why the new superman movie tossed it out like it was a joke. so i suspect, when approaching the story of this great war between the empire and the republic, where the jedi have but one goal, and that is to make sure everything stays exactly the way it is, the writers simply got bored and filled the storylines with a mr. rogers style morality, even to the point of being completely hypocritical, where your "light-side" choices result in you inflicting much more harm and murder on the galaxy than saying, "f- this, you guys are corrupt a-holes and i'll have no part in this." it doesn't have to be this way, though, and there are examples of the heroes in a story being the ones who challenge the status quo, even if everyone is happy with the way things are. Pleasantville is a good example of that. i think that after seeing what the republic was working on through chapter 1 of the jedi story, and even what you eventually see on Belsavis on all republic classes, the real light side choice should have been to work to dissolve the Senate, because it no longer serves the interests of the Republic. but that doesn't happen. in fact, nothing even remotely similar to that happens, and your only exposure to the politics of the Senate is through the trooper storyline where it's just so much Tom Clancy BS about the military being perfect and democracy just gets in their way that i just throw my hands up and assume the entire Republic is a joke. In the original SW trilogy, Luke is not the hero, Vader is, for a couple reasons. All the plot in the movies revolved around Vader actions and choices, and the good guys are only responding to it. In the end, Vader killed the Emperor and was redeemed. We are just trained in this country to see the good guy as being the hero, and so we see it even when its not there. For SWTOR, couple things going on. First, its hard to make an interesting "good" character because drama revolves around conflict, and a goody two shoes just won't be in conflict as often. So it's harder to give them depth and deep story lines. You can do it, Miyazawa makes great stories and often does not have a villain. Just more work Second, they spent way more time, energy, and thought on the empire side than the republic. Give you an example, Black Talon/Esseles. Run both, and run each one taking all the DS option, then the LS options. In Esseles, the story is pretty much the same regardless. In Black Talon, the story is profoundly different. If you play an Imperial Agent, you can end up with 4 or 5 endings and final titles depending on who you kill and who you let live along the way, and the choices they present later on. On the republic, you pretty much end up in the same place reagardless what choices you make. They simply spent more time on the Empire. Even the space station is more detailed. My guess is the Empire was done first and they had more time on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I tried to play a dark consular. That character has been retired to the mental health ward. The choices they give you are horrible to the point I actually started feeling sorry for the guy that wrote that story line. And if you do, by chance, see something that looks like what a sane person would say on the wheel, get ready because that's nowhere near what's about to come out of his mouth. If you don't hit every dark side choice, a grey-DS consular is possible. Spoiler act I: On Tython you learn about an ancient Jedi master who fell to the Dark Side and learn a little about his teachings. I played my consular as a Jedi who fell to the dark side because of him and starts to follow his principles: 2. Principle: All life is a battle, even to the last breath. 5. Principle: Showing mercy to an enemy creats a spiral of destruction. 8. Principle: Sacrificing your strength to help others is the path of a fool. (Speaking in Character:) During the storyline I tried to follow these principles. Since the shielding ritual weakens you, I couldn't save the masters. But it was a hard choice every time, especially in the end killing Master Yuon and Lord Vivicar. I really whished there would have been an option to reject the Barsan'thor title. I felt absolutly unworthy and really sad because of the things I did. One example for how the difference between the insane and the sane DS consular works: On Alderaan, you fight one of the corrupted masters. After you have defeated her, she asks you to kill you, because "Vivicar is in her head". When you take the DS option now ("With pleasure."), your character says "I thought you'd never ask." Don't do that. Take the neutral option. ("Vivicar again.") She tells you that she doesn't know where he is and that he can read her mind, but she can't read his. Then sha asks you again to kill her. This time there are two light and one dark option. Take the dark one "If you wish so.", and you say: "It gives me no pleasure to do this, Master Sidonie." Sounded sane enough for me. There are many situations similar to this. And make sure not to take the third option when you talk with your master. At least not on a regular basis. Being friendly and saying "I am sorry, I had no choice." makes it more believable that they don't interfere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts