the % of people that actually play this game to enjoy, is very, very small. For many, its just a feeder for an addiction to collect shiny.

I think the opposite of that is true. With all they've pulled lately the people still here are the loyal ones that play to enjoy it. They've made chasing shinies more difficult (and by difficult I mean a huge pain in the ***) so the ones addicted to shinies are the ones that have moved on.

To be honest I don't have a clue about what this Iokath world PVP is, but I am 100% sure that it will fail. Nobody plays in PVP instances, and nobody will want to play in that Iokath world PVP thing. Period

 

The majority of the playerbase are story player soloers who aren't interested in group content or anything related to PVP or world PVP.

 

They were the reason PVP flagging was removed so that little billy who is rep side jedi doesn't get crushed like a bug by an imp player in the dune seas of tatooine.

No, the reason the pve instances were added were for people like my friend, who doesn't like pvp, doesn't have to worry about some "pvp" player stealthing and agroing the npc she was attacking and therefore flagging her when she wasn't even flagged to begin with. This was happening too many times, even when they tried to fix it.

It one thing for a person to be flagged quite another for someone to use a bug to intentionally flag a person that was not flagged just so they can attack them.

My boyfriend loves pvp but he calls people who were doing this cowards, as they had to find people that were not even flagged and used a gimmick/bug to flag them just so they could kill someone.

People can still be group players even if they don't do pvp. I normally group up and do flashpoints, operations, uprising and even at times heroics. I will occasionally do pvp if my boyfriend is on and wants to do as I have no patience with people who act like 2 years old in a pvp zone and throw temper tantrums when they don't win.

No, the reason the pve instances were added were for people like my friend, who doesn't like pvp, doesn't have to worry about some "pvp" player stealthing and agroing the npc she was attacking and therefore flagging her when she wasn't even flagged to begin with. This was happening too many times, even when they tried to fix it.

 

It one thing for a person to be flagged quite another for someone to use a bug to intentionally flag a person that was not flagged just so they can attack them.

It's doesn't matter how it's implemented, how it's regulated or rewarded, how much they listen to player feedback; owPVP come 5.2 won't work because players would rather game the system, contribute to faction imbalance, win-trade, form lines around objectives, repeat the same story chapters ad nauseam, or not participate... rather than engage in fair and competitive combat.

 

No one could come up with a system that the players won't inevitably try to break or avoid altogether just to get at the rewards.

Who cares? All they did was take the new PvE area and create a PvP instance, add some BS missions and call it a PvP feature.

It is just like the current OW areas, no one will go there within a few days of release; everyone will be in the PvE version.

The only thing to care about with this is the wasted dev time and the fact that now PvP won't get a real feature because this is their lame excuse for a PvP feature.

All the things you guys are weeping about are not new, that is why the current OW areas are all empty.

I think you are exactly right...the PvE instances were added to eliminate the griefing from jackhole players.

Except the PvE instance came first, they didn't create this just for PvP, they cloned the new PvE content and threw in a few missions.

Except the PvE instance came first, they didn't create this just for PvP, they cloned the new PvE content and threw in a few missions.

Are you talking about Iokath?

Who cares? All they did was take the new PvE area and create a PvP instance, add some BS missions and call it a PvP feature.

 

It is just like the current OW areas, no one will go there within a few days of release; everyone will be in the PvE version.

 

The only thing to care about with this is the wasted dev time and the fact that now PvP won't get a real feature because this is their lame excuse for a PvP feature.

 

All the things you guys are weeping about are not new, that is why the current OW areas are all empty.

Again, this. The old open world PvP area on Ilum died within months if not weeks, and that was back at the start of the game when the player population was at its highest level ever. Any similar sort of PvP area on Iokath will become a ghost town within days as everyone realizes it's much more efficient to just complete the content in the PvE instance and not deal with the griefers who will hang out all day every day just to jump people trying to get story quests done.

^^ Yep.

 

I imagine there will be a lot of win trading going on under the radar... which is also normal. Been win trading in PvP since the early days of RvR in DAoC... so I don't see it going anywhere...as players that want to game the PvP system WILL find ways to game it.

 

At least it's not gaming for ranked ratings.... just for tokens from corpses (and it is unclear that the tokens are of much value), which is largely a victimless exploitative behavior. But if you see it.. report it.

 

The larger classic issue under this coming format would be griefers... griefing, for griefing sake. But given a player can choose a PvP or PvE instance, this is largely mitigated in my view.

To be fair, no one will engage in a fight if they do not need to. That was the problem with Gree. I completing the objective was not mutually exclusive that someone else does not. The fact that I can atk them does not mean I would or should. Surely wont happen if it slows my progress to achieve my objective. This is not the players fault, but BW's failure in design.

Add, why would anyone do content if it is not rewarding? Cosmetics can be nice, but lets face it, cool cosmetics are rarely provided for content, and usually locked for CM. And even if they exist gear >>>>>>>>>> cosmetics. So, why should I run open world PvP, with no balance, structure or reward, when I can earn 7500-10,000 CXP and 30-40 UC per hour spent in WZs (discounting PvP dailies rewards)? And, I do not see how lacking structure PvP being more fun.

Again, this. The old open world PvP area on Ilum died within months if not weeks, and that was back at the start of the game when the player population was at its highest level ever. Any similar sort of PvP area on Iokath will become a ghost town within days as everyone realizes it's much more efficient to just complete the content in the PvE instance and not deal with the griefers who will hang out all day every day just to jump people trying to get story quests done.

True.

Of course for those first few days or weeks... it will be griefers paradise, until they get bored and move on to something else.

Eric did state that there would be a PvE instance, but that you could still get flagged if you enter an opposing faction base. Not sure exactly how that works.... but if this turns out to be true that you can still get flagged in the PvE instance, you can bet the griefers will be camping hard to catch the careless.

True.

 

Of course for those first few days or weeks... it will be griefers paradise

 

This is why open world pvp (ie, leveling areas) always fails and why the pvp servers are always the first to die.

This is why open world pvp (ie, leveling areas) always fails and why the pvp servers are always the first to die.

I honestly think they did a great job on how OW PvP worked in this game originally (although the toggle should have been there from the start). Class quests (the "must do" quests) never crossed into PvP areas, so the ability of players to grief others was greatly minimized (yes, some people found ways to bypass the safeguards, but I never had an issue). The bonus missions did, and I know some people had bad experiences with it, but I really liked how they separated the "must do" quests from the PvP areas and mixed optional quests with the risk of PvP.

I hope any future games exercise the same caution in protecting new players. It wasn't perfect, but it was damn good imo.

I honestly think they did a great job on how OW PvP worked in this game originally (although the toggle should have been there from the start). Class quests (the "must do" quests) never crossed into PvP areas, so the ability of players to grief others was greatly minimized (yes, some people found ways to bypass the safeguards, but I never had an issue). The bonus missions did, and I know some people had bad experiences with it, but I really liked how they separated the "must do" quests from the PvP areas and mixed optional quests with the risk of PvP.

 

I hope any future games exercise the same caution in protecting new players. It wasn't perfect, but it was damn good imo.

It was really easy for griefer to get people flagged. That was the main problem with the flag system for a very long time. They just had to wait for someone to start a fight and run in the middle of the mobs and get hit by a aoe. Some doing that were stealther so you had no way to see them until they killed you after you hit them with a aoe or splash damage. Since killing leveling people was their objective, they when straight to the main mission area so that seperation didn't mean anything when it was griefer that went after people.

It was really easy for griefer to get people flagged. That was the main problem with the flag system for a very long time. They just had to wait for someone to start a fight and run in the middle of the mobs and get hit by a aoe. Some doing that were stealther so you had no way to see them until they killed you after you hit them with a aoe or splash damage. Since killing leveling people was their objective, they when straight to the main mission area so that seperation didn't mean anything when it was griefer that went after people.

True...I didn't mention it because I was on a PvP server, I was always flagged. I imagine that became very annoying on a PvE server. Just keep in mind...those were griefers, not PvPers (I know you said it, that comment is meant for others, not you).

Don't know if this will work or not. It may well need some changes over time. I don't really see the point of complaining about it until after its come out. At least then you can give BW examples of what you think needs changing.

BW at that point may or may not change it, but will at least know what individual players like or don't like. I say this because BW will not do anything before hand. I say that because they never have in the past. The only players they will listen to at this point in time are those who are on the test servers, if any.

True...I didn't mention it because I was on a PvP server, I was always flagged. I imagine that became very annoying on a PvE server. Just keep in mind...those were griefers, not PvPers (I know you said it, that comment is meant for others, not you).

Hehe my boyfriend has another name for those (and he loves pvp)

True.

 

Of course for those first few days or weeks... it will be griefers paradise, until they get bored and move on to something else.

 

Eric did state that there would be a PvE instance, but that you could still get flagged if you enter an opposing faction base. Not sure exactly how that works.... but if this turns out to be true that you can still get flagged in the PvE instance, you can bet the griefers will be camping hard to catch the careless.

Im sure it will work the same as all the other faction bases scattered about in the game. Once you break the target box boundary, it will start a countdown of some type. If you break the target box boundary and become insta flagged then that will be a huge fail mechanic. Either way, im sure they will let things sort themselves out before making any drastic adjustments.

Hehe my boyfriend has another name for those (and he loves pvp)

I'm certain he and I would agree on what he calls them

Eric did state that there would be a PvE instance, but that you could still get flagged if you enter an opposing faction base. Not sure exactly how that works.... but if this turns out to be true that you can still get flagged in the PvE instance, you can bet the griefers will be camping hard to catch the careless.

Probably like how it works now in PvE instances when you go to hunt enemy base commanders. You have a few seconds, but are quickly flagged for being in enemy territory, especially once you attack the outer defenses.

Probably like how it works now in PvE instances when you go to hunt enemy base commanders. You have a few seconds, but are quickly flagged for being in enemy territory, especially once you attack the outer defenses.

Yeah, I really don't see any reason for concern on a PvE instance - things will basically operate as they normally do.

Probably like how it works now in PvE instances when you go to hunt enemy base commanders. You have a few seconds, but are quickly flagged for being in enemy territory, especially once you attack the outer defenses.

Except that isn't how it works anymore, because commanders only spawn in PvP instances, and you no longer autoflag in enemy territory anymore in PvE instances.

Except that isn't how it works anymore, because commanders only spawn in PvP instances, and you no longer autoflag in enemy territory anymore in PvE instances.

.........*flips table* how did I miss this? I'm usually fairly up-to-date, but I missed this.

Regardless, probably how the flagging for PvP in PvE Iokath will be though. Maybe they'll return PvE instance commanders in that case (he said hopefully)?

Im sure it will work the same as all the other faction bases scattered about in the game. Once you break the target box boundary, it will start a countdown of some type. If you break the target box boundary and become insta flagged then that will be a huge fail mechanic. Either way, im sure they will let things sort themselves out before making any drastic adjustments.

You are most likely correct. However, I learned 5 years ago not to take what is stated at face value for this game, and to actually see what is implemented and how.

I disagree with this statement. It is not that players do not play the game for enjoyment, they simply do not find it enjoyable to get stomped.. IMO, one has to be in a very specific mindset to enjoy OWPvP. When I am in that mindset I thoroughly enjoy it, but when I am not in that mindset, I HATE it with a passion. And there in lies the problem: it is a black and white/love-hate situation; there is no middle ground. ..........

 

It doesn't help that a large influx of PvE'ers are jumping into PvP to get gear, they don''t realize that the highest damage tally alone isn't a winning strategy....there're no enrage timers for PvP.

I've been harrassed in PvP Ops chat for not being #1 damage in full 242's, while guarding,...inversely I've been in WZ's where our kills were half the opponent and we win because stealthers sneak in and cap while we lure groups away and get clobbered while the stealther caps, or 4-5 players lure the opponent away from the ball carrier in Huttball, while heals go with the carrier.