There are differences between bullying, harassment, and discussion - even heated discussion, as this one has been. Outside of some gratuitous namecalling, this thread is still firmly in 'discussion' territory. I think it'd be great if all concerned dialed down the personal insults in any further explorations of the topic. Given that my ability to influence things here (and GSF chat in-game) is somewhere near zero, I don't expect much of a result from a plea for civil discourse... but here it is, anyway.

I also doubt any new players are viewing this thread and forming opinions on the community in one way or another. My observations lead me to believe that for quite a while now, the only new players that come here are ones with complaints, and even their numbers are small. I almost miss the 'NERF GUNSHIPS!' guy. Almost.

Regarding in-game stuff:

- I do not believe there are many veteran players who are hoping to run into a team of new players to get easy kills or 'guaranteed' wins. My experience has been quite the opposite in that most veteran players I have talked to want to have interesting, close matches. They'd like to win those, sure, but I don't believe that most of them are out to farm anyone or get easy, pointless wins.

- Some veteran pilots don't enjoy self-handicapping or pulling punches in the name of giving less experienced teams a chance in matches. There are arguments to be made on both sides of the coin. Adversity demands and instigates growth, but the environment surrounding GSF has changed from the days when you could just keep hammering away to develop your skills enough that you could overcome the people who were better than you. It's a bigger discussion than this particular post should tackle. On the whole, though, the veterans who don't enjoy pulling punches would be pleased if they either were fighting peers or if the less experienced competition would rise to the challenge and learn how to deal with adversity.

- Massed bombers do not need to coordinate or employ advanced strategies to be extremely effective in Domination matches. They don't even need to move, or do damage, or generate kills. All they have to do is put a sufficiently large death cloud around two satellites and sit there long enough to win. This is not a controversial observation, it is clearly proven time and again because quite a large number of players do not know how to deal with bombers, and many of them when faced with bombers will fly aimlessly around in space, not even attacking.

- When you arrive at the pre-match screen showing the teams, and the side opposite you has a full roster of five-ship hangars, it is an easy bet that those people are not 'new' in the sense that people with only a T1 strike and T1 scout on their bar are 'new.' It is also true that you can't tell the quality or experience of a pilot just by the number of ships on their bar, but when you see a team that is mostly five-ship hangars, that is usually going to signal that you are flying against people who have played more than a few games, and you must assume they know what they're doing, and act accordingly, until proven otherwise.

- New players should learn bomber play... and scout play... and gunship play. They should gain experience in all of these, learn the components that will serve them well, and learn when and where each of these ships is most effective.

- New players should learn how to play in a group. They should try playing on voice. They should make premades and learn coordinated tactics. Premades are not evil. Premades are not a magic 'I Win' button. They confer no special inherent advantage (other than getting queue priority), not even always the ability to communicate on voice. It is a group game, some people enjoy teamwork and developing team skills. Some enjoy the social aspect of talking with people as they game. Stigmatizing premades helps nobody. Yes, it sucks to be put into a game against a premade full of good players when your team is not as good. No, it is not some moral failing on the part of the players in the premade if they choose to play together.

- New players should ask for help from veteran players in-game. /cjoin GSF . Ask for advice. Seek to improve. Act to raise your skill up to the level of those who excel. Listen to advice from those who excel, and realize that your perspective on the game is less developed than that of those who have flown thousands of matches... but you can gain perspective and skill by being diligent and open minded.

- Despon

BTW I asked the question already knowing the answer. You are a liar. I will leave it at that. Those that know you can now rest assured that you will in fact bold faced lie. You have made an effort to keep your in game and forum presence separate. If you wish for that to remain the status quo I would suggest dropping this.

Those that know me? I don't think anyone knows me anymore. My server perished long time ago and my guild had moved on to other games I don't like. I do not part take in any in-game stuff involving groups, guilds, etc. When I play I hop servers every once in a while to get a free rename and to keep low profile (all of those cartel coin grants). And when I can't play I'm a forum warrior. However I know of many people and see their deeds on the forums and in-game.

However I understand why you're so hurt. Not everyone likes when someone doesn't praise their skill.

BTW I asked the question already knowing the answer. You are a liar. I will leave it at that.

I have a high degree of confidence in saying that you are completely wrong on this. And that it's a pretty harsh and decidedly uncivil avenue of attack from you.

- Despon

Thanks Despon and Lendful. I also think it is obvious _who_ the rule-breaking-cheater that threatened me is at this point, otherwise what would the motivation be to try so hard against the facts. He is clearly wrong on almost everything, one thing he said was actually correct as astonishing as that seems or so I was informed by credible veterans afterwards. Which was:

- I thought it was enough to show my 2k per battle as proof I'm new, whereas it turns out some veteran play styles I guess can produce this amount of damage also, so I guess I stand corrected on one point but because I didn't know that it only further demonstrates how new I am. And anyone that has faced me 1v1 would easily agree.

So once again Despon and Lendful are the voice of reason, the harasser obviously cannot gain anything by this conversation nor does the fair-play community so I will try to leave it alone. It is difficult to avoid the urge to defend ones self when attacked baselessly.

I've learned quite a bit just by reading analysis here, notably from Ramalina, Maulat, Secksegui, aakrea, maximillion and despon (sorry If I left some name out) and watching the very skilled players on that video.

And I think perhaps if wise decides to make good on his threats and targets me because I didn't leave the game, he will learn very fast that I am as unskilled as I say I am. Watching someone prove himself wrong I suppose is it's own reward.

Thank you guys, I've made some friends already here from the out-pouring of support. Lets get back to the fun of the game. And I regret that the original poster's thread was hijacked.

Those that know me? I don't think anyone knows me anymore. My server perished long time ago and my guild had moved on to other games I don't like. I do not part take in any in-game stuff involving groups, guilds, etc. When I play I hop servers every once in a while to get a free rename and to keep low profile (all of those cartel coin grants). And when I can't play I'm a forum warrior. However I know of many people and see their deeds on the forums and in-game.

 

However I understand why you're so hurt. Not everyone likes when someone doesn't praise their skill.

Okay, what ever. I know a coward when I see one. You are a remnant of the early internet where people leaned heavily on anonymity to fulfill their dark triad needs. Many people like myself have moved on to the modern internet.

To all the new people just get in a ship have fun even if it is just zooming around . We need more of that at this point than we need cutting edge ultra M.E.T.A. high skill play.

Okay, what ever. I know a coward when I see one. You are a remnant of the early internet where people leaned heavily on anonymity to fulfill their dark triad needs. Many people like myself have moved on to the modern internet.

Lendul, you are wrong in your assumptions about WiseStranger's identity, and these personal attacks reflect poorly on you. Take a step back, look at the way you are approaching this, and decide if you're happy painting yourself as someone who calls people liars and cowards in a public gaming forum.

Stellarcrusade, I sympathize with you because I know from plenty of personal experience that it is no fun to have negativity directed at you, and because it is hard to get started in GSF. However, from what I have heard from all parties involved in the altercation, and from what I have seen from the video in question, you have not been subjected to harassment or bullying. We are not privy to the full conversation you had that led to this, but based on the information I have read, you were on the wrong end of a rebuke that was born out of a different view of the game in question than you are presenting. There has been no cheating involved, and the extent to which it is rules-breaking in terms of player communication is questionable at best without seeing the chat. Go sit in the PvP channel (ground PvP) for ten minutes and you will see such a landslide of trashtalk and outright hostility that what you endured will seem like a handshake and a pat on the back.

There is a wide spectrum of behavior ranging from helpful to hostile, and the most hostile communications in this whole thread have been made by Lendul.

Once again, I definitely hope to see everyone participating in the game and doing it in a civil manner.

To all the new people just get in a ship have fun even if it is just zooming around . We need more of that at this point than we need cutting edge ultra M.E.T.A. high skill play.

You do not get to dictate how people measure 'fun.'

Not every day is a Super Serious competitive endeavor, but many people find it 'fun' to push themselves to the limit of their ability in an effort to improve. GSF is a competitive PvP game. People are going to compete. Many people find it 'fun' to develop team based tactics and skill built around acting as a unit. GSF is a multiplayer game that supports grouping. People are going to group. Both of these subsets take a lot of flak for playing the game in a way that is 'fun' to them.

Yes, in the heat of battle, it sucks to be on a team full of people who can't compete against a team full of people who can.

There aren't a whole lot of great solutions for GSF at this point that don't involve developer intervention.

Speaking for myself, I don't find it 'fun' to swap to the weaker side in an attempt to balance things out then repeatedly lose and draw tons of focus because I'm the only threat on a team. I do it anyway, because... I'm crazy, I guess? I have equally little fun winning blowouts.

I do not believe that the solution is to have everyone just fly whatever, the realities of the game design be damned, zooming around for 'fun.' My solution, such as it is, has been to try to educate people on the tactics necessary to be competitive, and advise the ship builds that support that. Note, being competitive doesn't mean 'always winning' or 'farming noobs' or whatever. If people take the time to learn how to use the tools at their disposal, they can get better at the game and support their teams.

To me, close competitive games are 'fun.'

- Despon

TLDR Despon's growing hate for bomber balls grows to new heights as now " We will put you and your guild on a list and relentlessly kill you" is a justifiable response to new player bomber spam.

Seriously Despon your mind has become so clouded that the big picture is not even something you can see anymore. The developers have clearly communicated that if we want any development that the player base must increase.

You keep telling new players they need to understand the game and adjust what they do. I am not seeing that from you though. New players are expected to just suck it up and take the frustrating beat downs all in the light that later on it will all be worth it and pay off. Maybe you and others need to be the ones that suck it up and learn to deal with situations you find frustrating be it bomber balls,GS wall, scout swarms or new players not playing "correctly" or premades with a closed mouth. Because in the end it might pay off with more people actually playing the game.

TLDR Despon's growing hate for bomber balls grows to new heights as now " We will put you and your guild on a list and relentlessly kill you" is a justifiable response to new player bomber spam.

Ok, points for reading way more into it than actually exists. I didn't say it is a justifiable response. I didn't condone that.

Seriously Despon your mind has become so clouded that the big picture is not even something you can see anymore. The developers have clearly communicated that if we want any development that the player base must increase.

The developers are never going to touch GSF again with a fifty foot pole. It was not profitable for them, they abandoned it, they are not coming back to it. When they did come back to it, promising changes to strike fighters, they never followed through on it. They are gone.

It is also neither our job nor within our power to bring more players into their game, and if they DID want us to bring more players into their game for the purpose of making GSF an attractive budgetary expense, they would do a damn lot more than zero communications and uttering wistful nothings during a dev chat that have no bearing on reality.

But on the count of attempting to bring new players into the game, how often do YOU reach out to the general forum to try to bring new players into the game? How often do YOU sacrifice your time and energy to run chat sessions expressly held to give new players instructions? How many game guides have YOU written?

I know what I've done, and I am comfortable with my effort to expand the player pool.

You keep telling new players they need to understand the game and adjust what they do. I am not seeing that from you though. New players are expected to just suck it up and take the frustrating beat downs all in the light that later on it will all be worth it and pay off. Maybe you and others need to be the ones that suck it up and learn to deal with situations you find frustrating be it bomber balls,GS wall, scout swarms or new players not playing "correctly" or premades with a closed mouth. Because in the end it might pay off with more people actually playing the game.

I know quite well how to deal with those situations. It is the people who don't know how to deal with them that perpetuate their negative effect on the game. There are tactical solutions to these situations. Learning them actually does help. One person can't beat a team of people who know what they're doing.

What you are advising is, in essence 'carry harder.' There comes a point where carrying teams isn't possible due to sheer number of threats on the board. It's a team game. The whole team has to know how to contribute.

How is it even controversial to suggest that things would be better if everyone knew what they were doing?

- Despon

I didn't want to post more in this topic, but the reworking of the words people are typing is getting out of hand. The arguments passing between the parties needs to stop in this topic and get to the reason OP started it in the first place.

Grouping is what I do in gsf on my two main toons. I have over 20 toons on Harbinger (no I'm not going to name them). Six of them are known to be me by many readers of the forum and by pilots that fly with and against me.

I know the issue wasn't about me grouping or not, blowing up noobs or having a good game. The issue was that a person in voice with me, while I was flying against "bomber spam" with a group in prep for Super Serious a few nights away, chose to log onto the other faction and have a conversation with somebody.

This person getting talked to took things a little too seriously and chose to vent his or her frustration here (which is fine). However, this conversation is way off kilter now from the original topic being asked about.

Please guys, lay off the arguing in this topic, take it to messages here, PMs or mail in game or even make a new thread. It doesn't matter to me. I just want the drama to end in this topic and move on. Thank you.

my ears are burning , listen up I dont care about ur war of words lets settle it on the 1v1 battlefield If ur game.

I will take on any of u damn fools any day of the week unless im busy at comcast

please refer to the link in my signature if u would like to see my sterling credentials TBH

Stasies guide has some good bomber tips but I have a few to add. I'm not an ace but I consider myself competent in a bomber.

If you are in a T1 your job is to keep a beacon active, if you are in a T2 your job is to keep a repair drone active as well as staying on the node.

Drop beacon away from the node. Not all ships fight on the node, Gunships and scouts are better off spawning away from the node but it also makes it harder for the enemy to destroy

LOS is the bombers best defence, don't just fly around the circle if there is fighting on your node. Use all directions for LOS and use c to know when to drop the mines.

When dropping mines turn away from the node, if you just drop them behind you it makes them easy to shoot before they arm. Remember where the active mines are and lead the attacker there.

Scouts are faster, I use boost and changing direction often to make it harder to follow and create the opportunity to drop mines. If using a CP build use the walls to reverse direction quickly.

When guarding you can just call out the sat letter but if there is a GS make sure to let your team know. Type GS before the sat letter so your team knows you need a scout and the threat is off the node.

IIf you are a sub you get a gunship

This is only true if you were a subscriber when GSF was released. I am a sub and just get the starter striker and scout.

So I decided to catch up on this crazy game everyones been talking about. I went ahead and watched the video.

First thing I'd like to touch on, Maulkats team specifically says "they're practicing for super serious night" while playing. Well you know what if you were practicing for Super Serious you should have been happy they fielded 5 Bombers, because once you have a dominant position in Domination it is completely viable to turtle up as hard as possible and just try to last out until you win.

Second thing, we can hear Tsukuyomi's voice on the video and he asks if he should "give them a warning', when he wasn't even in the game.

I'd also like to point out that even if players are using 8 Bombers THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! Yes it can be annoying, but the only real reason people have a problem with it is it turns new players off from the game. It's pretty damned clear Maulkats team was not new, so not only was it okay as an ethical point to play to win they should have been doing whatever was necessary to win even if that includes fielding a billion Bombers. (Hell they were practicing for Super Serious anyways)

As for Stellar man don't bother claiming stuff like "I only win 1 out of 25 games" or "I was the only Bomber" just own the fact that you used a strategy that won you the game. The fact that the other guy came over to "give you a warning" is just an ego boost for you guys. It means an upset happened, you beat a team that didn't think they could lose against you.

From watching the video Stellars team played great, they contested B all game while holding it in the off times. Once they got a 2 Node hold they turtled hard. Once they started getting Ioned they suddenly had 2 less Bombers on their team to help deal with it, bravo guys well played.

As for Maulkats team, getting those Ions is crucial yes but you can't have only one person to hold that contested of a node. You guys really needed to have 2 plating Bombers doing beacon cycling to hold that contested of a node. That coupled with the Ion spam would have given you the node easily.

I really don't understand all the arguing, WiseStrangers analysis of the video is spot on. Maulkat clearly agrees that no one should have yelled at the opposing team afterwards. Stellar you guys won I'm not sure why you're so mad, the guy that yelled at you probably wasn't even in the game.

Anyways those are just my thoughts on the situation.

just own the fact that you used a strategy that won you the game. The fact that the other guy came over to "give you a warning" is just an ego boost for you guys. It means an upset happened, you beat a team that didn't think they could lose against you.

Thank you, but you give me too much credit. I'm barely aware of my surroundings at this skill level, much less what others are flying. Credit for the win should go to Natal'ya, Kazbiel and Arrikeen perhaps. Regardless if you feel multiple bombers is a good strategy or underhanded one, it has never been deliberately employed by me and my only problem is how bad it is for new player retention when someone takes the time to try to harass one to quit the game. I was only trying to offer my newer-player perspective and answer from that perspective the OP's question. A lot of meaningless conversation about nothing in this thread, when the only real issue is how new players should be treated.

The thread has been helpful to me personally, as a few veterans have come over to answer basic newbie questions and to tutor us (even people from the opposing team in the video). And we are appreciative to those nice people. All has been forgiven, and no hard feelings remain.

Thank you, but you give me too much credit. I'm barely aware of my surroundings at this skill level, much less what others are flying. Credit for the win should go to Natal'ya, Kazbiel and Arrikeen perhaps. Regardless if you feel multiple bombers is a good strategy or underhanded one, it has never been deliberately employed by me and my only problem is how bad it is for new player retention when someone takes the time to try to harass one to quit the game. I was only trying to offer my newer-player perspective and answer from that perspective the OP's question. A lot of meaningless conversation about nothing in this thread, when the only real issue is how new players should be treated.

 

The thread has been helpful to me personally, as a few veterans have come over to answer basic newbie questions and to tutor us (even people from the opposing team in the video). And we are appreciative to those nice people. All has been forgiven, and no hard feelings remain.

Glad you're not upset anymore

Even if all you did was guard C all game, no one ever took so you did your part. It forced the opposition to keep banging their heads at B against who you say are the more skilled pilots on your team. That's contribution, you were where you needed to be to win the game.

The only thing I'd suggest is don't always guard the satellite you think no one is going to go to. You can't improve if you don't put yourself in positions to practice. Learning how to live in dangerous situations, being able to figure out how to position yourself on a contested satellite, killing enemies on that satellite are all very important things to learn when playing Bomber. Bomber may have an easier skill floor then other ships because you will always get some free damage in, but trust me the skill ceiling is a lot higher then people think.

If you ever have any questions or want to get together to talk strategy feel free to Private message me anytime, or drop by my Ask me Anything thread right here on the forums.