I really like the changes, but just have on thing to say about the AoE node cap interruption. I can completely understand where you are coming from, but it seems like you are punishing the group when if fact it is only a few culprits responsible, namely the ranged channeled AoEs without CDs (and to some extent orbital strike). A lot of people like to stand in the back and cheese using those AoEs to prevent anyone ever even getting a chance to cap and that is definitely a reason there are so many stalemates. For those AoEs, I think it would be fine to not let them interrupt a cap, but for AoEs that do have CDs like fragmentation grenade, smash, death from above or death field or AoEs that take some skill to use like lacerate, carbine burst, double saber toss or whatever the knight/warrior class has should still be able to do its job. You can't cheese with any of those, and they require skill and knowledge of when to use.

 

At the very least make AoEs that have a specified target like fragmentation grenade, smash or double saber toss still be able to interrupt as those are the classes that will be hurt the most by this change.

I agree with this post. Are you [the devs] looking to prevent ALL aoes from stopping caps, or just the spammable ranged aoes? There is a big difference.

How do you feel this affects ranged more than melee? All melee classes have AOE abilities as well that will no longer work. I actually like the idea that more people capping will be harder to stop by a single individual. I am slightly worried that the game will be more about standing on top of each other to try and prevent someone from being targeted and spam capping, however.

The way I can see this change affecting ranged more than melee is this:

Assume that AoE CC abilities will become the only way to deny a cap w/AoE. Most AoE CC abilities require the player to be in melee range, even those of the ranged classes (GS, Commando, and Sage knockbacks).

Melee classes who are currently relying on AoE damage skills to deny caps are, not surprisingly, already in melee range. Nothing really changes for them, other than that they hit a different skill to stop the cap (although not really, as most Juggs I see already rely primarily on their AoE CC to stop caps in Novare, to take one example).

Ranged classes who are currently relying on AoE damage skills to deny caps are, more likely than not, probably not in melee range when doing so. Now they have to consider saving things like the GS roll, Commando Hold the Line, or Sage force speed as gap closers to get within melee range of node cappers rather than using those skills as escape skills to get away from melee attackers, as many do now.

All that said, I do agree that it's kind of silly that some knob can stand 30m away out of LoS of the cappers and spam Force Storm indefinitely, so this change might be nice, but I can see how it might affect ranged a little more harshly than melee classes.

in addition, the warzone comm limit is being raised to 200,000.

200,000 ?

I really like these changes... I'm still conflicted about the AoE thing, but still think that's better wait some more time to have a position about it...

About past rewards being available for new player, I think that you should separate in 2 types at least, rewards that could be given to anyone, like armor sets, crystals etc and exclusive items that only players that participated in the right time would be eligible for it.

200,000 ?

Cause then you will be able to bank as many comms as you want before hitting level cap, I am assuming.

Why don't you think 4 players can cycle targets fast enough to prevent 6 from getting a cap exactly? Are we all starting with closest player only? If so, that's just stupid.

 

Players will need to adjust their tactics...that's all this change does. 1 player shouldn't be able to hold off 8 others...I like what this change may do.

Think in terms of multiple people. What if it's a 3v2? With CC breaks, CC immunities, etc. in the game, keeping 2 people CC'd is difficult if even possible. CCing one and forcing the other to try and individually rotate through 3 people to stop caps is what makes this idea viable. It only takes 1 tick to stop all of the cappers, so you CC both players and one breaks CC right before you cap and AOEs the three people. You CC both players again and the other player breaks the CC with CC breaker immediately as they have full resolve. Now you have a 3v2 with 2 targets that can't be CC'd and wasted at least 10 seconds in which the other team can respond.

 

I'm not saying this idea is perfect, but this thread is full of people trying to explain why this isn't going to work rather than thinking about ways it could improve gameplay. Try it on PTS and we'll see how it plays out. We may see that it's far too difficult to prevent zerg capping and it will have to be adjusted. I just wish people were keeping more of an open mind rather than shooting down the change before they experience it.

I'll answer you both right now, and I have a bit of the qualifications to do it. I was basically the strategist of my PvP guild on Ven Zallow at launch, the one that dominated the server.

Here is what you do, especially in VS but it'll work anywhere but NC. 1 guardian with Daunting Presence, 3-5 others stacked on top of him, everyone spam caps. You will not stop that cap in time even with 8 people there. Guardian AOE mezzes any standing near the node, entire group starts capping, guardian pops Saber Reflect and caps as well. Good luck cycling through tabs to stop everyone, even with a coordinated team.

Also Guardians with Daunting Presence will now be virtually GUARANTEED to remove the bomb from the door in VS, 5 seconds of reflecting SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE, which is the only thing that can interrupt it now.

I'll answer you both right now, and I have a bit of the qualifications to do it. I was basically the strategist of my PvP guild on Ven Zallow at launch, the one that dominated the server.

 

Here is what you do, especially in VS but it'll work anywhere but NC. 1 guardian with Daunting Presence, 3-5 others stacked on top of him, everyone spam caps. You will not stop that cap in time even with 8 people there. Guardian AOE mezzes any standing near the node, entire group starts capping, guardian pops Saber Reflect and caps as well. Good luck cycling through tabs to stop everyone, even with a coordinated team.

 

Also Guardians with Daunting Presence will now be virtually GUARANTEED to remove the bomb from the door in VS, 5 seconds of reflecting SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE, which is the only thing that can interrupt it now.

Thank you for the reply.

I guess I'm just open to any change that forces us to make some tactical changes. I understand players concerns about AoE's, but I also think it could speed up gameplay a bit.

The system should make it pretty unpalatable to get 1 medal (you need to get at least one medal to get any rewards from the match) and then AFK, as the amount of Comms you would gain is much smaller than you would if you got 8 medals, win or loss. We will keep an eye on this though as we don't want to promote this behavior.

Thanks for the response! I feel kind of foolish, as I totally knew about that mechanic many moons ago, but forgot.

I'll answer you both right now, and I have a bit of the qualifications to do it. I was basically the strategist of my PvP guild on Ven Zallow at launch, the one that dominated the server.

 

Here is what you do, especially in VS but it'll work anywhere but NC. 1 guardian with Daunting Presence, 3-5 others stacked on top of him, everyone spam caps. You will not stop that cap in time even with 8 people there. Guardian AOE mezzes any standing near the node, entire group starts capping, guardian pops Saber Reflect and caps as well. Good luck cycling through tabs to stop everyone, even with a coordinated team.

 

Also Guardians with Daunting Presence will now be virtually GUARANTEED to remove the bomb from the door in VS, 5 seconds of reflecting SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE, which is the only thing that can interrupt it now.

Last time I checked, basic melee attacks went through Saber Reflect. Only ranged, force, and tech abilities are reflected. No one is saying your concerns aren't valid, just that we'll have to see how it plays out before eliminating the idea completely.

Yeah, I'm not really sure how someone could exceed the new comm cap either.

 

Still, be careful what you wish for, obim. You won't be able to hide behind your gear anymore, and you're the first one I'm coming for

Shouldn't be too hard to get me now anyways. Pub side harbinger is not exactly swimming in quality players atm.

Alex, I hear what your saying about snipers and the metrics showing you that we're doing well.

Something isn't right here, so here's my question would you be willing to provide a bit more information on what the metrics are saying?

Does your metrics show you the average survival time for a sniper in solo queue arenas and can it be broken down into spec? Is it higher or lower than the other classes or about the same and do you take into account the amount of people playing the class?

i.e. if you take the total amount of solo queue arenas snipers have played, say that's 1000 what's the breakdown? If one player has done 500 arena's and the other 500 are split between 100 others do you alter your perception as required?

If players are saying we are having a survival issue but yet your metics show you the class is doing well then something isn't right. More information is required so we can help each other understand what's going on.

Shouldn't be too hard to get me now anyways. Pub side harbinger is not exactly swimming in quality players atm.

I was referring more to 1v1s, but yeah I've noticed pub side has taken a hit.

Again, for the devs, I just want to reiterate that I approve all these changes (except the interrupt changes). I really want to see these happen, it will make PvP a much better place.

Shouldn't be too hard to get me now anyways. Pub side harbinger is not exactly swimming in quality players atm.

Don't worry obim. I'll be back from vacation soon, and we can smash imps together again.

Don't worry obim. I'll be back from vacation soon, and we can smash imps together again.

I just teared up a bit

Nice changes as such but they're a sign of the increasing desperation

Not really - if you been here awhile you'd notice that all these changes at some point have been community views and suggestions in some form, the AOE do over might be the exception, but on another note; If you ever been in a tight bout in VS it do make sense . . . bold move actually

... We have the problem of players entering the queue that aren't ready to compete stat wise so providing a check prevents them from getting into the queue and potentially having a negative impact on their team (and a 'free kill' for the opponents)...!

Maybe you should fix bolster so that there are no "free kills" in warzones due to gear. I mean, it makes sense that you are helping the ranked players by requiring 2018 expertize before entering a ranked match, but wouldn't it be nice if "free kills" were eliminated from regular warzones too.

Not really - if you been here awhile you'd notice that all these changes at some point have been community views and suggestions in some form, the AOE do over might be the exception, but on another note; If you ever been in a tight bout in VS it do make sense . . . bold move actually

Okay, apart from the AOE part and the 2018 requirement, everything else is screaming about dropping pvp player base.

Btw, is anyone else surprised by the fact that only 2% of players pvping have a full dark reaver set?

I'm assuming their metrics are correct though (like if for some reason their metrics are broken for players that min max, and somehow a full Reaver min maxed player isn't counting in said metrics).

I just figured more people would have a full set by now.

Myself, fully min maxed with all companion passive bonuses, datacrons and class buffs, I get to about 43.6k health as a sin dps. I'd say the average HP I see is around 41k.

Of course, this is not really indicative of someone in full reaver gear, but I find that it does set the bar.

btw, is anyone else surprised by the fact that only 2% of players pvping have a full dark reaver set?

 

I'm assuming their metrics are correct though (like if for some reason their metrics are broken for players that min max, and somehow a full reaver min maxed player isn't counting in said metrics).

 

I just figured more people would have a full set by now.

 

Myself, fully min maxed with all companion passive bonuses, datacrons and class buffs, i get to about 43.6k health as a sin dps. I'd say the average hp i see is around 41k.

 

Of course, this is not really indicative of someone in full reaver gear, but i find that it does set the bar.

43,658

Hello Jaiyne,

 

If you have less than 2018 Expertise when you attempt to queue you will not be allowed and a GUI message will appear. However, after you queue or when you get into the match you may change out your gear if you want. We have the problem of players entering the queue that aren't ready to compete stat wise so providing a check prevents them from getting into the queue and potentially having a negative impact on their team (and a 'free kill' for the opponents). We still want players to have the ability to customize and min/max their gear setup so we didn't want to take that away, just provide a check to make sure they are experienced in PvP beforehand. Hope that helps!

I have a follow up question/feedback to this (I just got home from work so haven't had the chance to watch the podcast yet). The 3.0 standardization of set bonuses has greatly benefited some classes (sorc heals getting the old PVE heal bonuses on their PVP gear) and greatly nerfed others (losing 8% heal on intercede for juggs--though granted they can H2F now with Enraged Defense--and 10% more damage after Force Charge, for example).

1. Does the 2018 requirement mean bolster is getting completely removed from ranked? Or would we still be able to bolsterize in group ranked?

2. If I know that a set of gear will bolster to 2018, is it really necessary to enforce a pre-bolster 2018 requirement instead of making it post-bolster? Before 3.0 the sorc heal PVP bonuses were so broken and useless that I used PVE 2-piece, which bolstered to 2012 at the time. I knew what I was doing, I didn't set myself up for the uber squishiness that going into warzones with full raid gear is known for, and I certainly wasn't a troll. If I wanted to PVP on my Juggernaut (who is currently my PVE main), why shouldn't I be able to dust off the old PVP bonuses?

3. Is there any consideration of bringing back some or all of the old set bonuses so we have more ways to customize our gear to match our playstyle? (A "Classic PVP Gear" vendor, a la the level 55 operations tokens vendors on fleet, would be awesome to this end ) Or does the development team regard class homogenization via set bonuses a necessary evil to bring balance to the Force?