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02.11.2014 , 12:49 PM | #447
Quote: Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
All of us are biased about these matters one way or another, do not try to pretend that you are not.

I have done my homework about Sith Emperor as per your favorite criteria and presented it to the community, now you do yours after thoroughly checking my latest work. It contains all the answers you need.

Unfortunately, this is your response:
You have misunderstood, what I was saying here is that personal biased - of which we are all guilty of - has no place as an argument in reasoned debate. I don't care for accusing people of being biased and having particular "mindsets" and I don't care for people accusing me of the same. As long as their arguments are logical and reasoned, I will take them at face value, which is what I have done in regards to your arguments, and I'd appreciate it if you continue to do the same.

Personal attacks/critiques leveled at reasoned argument are, in this way, unnecessary and crass.

Regardless this is the current state of the debate as you left it, and I see no material in your analysis that could be used as evidence to dispute those particular points. And I am troubled to find that you mislead your readers into thinking the Sith Emperor is capable of tearing down the Sith Citadel, a point which I have demonstrated to be fraudulent.

That said your assessment does bring to light interesting and new information, again I do not see anything that explicitly refutes my conclusion, but I'd be happy to alter my analysis to incorporate them, though I doubt a different outcome will be reached. Don't assume I am simply ignoring your points, and don't assume that an argument with gaps in is a credible one. If there are gaps in your argument, it is inadequate, and I will exploit them.

Also it is generally poor form to tell people to "do your homework", much better to make your arguments explicit.
Your assessment about both characters does gives this kind of impression. Key difference is that Sidious is much more explored and well-defined character in comparison to Sith Emperor who is a newcomer to the mythos. This is why, comparison between these two is unfair at the moment. Their is so much information about Sidious to consult and use, simple.
While true this does not change the reality that the Sith Emperor has yet to do anything, I feel, that surpasses Sidious in ability. And given he recent "demise" I doubt we will be seeing a great deal more from him.
And no! Sidious is not solidly superior to Sith Emperor in almost every respect. You try to present this picture with lot of hype and personal theories in favor of Sidious as apparent from this thread:
Hype is a term filled with hot air, I await your more substantial response. Furthemore the term "theory" does not suggest fabricated, my theories are either well-based in fact and evidence, or explanations of facts.
And this is why the ranking criteria that you are promoting is flawed, some characters are more well-defined then others and your ranking criteria favors them over lesser defined ones.
Which is why it is best to exclude them altogether, as opposed make ill-favoured assumptions concerning their abilities. This is a list compiling characters of which enough information is present on them to make a comparison.

But as I have said before if you think this "ranking criteria" to be flawed and pointless, I am confused as to why you insist on continuing to participate. Nobody said you have to accept this list, and you are free to ignore it.

You don't think? See, your perceptions are not necessarily true.

None of these Sith Lords have mastered the Force in ways like Darth Nox have, neither have found a way to wield the "combined might of several (powerful) Force-users" to contend with Darth Nox.

Think about it, Khem Val alone was a powerhouse and Darth Nox not just wielded his powers and might but that of 5 other dangerous Force-users. Darth Nox is simply too strong for anybody to challenge barring few in the entire mythos. Extremely talented Sith Inquisitors are the mightiest bad@sses among the Sith in the mythos. Sith Emperor himself is a Sith Inquisitor.

In-fact, Sidious also progressed from Warrior to Inquisitor curriculum to improve his abilities.
As I said "with maybe the exception of Darth Nox" - unfortunately his abilities are based almost purely on game mechanics and anything else is far to vague to say anything specific.

Remembering that "I think" =/= fact.
And what are these wealth of exceptional circumstances?

By this logic, many duels have some kind of circumstances affiliated with them. Unless odds are heavily stacked against an individual, he is unlikely to loose if he is superior to the opposition or rely on cheap tricks to pull off a victory.
Firstly I applaud that logic, all duels have circumstance affiliated with them and should never be taken at face value.

Secondly, the sum of all the exceptional circumstances is that Caedus was unable to bring his Force powers or his lightsaber abilities to bear in that 'duel' at all. Therefore we cannot use it as material for judging him in those fields, to do so is illogical. Instead I'd draw your attention to Caedus' other duels in which he did have full use of his abilities.

Namely his confrontation with Kyle Katarn, and four other Jedi Knights. Kyle Katarn being a Jedi Battlemaster and one of the most renowned members of the New Jedi Order, which I'm sure others will confirm. In that duel Caedus effectively schooled them, Katarn was only able to have his attacks connect once, let alone actually bypass his defenses. Caedus was simply far to fast for them, micromanaging them easily, and in the end defeated them effortlessly. He also managed to fight on par and injure his grandfather, Grand Master Luke Skywalker himself.

Given that, and given that Kyle Katarn and Luke Skywalker are Mara's betters. I have no doubt that in a confrontation where Caedus could have brought his full abilities to bear, Mara Jade would have been utterly destroyed.