Got my best result with that technique now, though I've still messed sth. up in the middle:

3799,56 from Parse (3812,95 if calculated from time to kill 4:22.264)

http://www.torparse.com/a/568003/1/0/Damage+Dealt

Gear is BIS 78s except Random 78 earpiece (http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/19471e6b-c244-4c90-8c68-50a14cb05247)

Skills 11-3-32 (some are using 11-2-33)

131 Crit

470 Surge

470 Accuracy

Man that specc is fun! :-)

And once more thanks Board for your writeup, used that to refine my approach.

(BTW you're the one who taught me how to Hybrid Sling before 2.0. as well :-))

Lafayette - Marauder - 11/2/34 - 4:25 ttk

http://www.torparse.com/a/568023/4/0/Overview

3802 dps

I went with 470 acc and 470 surge, i need another full power stat acc enhancement to be minmaxed correctly tho, and a relic...

Got my best result with that technique now, though I've still messed sth. up in the middle:

 

3799,56 from Parse (3812,95 if calculated from time to kill 4:22.264)

http://www.torparse.com/a/568003/1/0/Damage+Dealt

 

Gear is BIS 78s except Random 78 earpiece (http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/19471e6b-c244-4c90-8c68-50a14cb05247)

Skills 11-3-32 (some are using 11-2-33)

131 Crit

470 Surge

470 Accuracy

 

Man that specc is fun! :-)

And once more thanks Board for your writeup, used that to refine my approach.

(BTW you're the one who taught me how to Hybrid Sling before 2.0. as well :-))

You do have the highest (so far) parse for this spec Ardarel. And i've updated the OP of the dotsmash page for it Thanks Ardarel but this dotsmash is the work of multiple people! Especially ML_Doubletap who highlighted the 100% DOT uptime trick that is unique to this spec and ofcourse the actual people who brought it to light... chattrix, attix, kbn etc.

Anyway.. any light tips on focus/rage gen? Someone asked in swtorboard about resource management but he did not have a parse to show so it's hard to compare what he did less compared to yours, xiev's or lafay's parses.

Alright, so thx und thumbsup to all people who digged that up!

And thank you for mentioning me in your guide, I'm flattered :-) If you want to, you can use my character's name, which is El'ethon.

About Rage/Focus:

One thing to do, as you mention in your guide, is keep Force Scream/Blade Storm on Cooldown, even if it's not during Heightened Power/Cascading Power, as this generally saves focus (Battle Cry/Momentum will pretty much always be up).

Apart from that, Focus/Rage is mainly a problem when you're approaching Smash/Force Sweep and you don't have enough Centering/Fury to pop Zen/Bersek during Heightened Power/Cascading Power, when you should use your hard hitters.

What I do in such a situation is, I deliberately cap Focus/Rage using Zealous Strike/Battering Assault or popping Zen/Berserk beforehand, even if I already have more than six focus - especially when I see that the free hard hitters Blade Storm/Force Scream, Master Strike/Ravage and Double Saber Throw/Twin Saber Throw are not going to be available after Smash/Force Sweep.

I also use Zealous Leap/Obliterate on high priority during Heightened Power/Cascading Power, as it hits fairly hard. That way I have one more GCD after Heightened Power/Cascading Power ends for Focus/Rage generation, before the next Smash/Force Sweep comes up. The Dominate/Felling Blow Buff lasts long enough so it will easily still be up then.

As mentioned above, I do include Double Saber Throw/Twin Saber Throw in my rotation as it simply eases Focus/Rage problems in general. If Heightened Power/Cascading Power is up and I'm Focus/Rage starved I use it rather than doing Strike/Assault.

But sometimes I'm still out of focus during Heightened Power/Cascading Power (messed sth up/bad planning), then I try to use Battering Assault/Zealous Strike early in the window to even that mistake out by spamming Slash/Vicious Slash afterwards.

Glad, if some of that might help :-)

Alright, so thx und thumbsup to all people who digged that up!

 

And thank you for mentioning me in your guide, I'm flattered :-) If you want to, you can use my character's name, which is El'ethon.

 

About Rage/Focus:

One thing to do, as you mention in your guide, is keep Force Scream/Blade Storm on Cooldown, even if it's not during Heightened Power/Cascading Power, as this generally saves focus (Battle Cry/Momentum will pretty much always be up).

Apart from that, Focus/Rage is mainly a problem when you're approaching Smash/Force Sweep and you don't have enough Centering/Fury to pop Zen/Bersek during Heightened Power/Cascading Power, when you should use your hard hitters.

What I do in such a situation is, I deliberately cap Focus/Rage using Zealous Strike/Battering Assault or popping Zen/Berserk beforehand, even if I already have more than six focus - especially when I see that the free hard hitters Blade Storm/Force Scream, Master Strike/Ravage and Double Saber Throw/Twin Saber Throw are not going to be available after Smash/Force Sweep.

I also use Zealous Leap/Obliterate on high priority during Heightened Power/Cascading Power, as it hits fairly hard. That way I have one more GCD after Heightened Power/Cascading Power ends for Focus/Rage generation, before the next Smash/Force Sweep comes up. The Dominate/Felling Blow Buff lasts long enough so it will easily still be up then.

As mentioned above, I do include Double Saber Throw/Twin Saber Throw in my rotation as it simply eases Focus/Rage problems in general. If Heightened Power/Cascading Power is up and I'm Focus/Rage starved I use it rather than doing Strike/Assault.

But sometimes I'm still out of focus during Heightened Power/Cascading Power (messed sth up/bad planning), then I try to use Battering Assault/Zealous Strike early in the window to even that mistake out by spamming Slash/Vicious Slash afterwards.

 

Glad, if some of that might help :-)

Very interesting! I think I'll have some fun playing around with this on my sentinel.

Why do I get the sneaking suspicion that 2.7 will be the great death to hybrids patch. They're killing the VG hybrids in 2.6. And this one seems like it will fall by simply tying Deadly Saber to Juyo form. I also won't be surprised when they cut the sniper hybrid down at that knees =(

Oh well! At least one more patch cycle before they touch this. I'll enjoy it while I can.

Very interesting! I think I'll have some fun playing around with this on my sentinel.

 

Why do I get the sneaking suspicion that 2.7 will be the great death to hybrids patch. They're killing the VG hybrids in 2.6. And this one seems like it will fall by simply tying Deadly Saber to Juyo form. I also won't be surprised when they cut the sniper hybrid down at that knees =(

 

Oh well! At least one more patch cycle before they touch this. I'll enjoy it while I can.

Sniper Hybrid is already nerfed.. Around 100-200 DPSish loss from Orbital nerf (is what i'm seeing people post on the forums)

I'm having trouble in raids with Bloodthirst/Inspiration leaving me focus/rage starved. Can anyone provide a good opener (without prestacking Centering/Fury via respeccing) that allows you to pop Inspiration/Bloodthirst somewhere in the beginning of a fight (to allow for a second activation in longer fights) and still do reasonable burst dps, though Zen/Berserk is not available at the same time?

Yep.. run with a non-smashdot marauder and have them do it.

All kidding aside... it's really hard to squeeze it in imo. I haven't found the sweet spot yet.

Yep.. run with a non-smashdot marauder and have them do it.

Yep, that's what Lafayette does in his raid parses, that lucky **** ;-) My fellow DPS' are a Slingers and Sages, though. Poor me...

Best I could come up with for now is:

Force Leap/Force Charge

Overload Sabre/Deadly Sabre

Zealous Strike/Battering Assault

Cauterize/Rupture

Force Sweep/Smash (how come Empire abilities ALWAYS sound so much cooler? ;-)

Master Strike/Ravage

Blade Storm/Force Scream

Strike/Assault (*bleech*)

Strike/Assault (*bleech2*)

Zealous Leap/Obliterate

Strike/Assault (*bleech3*)

Zealous Strike/Battering Assault

Cauterize/Rupture

Slash/Vicious Slash

Inspiration/Bloodthirst + Valorous Call/Frenzy + Zen/Berserk + Adrenal

Force Sweep/Smash

Ideas? Suggestions? Improvements?

Yep.. run with a non-smashdot marauder and have them do it.

 

 

All kidding aside... it's really hard to squeeze it in imo. I haven't found the sweet spot yet.

That was going to be my suggestion as well

But seriously, I haven't had a chance to play around with this spec much; I hope to this weekend. I might have a more informed position then.

Seems like the best way to avoid focus/rage starvation early on when popping inspiration is to do what all the full spec focus/rage players have had to do: respec to Combat/Carnage and prestack Centering/Fury before specing back to open the fight. Either that, or proc up before the fight and open early.

I do that for dummy parses, but in a raid situation it's a nuisance to the other group members. You'd have to be very disciplined, as to when the pull occurs and no last minute questions are allowed, so you don't lose the stacks and have to do it all over. I bet my guildies would ask me to respecc to Watchman, if I asked them to proceed that way, as they'd rather have me do 150 DPS less and have "no fuzz"-pulls ;-)

I do that for dummy parses, but in a raid situation it's a nuisance to the other group members. You'd have to be very disciplined, as to when the pull occurs and no last minute questions are allowed, so you don't lose the stacks and have to do it all over. I bet my guildies would ask me to respecc to Watchman, if I asked them to proceed that way, as they'd rather have me do 150 DPS less and have "no fuzz"-pulls ;-)

My response to them would be simply: well, you get to wait on your Inspiration then, because I'm not popping it up front. :-) That's what I tell them in Watchman, too. When I can't pre-proc Centering, I just pop my first Inspiration together with my first Zen. This works out alright, since I go Combat for any fight where the opening burst is more important than the long-term sustain, and Combat can of course pop Inspiration instantaneously.

Seriously though, if the DPS is tight enough on a fight that Inspiration is needed within the opening burst window, when everyone is getting their best numbers, then the raid group will be willing to wait for me to do a bit of prep work in order to optimize our success. If it isn't tight enough to be worth waiting, then it isn't tight enough to merit Inspiration that early.

Sniper Hybrid is already nerfed.. Around 100-200 DPSish loss from Orbital nerf (is what i'm seeing people post on the forums)

It's nerfed but it's not dead. MM took an even bigger hit, and Lethality is still trailing behind. Don't even get me started on Engineering. Hybrid will continue to be the best single target Sniper DPS spec in 2.6. I'm guessing in 2.7 we'll see a tree rework that just makes the Hybrid impossible.

You're absolutely right, current encounters are not that DPS-critical that it actually really matters :-)

I'm just still looking for a way to optimize my output without getting on everyone else's nerves, i.e. the best opener. The opener I listed is supposed to do exactly what you're suggesting: build enough centering as early as possible and then pop Valorous Call to do Inspiration and Zen simultaneously. I was just wondering if that opener has room for improvement.

Problem with changing specc is: I suck at Combat, which is why I find Dotsmash quite attractive as it has good burst as well but is not as hard to master as Combat. So I'm thinking about going Dotsmash for bursty encounters, but that doesn't make sense if my opening burst suffers from Inspiration or rather my failing to incorporate Inspiration into a decent Dotsmash opener...

*sigh*

@B'oard: I left a comment on your webpage about Singularity's buff to Smash (= double Smash damage under Zen). Another thing I noticed: I think the opener you listed only works, if you pop Zen before Double Saber Throw. Otherwise you wouldn't have enough focus for everything that comes afterwards...

And here I thought it'd be pointless to run this spec without points in Dual Wield Mastery... I'm still skeptical on that point, but the numbers don't seem to lie. I think of all the Vicious Slashes and Ravages that are "weakened" by a lower strength offhand, but compared to a 9% Damage Buff after each Smash, and a 4% Damage buff after each Berserk makes it a bit easier to swallow.

Great point about lengthening the duration of Deadly Saber, I'll have to try that out.

Also as far as fitting in Bloodthirst/Inspiration I'd have to agree that the best way to implement is to wait till you build 30 fury, pop berserk, pop fury and then pop bloodthirst. Only viable way if you're on your own IMO.

Also, this is a strange finding. I've been starting off my parses with Bloodthirst as well as an Attack Adrenal, followed by Fury and Berserk and I've found that I get better numbers if I build up to the bloodthirst. Has anyone else noticed that?

As far as the spec getting nerfed, I wouldn't be surprised. I'll probably just Roll Annihilation after this, unless they buff my dear Rage tree so it can keep up. *fingers crossed.*

And here I thought it'd be pointless to run this spec without points in Dual Wield Mastery... I'm still skeptical on that point, but the numbers don't seem to lie. I think of all the Vicious Slashes and Ravages that are "weakened" by a lower strength offhand, but compared to a 9% Damage Buff after each Smash, and a 4% Damage buff after each Berserk makes it a bit easier to swallow.

That's exactly what I thought when I first saw that specc. It becomes clear, why it works, if you look at the top DPS abilities, when you play that specc:

Force Sweep/Smash <- Force Attack, not affected by Offhand dmg

Burning/Bleeding <- not affected by Offhand dmg

Slash(Visious) Slash <- Buffed by Force Lash / ???, additional damage with each hit

Master Strike / Ravage -> Affected by missing offhand bonus DMG

Zealous Leap / Obliterate -> Affected by missing offhand bonus DMG

Blade Storm / Force Scream <- Force Attack

Cauterize / Rupture <- mostly burn/bleed attack

Plus: The Surge push you get from Focused Resonance helps makes up for the loss on dual wield attacks, especially if you don't run a pure power build, but use a little crit. My melee surge is sitting at a whopping 87,96!

Have fun playing it! :-)

http://www.swtor.com/r/yLnxcK lock at this epic fail:eek:

Referal spam, watch out (hell, he didn't even bother hiding it this time)

Refined my rotation a bit more and got lucky on crits, too:

TTK 4m 13.744 s = 3940,98

http://www.torparse.com/a/576633/time/1391498117/1391498372/0/Damage+Dealt

Refined my rotation a bit more and got lucky on crits, too:

 

TTK 4m 13.744 s = 3940,98

http://www.torparse.com/a/576633/time/1391498117/1391498372/0/Damage+Dealt

Damn Ardarel >_>, that is higher than the HIGH END of Hybrid pre-nerf Sniper and Gunslinger parses. Any tips and little details you want to add?

Remember the Hybrid Sniper thread in the sniper forums,, if you could write somethinglike that for the dotsmash spec, what little details would you add?

3900 dps.... T_T

Damn Ardarel >_>, that is higher than the HIGH END of Hybrid pre-nerf Sniper and Gunslinger parses. Any tips and little details you want to add?

 

Remember the Hybrid Sniper thread in the sniper forums,, if you could write somethinglike that for the dotsmash spec, what little details would you add?

 

3900 dps.... T_T

Man, I’m surprised by those numbers myself!

(It’s actually 3940.48 if calculated from Time to kill (Torparse clipped the killing blow) and 3927.28, if the time in Torparse is adjusted so the killing blow is included, which clicking on the fight does not do)

I’ll gladly try to describe what I changed in my rotation. Basically I studied what’s listed in the Marauder guide on Dulfy’s website for that (so thanks to the authors for their input), tried some stuff and adapted it a bit.

It’s obviously very important what you do in the Heightened Power window. I tried to make some “rules” for me for that and added some more thoughts on focus management:

• 6 seconds of Heightened Power theoretically equals 4 GCDs after Force Sweep. BUT the only ability that might still make it in those 6 secs is Blade Storm, if it’s used in the 4th spot. Every other ability’s delay of damage after activation is so high, that its main hand hit will very likely be outside Heightened Power. Even Blade Storm can be too late, depending on APM and lag. (That part is very much like the precision windows in Combat)
   
   
  
• Your best ability in Heightened Power is Master Strike for two reasons:
  1. It shortens the third GCD, if you clip it after roughly 2,7 seconds (i.e. after the third hit happens) as a Sent/Guardian should always do, and thus allows the ability in 4th GCD to deal damage in time - ideally this should be Bladestrom (see above).
  2. It’s the ability that has the greatest benefit from Heightened Power. Therefore if I can’t use it under Heightened Power in the first or second GCD, I will delay it until the next Heightened Power window. (Except I’m absolutely focus starved (avoid!!) - then I might even use it as a filler.)
   
   
  
• The best abilities to start the Heightened Power windows are in this order: Dispatch, Zealous Leap, Slash. So the very best window would be: Dispatch + Master Strike (clipped) + Blade Storm (still under Heightened Power)
   
   
  
• If Master Strike is not up, you will try to do 4 abilities under Heightened Power with Blade Storm ideally being the last. The priority for those first 3 GCDs is: Dispatch, Zealous Leap (for DMG and early Felling Blow buff), Slash, Double Saber Throw. You will need some luck though, to fit Blade Storm in Heightened Power with 3 “real” GCDs before, i.e. with no clipped and thus shortened Master Strike in GCDs 2 and 3.
  The decision which ability to use is not only determined by its DPS, but often by available focus (mostly the lack of it ;-), which is why Double Saber Throw has its place in this priority.
  Sometimes, if you’re out of focus, it even makes sense to put Strike or Zealous Strike in GCD 3, so it’s done under Heightened Power and then follow up with Blade Storm under Heightened Power. (Otherwise it’d be Blade Storm in GCD 3 with Heightened Power but Strike/Zealous Strike outside of it.) This only makes sense, if you’re sure that you will get the last Blade Storm in. So you have to check out the Heightened Power buff ticking down and decide if Blade Storm has a chance to fit in or not.
  Note: Zealous Leap should be done early in Heightened Power: It does good enough damage to be included in Heightened Power and you risk delaying Force Sweep, if you have to squeeze Zealous Leap in after Heightened Power has ended for the Felling Blow buff, especially if you also want to squeeze in Cauterize before your next Force Sweep (see next paragraph)
   
   
  
• Cauterize. That one’s tricky. What I do atm, and I’m not sure if this is optimal, is this: In a perfect world, it should be used directly or shortly before Force Sweep. But in the flow of the rotation this often means either delaying Force Sweep or going into your Force Sweep/Heightened Power window focus starved. In those cases I do Force Sweep off Cooldown and make Cauterize highest priority in GCD 1 or 2 after it. If I can’t use Cauterize there, because it comes off Cooldown only to be used in Heightened Power GCD 3 or 4, I won’t use it and rather delay Cauterize to be used before the next Force Sweep or shortly after it (if focus management will have it that way).
   
   
  
• Forget about everything I wrote above, if you’re focus starved but high on centering. I will use ANY ability that I can afford, to push myself to 30 Centering at any point of the rotation and pop Zen and thus “save” my next Heightened Power window. I will even “waste” the precious Blade storm outside of Heightened Power (as it’s free but still gives Centering) or I’ll put Cauterize in the “forbidden” GCDs 3 or 4 in Heightened Power (as it only costs 2 Focus on activation, Slash/Dispatch is 3 initially) or both of them elsewhere, if this allows Zen-Usage immediately afterwards.
   
   
  
• Overload Saber HAS to be on Cooldown. Even if it ruins everything I’ve described above. Always pop it, no excuses, even do Strikes, if need be.
  

I find it rather difficult to do all that without running out of focus. The problem is, that you’re basically using the resource pool of the Focus tree, which is designed for the use of Force Exhaustion, which, unlike Overload Saber, is not off the GCD. In Hybrid Overload Saber is the second most important ability to be strictly kept on Cooldown and you have to plan ahead for those 3 Focus to be spent off the GCD.

TBH, doing that parse had me concentrating on the flow of abilities, priorities and focus management to a degree that I could hardly afford/execute in a raid situation. And I still messed up parts of it. There’s a lot of learning/experience to be gained for me here. Luckily the specc gives quite good results, even if your rotation is not optimized, as long as you simply keep your key abilities on Cooldown…

And please keep in mind that I’ve always been playing with more crit rating on my Sent (131) than is mathematically advisable, and that parse is certainly a lucky one concerning crits.

Have fun, fellow Dotsmashers! :-)