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ZooMzy's Avatar

12.24.2013 , 10:53 AM | #18
Thank you all, I really appreciate and enjoy seeing this amazing amount of advice. I have picked up on a lot of things, and I'm eager to look into trying various new ideas, such as perhaps, encouraging our players to be leaders themselves and having our healers be more vocal on what went wrong.

But this next bit I find as key:

Quote: Originally Posted by Jerba View Post
Also, players in top world progression guilds don't need a raid leader to tell them what went wrong. They are seeing their mistakes by themselves, or can identify errors that the raid leader did not see.
I know that in my group the players are not able to do this themselves, so I keep an eye on everyone and call out mechanics during the fight. In your group, it looks like you also need a raid leader who watches the group, who tells each person what they did wrong, since your players do not see this themselves.
And that's what I believe the big issue is. I've read through posts here, and the ones calling for you to know when to quit are actually extremely logical. It is sad really, as we have been clearing content since the days when EC HM was the frontier of progression raiding.

But my desire to clear content does not outweigh my desire to see it done with friends, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to get it done with this group. And the difference right there in that quote is what I personally believe can make a team great.

Raid leaders are important, yes. But their job should only be when the group isn't in the fight itself. Call outs, reminders, pretty much anything that results in someone relying on the command of another restricts the most important thing I believe people need for raids: adaptability.

This is something I strongly believe is applicable for PvP as well, because I have competed in a few ranked scenes where I was the leader. And back in those matches, I tried to avoid ever calling things out, as the type of response needed in those matches was way too fast for even VC. The matches where I voiced movement, who to target and etc. ended in defeat. I picked up that tactic actually when I was asked to help fill an 8th person role in an ITK pug group back when they still played on BC. No one really spoke, no one called out who to focus fire and who to guard. Only the call out that the guard was swapping, and the very rare curse when someone would die.

Every single member has to see things coming, and what I have learned is the many who rely on call outs are also surprised mechanic after mechanic, resulting in loss of DPS, heals, and you'll know when a tank is surprised by a mechanic change up versus one who adapts. This is why I also believe that in terms of raw talent, the best players in the game come from the top of the WZs. Anyone who can master healing, DPSing with a single target damage spec, and knows how to tank in one as well, already has a huge advantage going into an op because success in a WZ is all about overcoming the side that is directly trying to shut you down.

Which I feel that my group ultimately lacks heavily in adaptability, which would explain why we wipe do much on a boss before clearing him. We need to execute the mechanic flawlessly for us to pass it, otherwise we wipe and fail. It would explain why we have NiM EC as an Achilles' heel (we literally passed Warstalker with two minutes to spare with our main group), as the mechanics are tuned to require real time responses, and our group seems to lack a capability of "learning as we go".