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12.23.2013 , 04:41 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by ZooMzy View Post
So after scouring the forums here, I have been wondering on what the community thinks about how you become a good progression guild. Many of the threads I have read through talk about the individual pieces of the group, where many people are keen to write posts and make comments on how to be a good player.

But after seeing all the posts that detail rotations, class specs, various healing/DPS strategies, etc., there was only one piece of useful information I could find in regards to being a good raider no matter your role:

Be a contributor.

How does one exactly do this? Just so you guys have a little bit of a background check on me, I raid with a guild currently on Begeren Colony. We are a solid 8 man group, where most of us are heavily min maxed with fully purple augmented top tier gear (78s).

How we do progression is quite honestly something I dare say is, inefficient. Our group will spend two nights a week, bashing our heads against one particular boss from 6:30 PM PST to 9:30 PM PST, and we won't down a boss until we know every single little in and out of their mechanics. It took us one week to down Nefra in HM, three weeks for Gate Commander Draxus, another two weeks for Grob'thok, and we have spent 3 weeks on Corruptor Zero without getting him below 75%.

So what exactly is our problem there? I have been watching raid clear videos, trying to understand how these top end progression raid groups clear this content. And one bit of evidence I noted, was that the members rarely used voice chat. Most of the run is silent, with only the essential mechanics being called out.

With this evidence in mind, I talked to the GM of the guild and came up with a possible exercise to capitalize on this weakness: running an operation that is difficult in mechanics, yet not strenuous in regards to DPS/healing/damage medigation without the use of our Mumble chat. With the perfect setup in mind, we took our progression group into EC NiM and began to run the mechanics for each boss.

It took us three hours, to down Firebrand and Stormcaller after repeatedly wiping over and over again on them. We spent four wipes on Zorn and Toth due to DPS dying from Fearful, and even some people forgetting to pop medpacs at the beginning of the fight.

Which clearly put, the problem there is raid awareness. Which despite the lack of any comment beyond "don't stand in stupid, call things out", I rarely see anyone discussing either. It's been about three weeks since we've tried that op, and since then, I haven't seen any improvement. Even a sharp decline as a matter of fact, in raid capability.

So how do you train people to be more raid aware? How do you form a tight knit progression team that can clear content without having to spend months on a single boss in the raid? What are your own secrets as to how to be a great raider?

I would appreciate any response, thank you!
For most people I feel having a good progression team just takes time, especially if a lot of the team is experienced in running hardmode operations. When my group started raiding a year ago, every single one of us were new to raiding, and it took us about a month to clear Hardmode Zorn and Toth, and maybe 2-3 weeks to clear the tanks and we were all over geared. But I think being competitive is very important, but not to the point where you start ignoring mechanics to achieve the best numbers. They way I look at progression raiding is that its a team activity and not individual. When parsing and we have 1 dps 100 dps below everyone else, I say its the team's job to make up the 100 dps and not that individual(but if someone is 400+ behind then there may be a problem). At the time all the DPS in my group were practicing on the dummy during our off time because we were hitting enrage on Z&T.

To your question, which I dont think people have answered, I do not think you can easily train raid awareness. When people mess up in raids its either because they are not paying attention(intentional or not), have slow reaction times or they do not know the mechanics. I know you say you are watching videos but are the other 7 people in your group doing so? If everyone truly knows the mechanics and what to do, then you shouldn't be wiping as much. My group went into NiM SV after 2.4 and most of the group hadn't touched nim before at gear level, but people looked up the mechanics and we 1 shot every boss but Thrasher and Styrak.

Lastly, being from BC I understand how difficult it is to find people to raid with. When I was recruiting replacements for my raid team, a lot of people perceived me as having a very elitist attitude because I was very picky with who I would pick up for my raid team. Usually the biggest requirement I would have would be raid awareness and A LOT of people lack that on BC and dont understand why they cant to hardmode stuff, I turned down people every week because I did not feel they were ready/prepared to do hardmode stuff, and I made a lot of enemies when I told people I didnt think they were good enough.

TLR It takes time, being raid leader you should know who is messing up all the time. You can only give someone so many chances before you give them the boot.
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