So effectively you'd have to one shot him. With a sniper.

 

Nihilus is a Force Wound, he is draining the life force of others around him all the time. All he has to do is think to devour you, the whole orange lightning thing is a game mechanic and not a very consistent one.

 

There is no chance of destroying a Force Wound, without it attempting to devour you.

Yes he does, but someone could still kill him before he effectively killed the person. It's not like the moment someone enters his range, they are gonna be killed.

Yes he does, but someone could still kill him before he effectively killed the person.

Just look at Darth Traya, she didn't stand a chance. And in cut content Darth Sion was slapped down to.

Anyone who attempts to attack Nihilus, who attempts to close the distance will be struck, before they reach him, with the full force of Nihilus' hunger - and they will be devoured, unless they are immune. If they are not, they will die.

This is not a slow acting effect, Nihilus can drop you on the spot. He is very very hungry, and he wants to eat you.

This is also based on the assumption that Nihilus is a defenseless chump, he is not. All that power he possess he is capable of channeling into his lightsaber sequence like any other Force User - that means augmented speed, strength and agility. Just remember that even when Meetra weakened him, and he was being attacked from all sides, Visas believed him to be "too powerful" and they engaged in a prolonged struggle.

Also remembering that in lightsaber duels, the first strike is usually the last. Rarely do opponents land considerably hits in the opening bout, only after a prolonged struggle, and that usually ends the duel. So its unlikely they'll destroy his armor quick enough, assuming he is a balloon and would just leak out - I doubt that.

Unless its Darth Sidious himself, that person would be obliterated on the spot. LITERALLY.

 

Just look at Darth Traya, she didn't stand a chance. And in cut content Darth Sion was slapped down to.

 

Anyone who attempts to attack Nihilus, who attempts to close the distance will be struck, before they reach him, with the full force of Nihilus' hunger - and they will be devoured, unless they are immune. If they are not, they will die.

 

This is not a slow acting effect, Nihilus can drop you on the spot. He is very very hungry, and he wants to eat you.

 

This is also based on the assumption that Nihilus is a defenseless chump, he is not. All that power he possess he is capable of channeling into his lightsaber sequence like any other Force User - that means augmented speed, strength and agility. Just remember that even when Meetra weakened him, and he was being attacked from all sides, Visas believed him to be "too powerful" and they engaged in a prolonged struggle.

 

Also remembering that in lightsaber duels, the first strike is usually the last. Rarely do opponents land considerably hits in the opening bout, only after a prolonged struggle, and that usually ends the duel. So its unlikely they'll destroy his armor quick enough, assuming he is a balloon and would just leak out - I doubt that.

Or Luke, but none of them have ever displayed the speed that Luke, Sidious or Yoda have. I don't think Nihilus would be able to react at all to any of them to defend himself that is.

Unless its Darth Sidious himself, that person would be obliterated on the spot. LITERALLY.

 

Just look at Darth Traya, she didn't stand a chance. And in cut content Darth Sion was slapped down to.

 

Anyone who attempts to attack Nihilus, who attempts to close the distance will be struck, before they reach him, with the full force of Nihilus' hunger - and they will be devoured, unless they are immune. If they are not, they will die.

 

This is not a slow acting effect, Nihilus can drop you on the spot. He is very very hungry, and he wants to eat you.

 

This is also based on the assumption that Nihilus is a defenseless chump, he is not. All that power he possess he is capable of channeling into his lightsaber sequence like any other Force User - that means augmented speed, strength and agility. Just remember that even when Meetra weakened him, and he was being attacked from all sides, Visas believed him to be "too powerful" and they engaged in a prolonged struggle.

 

Also remembering that in lightsaber duels, the first strike is usually the last. Rarely do opponents land considerably hits in the opening bout, only after a prolonged struggle, and that usually ends the duel. So its unlikely they'll destroy his armor quick enough, assuming he is a balloon and would just leak out - I doubt that.

Know what would be hilarious though? If a squad of elite fighters (non-force users) were all equiped with ysimialir or however you spell it. How would that play out? Or since he is a wound in the force and he devours force, would it have no effect at all? (Ofc, he could just throw things at them instead or slice them... but his main ability might be disabled)

Or Luke, but none of them have ever displayed the speed that Luke, Sidious or Yoda have. I don't think Nihilus would be able to react at all to any of them to defend himself that is.

Nihilus has immense amounts of power at his disposal, likely in the same league if not on par with those individuals.

Also consider that Nihilus is a Force Wound, he cannot be sensed, he cannot be predicted. He is invisible in the Force.

Many individuals have been able to react to Luke, Sidious' and Yoda's speed fast enough not to get insta-killed. We are not dealing with members of the Jedi High Council here, far far from it.

 

Nihilus has immense amounts of power at his disposal, likely in the same league if not on par with those individuals.

 

Also consider that Nihilus is a Force Wound, he cannot be sensed, he cannot be predicted. He is invisible in the Force.

Except Nihilus hasn't shown any reaction feats on par that could even suggest he could react to Luke, Sidious or Yoda.

Know what would be hilarious though? If a squad of elite fighters (non-force users) were all equiped with ysimialir or however you spell it. How would that play out? Or since he is a wound in the force and he devours force, would it have no effect at all? (Ofc, he could just throw things at them instead or slice them... but his main ability might be disabled)

Except Nihilus hasn't shown any reaction feats on par that could even suggest he could react to Luke, Sidious or Yoda.

Nihilus is immensely powerful.

The speed, strength and agility of Force Users is achieved by channeling Force Energy.

Nihilus is therefore immensely fast, strong and agile.

Just because he hasn't doesn't be he lacks them.

 

Nihilus is immensely powerful.

 

The speed, strength and agility of Force Users is achieved by channeling Force Energy.

 

Nihilus is therefore immensely fast, strong and agile.

You can't just assume that Beni...he hasn't shown anything in regards to that.

You can't just assume that Beni...he hasn't shown anything in regards to that.

On the other hand, you cannot assume he is not fast based on an absence of feats.

Game mechanics are not capable of demonstrating these things.

Just because he hasn't doesn't be he lacks them.

 

Nihilus is immensely powerful.

 

The speed, strength and agility of Force Users is achieved by channeling Force Energy.

 

Nihilus is therefore immensely fast, strong and agile.

To me, he seems to almost perfectly match the "Evil Overlord" stereotype where he uses little of his power and is generally in the backround being evil...but when you piss him off he goes full power and tries to obliterate you.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Darth+Nihilus&client=firefox-a&hs=20l&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=QO2wUtLuMI67oQSE0IHwAw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=589#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=nqeOm9WlWuiecM%3A%3BFnojC6qgYBT-xM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ffc08.deviantart.net%252Ffs70%252Ff%252F2012%252F182%252Fd%252Fe%252Fdarth_nihilus____tag_by_3dblenderrender-d55mqjf.png%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F3dblenderrender.deviantart.com%252Fart%252FDarth-Nihilus-Tag-311789787%3B640%3B400

I can, find me some examples of where that logic does not work.

 

On the other hand, you cannot assume he is not fast based on an absence of feats.

 

Game mechanics are not capable of demonstrating these things.

I know, I never said he couldn't be fast. Just that he is not gonna be as fast as Yoda, Luke or Sidious. But anyway let us drop this yeah? There are more important things here..

I'm confused as to Rahm Kota's significance here.

You argued earlier in this thread that Sidious would dismiss Revan quickly and this is why I reminded you that Revan is not Kota and will put up much better fight. Read the entire response below.

But regardless I have already demonstrated how Sidious' lightning has proven too powerful for those wielding even the most stalwart and extraordinary of defenses.

 

Firstly Mace Windu, who attempted to block Sidious' lightning with his lightsaber using Vaapad by creating a superconducting loop. This technique it should be noted is the most advanced method of blocking Force lightning that we are currently aware of in Star Wars mythos, because instead of simply stopping the energy, it absorbs that energy and uses it to sustain the defense. Theoretically creating a never-ending loop that would allow the Force user to hold off such an assault indefinitely. Mace Windu was THE master of this particular form and furthermore in his engagement with Sidious his mastery over this style reached new and previously unreachable levels:

 

Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts. There was no Jedi restraint here. Mace Windu was cutting loose.

 

Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being. Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center—

 

And let it fountain out again. He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.

Windu only being capable of this because the revelation that Sidious was a Sith Lord, that the Republic he fought for had been a complete lie, created an inner darkness in him that he forged into a weapon:

 

Anakin's revelation—that Palpatine and Darth Sidious are one and the same—hollows Mace to the core. Not days earlier, he and other Jedi had risked their lives against Grievous's droid forces to prevent Palpatine from being abducted. Grasping that the abduction and the war itself has been nothing more than a deception, Mace leaps into action, promising to take Palpatine into Jedi custody, dead or alive.

Hence the "poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts". Windu uses the shock of this revelation to make him form even more deadly than before. This is Vaapad at its most extreme and most deadly level, and as a result is able to conduct more energy. Hence why Windu was able to fight Sidious in the first place.

 

Indeed I just want to emphasis how powerful Windu's form was at this time:

 

Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.

It is so powerful and so potent that his own weapon is creating a visible aura. Demonstrating an incredibly affinity between Windu's blade and his own power - or rather the power of Sidious that he was charging it with.

 

And yet:

Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

 

Palpatine's eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him."

 

"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny."

Despite wielding a form specifically geared towards combating the dark side, and channelling dark side energy, and despite Windu being more deeply submerged in Vaapad than he ever was before, Sidious' full power still proved to great for him to handle. It overloaded his superconducting loop. This is quite a clear demonstration of just how dominating Sidious can be, if he is capable of overwhelming such a powerful defense.

 

So lets apply this to Revan, Revan does not possess the advantage of Vaapad. His connection to his weapon is simply not as potent, never has Revan's blade ever created its own aura and never has Revan been noted to be capable of creating superconducting loops - noting that this form had not been invented until Windu perfected Juyo. Nor does bringing Revan's own dominant Force abilities have relevance here, given that Windu through Vaapad had increased his own power to Sidious' level - unless we are about to argue that Revan is equal to Sidious. I sincerely hope not. But I digress, the point is that Revan simply is not capable of channeling the full force of his own power, let alone the power of Darth Sidious into his blade, or rather into the defensive maneuver of blocking one's blade with the Force.

1. Revan does not needs Vaapad because he possesses other ways to counter Sith lightning; his mastery of Tutaminis (much like Yoda). Mace created Vaapad to address some of his weaknesses and shortcomings and Revan does not share his weaknesses and shortcomings.

2. Revan's connection to his weapon is not as potent? What is this supposed to mean? So anybody who does not have Vaapad fits this assumption including Yoda and Luke?

3. What are you trying to imply with the word "aura" here? It is just a stylistic choice to describe Windu's actions much like blur, flash of light and vice versa.

4. Revan have shown superior ability to tank Sith lightning with his power and capabilities than any other Jedi; he is likely very close to Yoda in raw power aspect and possesses relatively superior command of Tutaminis, he effortlessly tanked Sith lightning potent enough to quickly reduce even powerful Force-users to ash.*

*Proficiency in Sith lightning is dependent on following:-

- Specialization in the technique

- Raw power

- Emotions such as hatred

- Proficiency in Sith Sorcery?*

*Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia reveals this factor as one of the determinants.

Simply put, any defense he erects with his lightsaber will be inferior to that of Windu's. This we can affirm with logical certainty. So what will happen if Revan were to attempt to block Sidious' lightning with his blade?

 

Well firstly lets look at what happens when Revan attempts to block the Sith Emperor's lightning with his lightsaber:

Revan intercepted the bolt with the blade of his lightsaber, but the impact stopped his charge dead in its tracks.

Revan is stopped in his tracks. This would strongly indicate that the power he was dealing with here was difficult for him to handle, given that Kenobi when blocking Count Dooku's lightning did so without impact. An altogether it shows that even Revan struggles to absorb lightning with his lightsaber from powerful opponents such as the Emperor. Now if we are to assume that the Sith Emperor and Darth Sidious are in a similar league, one would assume that a bolt of Sidious' lightning would have similar stopping power.

 

Yet we need not assume, as Sidious' demonstrates the power of his lightning here.

1. Revan was not moving when he tanked Nyriss's Sith lightning. Whether he would be able to charge while tanking Sidious's lightning or not, is not the focal aspect of my argument. Yes, it is possible that these (normal) lightning bursts from Sith Emperor were even more lethal then the (signature) lightning bursts of Nyriss.

2. Kenobi was not moving when he used his lightsaber to absorb Sith lightning from Dooku, if battle of Geonosis based event is being considered here.

3. Revan struggles to absorb Sith lightning of even an incredibly powerful Force-user with his lightsaber? Really?

Revan intercepted the bolt with the blade of his lightsaber, though the impact stopped his charge dead in its tracks.

The Emperor unleashed three more bolts in quick succession. Revan batted the first aside with his lightsaber, ducked the second, then deflected the third back in the direction of its source.

It struck the Emperor in the chest, sending him sliding several meters back on the floor. (From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

Sidious unleashes a stream of lightning, which seems not to dissimilar to the "bolt of dark side energy" that the Sith Emperor hurtles at Revan. There is certainly something to be said about the different between proximity, but ultimately we have here is Sidious' lightning proving powerful enough to thrust Yoda's lightsaber from his grasp when he attempts to block the attack. Yoda who is confirmed by multiple canon sources to be the most powerful practitioner of the light side and most powerful Jedi in existence at that point, or rather more powerful than Revan.

 

Yoda is also a good example of what Sidious' lightning does to a Jedi who does not have Vaapad.

 

Combine that with the fact that Revan has struggled to deflect the impact of a lighting blast before, and the fact that a constant stream of energy eventually proved too powerful for the ultimate expression of Vaapad, and it is more than likely that if Revan was forced to block even a blast of Sidious' lightning, he would do so with great difficulty, and his lightsaber may well be wrenched from his grasp as Yoda's was.

Information presented above suggests a different picture of this matter in comparison.

Revan doesn't really struggles at containing bursts of Sith lightning which are potent and dangerous enough to quickly reduce even powerful Force-users to ash. The only time he was outclassed in this respect was when Sith Emperor unleashed what is described as "a swirling storm of pure dark side energy" at him, something on par with lethal bursts of Sith Sorcery which represent purest expressions of the dark side. This particular expression of the dark side from Sith Emperor is implied to be much more powerful and potent then a stream of Sith lightning already potent enough to quickly reduce even powerful Force-users to ash, which suggests that a Force-user of lesser capability then Revan might have been all but atomized by it in the span of duration of Revan's experience with it.

This gives Sidious a massive advantage, because before Revan can even engage him its highly possible that he may be overwhelmed before he gets close, or rather thrown of guard if Sidious chooses to chain such an attack into his lightsaber sequence, which would certainly leave him open to a fatal blow.

No.

Revan can not just unleash powerful waves on moment's notice but can also deflect even extremely powerful bursts of Sith lightning back at its source without difficulty. Heck, he can even dodge Sith lightning bolts if he wants to, he is so fast.

Now lets look at deflecting lightning in terms of tutaminis, or rather with one's hands. As you pointed out Revan was capable of blocking Nyriss' storm of dark side energy and redirecting it with ease. Yet Nyriss' power cannot be compared with that of Sidious, who instead is more comparable to the Sith Emperor. As the novel remarks:

Revan knew he was gathering his power to unleash a swirling storm of pure dark side energy, just as Nyriss had done...a dozen bolts of purple lightning arced from the Emperor toward him. Revan tried to draw them in and contain them, but the Emperor was infinitely more powerful than Darth Nyriss had ever been.

So instead of effortless batting them aside:

Revan's body was engulfed in agony as the electricity coursed through his body, his skin began to boil and blister, the flesh on his face melting and sticking to the super-heated metal of his mask as the Emperor poured more and more power into him.

But we aren't talking about the Emperor's power here, we are talking

Covered above.

Nyriss's Sith lightning is likely to cause great agony and pain to anybody who does not matches Revan's expertise in countering Sith lightning. Just a single (normal) burst from Nyriss reduced two guards to ash upon contact:

A burst of purple lightning arced down the steps, catching both men in the chest. They barely had time to scream before they were turned into charred and smoking husks. (From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

Nyriss's (signature) bursts were much more potent then her (normal) bursts, capable of quickly reducing even powerful Force-users at ash like herself. In comparison Sidious is known to have simultaneously reduced 3 Force-users of unknown power to charred husks, kill one Jedi and badly injure another (none of these opponents are as powerful as Nyriss by the way). As strange as this may seem, Nyriss's command of Sith lightning is enormous even by mythos standards which could be a product of her proficiency in the matters of Sith Sorcery. Once again, ground realities are not black and white in these matters and caution is advised when comparisons are made.

There are two instances in which an individual has attempted to block Darth Sidious' lightning. The first was done by Yoda, the most powerful Jedi of his day. And while Yoda, unlike Revan, was able to contain the lightining, he was ultimately overwhelmed:

The end came with astonishing suddenness. The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength.

And remember who we are concerning ourselves with here, Grand Master Yoda, the then most powerful expression of the light side of the Force. He wields immense power and almost certainly more power than Revan.

See above.

Now lets look at the next example, Galen Marek, for example of how a Force User weaker than Galen Marek would fare against the full force of Darth Sidious' lightning. Here's an excerpt:

Without hesitation, he stepped between Kota and the Emperor, taking the full brunt of the Sith lightning into his own body.

 

The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed standing, seeing a world through a crackling blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.

 

...

 

Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the Emperor's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to.

 

A squadron of stormtroopers ran into the room, led by a limping Darth Vader. The raised their blasters to gun down the Rebels as they fled up the Rogue Shadow's ramp.

 

"No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses one last time to strike one last time at the Imperials. Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava.

 

He saw rather than felt the massive shock wave that consumed a large portion of what remained of the observation dome. A glowing bubble of fire tore the stormtroopers to shreds and engulfed Vader and the Emperor. Shrapnel filled the air like dust caught in the beam of the Death Star's powerful laser.

Now, Marek was able to catch Sidious' lightning, however clearly it proved too much for him, undergoing similar pain to which Revan felt, perhaps even greater. It was only through sheer will and the the power of Oneness, that Marek was capable of pushing the lightning back at Sidious and blasting him away, but this act killed him. Yet ultimately Sidious recovered quickly and seemed unharmed.

Actually, Marek gave up his own life to save his allies from the pursuit of Sidious's troops. Marek intended to unleash a blast of such magnitude that all of those pursuing troops would die from it and his allies would manage to escape.

And lets not forget the sheer agony that Marek was in, a mere taste of that pain brought Revan to his knees:

The Jedi collapsed to the ground, burned but still alive...almost two weak to move.

The pain he'll experience here will be even worse, I doubt he can draw on the willpower that Marek did, and even if he could he'd be totally destroyed either way.

Covered above.

You are seriously trying to compare Emperor Vitiate's most lethal expression of lightning with that of Sidious's? Absurd comparison.

Try to comprehend this:

Nyriss's normal lightning (capable of utterly destroying people) <<<<<< Nyriss's signature lightning (capable of utterly destroying even powerful Force-users) < Vitiate's normal lightning <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Vitiate's signature lightning (purest expression of the dark side lethal enough to utterly destroy even the most powerful Jedi).

We should also consider just how powerful Marek is, Haden Blackman, the Lead Writer for the TFU project gives an interesting insight into this:

The Apprentice is the photo negative of Luke Skywalker. He's been raised by Darth Vader, and is what Luke would have become if he had joined his father. Vader's not a very nice daddy. This guy has been raised to be a Jedi. When the Jedi use the Force, they respect it and don't overuse it. The bad guys—the Sith—keep testing their limits. Vader discovered this person who had the potential to be the most powerful Force user ever. He's up there with the top tier. He's extremely powerful. Vader has trained him in such a way that he just kept pushing his limitations, seeing how far he could use the Force. So, where a normal Jedi might use the Force to trick his way past a few stormtroopers, the apprentice might use the Force to bring down an adjacent building on top of those stormtroopers. He's extremely confident in everything he does. He's been trained by Vader to be an assassin, an unstoppable force.

He is an incredibly powerful and gifted Force User with amazing potential, and his demonstrations are nothing other than extraordinary. He most impressive feat being when he redirected the flight path of a Star Destroyer:

"Concentrate on what's important, boy. That Star Destroyer is coming down fast. You'll never get clear in time. You need to pull it into the cannon."

 

The apprentice was temporarily lost for words when he realized what Kota was suggesting.

 

Kota wanted him to move the Star Destroyer using nothing but the Force.

 

"You're insane," he gasped. "It's massive!" "What is mass?" Kota said. "It's all in your mind, boy. You're a Jedi! Size means nothing to you!"

 

Kota's voice had changed. The surly, drunken slur was completely absent; in its place was the durasteel bark of the seasoned combat veteran the apprentice had first met.

 

"Can you hear me, boy? Reach out and grab that ship, or you'll die on this trash heap!"

 

The Star Destroyer was growing visibly larger and hung like a burning, triangular moon low in the sky of Raxus Prime.

 

You're a Jedi! Size means nothing to you!

 

He wasn't a Jedi but the message was the same. The Force didn't recognize big or small, heavy or light, hard or easy. The living flows of the galaxy encompassed all scales, from the very small to the extremely large. The Star Destroyer was part of it, and so was he. The Force bound them as surely as gravity. He could make its invisible muscles flex, if he dared.

 

Had his Master ever done anything like this Had the Emperor? Had any Sith or Jedi in the history of the galaxy?

 

He doubted anyone would ever know about his success or failure in the next few minutes. "Be quick about it, boy!"

 

Fast or slow were also irrelevant to the Force, but the apprentice took Kota's point. The sooner he started, the sooner it would be done.

 

Deactivating his lightsaber and attaching the hilt to his belt, he adopted the opening stance of the Soresu form, with his right arm and fingers outstretched, pointing at the Star Destroyer. His empty left hand he tucked in next to his heart. With his legs braced firmly in the trash, he reached as deep as he had ever reached into the Force, and then went farther still, feeling as though a mighty chasm had opened up under him and his mind and will plunged down into it. The chasm filled. His mind opened. The physical existence of the Star Destroyer slid painlessly inside.

 

Nearly sixteen hundred meters long and capable of carrying a crew in excess of thirty-seven thousand, the ship was a familiar design. Its engines and armament weren't fully installed, but its Class One hyperdrive would have taken it anywhere in the Empire at speed, there to deploy walkers, fighters, barges, and shuttle Armed with a host of turbolaser and ion cannons, plus no less than ten tractor beams, it could have blockaded an entire system on its own. The reinforced durasteel hull was solid enough to rip a gouge in Raxus Prime that might take centuries to fill. Scavenger droids would have a field day when it came down. Wherever it went down . . .

 

There is no wherever, he told himself. There is only where I tell it to.

 

Focus.

 

The tip of his right index finger and the Star Destroyer became as one in his mind. Every nut and bolt and plate and wire of the massive machine was contained within that tiny space. It wasn't hard to move an arm, a finger, a single human cell. He could direct one barely without thinking, so why not the other, too? Instinct was clearer on that point than the workings of his mind. Ignoring perspective, the two were about the same size in his field of vision.

 

Except the Star Destroyer was growing larger with each passing second, and waves of TIE fighters and TIE bombers were pouring forth from its brand-new hangar decks. Laserfire cut huge super-hot channels through the atmosphere ahead of them.

 

The apprentice ignored it all. While the illusion held, he moved his hand a very slight distance to his right. The sensation of containing a vast, million-ton machine in the tip of one finger was deeply disorienting. He felt as though every muscle fiber, nerve, and bone groaned along with the metal seams and joints of the ship. What it felt, he felt, too, and even a small acceleration had a profound effect on such a large scale. It resisted with all the momentum it possessed. Hatches swang open; rivets popped; bulk heads twisted; pipes burst.

 

The Star Destroyer didn't appear to have moved much in the sky. It was still coming in low on the horizon, aiming to pass over him and strafe him from above. He shifted his hand a second time, but instead of changing its course he mistakenly gave it a slight tumble. He needed to apply the Force the right way for this to work, taking the growing forces of friction and the shifting of its center of gravity into account. A spinning Star Destroyer would do more damage than one burying itself nose-first into the cannon and its superstructure. Damage was good, when it came to destroying the Emperor's handiwork, but too much damage could destroy him and perhaps the Rogue Shadow as well under a deadly rain of molten shrapnel.

 

Bring it down in one piece, he told himself. Bring it down hard.

 

The ship growled and squealed in metal torment. He was getting the hang of it; he could see how its course was slowly shifting. As wide across as his outstretched hand now, it was hitting the atmosphere at a steeper angle than he had intended, burning bright red and already gouting a trail of black smoke and sparkling debris. He became aware of a sound communicated through his feet: a rumbling much deeper and more sustained than the pounding of the cannon, which had fallen silent after the firing of the third projectile. The Star Destroyer's incomplete frame was acting like a giant tube, and the atmosphere was resonating inside. His whole body sang with it.

 

More. The Star Destroyer was really picking up speed now. The thickening atmosphere had a slight braking effect, but nothing could prevent the inevitable. It was going to hit soon. A wild exodus of droids ran past him, fleeing the crash site. The TIE fighters it had launched raced ahead of the chaotic atmospheric waves it generated. He ignored them and concentrated on shifting ground zero as close to the cannon as he could.

 

Sparks danced in front of his eyes. The edges of his vision faded to black. Light and dark swirls spun around him, wraithlike. He felt momentarily faint and wondered if it was possible to dissolve into the Force. He was a speck caught in the updraft over a forest fire yet somehow he had the audacity to try to command the fire to do his will.

 

Who did he think he was?

 

A sudden panic almost made him lose control. The Star Destroyer, now a burning, shrieking meteor, filled his entire forward vision. The hull was peeling away in fiery, golden strips, each one weighing hundreds of tons, exposing the darker skeleton beneath. It looked like a death's-head, a ghastly mask not dissimilar to hi Master's, but one molten like lava. This could well be the end of everything, he thought distantly. Of him, of his plans, of his feelings for Juno, and of the boy called Galen who had lost a father a long time ago and whose grief had already been effectively erased

 

But his name had survived, and names had power. The apprentice clutched at it with desperation, needing to regain control of the Star Destroyer lest it tear itself apart and disperse the impact. He needed to find his focus again, to ignore the feeling of dissolution eating at the edges of his self, and to tip the balance of power back toward him.

 

The Star Destroyer's catastrophic reentry made the world shake. There was no time to try again. For Juno, then.

 

He gritted his teeth and snarled at the sky. The dead weight the Star Destroyer shifted one last time, changing its angle of descent just enough to hang together those last few hundred meters, but not enough to risk bouncing. Only seconds remained before it hit and it was still getting bigger. It was impossible that the sky could contain so much metal!

 

Abandoning his control over the ship, knowing there was nothing now that he could do to alter its course, the apprentice staggered backward, dazed. The Force fled from him, leaving him wrung out and drained. With a sound like the world ending, the Star Destroyer completed its first and final journey. It hit the cannon, exactly as it was supposed to, and the sky turned white. The ground buckled beneath the apprentice's feet. He pinwheeled, unable to find his balance, as a tsunami of junk and waste rose up ahead of him and blotted out the sun.

I am not confident that Revan is capable of this. I highly doubt he is more powerful. And if even in a state of Oneness Marek was unable to overcome the Emperor's power, without that advantage Revan stands little chance, and even with it he would still fail. The best Revan could hope for in such a situation would be a quick death.

What does this feat have to do with this debate? This is a feat of full concentration on part of Marek and not relevant for his combative abilities.

However, as per official stats of both characters, Revan have superior connectivity with the Force between the two. Revan have the rank of 8 while Galen have the rank of 6 in this respect. I am sure that Revan have lot more in him than what has been revealed about him in written literature.

And then, finally, we have lightsaber ability. Darth Sidious was a Sith Swordsmaster, a master of all seven lightsaber forms and all known stances. We can on the other hand, only guess at what Revan was capable of. He may have mastered all seven forms, but evidently he did not bring it to the level that Darth Sidious did.

 

Because Sidious channeled all his immense energy into his saber style, he was incredibly fast and incredibly strong. And whereas Revan may have been able to outmaneuver some Imperial Guards, bolstered by the will of the Emperor or not they don't even begin to compare to Sidious' speed and strength. To provide examples:

Maul parried the blow and reversed, coming at Sidious from the opposite side. But Sidious had already vanished, leaving Maul to lunge at the empty air. As Maul lost his balance, his body fell against the cave's wall.

Sidious said from behind Maul, "You are that pathetic. You are weak. Not worthy of being a Sith Lord. I have misjudged you."

 

Maul's anger burned to rage. He spun fast and swung his lightsaber again, but again he failed to strike Sidious, who moved faster than he could follow.

 

Sidious raised his saber and flew at Maul, who parried desperately, his mechanical legs whirring as he sought to counter his former Master’s blows. Sidious’s sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.

 

Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor.

 

A fountain of amethyst energy burst from Mace Windu's fist. "Don't try to resist."

The song of his blade was echoed by green fire from the hands of Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin. Kolar and Tiin closed on Palpatine, blocking the path to the door. Shadows dripped and oozed color, weaving and coiling up office walls slipping over chairs, spreading along the floor.

"Resist? How could I possibly resist?" Still seated at the desk Palpatine shook an empty fist helplessly, the perfect image of a tired, frightened old man. "This is murder, you Jedi traitors! How can I be any threat to you?"

He turned desperately to Saesee Tiin. "Master Tiin—you're the telepath. What am I thinking right now?" Tiin frowned and cocked his head. His blade dipped. A smear of red-flashing darkness hurtled from behind the desk. Saesee Tiin's head bounced when it hit the floor. Smoke curled from the neck, and from the twin stumps of the horns, severed just below the chin.

Kit Fisto gasped, "Saesee!"

The headless corpse, still standing, twisted as its knees buckled, and a thin sigh escaped from its trachea as it folded to the floor.

"It doesn't..." Agen Kolar swayed. His emerald blade shrank away, and the handgrip tumbled from his opening fingers. A small, neat hole in the middle of his forehead leaked smoke, showing light from the back of his head. "...hurt..." He pitched forward onto his face, and lay still.

 

The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.

Furthermore after immediately entering a new clone body he easily overwhelmed Luke Skywalker (who had himself become extremely powerful) simply through overpowering strength, despite Luke being a master of Djem So.

Here is canonical description of Vitiate's Imperial Guard:

The ultimate non-Force sensitive fighters in the Empire serve the Emperor and the Emperor alone. Although most citizens know them as protectors of the Sith Academy on Korriban and the sanctum of the Citadel on Dromund Kaas, the guardsmen’s mandate takes them wherever the Emperor requires. Even the Dark Council has neither control nor oversight of the guard’s activities. Clad in blood-red robes and armor, Imperial Guardsmen serve for life. Chosen for duty and initiated through deadly tests and traditions, those too old for active duty become instructors for the next generation until their skills deteriorate to the point where they are inevitably slain by a new recruit during training. Fanatic in loyalty and unmatched in martial skill, even a lone Imperial Guard is a formidable opponent capable of standing toe-to-toe with a Jedi… or a Sith, should the occasion arise.

&

I never claimed that these guards are on Sidious's level but they are formidable opponents for Jedi and Sith nonetheless and have killed many. Labeling these guards as "some guards" is an insult to them.

Maybe, Sith Emperor have heavily boosted the capabilities of his Imperial Guard since it is a component of his personal powerbase and he wouldn't use "some guards" for this purpose.

The fact that Revan was able to dispatch an Imperial Guard individual (empowered by Sith Emperor) in a span of few steps, is indication of his remarkable combat prowess with a lightsaber; he is far above an average Jedi in these matters and so is Sidious.

Does Revan really have the strength of Luke Skywalker? I beg to differ. And has anyone Revan fasted ever moved even close to the speed of Sidious? No. There is no evidence to suggest that Revan will be able to keep up with Sidious' incredibly strong and incredibly fast swordplay which he himself is renowned for and has refined.

 

It is far more likely that Sidious will simply move to fast and strike to strongly, even Windu was caught of guard by his speed and even Luke Skywalker was taken out by his powerful strength. And that's without even considering Force Abilities, one blast of lightning and Revan could lose his lightsaber, and if he tries to catch it, Sidious will set him on fire.

 

Ultimately, I stand my assertion that in any engagement, Revan would be quickly defeated by Sidious. Who is just as, if not more, dominating and overwhelmingly powerful as the Sith Emperor who Revan fell easily at the hands of.

Revan have extraordinary precognitive abilities by Jedi standards, appreciated by Echani as well in this respect.

Revan is fast, agile and martial enough to cut a swath through armies of Sith and Mandalorians or destroy whole armies:

"Each [Revan and the Foundry] could dominate worlds...The Emperor sought to pry the Foundry's location from the Jedi's mind. But for centuries he resisted."

"As a Jedi, Revan was a warrior who slaughtered armies. As a Sith, Revan was a teacher who trained a thousand dark apprentices."

"Though there was immense power in the Shan bloodline, there is also a streak of unorthodoxy."

"In battle after battle, Revan had led the Jedi and Republic forces to victory. Realizing defeat was inevitable, Mandalore the Ultimate had challenge Revan to since combat, and Revan had accepted. Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order's most powerful champion."

Revan cut a swath through forces of Mandalorians and Sith during battles, he subdued Darth Malak in the heart of the Star Forge. Even Plagueis gave lectures to Sidious about capabilities of Revan and Malak.

It shall be kept in mind that the capability to slaughter an army of well-armed individuals is not a matter of joke for even Force-users. This is incredibly difficult feat for even the mightiest of the Force-users.

In addition, Revan, even in his worst condition, was able to fight an Imperial Strike Team (of galaxy's most dangerous warriors) and not get struck down.

Revan's combat prowess is perhaps not adequately elaborated in written literature but he is no chump when it comes to lightsaber combat.

Here is the description of Revan's encounter with an Imperial Guard individual (empowered by Sith Emperor):

One of the guards battling Meetra broke off and tried to cut Revan off. The Jedi gathered himself and leapt high in the air, tucking his knees in tight to somersault over his opponent. The guard reacted to the unexpected move a fraction too slowly, his electrostaff slicing through the air above his head and missing Revan by only a few centimeters.

Revan landed on the ground and wheeled around to face the other man. He thrust out with the Force, the impact hitting the soldier square in the chest. Instead of sending him flying, it only staggered him back half a step—this close to the Emperor they were sworn to protect, the guards were able to draw on his power to protect themselves.

Still, the slight stumble gave Revan enough time to draw his lightsaber and go on the offensive. He came in with a high, overhand chop—an obvious feint meant to draw the defenses of his opponent upward, leaving his legs exposed to a quick follow-up strike.

The guard recognized the familiar ploy, countering it by parrying the overhand chop then quickly dropping his blade low to intercept the inevitable slash at his legs. Only Revan didn’t go for his legs. Anticipating that his opponent’s defenses would go low, he kept his blade up high, allowing him to end the battle with a horizontal cut across the man’s suddenly exposed throat. (From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

It shall be kept in mind that these guards are good enough to slay Jedi and Sith in combat, however, Revan is among the strongest Jedi of the mythos. He not just physically outpaced a swing aimed to cut him down with his great speed but easily anticipated the dueling moves of such a martial opponent and cut him down in just 2 moves. Revan can make lot of difference by being highly acrobatic and using Force powers during martial confrontations; he is unpredictable and his actions are precise.

In the nutshell, Revan is far stronger and effective duelist then the likes of Tinn, Kolar, Fisto and Oppress.

Geez talk about beating a dead horse to life then beating him back to death...

Wasn't it already established that any prequel trilogy jedi/sith would wipe the floor with old republic era jedi/sith?

Also, it never ceases to amaze me how a versus topic between two characters will be completely derailed by another or sometimes two completely different characters.

Also, didn't Revan almost get his face melted off by Vitiate?

Geez talk about beating a dead horse to life then beating him back to death...

 

Wasn't it already established that any prequel trilogy jedi/sith would wipe the floor with old republic era jedi/sith?

Also, it never ceases to amaze me how a versus topic between two characters will be completely derailed by another or sometimes two completely different characters.

 

Also, didn't Revan almost get his face melted off by Vitiate?

As a whole yeah, individual pairings? Could be debateable, depending who is put up with who and if each character has the feats to put them on par with the other. (But some matches would still be one sided)

Also yes for Revan and his face.

You might want to provide a quote for that, Nyriss never reduced anyone but herself to ashes, and there were certainly exceptional circumstances involved there. Regardless, in the end if we really believe that Dooku is less powerful than Nyriss and Yoda had a harder time blocking Dooku's lightining that Revan did Nyriss then we can only include that Revan is considerably more powerful than Yoda. Yet Yoda has been confirmed by canon sources to be the most powerful Jedi to have ever lived up until the point, so that would conflict with Star Wars mythos.

See my previous elaboration in this aspect.

1. The fact that Nyriss was capable of reducing herself to ash with her own Sith lightning, is indicative enough of the assessment that she could reduce other powerful Force-users to ash with the same power. She was about to reduce both Scourge and Meetra to ash with her signature lightning but was stopped by Revan. This is a plot-device related development because destruction of Scourge and Meetra at the hands of Nyriss would have conflicted with pre-established link of these characters with the game so author came up with a solution by using Revan.

2. Nyriss could be above Dooku since she was able to throw Scourge across the room without even a gesture and tanked his telekinetic blast (Keep in mind that Scourge is not some chump himself). In addition, the power of her lightning is another indication. Furthermore, she subdued the duo of Scourge and Meetra in a duel, this is extraordinary display of power.

3. Yoda may have that accolade but he isn't going to be far above the likes of Revan in raw power aspect, rather Revan have extraordinary connectivity with the Force as well and could be 99% of Yoda as a guess. However, raw power alone is not a determinant! Proficiency in the matters of Tutaminis is another determinant and Revan seemingly have superior command of Tutaminis then any Jedi.

4. As pointed out by me earlier, effectiveness of Sith lightning is dependent upon multiple factors and not just raw power alone.

Somethings got to budge here.

Moral of the story: black & white comparison of things are misleading.

The Sith Emperor was able to generate exceptionally powerful Force lightning, unleashing storms of dark side energy on his opponents which could instantly incapacitate powerful Jedi. He was also able to charge incredibly powerful blasts of energy which even the most powerful of Jedi were unable to deflect.

As pointed out by me earlier:

Try to comprehend this:

 

Nyriss's normal lightning (capable of utterly destroying people) <<<<<< Nyriss's signature lightning (capable of utterly destroying even powerful Force-users) < Vitiate's normal lightning <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Vitiate's signature lightning (purest expression of the dark side lethal enough to utterly destroy even the most powerful Jedi).

---

Sidious was easily capable of incinerating powerful Force sensitives with his lightning which he did so to several dark side prophets.

We don't know how powerful are those dark prophets or even qualify for powerful label.

Capability to incinerate individuals as strong as Scourge and Meetra or even better? Now this is something to boast about.

His lightning was also capable of rendering Force users unconscious, it was also powerful enough to stun Master Yoda and almost overload his Force absorption. He was also capable of overwhelming Luke Skywalkers attempts at Force deflection. Sidious’ application of Sith lightning also came in far more precise and grand displays, once slaughtering an entire legion - that’s over 8,000 men - of stormtroopers with lightning while leaving his Royal Guards intermingled amongst them unharmed.

Nobody is doubting the potency of Sidious's lightning and his capability to produce storms with them. However. Nyriss is comparably potent in this respect and I am being generous here.

On top of this Darth Sidious mastered the most potent application of Sith Lightning, the dark side and possibly the most destructive Force power known. The Force Storm. A gross extrapolation of the Force maelstrom the power allows the wielder to create vast storms of destructive Force energy capable of rending the very fabric of space and creating hyperspace wormholes. Sidious was capable of controlling these storms and dispatched multiple storms across the galaxy to ravage the surfaces of planets and tear entire fleets apart without any visible effort or concentration in an amazing display of raw Force power.

I know that Sith lightning is involved in creation of Force Storm Wormhole but this power have lot more to it. Also, Emperor Vitiate have demonstrated the capability to engulf entire planet with storms of lightning to alter its climatic conditions, combine this with his extraordinary proficiency in Sith Sorcery and you have got a Nathema.

If Emperor Vitiate learns the secret of Force Storm Wormhole, god have mercy on poor Jedi.

In terms of Force Lightning, Darth Sidious again receives a considerable edge. He simply surpasses the Sith Emperor in every feasible way. He has incapacitated and killed far more powerful Force users with lightning; he has generated far larger Force storms and has dispatched his dark side energies across a far greater radius. Now one may argue that this is unfair, as the Sith Emperor has never been in a position where he would need to kill a Force user or conjure a Force Storm. However I would retort to the first that Tol Braga and the Hero of Tython were capable of resisting the Emperor’s lightning at first and he was forced to ramp up the intensity considerably. Yet with a single blast Sidious was capable of reducing three dark side prophets to ash, incapacitating Leia (after being trained as a Jedi) and seriously wounding Empatojayos Brand who himself was a highly powerful Jedi. One would think therefore that if the Sith Emperor’s lightning truly was more potent, he would have easily devastated at least Tol Braga with what was an even more intense variant of the simple blast of lightning that Darth Sidious used.

Beni, this is absolutely and utterly wrong.

Emperor Vitiate did not intend to destroy the Jedi Strike Team that came to confront him, he decided to use them as his pawns instead. The only time he decided to get lethal in this respect, it was game over for Revan but the poor Jedi was saved by T3-M4. Do not forget that Emperor Vitiate have purged whole Councils before, when he decides to go ballistic, it is game over for most at that moment.

Also;

- I don't get the claims of Empatojayos Brand as being a highly powerful Jedi? What have he done?

- Incapacitating Leia is supposed to impress me as well?

- And those Dark Prophets hold a candle to someone as powerful as Nyriss?

Yes, Sidious is very capable with Sith lightning but so are servants of Emperor Vitiate, let alone him; Exal Kressh inflicted great deal of damage to the structures with her Sith lightning, even disintegrated the lightsaber of Thanaton after overloading his defenses. Thanaton himself is incredibly potent with Sith lightning, thanks to his great command of Sith Sorcery. Nyriss could reduce even the likes of herself to ash with Sith lightning, let alone Scourge and Meetra. Malgus destroyed a "powerhouse" of a Jedi with his Sith lightning after overloading his Jar Kai oriented defenses, he have destroyed scores of other Jedi with his Sith lightning, heck, when he became angry, he schooled even the mighty Aryn Leener with his Sith lightning. Think again and again.

Altogether I'd avoid making such bold claims without sufficient evidence to support them. Especially given that the Sith Emperor's demonstrations of Sith Lightning are both rare and have been replicated by several others.

 

Neither are you preaching to the choir here. You must have realised that by now.

Their are no bold claims on my part, Beni.

Everything is precise and clear in this post.

Revan has extraordinary connectivity with the Force as well and could be 99% of Yoda as a guess.

Your use of Meetra is far off-ball, you might not like it but canonical evidence points to the fact that any pure light side user is weakened severely on Dromund Kaas, so Nyriss being able to over-come her and Scourge is nowhere near as impressive as you make it out to be.

I accept that practitioners of the light side may not be at the top of their game in places strong in the dark side but their coping aspects vary depending upon their talents and experiences. Meetra defeated Darth Traya on Malachor V and 2 Imperial Guards on Dromund Kaas which is very impressive display of combat prowess on her part. I personally feel that Meetra's dueling abilities are vastly underestimated, she seems to be an EXPERT swordsman.

Meetra may not be at the top of the game on Dromund Kaas, like maybe 10 - 20% down but she wasn't that much ineffective as some Jedi in the future became upon visiting this world; those Jedi don't share Meetra's experiences.

And Scourge is a practitioner of the dark side.

Also, any shortcoming on part of Meetra was compensated by presence of Scourge, if this helps.

Just going to let that sink in.

It is a guess, I don't have stats of Yoda to check where he stands in comparison to Revan. You may not need to take it at face value.

However, Revan's tanking abilities positively reflect on his immense raw power on the whole.

I accept that practitioners of the light side may not be at the top of their game in places strong in the dark side but their coping aspects vary depending upon their talents and experiences. Meetra defeated Darth Traya on Malachor V and 2 Imperial Guards on Dromund Kaas which is very impressive display of combat prowess on her part. I personally feel that Meetra's dueling abilities are vastly underestimated, she seems to be an EXPERT swordsman.

 

Meetra may not be at the top of the game on Dromund Kaas, like maybe 10 - 20% down but she wasn't that much ineffective as some Jedi in the future became upon visiting this world; those Jedi don't share Meetra's .

Malachor V was vastly different from Dromund Kaas, it was a Wound in the Force and the only explanation we have for why Meetra wasn't corrupted or driven insane by merely walking on the planet as all other Force Users were and instead was only gravely ill was the simple fact that she herself was a Wound in the Force.

Now something to point out here is that it is stated in the canon that she completed her training on Dantooine in two months prior to the destruction of Malachor V and completely healed her connection to the Force, removing the Wound within her, this is stated as fact and only makes sense given that no mention of her wound is made during the Revan novel.

Now without that wound she would clearly be far more susceptible to the effects of a Dark Side Nexus.

Also we MUST take into consideration that Meetra has been canonically stated to have a wide variety of extremely powerful Force abilities, which was gained from her Force Enlightenment, which is not merely game mechanics as the KotOR CG confirms that she achieved this ability, which is described as "Unlocking and harnessing fully the Light Side of the Force" and the KotOR CG also states she fully mastered the Light Side beyond anyone else of her time, her peak force power was Sever Force which she was naturally gifted in.

These are all canonically well within her power, but we see none of these extremely powerful abilities in the Revan novel, she indeed inexplicably uses her lightsaber far more.

Now the only guess we can make is that Dromund Kaas severely weakened her as it did all other Light Siders that travelled the planet, which is why she was forced to rely upon her lightsaber abilities and not use her extremely gifted abilities in the Light Side of the Force.

Simply put Meetra Surik after the severe effects of Nathema which she may or may not have recovered fully from(I would guess not considering that these places evidently hurt Light Siders far more than Dark Siders) and telling T3 she was okay doesn't definitively mean she was fully recovered from her near death experience.

Combine this with travelling to a place covered in a miasma of Dark Side energy that has proved extremely detrimental to other light siders that have also travelled to the same planet and you start to get a picture that Meetra was nowhere near peak performance and her need to directly meditate instead of using Moving Meditation which is one of her many abilities is evidence that she clearly could not centre herself on the planet.

1. I'm not saying that Plagueis is the Sith Emperor's equal, but that he can contend with him in combat. He doesn't have to avoid or fear the Emperor's attacks, he can take them head on. Can he overwhelm the Sith Emperor in a pure contest of strength? No. But I feel in that particular thread there was no need to go into any level of depth about how Plagueis could simply evade the Sith Emperor's attacks, when in reality he could have deflected many of them - and responded in kind in a more than potent way. Which is why I feel you are going off tangent, immortality and midichlorian manipulation are not very relevant to a combat situation, they are not offense capabilities.

Plagueis will put up some fight but will go down. Sith Emperor can exert lot of telepathic pressure on Plagueis to dampen his senses or even break him, and his powers are too much for Plagueis to cope with for long. Sith Emperor (easily) defeated 4 powerful Jedi (each among the most powerful Jedi of the Order) in single combat with his sheer Force abilities under fair circumstances and Plagueis isn't this much capable.

While he accepted that he and Plagueis were more than equal to the most powerful of the Jedi Order, he understood that they were no match for their combined strength—the Sith imperative notwithstanding. (From Star Wars: Darth Plagueis)

Plagueis might be a match for a lone powerful Jedi but 4 put together? No.

2. Dismissing the weather effect so Naboo is to dismiss that Star Wars is a fictional universe written by writers. Do not treat these characters as real, they are not. Are you familiar with Chekhov's Gun? Its a rule that states that if something serves no purpose to the story, it should not be there. Clearly the writers intentions here were to display that Plagueis had the power to effect the weather of a planet merely by his presence, if they merely intended it to be a coincidence, then it is an unnecessary feature, and would not have been mentioned. And then of course we have to remember that when he died, it caused a tremor in the Force.

I am not sure if contributors to the lore of Star Wars are highly focused on using logic to explain things or events and not use hyperboles, their is a lot of ridiculous material in the mythos to be honest.

Issue with this description is that it offers a hyperbolic and tricky picture of an event. Plagueis himself admitted that following are not his specialties:

Still in safekeeping on Aborah were texts and holocrons that recounted the deeds and abilities of Sith Masters who, so it was said and written, had been able to summon wind or rain or fracture the skies with conjured lightning. In their own words or those of their disciples, a few Dark Lords claimed to have had the ability to fly, become invisible, or transport themselves through space and time. But Plagueis had never succeeded in duplicating any of those phenomena. (From Star Wars: Darth Plagueis)

So if he was not able to alter the environment with his abilities so howcome he would have altered the environment of Naboo with his mere presence? It makes no sense.

OP have made a mistake in his work about Plagueis in this case. That event could be a manifestation of the Force itself to warn the inhabitants of Naboo about impending darkness or something. The Force works in mysterious ways, remember?

There is also the dark side nexus Plagueis created on Aborah:

A standard month after the events on Coruscant, Plagueis summoned Sidious to Muunilinst. Sidious had visited the High Port skyhook but had never been invited downside, and now he found himself soaring over one of the planet’s unspoiled blue oceans in a stylish airspeeder piloted by two Sun Guards. As the speeder approached Aborah, he settled deeply into the Force and was rewarded with a vision of the mountain island as a transcendent vortex of dark energy unlike anything he had ever experienced. It was something he would have expected to encounter only on Korriban or some other Sith world.

Very impressive. Fair enough in this case.

Which itself demonstrates that power is equally attainable within the sphere of the "sciences" as well as sorcery - and I fully expect they were not so far apart as you might like to believe. Plagueis was simply rationalizing the Force with his studies. Plagueis is not just poking cells in a petri dish I assure you.

Don't get me wrong, wonders can be achieved with "sciences" as well, however sciences are limited in their scope and coverage of things in comparison to Sith Sorcery which is a pathway towards greater possibilities. Its like the difference between natural and supernatural.

3. I'm not referring to that ritual between Sidious and Plagueis, I'm talking about Plagueis' personal efforts to create and end life. Specifically when he killed then resurrected Venamis several times. This would have involved influencing midichlorians and would have demanded exceptional ability in the aspect of Control, which revolves around manipulating the body and the Force. Plagueis achieved arguably unparalleled mastery in this field. Or at least, was one of the most exceptional wielders of this aspect of the Force. Nor would I so readily dismiss that Plagueis did not and could not achieve "immortality" (an arbitrary substitution not recognized in Star Wars mythos for prolonged life/and or increased affinity with the Force.) Consider the following:

I begin with experiments on scurries and other small creatures. I used my will, amplified through my body’s own midi-chlorians, to override the lesser concentrated midi-chlorian voices in the test subjects. This proved more challenging than I predicted. Because midi-chlorians are linked by a universal mind, the ones in my own cells seemed to resist this imposition upon their fellows. But eventually I succeeded, first with small creatures, then with slaves purchased from the Hutts. I forced the midi-chlorians to override their natural life cycles. What I discovered is that these midi-chlorians would not die. Instead, they drew upon sustaining Force energy, which acted on a microscopic level to halt tissue decay in their host, putting an end to aging and disease.

Manipulating midichlorians would have indeed required considerably strength in the Force, as it involves physically grappling with the Force, now if mere animals lacking in Force sensitivity required a degree of effort from a powerful practitioner of the Force one can only imagine the effort it would take to resurrect several times a Force user of considerably caliber, very considerably given that Tenebrous considered him a possible replacement.

 

Then we have the following:

Seen through the Force, he was a nuclear oval of mottled light, a rotating orb of terrifying energy. If the Maladian attack had weakened him physically, it had also helped to shape his etheric body into a vessel sufficiently strong to contain the full power of the dark side. Determined never again to be caught off guard, he had trained himself to go without sleep, and had devoted two standard decades to day-and-night experimentation with midi-chlorian manipulation and attempts to wrest a few last secrets from the Force, so that he—and presumably his human apprentice—might live forever. His inward turn had enabled him to master the equally powerful energies of order and disorder, creation and entropy, life and death.

I can assure you I overhype nothing, Plagueis was Sidious' equal and even when Sidious decided to betray him its unclear whether Sidious had at that point grown strong, given that he chose to drug him first. The means by which Plagueis chose to study the Force granted him immense abouts of power. Some of his abilities included:

 

- The power to create living organisms.

- The power to bring others back from the dead.

- The power to end the lives of others in an instant.

- Render Force resistant creatures non-resistant.

- Heal injuries

This is good effort on your part to elaborate the capabilities of Plagueis but much of these are esoteric talents, performed in laboratory settings. Their are examples of ancients excelling in these areas as well; the ruler of the Sith species whom Ajunta Pall executed, replaced his heart with a ruby containing spirits of all of his victims! Imagine...

Plagueis' talents should be distinguished on the basis of what are his actual Alter abilities and what are his Alchemy related or scientific talents. Of-course, usage of Force is involved in all of these works and actions.

And while yes, Plagueis did indeed need Sidious' assistance to perform their most potent ritual. Shifting the very balance of the Force, something the Sith Emperor has failed to achieve, demonstrates just how much power can be attained solely from this field of study. Indeed the Sith Emperor never achieved the ability to create life, or extinguish it in such a manner. In this field the Sith Emperor is well and truly surpassed.

I am not sure if Sith Emperor ever attempted to imbalance the Force, he was rather interested in eating the Force.

Sith Emperor was expert in all areas of dark side actually, he have created new life-forms, transformed some of his minions to virtually immortal beings with his experiments and more importantly, he transformed himself in to an immortal being, prevented decay of his original body and could perform actions that Plagueis could not.

This seems to be a unique showing from Plagueis though:

However, drawback of resurrecting a dead individual was that he would be useless still because his organs would eventually give-up.

However, this was the ultimate objective of Plagueis:

Sith Emperor ticks the checkbox of the ultimate objective of Plagueis, he lived for centuries and prolonged the life of some of his minions in similar ways. However, a time came when Sith Emperor no longer needed to rely on biological shackles for existence.

How could anyone say that Nyriss is superior to Dooku?

Forget that, how can anybody say that Revan is nearly as powerful as Yoda?! It is just absurd.

Just going to let that sink in.

See, I can't see any of his posts, It's bliss.

But good god, did you edit that or did he really say that?

Forget that, how can anybody say that Revan is nearly as powerful as Yoda?! It is just absurd.

I was going to mention that, but I noticed that Beni referred to it.