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paowee
09.10.2013 , 12:51 PM | #1
[PVE] OS/XS nerfs
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

It is interesting that so many Smugglers/Imperial Agents have taken such a liking to the 2-piece Gunslinger/Sniper PvP set bonus. Due to the DPS gain, it is understandable why this is the case, but the results of this design are unintentional. We touched a little bit on this in the Gunslinger/Sniper questions, and we can go into a bit more depth since you have specifically asked about it.

Because of how our ability damage is scored, XS Freighter Flyby/Orbital Strike puts out some of the best DPS in the game assuming all of its damage ticks hit a target and this is without the set bonus. While we do intend for XS Freighter Flyby/Orbital Strike to be an excellent choice against three or more enemy targets in an area, the single-target effectiveness of the ability is not intended to be so good, with a possible exception for the Saboteur/Engineering Gunslinger/Sniper. But the other five Smuggler/Imperial Agent specializations are not meant to be using the ability against a single target. To address this issue, we plan to make a few changes.

First, we will be lowering the effectiveness of XS Freighter Flyby/Orbital Strike by reducing some combination of its cooldown, activation time, and energy cost. Then we will rescore the damage it does. This will allow it to be used more easily and more often, but it will deal less damage per use. We will also be swapping the 2-piece and 4-piece Gunslinger/Sniper PvP set bonuses, so that the extra tick of XS Freighter Flyby/Orbital Strike damage will be tied to four pieces, and the increased range for Distraction and Quickdraw/Takedown will be tied to two pieces. These changes should combine to bring XS Freighter Flyby/Orbital Strike closer to its intended purpose: being a marvelous multi-target ability and a less than optimal single-target ability.


http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=679060
Some thoughts:
  • If BW does it correctly they want OS/XS it to be a DPS loss when used in your single target rotation (with the exception for Engi/Saboteur). It is because of this why we will not include OS/Flyby in the comprison parses below
  • No 30% DPS talent from Lethality or any of the Lethality changes they said they plan to add in the future
  • No execute ability for MM and Hybrid
  • Will PvE Snipers still farm the 4-pc PVP bonus and play the MM and Hybrid specs the same way they do now (2.0)?

EDIT: What happens when we remove Orbital Strike from our single target rotation?

5 MIN SINGLE TARGET PARSES WITHOUT Orbital Strike

Bye Bye Bye Fly Bye - youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr86zynfCqM&t=0m39s

- Orbital in the beginning of the fight only (pre-casted)
- WEARING 4-pc PVE bonus (3 ticks of OS)
- prototype nano-infused skill stim
- no armor pen debuff
- no adrenals
- NERF aims to remove OS/XS from single target rotation. BW intended for this ability to be used when multiple targets will be hit. Not for single target DPS.
- NERF should bring our single target DPS closer to other classes. In a raid setting we will still have competitive if not superior AOE DPS (especially with the ~coming Engi buffs. BW mentioned they are planning to buff Full Lethality as well). Snipers also have great utility thanks to their gimmicky diversion, best knockback/root in the game and raid wide 20% damage reduction. [COLOR="Yellow"]

MM 36/3/7
Spoiler

1. 2771 DPS 30% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419436/tim...552/0/Overview
2. 2621 DPS 32% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419436/tim...885/0/Overview
3. 2708 DPS 29% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419436/tim...226/0/Overview
4. 2740 DPS 32% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419436/tim...560/0/Overview
5. 2701 DPS 31% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419458/tim...901/0/Overview
AVG CRIT: 30%
AVG DPS (no OS): 2708 DPS
PARSE 1 (with OS): 2872 DPS 30% Crit
DPS LOSS: 164 DPS if we stop using Orbital all together
DPS LOSS even if we use Orbital on cooldown due to removal of 2-pc PVP bonus

On the other hand, results were very interesting for the Hybrid Spec

HYBRID
Spoiler

Here we have Hybrid parses, without Orbital

1. 2843 DPS 36% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419478/tim...016/0/Overview <-high crit parse
2. 2831 DPS 38% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419478/tim...355/0/Overview <-high crit parse
3. 2820 DPS 35% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419487/tim...033/0/Overview
4. 2847 DPS 36% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419501/tim...446/0/Overview
AVG CRIT: 35%
AVG DPS: 2835 DPS
DPS GAIN: 10 DPS

Here we have Hybrid parses WITH ORBITAL, but without the 2-pc PVP bonus

1: 2823 DPS 36% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419490/tim...543/0/Overview
2: 2821 DPS 38% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419496/tim...928/0/Overview
3: 2831 DPS 33% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419502/tim...970/0/Overview
AVG CRIT: 35%
AVG DPS: 2825 DPS
Rotation: includes timing TA/AP (IM/CH) wIth Orbital Strike so that I can do Cull -> OS -> SoS -> Cull without having to do the lesser dps rotation: Cull -> OS -> RS -> RS -> Cull.

Spoiler

Last but not the least,

LETHALITY
Spoiler

1. 2875 DPS 35% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419512/tim...281/0/Overview
2. 2887 DPS 35% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419518/tim...867/0/Overview
3. 2988 DPS 34% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419527/tim...276/0/Overview
4. 2981 DPS 36% crit http://www.torparse.com/a/419535/tim...929/0/Overview
AVG CRIT: 35%
AVG DPS: 2932 DPS


Summary:

MM is still up in the air. We don't know the context of BW's answer to the Scoundrel Q&A. Maybe there are changes in the MM tree but ofcourse they won't talk about that in the Scoundrel forum. My guess is that MM should still be using OS on cooldown (paired with Sniper Volley) despite any OS nerf. The alternative is just too low DPS...
MM DPS without Orbital: 2708 DPS
MM DPS with Orbital (4-pc PVE): 2872 DPS

Hybrid without Orbital looks like it does more if not the same DPS as Hybrid with Orbital but without the 2-pc PVP set bonus. Is the 2-pc PVP set bonus really this powerful? More parses from other people would be great!
HYBRID DPS without Orbital: 2835 DPS
HYBRID DPS with Orbital (4-pc PVE): 2825 AVG DPS

Before the xpac came i did notice that Lethality was doing more DPS than Hybrid if you remove Orbital Strike. Did not mind it much since ofcourse everyone was excited about the all new MM/SS and the new Engineering/Saboteur. BW was right in our QA again. Lethality IS > Hybrid but ONLY when played the way they intended it to be.
Full Lethality DPS without Orbital: 2932 DPS
Full Lethality DPS with Orbital: too tired to parse anymore lol


CONCLUSION:
Removing Orbital from the single target rotation across all specs: LETHALITY > Hybrid > Marksman
Using Orbital but without the PVP set bonus: LETHALITY > Marksman >= Hybrid
more parses from other people would be great!


Some ~math:
BEFORE
1. Nithnuro - Sniper - Marksman 36/3/7 - 3265.68
2. Evrydayimsmggln - Gunslinger - Hybrid 5/18/23 - 3238.05
4. Red'october - Gunslinger - Hybrid 5/18/23 - 3207.38
5. Alishee - Sniper - Marksman - 36/3/7 - 3192.26

ADJUSTMENTS
Spoiler
AFTER
1. Nithnuro - Sniper - Marksman 36/3/7 - 3207 DPS
2. Evrydayimsmggln - Gunslinger - Hybrid 5/18/23 - 3159 DPS
4. Red'october - Gunslinger - Hybrid 5/18/23 - 3123 DPS
5. Alishee - Sniper - Marksman - 36/3/7 - 3092 DPS


DPS LOSS from removal of 2-pc PVP set bonus (extra orbital tick)
1. 413 - 355 = 58 DPS
2. 350 - 271 = 79 DPS
4. 337 - 253 = 84 DPS
5. 398 - 298 = 100 DPS
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